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 Googly Goo
Posts: 7053
  
| Frodo - 2015-07-30 11:32 AM Herbie - 2015-07-30 11:00 AM I don't understand why our society is so concerned over something that happened in another country that is obviously the fault of the guides who issued the hunt. My boss goes on big hunts like this all the time. He flies in, hunts, and flies out. It's the job of the guide to find the animal and say yay or nay. What kills me is we have people raising hundreds of thousands of dollars for this lion situation. What will that money go toward??? All the while the victims and their families of the incident in Chattanooga gun unnoticed. How is it that the lion is more important than our heroes being slaughtered on our home soil? What about the guy who shot up the movie theatre last week? What about the families of those victims? One day reporting on this type stuff that is happening RIGHT HERE, and yet people are outraged over a lion that was shot by a wealthy American on foreign soil, and was guided by locals who should know what is ok to shoot and what is not. Our priorities are so screwed up in this country that it's truly frightening. Wow, if you were a train, you would have derailed about five times there.
Edited by TXBO 2015-07-30 3:41 PM
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 Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
 
| rodeomom3 - 2015-07-30 2:32 PM
cyount2009 - 2015-07-30 1:47 PM stayceem - 2015-07-30 1:02 PM The problem that I have with this issue is that most opposed, seem to be opposed to "game hunting" in general. This happens everywhere, everyday ... I've never seen anyone care so much, this guy just happened to make the news. I met a guy in Texas who owns a game farm. He has a Zebra, giraffe and many other exotic animals. If you have the cash, you can shoot the animal. He is the guide for his property and you pick what you want and he helps you get the kill. I dont agree with "game killing" however, I dont think this one individual needs to be persecuted alone. From what I have read, this lion was involved in research (which could be just as cruel depending on what kinda research). The guide is supposed to be responsible for the "paying customer." Whether or not the dentist knew, will never be fully known. And using a fishing without a license and the other illegal bear charge as leverage is ridiculous IMO. I see people everyday with these types of charges... some of them made distasteful decisions but a lot of them are pretty dumb cases with many circumstances most never know. I dont understand why the carcas was left and I dont agree with that. I also dont agree with lurying an animal out but this is common in "game killing." Again this is an issue with "game hunting" and this guy isnt the first nor will be the last to use these tactics. The same could be said for the scents and calls people use for deer and duck hunting. I also agree that we have much bigger issues we could be focusing on, donating to, etc. I have to disagree here. There are far more variables to using bottled scents and calls then there are to tying a carcass to a jeep to try to lure out a human/vehicle desensitized scavenging predator.
I am not defending the activist at this point or the poacher (in my mind, once a poacher, always a poacher and should be labeled as such ) but I can say given what facts are being released I am leaning toward the activists side.
We had the same situation occur with a bear here a few years ago. The bear frequented an upper class neighborhood for several years. They too had given this bear a name, I believe it was Arthur? A hunter, legal and legitimate, killed the bear in season, in zone, outside of the no hunting area, without bating, with a bow and the local media and activists went nuts. This hunter got lucky and caught this bear with it's pants down. I see nothing wrong when wildlife, regardless of what name you give it or where it spends the majority of it's time, is legally taken. What I do have an issue with is poachers either foreign or domestic.
The media has a tendency to label poachers as hunters which in turns labels legitimate and legal hunters as terrible law breaking and heartless villains to the rest of the world.
And maybe you know, because I dont but if they didnt know who this lion was (which they're or at least the dentist is claiming)... how would they know it is desensatized to vehicles? People use scents and calls in attempts to bring said animal to a location or area dont they?
I am fully open to learning more but based on the facts that I have seen (which isnt a ton.. ive read a few articles), I think the public is overreacting. | |
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 Expert
Posts: 4121
Location: SE Louisiana | Herbie - 2015-07-30 11:00 AM
I don't understand why our society is so concerned over something that happened in another country that is obviously the fault of the guides who issued the hunt.  My boss goes on big hunts like this all the time. He flies in, hunts, and flies out. It's the job of the guide to find the animal and say yay or nay. What kills me is we have people raising hundreds of thousands of dollars for this lion situation. What will that money go toward??? All the while the victims and their families of the incident in Chattanooga gun unnoticed.  How is it that the lion is more important than our heroes being slaughtered on our home soil? What about the guy who shot up the movie theatre last week?  What about the families of those victims? One day reporting on this type stuff that is happening RIGHT HERE, and yet people are outraged over a lion that was shot by a wealthy American on foreign soil, and was guided by locals who should know what is ok to shoot and what is not. Our priorities are so screwed up in this country that it's truly frightening. Â
You are comparing apples to oranges here.. Which is to say you are comparing two thing not related. Let me do the same to you.
You and a whole bunch of other people here were all up in arms when Credit Card was stolen and butchered. Yet those abortions were still going on...
Cecil was just as much a national icon there as American Pharoah is here...
Can you imagine if someone were to poach American Pharoah out of his pasture? Would you be squawking about that or would you be objecting this news event was getting more attention than abortion?
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Posts: 120
| komet. - 2015-07-30 4:15 PM
Herbie - 2015-07-30 11:00 AM
I don't understand why our society is so concerned over something that happened in another country that is obviously the fault of the guides who issued the hunt.  My boss goes on big hunts like this all the time. He flies in, hunts, and flies out. It's the job of the guide to find the animal and say yay or nay. What kills me is we have people raising hundreds of thousands of dollars for this lion situation. What will that money go toward??? All the while the victims and their families of the incident in Chattanooga gun unnoticed.  How is it that the lion is more important than our heroes being slaughtered on our home soil? What about the guy who shot up the movie theatre last week?  What about the families of those victims? One day reporting on this type stuff that is happening RIGHT HERE, and yet people are outraged over a lion that was shot by a wealthy American on foreign soil, and was guided by locals who should know what is ok to shoot and what is not. Our priorities are so screwed up in this country that it's truly frightening. Â
You are comparing apples to oranges here.. Which is to say you are comparing two thing not related. Let me do the same to you.
You and a whole bunch of other people here were all up in arms when Credit Card was stolen and butchered. Yet those abortions were still going on...
Cecil was just as much a national icon there as American Pharoah is here...
Can you imagine if someone were to poach American Pharoah out of his pasture? Would you be squawking about that or would you be objecting this news event was getting more attention than abortion?
I don't think this was comparing apples to oranges at all.....every word spoken was the truth. If the other countries put as much weight into American Pharoah being hunted and killed as we are into Cecil, then you might have an argument. I think you missed the point of this post completely. The point being made is that Cecil the lion (while very sad and unjust) is receiving far more attention and concern and outrage than the 5 soldiers we lost a couple weeks ago......far more concern and outrage than the evidence of babies being taken apart piece by piece. The outrage is misguided. Don't get me wrong, I was incredibly saddened to hear of Cecil's demise........I just wish people would put this much energy into the problems we face everyday in America. | |
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Googly Goo
Posts: 7053
| komet. - 2015-07-30 4:15 PM Herbie - 2015-07-30 11:00 AM I don't understand why our society is so concerned over something that happened in another country that is obviously the fault of the guides who issued the hunt. My boss goes on big hunts like this all the time. He flies in, hunts, and flies out. It's the job of the guide to find the animal and say yay or nay. What kills me is we have people raising hundreds of thousands of dollars for this lion situation. What will that money go toward??? All the while the victims and their families of the incident in Chattanooga gun unnoticed. How is it that the lion is more important than our heroes being slaughtered on our home soil? What about the guy who shot up the movie theatre last week? What about the families of those victims? One day reporting on this type stuff that is happening RIGHT HERE, and yet people are outraged over a lion that was shot by a wealthy American on foreign soil, and was guided by locals who should know what is ok to shoot and what is not. Our priorities are so screwed up in this country that it's truly frightening. You are comparing apples to oranges here.. Which is to say you are comparing two thing not related. Let me do the same to you. You and a whole bunch of other people here were all up in arms when Credit Card was stolen and butchered. Yet those abortions were still going on... Cecil was just as much a national icon there as American Pharoah is here... Can you imagine if someone were to poach American Pharoah out of his pasture? Would you be squawking about that or would you be objecting this news event was getting more attention than abortion?
If you told me they were setting Credit Card's killer free in return for locking up these human butchers, I'd be just fine with it. | |
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Veteran
Posts: 120
| Its not surprising though............Its the way of the world. Misguided energy everywhere. This man will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law and then personally prosecuted. His family will be tormented, his life is over. But here in America we ruin cities because a thug got shot by a cop. | |
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Expert
Posts: 4121
Location: SE Louisiana | TXBO - 2015-07-30 4:23 PM
komet. - 2015-07-30 4:15 PM Herbie - 2015-07-30 11:00 AM I don't understand why our society is so concerned over something that happened in another country that is obviously the fault of the guides who issued the hunt.  My boss goes on big hunts like this all the time. He flies in, hunts, and flies out. It's the job of the guide to find the animal and say yay or nay. What kills me is we have people raising hundreds of thousands of dollars for this lion situation. What will that money go toward??? All the while the victims and their families of the incident in Chattanooga gun unnoticed.  How is it that the lion is more important than our heroes being slaughtered on our home soil? What about the guy who shot up the movie theatre last week?  What about the families of those victims? One day reporting on this type stuff that is happening RIGHT HERE, and yet people are outraged over a lion that was shot by a wealthy American on foreign soil, and was guided by locals who should know what is ok to shoot and what is not. Our priorities are so screwed up in this country that it's truly frightening.  You are comparing apples to oranges here.. Which is to say you are comparing two thing not related. Let me do the same to you. You and a whole bunch of other people here were all up in arms when Credit Card was stolen and butchered. Yet those abortions were still going on... Cecil was just as much a national icon there as American Pharoah is here... Can you imagine if someone were to poach American Pharoah out of his pasture? Would you be squawking about that or would you be objecting this news event was getting more attention than abortion?
Well this is just another point we do not agree on. If I had a choice between reading about doctor assisted abortion or going back to reading about back-alley/clothes-hanger abortions.... I know which one I'd pick.. | |
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Expert
Posts: 4121
Location: SE Louisiana | banjomia - 2015-07-30 4:30 PM
Its not surprising though............Its the way of the world. Misguided energy everywhere. This man will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law and then personally prosecuted. His family will be tormented, his life is over. But here in America we ruin cities because a thug got shot by a cop.
I don't know where you are coming from here.... I fully agree with the cop that shot the drunken, revoked driver the other day after he re-started his car and tried to drive away... | |
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 Proud to be Deplorable
Posts: 1929
| komet. - 2015-07-30 4:41 PM
banjomia - 2015-07-30 4:30 PM
Its not surprising though............Its the way of the world. Misguided energy everywhere. This man will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law and then personally prosecuted. His family will be tormented, his life is over. But here in America we ruin cities because a thug got shot by a cop.
I don't know where you are coming from here.... I fully agree with the cop that shot the drunken, revoked driver the other day after he re-started his car and tried to drive away...
Are you talking about the cop in Cinni.? | |
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Googly Goo
Posts: 7053
| komet. - 2015-07-30 4:37 PM TXBO - 2015-07-30 4:23 PM komet. - 2015-07-30 4:15 PM Herbie - 2015-07-30 11:00 AM I don't understand why our society is so concerned over something that happened in another country that is obviously the fault of the guides who issued the hunt. My boss goes on big hunts like this all the time. He flies in, hunts, and flies out. It's the job of the guide to find the animal and say yay or nay. What kills me is we have people raising hundreds of thousands of dollars for this lion situation. What will that money go toward??? All the while the victims and their families of the incident in Chattanooga gun unnoticed. How is it that the lion is more important than our heroes being slaughtered on our home soil? What about the guy who shot up the movie theatre last week? What about the families of those victims? One day reporting on this type stuff that is happening RIGHT HERE, and yet people are outraged over a lion that was shot by a wealthy American on foreign soil, and was guided by locals who should know what is ok to shoot and what is not. Our priorities are so screwed up in this country that it's truly frightening. You are comparing apples to oranges here.. Which is to say you are comparing two thing not related. Let me do the same to you. You and a whole bunch of other people here were all up in arms when Credit Card was stolen and butchered. Yet those abortions were still going on... Cecil was just as much a national icon there as American Pharoah is here... Can you imagine if someone were to poach American Pharoah out of his pasture? Would you be squawking about that or would you be objecting this news event was getting more attention than abortion? Well this is just another point we do not agree on. If I had a choice between reading about doctor assisted abortion or going back to reading about back-alley/clothes-hanger abortions.... I know which one I'd pick..
I rather not read about any abortion. I don't care whether the instrument of death was a clothes hanger, a scalpal, suction or pliers.
Edited by TXBO 2015-07-30 4:59 PM
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 Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| stayceem - 2015-07-30 3:54 PM rodeomom3 - 2015-07-30 2:32 PM cyount2009 - 2015-07-30 1:47 PM stayceem - 2015-07-30 1:02 PM The problem that I have with this issue is that most opposed, seem to be opposed to "game hunting" in general. This happens everywhere, everyday ... I've never seen anyone care so much, this guy just happened to make the news. I met a guy in Texas who owns a game farm. He has a Zebra, giraffe and many other exotic animals. If you have the cash, you can shoot the animal. He is the guide for his property and you pick what you want and he helps you get the kill. I dont agree with "game killing" however, I dont think this one individual needs to be persecuted alone. From what I have read, this lion was involved in research (which could be just as cruel depending on what kinda research). The guide is supposed to be responsible for the "paying customer." Whether or not the dentist knew, will never be fully known. And using a fishing without a license and the other illegal bear charge as leverage is ridiculous IMO. I see people everyday with these types of charges... some of them made distasteful decisions but a lot of them are pretty dumb cases with many circumstances most never know. I dont understand why the carcas was left and I dont agree with that. I also dont agree with lurying an animal out but this is common in "game killing." Again this is an issue with "game hunting" and this guy isnt the first nor will be the last to use these tactics. The same could be said for the scents and calls people use for deer and duck hunting. I also agree that we have much bigger issues we could be focusing on, donating to, etc. I have to disagree here. There are far more variables to using bottled scents and calls then there are to tying a carcass to a jeep to try to lure out a human/vehicle desensitized scavenging predator.
I am not defending the activist at this point or the poacher (in my mind, once a poacher, always a poacher and should be labeled as such ) but I can say given what facts are being released I am leaning toward the activists side.
We had the same situation occur with a bear here a few years ago. The bear frequented an upper class neighborhood for several years. They too had given this bear a name, I believe it was Arthur? A hunter, legal and legitimate, killed the bear in season, in zone, outside of the no hunting area, without bating, with a bow and the local media and activists went nuts. This hunter got lucky and caught this bear with it's pants down. I see nothing wrong when wildlife, regardless of what name you give it or where it spends the majority of it's time, is legally taken. What I do have an issue with is poachers either foreign or domestic.
The media has a tendency to label poachers as hunters which in turns labels legitimate and legal hunters as terrible law breaking and heartless villains to the rest of the world. And maybe you know, because I dont but if they didnt know who this lion was (which they're or at least the dentist is claiming )... how would they know it is desensatized to vehicles? People use scents and calls in attempts to bring said animal to a location or area dont they? I am fully open to learning more but based on the facts that I have seen (which isnt a ton.. ive read a few articles ), I think the public is overreacting.
You have to think the guides did know who this lion was. They have been charged with poaching. He was desensitized to vehicles because there are a ton of pictures of this lion very close to vehicles. He was a popular attraction in the park for guided tours, hence the reaction from the public. The death threats etc, forcing the dr to shut down his business are ridiculous. Kind of ironic they are mad about this doc killing something but turn around and threaten to kill him. Cecil certainly was not wary enough of the jeep to not follow it out of the park as opposed to an animal who flees when he sees/hears a vehicle. | |
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Expert
Posts: 4121
Location: SE Louisiana | jbhoot - 2015-07-30 4:45 PM
komet. - 2015-07-30 4:41 PM
banjomia - 2015-07-30 4:30 PM
Its not surprising though............Its the way of the world. Misguided energy everywhere. This man will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law and then personally prosecuted. His family will be tormented, his life is over. But here in America we ruin cities because a thug got shot by a cop.
I don't know where you are coming from here.... I fully agree with the cop that shot the drunken, revoked driver the other day after he re-started his car and tried to drive away...
Are you talking about the cop in Cinni.?
Yes I am... | |
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Proud to be Deplorable
Posts: 1929
| komet. - 2015-07-30 4:56 PM
jbhoot - 2015-07-30 4:45 PM
komet. - 2015-07-30 4:41 PM
banjomia - 2015-07-30 4:30 PM
Its not surprising though............Its the way of the world. Misguided energy everywhere. This man will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law and then personally prosecuted. His family will be tormented, his life is over. But here in America we ruin cities because a thug got shot by a cop.
I don't know where you are coming from here.... I fully agree with the cop that shot the drunken, revoked driver the other day after he re-started his car and tried to drive away...
Are you talking about the cop in Cinni.?
Yes I am...
Let me get this straight. You agree that he was correct in his actions even after viewing the cops own body cam video? | |
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Expert
Posts: 4121
Location: SE Louisiana | TrailGirl - 2015-07-30 11:38 AM Yeah it's tough to know for sure if the guy had any idea the hunt might not be kosher. And...with his shady past poaching conviction etc he isn't going to get much benefit of the doubt. But keep in mind that whether or not it's distasteful to folks...it is Legal to hunt and even bait lions there as they do have a population to manage, and this means of management does generate a great deal of funds for conservation and discourages the land owners from killing all lions they see to protect their livestock. The hunts give these animals real value that likely protects them somewhat. One thing I do hate is that the carcass/meat was left to rot. People in those areas are so protein deprived. That meat could have fed them. That is the usual way these things are handled. The hunter gets his trophy and the meat goes to locals. They will eat all but the baboons. So not only was it likely unethical and possibly an illegal hunt...they were completely wasteful and disrespectful of the resource. Cecil was estimated to be 13 years old. Their life expectancy is about 12-14 years in the wild...so...if that's any consolation. Facts of the case aside...the idea that some of these folks are ranting and raving...crying crocodile tears for ratings...threatening him and his family...that seems a bit ridiculous. When...as other have pointed out...Not NEARLY the same angst and drama was shown by these folks over the suffering/killing of late term babies for profit...or any number of other tragic human losses. Some folks really need to regain perspective...and try to keep their eye on the ball.
I don't know where you got your information... But this man does not have a previous conviction for poaching... unless you count 'Fishing without a license'.... He DOES have one for lying to federal investigators about where he shot the bear.. | |
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Expert
Posts: 4121
Location: SE Louisiana | jbhoot - 2015-07-30 5:07 PM
komet. - 2015-07-30 4:56 PM
jbhoot - 2015-07-30 4:45 PM
komet. - 2015-07-30 4:41 PM
banjomia - 2015-07-30 4:30 PM
Its not surprising though............Its the way of the world. Misguided energy everywhere. This man will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law and then personally prosecuted. His family will be tormented, his life is over. But here in America we ruin cities because a thug got shot by a cop.
I don't know where you are coming from here.... I fully agree with the cop that shot the drunken, revoked driver the other day after he re-started his car and tried to drive away...
Are you talking about the cop in Cinni.?
Yes I am...
Let me get this straight. You agree that he was correct in his actions even after viewing the cops own body cam video?
If you are talking about what the cop did.... Yes I am!!!! The cop already had justifiable suspicion of him being drunk and driving without a license. Maybe you are ok with a drunk driver speeding through public streets trying to evade the police... But I am not... I don't think anyone here that has lost a loved one to a drunk driver does either.
Edited by komet. 2015-07-30 5:48 PM
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Expert
Posts: 1561
| So a DUI sentence = the death penalty?  | |
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Expert
Posts: 4121
Location: SE Louisiana | It is acknowledged that this is an "edited video".... If it was edited there MUST be something in there they did not want everyone to hear.... | |
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Expert
Posts: 4121
Location: SE Louisiana | Itsme - 2015-07-30 6:01 PM
So a DUI sentence = the death penalty?
In some countries it is!!! In this case.. a drunk driver in possession of a deadly weapon, attempting to avoid arrest... I support what he did to protect the community.
Edited by komet. 2015-07-30 6:07 PM
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 BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | All these comparisons and trying to draw parallels between Cecil's killing, the killing of the fella in Cincinnati, and the infanticide of 1 million babies every 3 years is preposterous. The killers of Cecil and the Cincinnati man are being prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. The doctors who exterminate hundreds of thousands of babies, and profit from it are not. In fact, in some quarters they are hailed as heroes. The unlawful killing of any animal in no way can be compared to the tragedy we permit in this society, and, in fact, subsidize it.
I was 19 when my beautiful 40 year old daughter was conceived. We weren't married at the time, and my then fiancée wanted to have her terminated because it was embarassing to the family and inconvenient. I won the battle and she is a beautiful, intelligent woman who has blessed me with 2 beautiful grandchildren. That is my one and only anecdote, but multiply that by 50 million, and include in the tally and assessment, the countless millions of grandchildren. When you take that into account, obviously one can appreciate how dysfunctional society has become when we witness the senseless killing of an animal that results in universal outrage.
We simply have been programmed to look the other way when it comes to the slaughter of tens of millions of living fetuses/babies. Even The extermination of 6 million Jews during WWII doesn't compare, in my mind.
Add to that the fact that we are forced to finance it. | |
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Proud to be Deplorable
Posts: 1929
| komet. - 2015-07-30 5:47 PM
jbhoot - 2015-07-30 5:07 PM
komet. - 2015-07-30 4:56 PM
jbhoot - 2015-07-30 4:45 PM
komet. - 2015-07-30 4:41 PM
banjomia - 2015-07-30 4:30 PM
Its not surprising though............Its the way of the world. Misguided energy everywhere. This man will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law and then personally prosecuted. His family will be tormented, his life is over. But here in America we ruin cities because a thug got shot by a cop.
I don't know where you are coming from here.... I fully agree with the cop that shot the drunken, revoked driver the other day after he re-started his car and tried to drive away...
Are you talking about the cop in Cinni.?
Yes I am...
Let me get this straight. You agree that he was correct in his actions even after viewing the cops own body cam video?
If you are talking about what the cop did.... Yes I am!!!! The cop already had justifiable suspicion of him being drunk and driving without a license. Maybe you are ok with a drunk driver speeding through public streets trying to evade the police... But I am not... I don't think anyone here that has lost a loved one to a drunk driver does either.
By far the clearest case of murder by a cop I have ever seen. | |
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Folks on-line