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  Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
  
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | I don't even have the energy to explain as others have done it better than I. I am all for our rights. I carry, I have a license and I will protect my family at all costs. We don't live in a fantasy land. If ANYONE wants a gun bad enough, they can get it. They will get it and if they want to kill someone, they will. The only chance of them being stopped is for someone with a gun to stop them.
Just read this morning that Chicago has one of the strictest gun laws in the US..also one of the highest crime rates if not THE highest.
Edited by wyoming barrel racer 2015-10-02 12:56 PM
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 Hawty & Nawty
Posts: 20424
| The largest army in the world are the armed citizens of the U.S. Each time something like this happens I start questioning all of it just like the rest of us do, but in the end, the foundation and backbone of being free rest solely on the ability of the private citizen to defend itself against enemies foriegn and domestic. These mass shooting are copy cat cowards that walk into places where they don't expect a fight. You don't see these chicken shizt pulling a stunt like this in sportman's warehouse. I don't know what the answers are other than quit treating them like they are sick and just start publically hanging them to send a clear message for any other nut job who wants his fifteen minutes of fame. | |
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The Resident Destroyer of Liberal Logic
 
Location: PNW | Bigfoot - 2015-10-02 10:20 AM
I'm concealed carry now. I used to think only idiots, and gun freaks were concealed carry. The world is a crazy place, and I'm on the road with rodeo all hours of the night. It's just best to carry. It used to feel funny, now it doesn't. It feels normal, in fact I wouldn't dream of going anywhere but the court house, or an airplane ride with out it. People that shoot unarmed citizens are cowards. More people carrying=more cowards backing down.
Anytime I am in public, ESPECIALLY with my kids (1 and 3 years old) I immediately identify escape routes, hiding places, etc. I HATE that his is my first instinct. I HATE that I live in a world that has made this my first instinct. I'm also grateful for the knowledge and skills to be able to protect my family and the people around me. I'm not a "gun nut", I'm just not naive. I know there are SICK (mentally, emotionally, and generally) people in this world who have no thoughts for humanity, and I'm prepared and willing to do everything in my power to protect my family, myself, and people near me.
I had an encounter in a grocery store this summer that left me with a very curious, surprising feeling. I was walking through the grocery store with my two kids, shopping away merrily, when I noticed the man down the aisle from me was carrying a pistol in a drop holster. Open carry, broad daylight, this man has a pistol. Ten years ago, before becoming educated about guns, gun laws, becoming a mom, etc. I would have been AFRAID of this person. That day I was COMFORTED. I know I pass people with concealed weapons all the time, just like myself, who you would never even know were packing - without a thought. Instead of being fearful that this man in the grocery store would suddenly draw his pistol and gun down my children and me, I was comforted in the fact that his legal, safe carrying of that pistol meant that he was just like me. He was an American, exercising his right to protect himself and his community (including my children and myself). If he was a criminal, I wouldn't have had time to feel comforted, I'd already have been dead. So instead of giving him a wide berth as I walked past the apple sauce, I told him exactly how I felt "Thank you for carrying that pistol, it is a comfort to know that there are people like you still in this country."
Edited by svincent 2015-10-02 12:35 PM
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Member
Posts: 49
Location: In the saddle enjoying the East Texas sky | I think that in general American media is very liberal, and these events are a great tool to light a fire under gun control. It is my belief that the media spends to much time on the perpetrator of the crime and not the victims. I feel as though some people commit heinous crimes for the notoriety. It becomes habit to watch the news and remember the Son of Sam or Jeffrey Dahmer and what they did but I don't think we remember their victims. Then we have TV channels with episodes depicting their lives and how they got to where they are. To someone with severe mental issues, this could seem very glamorous. I also think children these days are not raised right. I see too many families who do not raise their kids to have morals or self respect or a desire to help others. I see a lot of adults who don't like seeing other people happy and they are raising their kids the same way. | |
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 Undercover Amish Mafia Member
Posts: 9991
Location: Kansas | People will still find a way to kill other people, guns or not.
We as Americans should have the right to choose if we want to carry a gun or not. My grandpa is a retired police officer with over 20 years on the force. He still carries his standard issue 9mm handgun with him EVERYWHERE he goes.
Guns don't kill people, the sick choices others make do. This board has had this discussion before.......
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Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | RidenFly - 2015-10-02 11:31 AM The largest army in the world are the armed citizens of the U.S. Each time something like this happens I start questioning all of it just like the rest of us do, but in the end, the foundation and backbone of being free rest solely on the ability of the private citizen to defend itself against enemies foriegn and domestic. These mass shooting are copy cat cowards that walk into places where they don't expect a fight. You don't see these chicken shizt pulling a stunt like this in sportman's warehouse. I don't know what the answers are other than quit treating them like they are sick and just start publically hanging them to send a clear message for any other nut job who wants his fifteen minutes of fame.
Yes!! A big reason all the asshats of the world have chosen not to bring war to our soil. Except the chicken $hit way 9/11 happened. I would have eliminated them asap, but it would not have been very politically correct and we all know the USA is all about politically correct. | |
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I just read the headlines
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Thank you for posting that.  | |
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Common Sense and then some
Location: So. California | I don't believe anyone has an answer to the problem of school shootings. There have been 19 shootings at schools this year alone (40 shootings last year). Many I hadn't even heard about - the national news didn't pick them up (or I just didn't hear about them) for whatever reason. I find this incredibly heartbreaking and sad. The reasons for the shootings are as varied as the locations and the victims.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_States
Yes, we have the right to bear arms as clearly defined in the 2nd amendment. This is indisputable.
Would stricter requirements to obtain guns legally reduce this number? Maybe, maybe not. Guns are easily obtained through non-legal means. Unfortunately, the facts show most (not all) cases of shootings, the guns have been obtained legally.
Current background check regulations won't ferret out those with emotional illness or even some mental illness due to Hipaa rules/regulations. Or those with such illnesses, never seek help, therefore are never identified. How can they rule someone out, if they've never been identified?
Is training/arming students/teachers the answer? I highly doubt that would be effective, as even more may be killed wounded by crossfire. Being trained/armed is one thing, being able to react accordingly under extreme duress is at an entirely different level. The natural instinct is to flee, few try to stop the assailant and many of those are killed or maimed.
There is not a one size fits all answer. These horrific tragedies keep occuring, we keep having the same arguments, throwing out the same rational/excuses (all sides) and nothing changes. Then another school shooting occurs and we jump back on the merry-go-round, argue the same points and end up at square one. The only difference is more innocents have been killed... At some point enough will be enough, we, as a nation haven't gotten there yet.... May God bless all of us! 
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Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming |
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The Resident Destroyer of Liberal Logic
Location: PNW | Anniemae - 2015-10-02 10:35 AM
I don't believe anyone has an answer to the problem of school shootings. There have been 19 shootings at schools this year alone (40 shootings last year).  Many I hadn't even heard about - the national news didn't pick them up (or I just didn't hear about them) for whatever reason. I find this incredibly heartbreaking and sad.  The reasons for the shootings are as varied as the locations and the victims.Â
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_States
Yes, we have the right to bear arms as clearly defined in the 2nd amendment. This is indisputable.Â
Would stricter requirements to obtain guns legally reduce this number? Maybe, maybe not. Guns are easily obtained through non-legal means.  Unfortunately, the facts show most (not all) cases of shootings, the guns have been obtained legally.
Current background check regulations won't ferret out those with emotional illness or even some mental illness due to Hipaa rules/regulations. Or those with such illnesses, never seek help, therefore are never identified. How can they rule someone out, if they've never been identified?
Is training/arming students/teachers the answer? I highly doubt that would be effective, as even more may be killed wounded by crossfire. Being trained/armed is one thing, being able to react accordingly under extreme duress is at an entirely different level. The natural instinct is to flee, few try to stop the assailant and many of those are killed or maimed. Â
There is not a one size fits all answer. These horrific tragedies keep occuring, we keep having the same arguments, throwing out the same rational/excuses (all sides) and nothing changes. Then another school shooting occurs and we jump back on the merry-go-round, argue the same points and end up at square one. The only difference is more innocents have been killed...  At some point enough will be enough, we, as a nation haven't gotten there yet.... May God bless all of us!   Â
 Â
The system is NOT perfect, you are absolutely right. The solution would be to fix the current system, NOT legislate more flaws into it.
As far as arming staff at schools, your comments are ridiculous. There likely wouldn't BE crossfire in an active shooter situation at a school. Across the board, active shooter drills involve putting yourself and your class into the corner LEAST visible by the windows and doors into the classroom and stay low to the floor - even if this means piling on top of one another. Lights are turned off, doors should be locked or barricaded if time allows. The teacher then places him/herself BETWEEN THE ENTRANCE AND THE STUDENTS. There's no room for crossfire. There's only room for the teacher to have the opportunity to defend the students, or not. As it stands right now, the answer is "not."
ETA: As in my previous comments, I'm not in any way saying that teachers and staff should just be handed a pistol and away they go. Staff should spend WEEKS, if not MONTHS during the summer being trained by MILITARY in military tactics, safety, and defensive maneuvers. I would HAPPILY have my taxes raised to fund that program.
Edited by svincent 2015-10-02 12:44 PM
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 878
Location: "...way down south in the Everglades..." | jkrm - 2015-10-02 12:59 PM Thanks everyone for your replies and opinions and keeping it civil and respectful. I guess what I'm trying to understand then is why does this seem to happen so often in the United States versus other countries? Yes it does happen in other countries and has even happened here in Canada, but not near as often or as violently as the states. Why? I do realize compairing Canada to the U.S. is apples to oranges due to population numbers but even compared to other countries it seems to happen so much more in the states. Does it boil down to health care, education, social economic issues? How much does media play a roll in this with sensationalizing it?
If gun control is not the answer, what is. We as a whole humane race need to fix this.
All of those impact it...I personally think moral values in the country are in such a sharp decline. Here's a good example...my 4th grader got made fun of earlier this week and they said he was "girlie" because he said please and thank you and held the door for another student. That's pathetic...
I also see two different types of violent crimes..there's the gang bangers shooting at each other, domestic violence issues, armed robbery..etc. The vast majority of those are IMO decline of morals and parenting, media and neighborhood influences, education, and poverty.
Then there's the serial killers and mass murderers. I think that's a whole different type of psycho. There's a big difference between a dispute that goes wrong vs. the sick premediated murder kill spree like the one that just happened. That's where mental health needs to be addressed and that is what I think the government should be concerning themselves with, not more gun control laws.
If anything we need less gun control laws. Those poor kids in OR were sitting ducks in a "gun free zone" on their campus. I personally carry and have my license. I won't leave home without it. I do work in a rough area..there were 7 people murdered in one 24 hour period a week ago less than 5 miles from here. It was gang/drug activity.
But anyhow, mental health issues should be at the forefront of our gov't leaders discussions. As for the other issues and decline in moral values, I haven't got a clue...that's a self repeating cycle that certainly won't improve on its own.
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 The Original Cyber Bartender
Location: Washington | What comes to mind everytime is that these low lifes go to where they know it is a gun free zone. They are chickens, they need to feel power, so they kill many. Just think if that ex military man had a gun he would have saved lives, guns also can save lives. IMHO We need to do away with gun free zones. Then maybe our schools wouldn't be a shooting gallery. | |
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The Resident Destroyer of Liberal Logic
Location: PNW | fatchance - 2015-10-02 10:50 AM
What comes to mind everytime is that these low lifes go to where they know it is a gun free zone. They are chickens, they need to feel power, so they kill many. Just think if that ex military man had a gun he would have saved lives, guns also can save lives. IMHO We need to do away with gun free zones. Then maybe our schools wouldn't be a shooting gallery.
100% agree. The only thing that stops a bad man with a gun is a good man with a gun.
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Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | svincent - 2015-10-02 11:55 AM fatchance - 2015-10-02 10:50 AM What comes to mind everytime is that these low lifes go to where they know it is a gun free zone. They are chickens, they need to feel power, so they kill many. Just think if that ex military man had a gun he would have saved lives, guns also can save lives. IMHO We need to do away with gun free zones. Then maybe our schools wouldn't be a shooting gallery. 100% agree. The only thing that stops a bad man with a gun is a good man with a gun.
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The Resident Destroyer of Liberal Logic
Location: PNW | "This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration. Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future." - Adolf Hitler, 1935
And we all know how well that turned out. Whoever said the largest army in the world is the armed American public is 100% correct. Hitler's first step in carrying out the Holocaust was to DISARM the public.
Edited by svincent 2015-10-02 1:02 PM
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 725
| I felt safe in my town, small rural area, small towns, little schools. But even in our pop. 300 town in the middle of the cornfields in Iowa, had a wakeup call this year. The kidnapping and death of two girls walking home from school, and then an elderly man murdered in his home. I hate to say it, but these days even if nothing has ever happened in your town ever, it could. I like the piece of mind knowing I will have protection against an intruder. The bad guys will always find a way to have guns, no matter what. It's a sad truth. | |
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 Texas Tenderheart
Posts: 6715
Location: Red Raiderland | svincent - 2015-10-02 12:58 PM "This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration. Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future." - Adolf Hitler, 1935 And we all know how well that turned out. Whoever said the largest army in the world is the armed American public is 100% correct. Hitler's first step in carrying out the Holocaust was to DISARM the public.
This is the same idea obama and his administration have for our country. I believe the dude that did the shootings yesterday was a converted muslim, right? | |
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| svincent - 2015-10-02 12:55 PM
fatchance - 2015-10-02 10:50 AM
What comes to mind everytime is that these low lifes go to where they know it is a gun free zone. They are chickens, they need to feel power, so they kill many. Just think if that ex military man had a gun he would have saved lives, guns also can save lives. IMHO We need to do away with gun free zones. Then maybe our schools wouldn't be a shooting gallery.
100% agree. The only thing that stops a bad man with a gun is a good man with a gun.
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 Expert
Posts: 4121
Location: SE Louisiana | Nateracer - 2015-10-02 11:27 AM I posted this to someone's FB this morning. I didn't feel like typing it all again.
No one in their RIGHT mind goes out with intention to kill someone. Guns don't kill people, people kill people. I live with around 10 guns, they haven't tried to kill me or anyone else. Gun control isn't the answer. Mental health support is what is needed. Mental health in the background check information would be helpful. Background checks are mandatory unless you have a permit to carry. Permits require a background check before they are issued. If you are mentally unstable, but have committed no crimes, you still have a clean background check. If you are a teen who committed underage crimes, those go away when you are 18, which is how old you have to be to get a permit. So it's NOT a GUN issue. It's a SYSTEM issue in which people who are unstable, but at the time are crime free, are able to get the guns. They could build bombs, they could stab people, they could hijack a plane, etc, but the SYSTEM doesn't tell the seller that they are mentally ill. The OTHER problem with mentally unstable people is they may not know they have mental health issues or won't admit they have issues and they won't see a doctor, so no record is there period. But it is NOT a GUN issue.
Do you include these people? " George Washington, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, Alexander Hamilton, James Monroe and, of course, Benjamin Franklin."??
They fought against oppresion... So do 'We The People'!! | |
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 Witty Enough
Posts: 2954
Location: CTX | jkrm - 2015-10-02 10:34 AM As a Non-American citizen (I'm Canadian) I honestly for the life of me can not understand the continued adamant stand - that it seems the majority (not all of course) of my American friends and neighbours have (and even some Canadians) - that it is your right to buy, carry and use guns - at all costs.
As I sat this morning watching news coverage of yet another mass school shooting in the states. I realized I have honestly and sadly become numb to them. I remember vividly when Columbine happened and sitting glued to the tv and crying as I watched parents, who lost children share their stories. Then I watched again the horror of the Connecticut shooting of so many innocent little ones. I was sure after that mass killing of children views would change. But nothing has changed.
Time after time I sit and watch news coverage of these mass shootings in my neighbouring country and shake my head. I have to be honest here, as an outsider looking in I don't get it. I don't. Every time there is a mass shooting the argument begins over gun control. Again I hear it is your constitutional right to bare arms. But as was pointed out in a radio show (yes Canadian radio show) was that not written over 200 years ago when life was very different and you were in fact at war with England and that it pertained to protecting your country from invasion from other countries mainly - England. Now it seems to me that you are in fact at war with one another.
Yes I know, I know I've heard it - guns don't kill people, people kill people. However, I see people (I'll be it usually mental ill) with very easy access to guns killing people. Lots and lots of people, including very innocent youth.
I do not understand (please help me) why any average American citizen needs access to the guns that you all have access too. Why do you need assault guns that typically are meant for military.
I confess I don't know guns at all ( I'm honestly quite afraid of them). With that being said we do own guns. I couldn't tell you what they are (I'm guess some 22's and a shot gun). My husband and son's hunt and being on a farm we do need guns for the occasional time we have to humanely put an animal down or shoot a skunk or porcupine. But that's it, that's all we own.
As a Canadian I can't walk into a store tomorrow and buy a gun. I have to take a gun safety course, I have to take courses and get a license to be able to purchase a gun (that would be 22's and shot guns). If I want a pistol the regulations are very, very, very strict. I (to my knowledge) can not buy any sort of assault (I think that's what they are called- that shoot a lot at one time) rifle. And quite frankly why on earth would I need one.
As I type this my local radio talk show is again discussing another mass shooting in America. Again the host and callers are shaking their heads at the American mentality of your right to bare arms at all costs. I in Canada, just don't get it.
I'm not an Obama fan. I just don't think he is a great President however on his views on gun control needed in the U.S. I confess I agree with him.
I realize the problem isn't guns per say. The problem is larger than that, mental illness being one of them. But keeping guns out of the hands of people with mental illness needs to be looked at and if implementing some form of gun control does that and prevents these continuous mass shootings why on earth would you not be in favour of that. Yes, even at the expense of your God Given Right. Canada has forms of gun control in place. Yes I'm still able to own guns (or my husband and son's do). They have hunting guns, guns for shooting injured sick animals and I suppose if we absolutely needed, those same guns could be used to protect us or our property. Our gun laws do not prevent honest hard working law abiding citizens from owning guns but they do slow down a mentally ill person from being able to walk into a store today from buying a gun that can shoot a lot of people in a short amount of time, then going out and using it.
I do agree the biggest issue is obviously mental health and that's a whole other can of worms but I personally believe figuring out how to keep all your guns out of the hands of people with mental health issues would be a start.
I'm not meaning to start a war here. I'm just sharing my point of view from an outsider looking in, watching the news and not understanding the complete gun mentality that American's seem to have. And I confess I have many fellow Canadian that share the same views.
Hope we can keep this post civil. I just am trying to understand how implementing some gun control laws will affect negatively on your day to day life.
I have to disagree with you here, the problem is not the mental health. The biggest problem is that we have become too soft. Kids need to learn right and wrong from an early age on (age 2-4). But instead we "talk" to them, need to explain things.... How about we start parenting again! Most of these killings are done by late teens, early twenty somethings...
Also, there are a lot of meds being given to kids that act out. Now I am not saying ADHD, bipolar and so on don't exist, but I feel these meds are being prescribed a lot more than actually needed. Spend time with your kids, don't give them everything they think they are entitled too. just because they throw a hissy fit...
Now I grew up in Europe (the Netherlands) and they have very strict weapon laws there, but guess what, people still manage to get guns and kill others. ( in 2011 a guy shot 6 people and wounded 17 in a shopping mall). I am glad we can have weapons here, I firmly believe in the right to bear arms. We own several different ones. But after 16 years Air Force I am very comfortable around them. I am trained to use automatic (assault) weapons, do I want one, nope. Don't see the need. I can protect myself plenty with a semi-automatic. But having shot them, I can see why some people want to have them.
So, as long as there are people around there will be killings. And they will get a weapon somehow, if they really want to. But we need to teach kids there are consequenses to their actions.
Also, stop gloryfying those idiots! Don't give them their 15 minutes of fame. Clearly that was one thing that this guy was talking about.
JMHO.
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