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 It's not my fault I'm perfect
Posts: 13739
     
Location: Where the long tails flow, ND | I had my mare fit by a Martin Rep at an 8.5, custom ordered my Crown C saddle after I sold EVERYTHING I had previously been using to afford it. Got my saddle, made my first run and my mare stopped dead in her tracks between the 1st and 2nd barrel.....?! Tried it another run, same thing. I called Martin and ended up sending my saddle back convinced there was something wrong with the tree. In the mean time I kept one of my Carl Ammerman's (6 3/4 gullet, which I had ran her in previously) and smoked a 1D run the following weekend.
When I got my Martin back I sold it, way too skeptical for me, my mare has never done anything naughty or weird EVER. Then I began the saddle hunt, I had been using a Cactus Charmayne James until I recently purchased my Tami Semas.
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 I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
Location: In the Hills of Texas | I decided if I ever decide to start to run Elephants I know where to go look for a saddle to fit one. | |
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 Own It and Move On
Location: The edge of no where | Herbie - 2015-09-23 11:59 AM Agreed, cavyrunsbarrels, 100%. Unfortunately I see this at leat 70% of the time with those riding Crown C's. I'm not loyal to any one brand or any one style of saddle. There are several I like that I feel ride balanced. I'm just saying I am fully aware of the power of a good marketing department, advertising, and endorsements. :)
Tdove, totally agree with you. Libby Hurley has had a saddle made for years on a roping saddle tree (Toots Mansfield tree maybe, i'm sorry Libby if i'm wrong there and feel free to correct me), but that saddle just wrapped around a horse. It's one of the few saddles I wish i'd never sold.
That was one of the BEST explanations I've yet to see about saddle fit.
It's kinda funny to look at what a marketing campaign has done to people's beliefs about saddle fit. You have to strip away the fluff and the glitter from it. Just because a youtube video says it, doesn't make it true. Pretty sure the adjustable rigging is patented and the axis tree is as well......so then you pump up your marketing targets about WHY those are the best things ever (because you're the only supplier with them).
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Own It and Move On
Location: The edge of no where | SmokinGirlie - 2015-09-23 2:56 PM I had my mare fit by a Martin Rep at an 8.5, custom ordered my Crown C saddle after I sold EVERYTHING I had previously been using to afford it. Got my saddle, made my first run and my mare stopped dead in her tracks between the 1st and 2nd barrel.....?! Tried it another run, same thing. I called Martin and ended up sending my saddle back convinced there was something wrong with the tree. In the mean time I kept one of my Carl Ammerman's (6 3/4 gullet, which I had ran her in previously) and smoked a 1D run the following weekend.
When I got my Martin back I sold it, way too skeptical for me, my mare has never done anything naughty or weird EVER. Then I began the saddle hunt, I had been using a Cactus Charmayne James until I recently purchased my Tami Semas.
How do you like the TAmi Semas? I love my current saddle, but that's kinda on my wish list of things I'd like in my tackroom. | |
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 Cinnamon Honey One
Posts: 6549
Location: between here and there | Good read ladies! The only things I would add is, just like jeans, you gotta try them on first. We aren't all made alike either. I do see a difference in backs on our horses. Sure some haven't changed but I do see some changes that made me start working on new tree designs lately. I do think there have been alot of saddle fit changes made as well. Some should be tossed out the door with the wash and some have made others start diving in on changes without knowing about the horses and how they move - at all. Sad but true.
I personally started this journey when I had my retail store and mail order business and many customers are what made me get interested in saddle fit. Generally, we rode in whatever we had. Be it a trail or work saddle. If our horse objected to being ridden, it was because "he figured it out" or we changed bits or sometimes forced them into behaving to do whatever we wanted done. 20 yrs of working in this field, I know I'm still learning. I do know I was one of the first on the block to do changes and demand changes be made. I'm glad I did, but there sure has been an influx of problems.
On horses gullet sizes, my take is, most all horses are built like a triangle on the shoulders, meaning they get wider the farther down the shoulder goes. /\ Not that drastic but you get the idea. When you widen the gullet, it will lay further down on the shoulder. Shimming it will hold it up to some degree. Not all horses are built in a wedge shape from front to back - narrower on the wither to wider on the loin. The loin is the weakest point of the back and not to have a great deal of weight that far back from an ill fitting saddle or a large rider that rides their cantle. Widening the gullet, will lay it down further on the shoulders. Ok, you set it behind the shoulders. What happens then is the shoulder needs to slide under that tree - not into it. So, it needs to be flared enough to allow that. Shoulders will slide anywhere from 3" to 6" depending on the lay of the shoulder angle. Have I lost you yet??? lol | |
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  Damn Yankee
Posts: 12390
Location: Somewhere between raising hell and Amazing Grace | wimpyb - 2015-09-23 7:48 PM Good read ladies! The only things I would add is, just like jeans, you gotta try them on first. We aren't all made alike either. I do see a difference in backs on our horses. Sure some haven't changed but I do see some changes that made me start working on new tree designs lately. I do think there have been alot of saddle fit changes made as well. Some should be tossed out the door with the wash and some have made others start diving in on changes without knowing about the horses and how they move - at all. Sad but true. I personally started this journey when I had my retail store and mail order business and many customers are what made me get interested in saddle fit. Generally, we rode in whatever we had. Be it a trail or work saddle. If our horse objected to being ridden, it was because "he figured it out" or we changed bits or sometimes forced them into behaving to do whatever we wanted done. 20 yrs of working in this field, I know I'm still learning. I do know I was one of the first on the block to do changes and demand changes be made. I'm glad I did, but there sure has been an influx of problems. On horses gullet sizes, my take is, most all horses are built like a triangle on the shoulders, meaning they get wider the farther down the shoulder goes. /\ Not that drastic but you get the idea. When you widen the gullet, it will lay further down on the shoulder. Shimming it will hold it up to some degree. Not all horses are built in a wedge shape from front to back - narrower on the wither to wider on the loin. The loin is the weakest point of the back and not to have a great deal of weight that far back from an ill fitting saddle or a large rider that rides their cantle. Widening the gullet, will lay it down further on the shoulders. Ok, you set it behind the shoulders. What happens then is the shoulder needs to slide under that tree - not into it. So, it needs to be flared enough to allow that. Shoulders will slide anywhere from 3" to 6" depending on the lay of the shoulder angle. Have I lost you yet??? lol
You haven't lost me one bit. This always always makes me cringe. People think a saddle first their horse because it sits behind the shoulders well and fits the spot it sits, but when you watch a horse move, it looks painful. A lot of people I think don't realize the full range of motion of a horses shoulder.
By the way, I had a gal contact me today about the saddle of yours that I just bought, but I decided I am keeping it even if I don't end up needing it :) It's too nice to have not keep. | |
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 Expert
Posts: 1482
Location: on my horse | wimpyb - 2015-09-23 5:48 PM
Good read ladies! The only things I would add is, just like jeans, you gotta try them on first. We aren't all made alike either. I do see a difference in backs on our horses. Sure some haven't changed but I do see some changes that made me start working on new tree designs lately. I do think there have been alot of saddle fit changes made as well. Some should be tossed out the door with the wash and some have made others start diving in on changes without knowing about the horses and how they move - at all. Sad but true.
I personally started this journey when I had my retail store and mail order business and many customers are what made me get interested in saddle fit. Generally, we rode in whatever we had. Be it a trail or work saddle. If our horse objected to being ridden, it was because "he figured it out" or we changed bits or sometimes forced them into behaving to do whatever we wanted done. 20 yrs of working in this field, I know I'm still learning. I do know I was one of the first on the block to do changes and demand changes be made. I'm glad I did, but there sure has been an influx of problems.
On horses gullet sizes, my take is, most all horses are built like a triangle on the shoulders, meaning they get wider the farther down the shoulder goes. /\ Not that drastic but you get the idea. When you widen the gullet, it will lay further down on the shoulder. Shimming it will hold it up to some degree. Not all horses are built in a wedge shape from front to back - narrower on the wither to wider on the loin. The loin is the weakest point of the back and not to have a great deal of weight that far back from an ill fitting saddle or a large rider that rides their cantle. Widening the gullet, will lay it down further on the shoulders. Ok, you set it behind the shoulders. What happens then is the shoulder needs to slide under that tree - not into it. So, it needs to be flared enough to allow that. Shoulders will slide anywhere from 3" to 6" depending on the lay of the shoulder angle. Have I lost you yet??? lol
so quick question about saddle rock, when you can rock the saddle a bit (Front to back) on your horses back is that necessarily all that bad? That's the one burning saddle question I've had and it seems like in relation to larger tree sizes you don't see that as much but I think its because everything is just so dumped down on the horse? | |
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 I Don't Brag
Posts: 6960
| Well I have a buckskin elephant that I am trying to fit. It's not sweat marks I worry about but not being able to tighten the saddle enough for the saddle NOT to roll when I mount.....or turn a barrel at speed.
I used to say that she is flat backed and mutton withered, but then I REALLY looked at her and she HAS a decent wither, but it is buried in muscle. To further complicate the issue she is short backed so there is no room to set a saddle back. I swear, if I took a protractor to her back I would get a reverse angle flare. I have tried a halflinger and a draft horse tree and neither was flat enough through the bars. Only the bottom third of the bar was actually making contact with her back. I tried one of Meleta's saddles on her and it rolls, just like every other saddle I have tried so far. I also tried a Caldwell (one of the wider trees) and it hurt me just to walk around in and nearly crippled me when I tried to lope through a pattern....and it rolled.
Since she is not finished, I cannot justify a custom made saddle for her, and the one saddle I had made to order on a specific tree I sold, because it was uncomfortable and impossible for me to ride effectively in. I did think that hubby's Billy Cook rope saddle fits her much better. I SO wish I still had one of the fly weight BC cutting saddles I rode in for years! But cannot ride the BC barrel saddles I have tried.
So FQHB don't work, what then are my options? I've been looking for a Lisa Lockhart to try next (this mare looks like she could be Louie's sister....maybe even his big sister, lol). The flex aspect of it makes me doubtful as my Circle Y Special EFFX is a rolling piece of crap on her too. The 8" gullet I ride her in now seems OK but the flare does not.
Grrrrr!
As for seat size I am not small but can ride comfortably in a 14" seat....until I run barrels. I need a 15" to be able to use the saddle horn effectively, I found that I pull myself down in a 14 instead of locking myself in. I also cannot stand a high cantle (low back issues) and HATE a deep seat, I want a flat seat where I can get over my legs instead of riding behind them. In an English saddle your seat size is determined by the length of your thigh NOT the size of your butt and I have to think that a western saddle is not so different. | |
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Posts: 4121
Location: SE Louisiana | Simple...
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 851
Location: West Texas | redmansmyman11 - 2015-09-24 12:23 AM
wimpyb - 2015-09-23 5:48 PM
Good read ladies! The only things I would add is, just like jeans, you gotta try them on first. We aren't all made alike either. I do see a difference in backs on our horses. Sure some haven't changed but I do see some changes that made me start working on new tree designs lately. I do think there have been alot of saddle fit changes made as well. Some should be tossed out the door with the wash and some have made others start diving in on changes without knowing about the horses and how they move - at all. Sad but true.
I personally started this journey when I had my retail store and mail order business and many customers are what made me get interested in saddle fit. Generally, we rode in whatever we had. Be it a trail or work saddle. If our horse objected to being ridden, it was because "he figured it out" or we changed bits or sometimes forced them into behaving to do whatever we wanted done. 20 yrs of working in this field, I know I'm still learning. I do know I was one of the first on the block to do changes and demand changes be made. I'm glad I did, but there sure has been an influx of problems.
On horses gullet sizes, my take is, most all horses are built like a triangle on the shoulders, meaning they get wider the farther down the shoulder goes. /\ Not that drastic but you get the idea. When you widen the gullet, it will lay further down on the shoulder. Shimming it will hold it up to some degree. Not all horses are built in a wedge shape from front to back - narrower on the wither to wider on the loin. The loin is the weakest point of the back and not to have a great deal of weight that far back from an ill fitting saddle or a large rider that rides their cantle. Widening the gullet, will lay it down further on the shoulders. Ok, you set it behind the shoulders. What happens then is the shoulder needs to slide under that tree - not into it. So, it needs to be flared enough to allow that. Shoulders will slide anywhere from 3" to 6" depending on the lay of the shoulder angle. Have I lost you yet??? lol
so quick question about saddle rock, when you can rock the saddle a bit (Front to back ) on your horses back is that necessarily all that bad? That's the one burning saddle question I've had and it seems like in relation to larger tree sizes you don't see that as much but I think its because everything is just so dumped down on the horse?
Saddle rock is bad and means the saddle does not fit. Here is s way I would look at it. If your barrel saddle fit like it does, pretend that it is built stout enough to rope in. If you went out and tied down 6 hard running calves, what level of comfort would your horse have. In my opinion, that would be my litmus test. A saddle that rocked would definitely sore one. Also, a saddle that fit off the front of the back, that was shimmed (basically Sherry's saddle in the video), would probably get you bucked off.
I realize barrel saddles don't take a jerk and do not have the same exact function of a roping saddle. But my thoughts are, if it doesn't fit, it doesn't fit. One other thing to note. Dry marks do not always mean the saddle fits poorly. Of course a perfect fitting saddle doesn't have them, but just because you have dry marks , it doesn't mean your saddle is hurting soring one up. This topic is of much debate among experts, size of marks, ok or bad, how to fix, etc. | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 851
Location: West Texas | One other thing, any honest saddle maker will tell you that it is difficult to tell how well a finished saddle fits a horse by looking. You really have to have the raw tree. Then you don't want it to fit like a glove, because it needs a certain amount of room for the leather and saddle pad. Just like boots, they fit your feet with socks, not barefoot. | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 851
Location: West Texas | rodeoveteran - 2015-09-24 1:42 AM
Well I have a buckskin elephant that I am trying to fit. It's not sweat marks I worry about but not being able to tighten the saddle enough for the saddle NOT to roll when I mount.....or turn a barrel at speed.
I used to say that she is flat backed and mutton withered, but then I REALLY looked at her and she HAS a decent wither, but it is buried in muscle. To further complicate the issue she is short backed so there is no room to set a saddle back. I swear, if I took a protractor to her back I would get a reverse angle flare. I have tried a halflinger and a draft horse tree and neither was flat enough through the bars. Only the bottom third of the bar was actually making contact with her back. I tried one of Meleta's saddles on her and it rolls, just like every other saddle I have tried so far. I also tried a Caldwell (one of the wider trees) and it hurt me just to walk around in and nearly crippled me when I tried to lope through a pattern....and it rolled.
Since she is not finished, I cannot justify a custom made saddle for her, and the one saddle I had made to order on a specific tree I sold, because it was uncomfortable and impossible for me to ride effectively in. I did think that hubby's Billy Cook rope saddle fits her much better. I SO wish I still had one of the fly weight BC cutting saddles I rode in for years! But cannot ride the BC barrel saddles I have tried.
So FQHB don't work, what then are my options? I've been looking for a Lisa Lockhart to try next (this mare looks like she could be Louie's sister....maybe even his big sister, lol). The flex aspect of it makes me doubtful as my Circle Y Special EFFX is a rolling piece of crap on her too. The 8" gullet I ride her in now seems OK but the flare does not.
Grrrrr!
As for seat size I am not small but can ride comfortably in a 14" seat....until I run barrels. I need a 15" to be able to use the saddle horn effectively, I found that I pull myself down in a 14 instead of locking myself in. I also cannot stand a high cantle (low back issues) and HATE a deep seat, I want a flat seat where I can get over my legs instead of riding behind them. In an English saddle your seat size is determined by the length of your thigh NOT the size of your butt and I have to think that a western saddle is not so different.
My dad had a mare like that and had to get a custom tree made. Any saddle for a back like that will have more roll than what you ideally want.
You bring up an excellent point, the size of leg cut makes a monster difference in seat size. Too big of leg cut can make a seat feel a whole size bigger. I won a trophy saddle and was able to order the size. When I got it, I tried to rope in it and I was all over the place. | |
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Cinnamon Honey One
Posts: 6549
Location: between here and there | Too much rock will make your horse sore. It's resting pretty much in the center of the tree so once you get on to ride imagine a rocking
chair. Pressure in the center of the tree with the ends open. | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 883
Location: Southern Indiana | rodeoveteran - 2015-09-24 1:42 AM Well I have a buckskin elephant that I am trying to fit. It's not sweat marks I worry about but not being able to tighten the saddle enough for the saddle NOT to roll when I mount.....or turn a barrel at speed. I used to say that she is flat backed and mutton withered, but then I REALLY looked at her and she HAS a decent wither, but it is buried in muscle. To further complicate the issue she is short backed so there is no room to set a saddle back. I swear, if I took a protractor to her back I would get a reverse angle flare. I have tried a halflinger and a draft horse tree and neither was flat enough through the bars. Only the bottom third of the bar was actually making contact with her back. I tried one of Meleta's saddles on her and it rolls, just like every other saddle I have tried so far. I also tried a Caldwell (one of the wider trees) and it hurt me just to walk around in and nearly crippled me when I tried to lope through a pattern....and it rolled. Since she is not finished, I cannot justify a custom made saddle for her, and the one saddle I had made to order on a specific tree I sold, because it was uncomfortable and impossible for me to ride effectively in. I did think that hubby's Billy Cook rope saddle fits her much better. I SO wish I still had one of the fly weight BC cutting saddles I rode in for years! But cannot ride the BC barrel saddles I have tried. So FQHB don't work, what then are my options? I've been looking for a Lisa Lockhart to try next (this mare looks like she could be Louie's sister....maybe even his big sister, lol). The flex aspect of it makes me doubtful as my Circle Y Special EFFX is a rolling piece of crap on her too. The 8" gullet I ride her in now seems OK but the flare does not. Grrrrr! As for seat size I am not small but can ride comfortably in a 14" seat....until I run barrels. I need a 15" to be able to use the saddle horn effectively, I found that I pull myself down in a 14 instead of locking myself in. I also cannot stand a high cantle (low back issues) and HATE a deep seat, I want a flat seat where I can get over my legs instead of riding behind them. In an English saddle your seat size is determined by the length of your thigh NOT the size of your butt and I have to think that a western saddle is not so different.
I have the same issue on my mare. I get peeved with tightening my saddle and I know my mare does too! It would be nice to ride and not feel like my saddle is loose! My mare has whithers but they are fuller and more rounded. | |
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It's not my fault I'm perfect
Posts: 13739
Location: Where the long tails flow, ND | MS2011 - 2015-09-23 4:48 PM SmokinGirlie - 2015-09-23 2:56 PM I had my mare fit by a Martin Rep at an 8.5, custom ordered my Crown C saddle after I sold EVERYTHING I had previously been using to afford it. Got my saddle, made my first run and my mare stopped dead in her tracks between the 1st and 2nd barrel.....?! Tried it another run, same thing. I called Martin and ended up sending my saddle back convinced there was something wrong with the tree. In the mean time I kept one of my Carl Ammerman's (6 3/4 gullet, which I had ran her in previously) and smoked a 1D run the following weekend.
When I got my Martin back I sold it, way too skeptical for me, my mare has never done anything naughty or weird EVER. Then I began the saddle hunt, I had been using a Cactus Charmayne James until I recently purchased my Tami Semas.
Edited by SmokinGirlie 2015-09-24 8:39 AM
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 Whack and Roll
Posts: 6342
Location: NE Texas | rodeoveteran - 2015-09-24 1:42 AM Well I have a buckskin elephant that I am trying to fit. It's not sweat marks I worry about but not being able to tighten the saddle enough for the saddle NOT to roll when I mount.....or turn a barrel at speed. I used to say that she is flat backed and mutton withered, but then I REALLY looked at her and she HAS a decent wither, but it is buried in muscle. To further complicate the issue she is short backed so there is no room to set a saddle back. I swear, if I took a protractor to her back I would get a reverse angle flare. I have tried a halflinger and a draft horse tree and neither was flat enough through the bars. Only the bottom third of the bar was actually making contact with her back. I tried one of Meleta's saddles on her and it rolls, just like every other saddle I have tried so far. I also tried a Caldwell (one of the wider trees) and it hurt me just to walk around in and nearly crippled me when I tried to lope through a pattern....and it rolled. Since she is not finished, I cannot justify a custom made saddle for her, and the one saddle I had made to order on a specific tree I sold, because it was uncomfortable and impossible for me to ride effectively in. I did think that hubby's Billy Cook rope saddle fits her much better. I SO wish I still had one of the fly weight BC cutting saddles I rode in for years! But cannot ride the BC barrel saddles I have tried. So FQHB don't work, what then are my options? I've been looking for a Lisa Lockhart to try next (this mare looks like she could be Louie's sister....maybe even his big sister, lol). The flex aspect of it makes me doubtful as my Circle Y Special EFFX is a rolling piece of crap on her too. The 8" gullet I ride her in now seems OK but the flare does not. Grrrrr! As for seat size I am not small but can ride comfortably in a 14" seat....until I run barrels. I need a 15" to be able to use the saddle horn effectively, I found that I pull myself down in a 14 instead of locking myself in. I also cannot stand a high cantle (low back issues) and HATE a deep seat, I want a flat seat where I can get over my legs instead of riding behind them. In an English saddle your seat size is determined by the length of your thigh NOT the size of your butt and I have to think that a western saddle is not so different.
You should contact Libby Hurley. Her saddle is made on a wide roping type tree. It's a flatter seat with a lower pomel and cantle. I had a horse years ago exactly like you're describing and it worked for her. As a 4 YO she had those big wide shoulders and was just ultra wide throughout. She did change as she matured and got some wither and then it wasn't such an issue.
Also, a saddleright pad will help with the stability. My current horse isn't round backed and does have a decent wither, but sucker will turn out from under you and leave you and your saddle hanging in thin air and off the side. I do have to snug my girth up a bit tighter than I want to, but without my saddleright, I feel like i'm riding a loose hided bucking bull. I've kept a saddleright pad around for years, but this is the first horse i've actually used it on consistently. | |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| rodeoveteran - 2015-09-24 1:42 AM
Well I have a buckskin elephant that I am trying to fit. It's not sweat marks I worry about but not being able to tighten the saddle enough for the saddle NOT to roll when I mount.....or turn a barrel at speed.
I used to say that she is flat backed and mutton withered, but then I REALLY looked at her and she HAS a decent wither, but it is buried in muscle. To further complicate the issue she is short backed so there is no room to set a saddle back. I swear, if I took a protractor to her back I would get a reverse angle flare. I have tried a halflinger and a draft horse tree and neither was flat enough through the bars. Only the bottom third of the bar was actually making contact with her back. I tried one of Meleta's saddles on her and it rolls, just like every other saddle I have tried so far. I also tried a Caldwell (one of the wider trees) and it hurt me just to walk around in and nearly crippled me when I tried to lope through a pattern....and it rolled.
Since she is not finished, I cannot justify a custom made saddle for her, and the one saddle I had made to order on a specific tree I sold, because it was uncomfortable and impossible for me to ride effectively in. I did think that hubby's Billy Cook rope saddle fits her much better. I SO wish I still had one of the fly weight BC cutting saddles I rode in for years! But cannot ride the BC barrel saddles I have tried.
So FQHB don't work, what then are my options? I've been looking for a Lisa Lockhart to try next (this mare looks like she could be Louie's sister....maybe even his big sister, lol). The flex aspect of it makes me doubtful as my Circle Y Special EFFX is a rolling piece of crap on her too. The 8" gullet I ride her in now seems OK but the flare does not.
Grrrrr!
As for seat size I am not small but can ride comfortably in a 14" seat....until I run barrels. I need a 15" to be able to use the saddle horn effectively, I found that I pull myself down in a 14 instead of locking myself in. I also cannot stand a high cantle (low back issues) and HATE a deep seat, I want a flat seat where I can get over my legs instead of riding behind them. In an English saddle your seat size is determined by the length of your thigh NOT the size of your butt and I have to think that a western saddle is not so different.
I have one of those horses too, I tried many saddles
Tod sloan b3
Lisa Lockhart extra wide ( there is discrepancy if the new wides are the same as the extra wides)
Marlene eddelman by circle y
Sibley
I can't recall all the ones I tried and I end up getting her fitted by Brian and Tracey, she needed an 11 gullet with a flat tree, I don't shim her, and it is the only saddle that she is not cold backed in.
Good luck, I know how frustrating it is to fit these horses | |
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 Regular
Posts: 67
| So much to take in.
What about the Tammy & Jackie treeless saddles? Whats the fit experts thoughts on them? | |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| Trippin - 2015-09-24 11:48 AM
So much to take in.
What about the Tammy & Jackie treeless saddles? Whats the fit experts thoughts on them?
The pommel is still solid material, so it can still pinch at the shoulders, but will conform to the rest of the back.
I believe this is why circle y made the regular and the wide in the Tammy and Jackie saddles | |
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I Don't Brag
Posts: 6960
| Herbie - 2015-09-24 8:59 AM
rodeoveteran - 2015-09-24 1:42 AM Well I have a buckskin elephant that I am trying to fit. It's not sweat marks I worry about but not being able to tighten the saddle enough for the saddle NOT to roll when I mount.....or turn a barrel at speed. I used to say that she is flat backed and mutton withered, but then I REALLY looked at her and she HAS a decent wither, but it is buried in muscle. To further complicate the issue she is short backed so there is no room to set a saddle back. I swear, if I took a protractor to her back I would get a reverse angle flare. I have tried a halflinger and a draft horse tree and neither was flat enough through the bars. Only the bottom third of the bar was actually making contact with her back. I tried one of Meleta's saddles on her and it rolls, just like every other saddle I have tried so far. I also tried a Caldwell (one of the wider trees) and it hurt me just to walk around in and nearly crippled me when I tried to lope through a pattern....and it rolled. Since she is not finished, I cannot justify a custom made saddle for her, and the one saddle I had made to order on a specific tree I sold, because it was uncomfortable and impossible for me to ride effectively in. I did think that hubby's Billy Cook rope saddle fits her much better. I SO wish I still had one of the fly weight BC cutting saddles I rode in for years! But cannot ride the BC barrel saddles I have tried. So FQHB don't work, what then are my options? I've been looking for a Lisa Lockhart to try next (this mare looks like she could be Louie's sister....maybe even his big sister, lol). The flex aspect of it makes me doubtful as my Circle Y Special EFFX is a rolling piece of crap on her too. The 8" gullet I ride her in now seems OK but the flare does not. Grrrrr! As for seat size I am not small but can ride comfortably in a 14" seat....until I run barrels. I need a 15" to be able to use the saddle horn effectively, I found that I pull myself down in a 14 instead of locking myself in. I also cannot stand a high cantle (low back issues) and HATE a deep seat, I want a flat seat where I can get over my legs instead of riding behind them. In an English saddle your seat size is determined by the length of your thigh NOT the size of your butt and I have to think that a western saddle is not so different.
You should contact Libby Hurley. Her saddle is made on a wide roping type tree. It's a flatter seat with a lower pomel and cantle. I had a horse years ago exactly like you're describing and it worked for her. As a 4 YO she had those big wide shoulders and was just ultra wide throughout. She did change as she matured and got some wither and then it wasn't such an issue.
Also, a saddleright pad will help with the stability. My current horse isn't round backed and does have a decent wither, but sucker will turn out from under you and leave you and your saddle hanging in thin air and off the side. I do have to snug my girth up a bit tighter than I want to, but without my saddleright, I feel like i'm riding a loose hided bucking bull. I've kept a saddleright pad around for years, but this is the first horse i've actually used it on consistently.
Unfortunately, I already use a Saddleright, so cross that possibility off the list.
I will look into the Libby Hurley tho. Thanks CM!
edited to add: Just looked at the Libby Hurley saddles and found ones made by Circle Y and by Ammerman. Both had too much rise in the seat and too high a cantle. Sigh
Edited by rodeoveteran 2015-09-24 1:45 PM
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