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 BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
  
Location: Bastrop, Texas | FinneyQuarterHorses - 2015-10-15 8:56 AM
"Republicans hate big Government unless it's for something they want."
Republicans and BHW political junkies love to invoke the specter of Hitler when referencing our Democratic President, but apparently government mandated birth control for poor people is acceptable. Huh!
www.newsok.com (The Daily Oklahoman) ran a story this morning that 85,000 jobs are unfilled in Oklahoma because there are not enough qualified applicants in healthcare, IT, finance and truck driving. This following a story yesterday that companies are unwilling to move there for that very reason. Uneducated people in the state are uneducated for various reasons, like only 30% of eighth graders are proficient in math, but also because the unafforability of college for them. Knowing that, all the political representatives, voted in office in arguably the redist state in the union, don't want free community college that would enable most of the 85,000 jobs to be filled by then tax paying contributors to society.
Sometimes "free stuff" is for the common good, and ultimately isn't "free".
I'll tell you my philosophy about college and education after high school.
I told my 3 kids that they are not OWED anything, and that includes a college education. Even though I could afford to pay for their college, I only paid for limited, bare living expenses and tuition. I made them take out loans for the rest, which was actually pretty small. They understood that if I was going to pay for their education, I expected a return on that "investment", namely a B average, minimum. If they didn't meet that requirement they had to figure it out on their own. Both of my oldest two fell short midway through college, and they had to learn the hard way. They worked in bars and restaurants. My oldest is a VP for Wells Fargo in Mpls, and my son is an accountant. Both are doing very well and are quite self-reliant. My youngest learned from her observations, so I am paying for her school. She will graduate in the spring with a bachelors in nursing.
I think too many people think that a college degree is critical. I don't think that is true at all. For many, trade schools make much more sense.
The world is full of educated derelicts. | |
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 Serious Snap Trapper
Posts: 4275
Location: In The Snow, AZ | I was talking to my mom about this yesterday. Hubby and I would love to have another child. We have a 6 year old, beautiful, intelligent, sweetheart. And she is amazing. But I feel awful for the world she has to be brought up in. Next year we are going to enroll her in a Christian based school. We have had many issues in public school including boys exposing themselves to her and others telling her to undress. And that's not even having to do with who's running the government. I'm just saddened at the world we have and what my little girl is, has and will experience in her years. And that's why I won't have another. I would already be doing them an injustice just by giving birth. | |
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  Fact Checker
Posts: 16575
 
Location: Displaced Iowegian | mlh0972 - 2015-10-15 9:27 AM Barnmom - 2015-10-15 9:16 AM FinneyQuarterHorses - 2015-10-15 8:56 AM "Republicans hate big Government unless it's for something they want." Republicans and BHW political junkies love to invoke the specter of Hitler when referencing our Democratic President, but apparently government mandated birth control for poor people is acceptable. Huh! www.newsok.com (The Daily Oklahoman) ran a story this morning that 85,000 jobs are unfilled in Oklahoma because there are not enough qualified applicants in healthcare, IT, finance and truck driving. This following a story yesterday that companies are unwilling to move there for that very reason. Uneducated people in the state are uneducated for various reasons, like only 30% of eighth graders are proficient in math, but also because the unafforability of college for them. Knowing that, all the political representatives, voted in office in arguably the redist state in the union, don't want free community college that would enable most of the 85,000 jobs to be filled by then tax paying contributors to society. Sometimes "free stuff" is for the common good, and ultimately isn't "free". Sounds great! Of course those receiving free college would have to do well enough to pass classes and graduate, then have the drive to go out and find a job. Those that want better for themselves will find a way, those that want to mooch off the system will find a way also. We need to make it easier for those that want to do for themselves and harder for those that don't, more free stuff is NOT the answer!
I know of three farms within a half a mile that have a job opening right now, salary works out to around $10 an hour and the farms provide a place to live, all bills paid and we can't find anyone to work. The problem isn't lack of education, it is lack of desire to get off your a$$ and do something to better yourself.
"You can't helps those, who can not help themselves!"
This needs to read ......... who WON'T help themselves ! | |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 628
Location: Missouri | NJJ - 2015-10-15 10:03 AM
mlh0972 - 2015-10-15 9:27 AM Barnmom - 2015-10-15 9:16 AM FinneyQuarterHorses - 2015-10-15 8:56 AM "Republicans hate big Government unless it's for something they want." Republicans and BHW political junkies love to invoke the specter of Hitler when referencing our Democratic President, but apparently government mandated birth control for poor people is acceptable. Huh! www.newsok.com (The Daily Oklahoman) ran a story this morning that 85,000 jobs are unfilled in Oklahoma because there are not enough qualified applicants in healthcare, IT, finance and truck driving. This following a story yesterday that companies are unwilling to move there for that very reason. Uneducated people in the state are uneducated for various reasons, like only 30% of eighth graders are proficient in math, but also because the unafforability of college for them. Knowing that, all the political representatives, voted in office in arguably the redist state in the union, don't want free community college that would enable most of the 85,000 jobs to be filled by then tax paying contributors to society. Sometimes "free stuff" is for the common good, and ultimately isn't "free". Sounds great! Of course those receiving free college would have to do well enough to pass classes and graduate, then have the drive to go out and find a job. Those that want better for themselves will find a way, those that want to mooch off the system will find a way also. We need to make it easier for those that want to do for themselves and harder for those that don't, more free stuff is NOT the answer!
I know of three farms within a half a mile that have a job opening right now, salary works out to around $10 an hour and the farms provide a place to live, all bills paid and we can't find anyone to work. The problem isn't lack of education, it is lack of desire to get off your a$$ and do something to better yourself.
 "You can't helps those, who can not help themselves!"
"YOU CAN NOT HELP THOSE, WHO WON'T HELP THEMSELVES!!"
The next political ad slogan  | |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | Ideally the best way that jobs are filled with the best, most qualified people is through a free and robust open market. Competition works both ways and market forces dictate better pay through competition. It's really basic Econ 101. $10/hour paying jobs isn't all that attractive to people who are doing just as well remaining unemployed, sometimes even better. That means companies have to essentially compete with the federal government. They have to hike those hourly wages up to maybe $12-15/hour to compete with the free government "benefits". That results in higher prices for goods and services......and that's how the cycle continues. The biggest impediment to a prosperous, free market system is the federal government.
Politicians on both sides don't seem to pay attention to those inconvenient truths. | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 628
Location: Missouri | Bear - 2015-10-15 10:22 AM
Ideally the best way that jobs are filled with the best, most qualified people is through a free and robust open market. Competition works both ways and market forces dictate better pay through competition. It's really basic Econ 101. $10/hour paying jobs isn't all that attractive to people who are doing just as well remaining unemployed, sometimes even better. That means companies have to essentially compete with the federal government. They have to hike those hourly wages up to maybe $12-15/hour to compete with the free government "benefits". That results in higher prices for goods and services......and that's how the cycle continues. The biggest impediment to a prosperous, free market system is the federal government.
Politicians on both sides don't seem to pay attention to those inconvenient truths.
But we should just raise minimum wage to $15 an hour! That would solve all the worlds problems and everyone would be soooo happy. That wouldn't cause prices on everything to go up.  | |
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 Hog Tie My Mojo
Posts: 4847
Location: Opelousas, LA | Bear - 2015-10-15 10:22 AM Ideally the best way that jobs are filled with the best, most qualified people is through a free and robust open market. Competition works both ways and market forces dictate better pay through competition. It's really basic Econ 101. $10/hour paying jobs isn't all that attractive to people who are doing just as well remaining unemployed, sometimes even better. That means companies have to essentially compete with the federal government. They have to hike those hourly wages up to maybe $12-15/hour to compete with the free government "benefits". That results in higher prices for goods and services......and that's how the cycle continues. The biggest impediment to a prosperous, free market system is the federal government. Politicians on both sides don't seem to pay attention to those inconvenient truths.
Yep, you are correct, and if your business won't support that wage then you do it all yourself or close up shop. Heck of a way to grow the economy.
One more thing, don't we already have an option for those that can't afford college? I believe it was called the GI Bill, or did that get cut along with all the other military cuts? | |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 434
Location: Northwest Florida | Barnmom - 2015-10-15 10:40 AM
Bear - 2015-10-15 10:22 AM Ideally the best way that jobs are filled with the best, most qualified people is through a free and robust open market. Competition works both ways and market forces dictate better pay through competition. It's really basic Econ 101. $10/hour paying jobs isn't all that attractive to people who are doing just as well remaining unemployed, sometimes even better. That means companies have to essentially compete with the federal government. They have to hike those hourly wages up to maybe $12-15/hour to compete with the free government "benefits". That results in higher prices for goods and services......and that's how the cycle continues. The biggest impediment to a prosperous, free market system is the federal government. Politicians on both sides don't seem to pay attention to those inconvenient truths.
 Yep, you are correct, and if your business won't support that wage then you do it all yourself or close up shop.  Heck of a way to grow the economy.
One more thing, don't we already have an option for those that can't afford college? I believe it was called the GI Bill, or did that get cut along with all the other military cuts?
The GI Bill is still around, but it's for service members and can be transferred to their immediate family (child or spouse). It's not exactly for people who can't afford college. You must be a service member, child or spouse. This is how I went to college- I joined the Army Reserves and worked for my education! I did not qualify for any federal assistance due to my father's income. My parents could have afforded it no problem, but told me just as some of you have mentioned, "You are not owed anything". I'm thankful that I had to fund my own education because I can take a lot more pride in it that way. | |
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Hog Tie My Mojo
Posts: 4847
Location: Opelousas, LA | BigStarBound - 2015-10-15 10:48 AM Barnmom - 2015-10-15 10:40 AM Bear - 2015-10-15 10:22 AM Ideally the best way that jobs are filled with the best, most qualified people is through a free and robust open market. Competition works both ways and market forces dictate better pay through competition. It's really basic Econ 101. $10/hour paying jobs isn't all that attractive to people who are doing just as well remaining unemployed, sometimes even better. That means companies have to essentially compete with the federal government. They have to hike those hourly wages up to maybe $12-15/hour to compete with the free government "benefits". That results in higher prices for goods and services......and that's how the cycle continues. The biggest impediment to a prosperous, free market system is the federal government. Politicians on both sides don't seem to pay attention to those inconvenient truths. Yep, you are correct, and if your business won't support that wage then you do it all yourself or close up shop. Heck of a way to grow the economy.
One more thing, don't we already have an option for those that can't afford college? I believe it was called the GI Bill, or did that get cut along with all the other military cuts? The GI Bill is still around, but it's for service members and can be transferred to their immediate family (child or spouse ). It's not exactly for people who can't afford college. You must be a service member, child or spouse. This is how I went to college- I joined the Army Reserves and worked for my education! I did not qualify for any federal assistance due to my father's income. My parents could have afforded it no problem, but told me just as some of you have mentioned, "You are not owed anything". I'm thankful that I had to fund my own education because I can take a lot more pride in it that way.
Exactly, you worked for your education by becoming a member of the armed services. Something anyone with some drive and initiative can do also, then you will value your schooling because you earned it. Good for you and thank you for your service! | |
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 Hugs to You
Posts: 7551
Location: In The Land of Cotton | Bear - 2015-10-15 11:22 AM Ideally the best way that jobs are filled with the best, most qualified people is through a free and robust open market. Competition works both ways and market forces dictate better pay through competition. It's really basic Econ 101. $10/hour paying jobs isn't all that attractive to people who are doing just as well remaining unemployed, sometimes even better. That means companies have to essentially compete with the federal government. They have to hike those hourly wages up to maybe $12-15/hour to compete with the free government "benefits". That results in higher prices for goods and services......and that's how the cycle continues. The biggest impediment to a prosperous, free market system is the federal government. Politicians on both sides don't seem to pay attention to those inconvenient truths.
Even the amount that you list won't work with a society that doesn't want to. In our area at least. I am in HR. I do the hiring and firing. We build bridges. Hard work. Our minimum wage is $11./hr starting pay. After 90 days. 50 cent raise. Yearly 5%. Yearly bonuses. 3% match on 401K, and safe harbor contribution. $9.58/wk health insurance for employee. Guess what? We can't find workers. Because we can't compete with the federal government and all the freebies that they give out. The community of "they" that choose not to work make more sitting at home collecting free food, housing, health care then going to work. They get to sleep in, do no labor, don't have to drive to a job, etc. and still have all their needs met. They don't have to go to school and finish. Nada, nothing. | |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | It all boils down to a divided, increasingly dysfunctional society.
On the one hand, you have independent, rugged individualists who make their way in this world and do not expect society or government to take care of them. On the other hand you have a growing sect that feels owed and entitled. It is not because they are inherently this way, rather, it is akin to addiction. Once you've tasted the fruits of the government tit, it is very difficult to rid yourself of all the benefits and trappings. Like anything addicting......doing nothing and getting paid for it feels good. Even then many people who are trapped realize, deep down inside, that they are hooked and can't break free. If you want proof of how this works, look no further than our Indian reservations, where an entire culture of talented people has been neutered and rendered totally dependent on government.
This is how politicians secure power. They battle between themselves over who can offer improved goods and services....."free". It's free alright....all you need is to offer up your pride and your soul.
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"Heck's Coming With Me"
Posts: 10797
Location: Kansas | Bear - 2015-10-15 11:15 AM It all boils down to a divided, increasingly dysfunctional society. On the one hand, you have independent, rugged individualists who make their way in this world and do not expect society or government to take care of them. On the other hand you have a growing sect that feels owed and entitled. It is not because they are inherently this way, rather, it is akin to addiction. Once you've tasted the fruits of the government tit, it is very difficult to rid yourself of all the benefits and trappings. Like anything addicting......doing nothing and getting paid for it feels good. Even then many people who are trapped realize, deep down inside, that they are hooked and can't break free. If you want proof of how this works, look no further than our Indian reservations, where an entire culture of talented people has been neutered and rendered totally dependent on government. This is how politicians secure power. They battle between themselves over who can offer improved goods and services....."free". It's free alright....all you need is to offer up your pride and your soul.
It's called a "welfare mentality" and hands itself down to generation after generation.......and whatever happened to that old "working my way through college" thing that was actually a happy song back in the olden days.
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 Expert
Posts: 1898
| Barnmom - 2015-10-15 10:59 AM
BigStarBound - 2015-10-15 10:48 AM Barnmom - 2015-10-15 10:40 AM Bear - 2015-10-15 10:22 AM Ideally the best way that jobs are filled with the best, most qualified people is through a free and robust open market. Competition works both ways and market forces dictate better pay through competition. It's really basic Econ 101. $10/hour paying jobs isn't all that attractive to people who are doing just as well remaining unemployed, sometimes even better. That means companies have to essentially compete with the federal government. They have to hike those hourly wages up to maybe $12-15/hour to compete with the free government "benefits". That results in higher prices for goods and services......and that's how the cycle continues. The biggest impediment to a prosperous, free market system is the federal government. Politicians on both sides don't seem to pay attention to those inconvenient truths.  Yep, you are correct, and if your business won't support that wage then you do it all yourself or close up shop.  Heck of a way to grow the economy.
One more thing, don't we already have an option for those that can't afford college? I believe it was called the GI Bill, or did that get cut along with all the other military cuts? The GI Bill is still around, but it's for service members and can be transferred to their immediate family (child or spouse ). It's not exactly for people who can't afford college. You must be a service member, child or spouse. This is how I went to college- I joined the Army Reserves and worked for my education! I did not qualify for any federal assistance due to my father's income. My parents could have afforded it no problem, but told me just as some of you have mentioned, "You are not owed anything". I'm thankful that I had to fund my own education because I can take a lot more pride in it that way.
Just a thought, not everyone who can not afford college is suitable for the armed forces. There are weak minded, vulnerable and easily manipulated young adults who cannot handle the rigors of the military. They become a risk to their unit.
I had a student who was like this. He didn't do well in school, couldn't test, couldn't handle pressure. He was easily broken down. His plan was to join the Marines. I usually support anyone who wants to join but this is the first kid I desperately pleaded with to look into other options. He said it was his only one because his parents couldn't afford to send him to a trade school and he did not qualify for any type grants do to his father's income. This kid was all the things I listed above.
He ended up breaking his leg and having to have a rod put in his femur three months (I found it to be a blessing from God more than accident) before graduation and the Marines wouldn't take him any longer. Thank goodness. But now because he has no education, no skill really to speak of, he bounces from minimum wage to minimum wage job and still lives at home with his parents. He is doing his best but cannot afford to move out and be on his own. His parents require him to pay rent, buy groceries and contribute to the other household bills. They are doing their best to get him ready for life on his own. I hope someday he will be able to develop skills for a job that will sustain him.
ETA: I am not on board the free tuition for all wagon but I do feel to better our society there has to be programs in place to help people like this.
Edited by cyount2009 2015-10-15 12:19 PM
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | cyount2009 - 2015-10-15 12:10 PM
Barnmom - 2015-10-15 10:59 AM
BigStarBound - 2015-10-15 10:48 AM Barnmom - 2015-10-15 10:40 AM Bear - 2015-10-15 10:22 AM Ideally the best way that jobs are filled with the best, most qualified people is through a free and robust open market. Competition works both ways and market forces dictate better pay through competition. It's really basic Econ 101. $10/hour paying jobs isn't all that attractive to people who are doing just as well remaining unemployed, sometimes even better. That means companies have to essentially compete with the federal government. They have to hike those hourly wages up to maybe $12-15/hour to compete with the free government "benefits". That results in higher prices for goods and services......and that's how the cycle continues. The biggest impediment to a prosperous, free market system is the federal government. Politicians on both sides don't seem to pay attention to those inconvenient truths.  Yep, you are correct, and if your business won't support that wage then you do it all yourself or close up shop.  Heck of a way to grow the economy.
One more thing, don't we already have an option for those that can't afford college? I believe it was called the GI Bill, or did that get cut along with all the other military cuts? The GI Bill is still around, but it's for service members and can be transferred to their immediate family (child or spouse ). It's not exactly for people who can't afford college. You must be a service member, child or spouse. This is how I went to college- I joined the Army Reserves and worked for my education! I did not qualify for any federal assistance due to my father's income. My parents could have afforded it no problem, but told me just as some of you have mentioned, "You are not owed anything". I'm thankful that I had to fund my own education because I can take a lot more pride in it that way.
Just a thought, not everyone who can not afford college is suitable for the armed forces. There are weak minded, vulnerable and easily manipulated young adults who cannot handle the rigors of the military. They become a risk to their unit.
I had a student who was like this. He didn't do well in school, couldn't test, couldn't handle pressure. He was easily broken down. His plan was to join the Marines. I usually support anyone who wants to join but this is the first kid I desperately pleaded with to look into other options. He said it was his only one because his parents couldn't afford to send him to a trade school and he did not qualify for any type grants do to his father's income. This kid was all the things I listed above.
He ended up breaking his leg and having to have a rod put in his femur three months (I found it to be a blessing from God more than accident ) before graduation and the Marines wouldn't take him any longer. Thank goodness. But now because he has no education, no skill really to speak of, he bounces from minimum wage to minimum wage job and still lives at home with his parents. He is doing his best but cannot afford to move out and be on his own. His parents require him to pay rent, buy groceries and contribute to the other household bills. They are doing their best to get him ready for life on his own. I hope someday he will be able to develop skills for a job that will sustain him.
ETA: I am not on board the free tuition for all wagon but I do feel to better our society there has to be programs in place to help people like this.
Tell me, which "program" will help this kid? It sounds like he can't handle any form of structured education, and is doomed to a life of menial labor.
If he doesn't like his role in life, he will hopefully eventually be motivated to better himself, either by taking night classes, or by seeking out a niche.
Adversity is a powerful motivator and teaching tool. If he can't afford night classes, then he will work more so he can eventually learn a trade or pursue a degree. There are loans available as well.
He needs to watch the movie, "In Search of Happyness".
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Expert
Posts: 1898
| Bear - 2015-10-15 12:57 PM
cyount2009 - 2015-10-15 12:10 PM
Barnmom - 2015-10-15 10:59 AM
BigStarBound - 2015-10-15 10:48 AM Barnmom - 2015-10-15 10:40 AM Bear - 2015-10-15 10:22 AM Ideally the best way that jobs are filled with the best, most qualified people is through a free and robust open market. Competition works both ways and market forces dictate better pay through competition. It's really basic Econ 101. $10/hour paying jobs isn't all that attractive to people who are doing just as well remaining unemployed, sometimes even better. That means companies have to essentially compete with the federal government. They have to hike those hourly wages up to maybe $12-15/hour to compete with the free government "benefits". That results in higher prices for goods and services......and that's how the cycle continues. The biggest impediment to a prosperous, free market system is the federal government. Politicians on both sides don't seem to pay attention to those inconvenient truths.  Yep, you are correct, and if your business won't support that wage then you do it all yourself or close up shop.  Heck of a way to grow the economy.
One more thing, don't we already have an option for those that can't afford college? I believe it was called the GI Bill, or did that get cut along with all the other military cuts? The GI Bill is still around, but it's for service members and can be transferred to their immediate family (child or spouse ). It's not exactly for people who can't afford college. You must be a service member, child or spouse. This is how I went to college- I joined the Army Reserves and worked for my education! I did not qualify for any federal assistance due to my father's income. My parents could have afforded it no problem, but told me just as some of you have mentioned, "You are not owed anything". I'm thankful that I had to fund my own education because I can take a lot more pride in it that way.
Just a thought, not everyone who can not afford college is suitable for the armed forces. There are weak minded, vulnerable and easily manipulated young adults who cannot handle the rigors of the military. They become a risk to their unit.
I had a student who was like this. He didn't do well in school, couldn't test, couldn't handle pressure. He was easily broken down. His plan was to join the Marines. I usually support anyone who wants to join but this is the first kid I desperately pleaded with to look into other options. He said it was his only one because his parents couldn't afford to send him to a trade school and he did not qualify for any type grants do to his father's income. This kid was all the things I listed above.
He ended up breaking his leg and having to have a rod put in his femur three months (I found it to be a blessing from God more than accident ) before graduation and the Marines wouldn't take him any longer. Thank goodness. But now because he has no education, no skill really to speak of, he bounces from minimum wage to minimum wage job and still lives at home with his parents. He is doing his best but cannot afford to move out and be on his own. His parents require him to pay rent, buy groceries and contribute to the other household bills. They are doing their best to get him ready for life on his own. I hope someday he will be able to develop skills for a job that will sustain him.
ETA: I am not on board the free tuition for all wagon but I do feel to better our society there has to be programs in place to help people like this.
Tell me, which "program" will help this kid? It sounds like he can't handle any form of structured education, and is doomed to a life of menial labor.
If he doesn't like his role in life, he will hopefully eventually be motivated to better himself, either by taking night classes, or by seeking out a niche.
Adversity is a powerful motivator and teaching tool. If he can't afford night classes, then he will work more so he can eventually learn a trade or pursue a degree. There are loans available as well.
He needs to watch the movie, "In Search of Happyness".
In all honesty he'll probably end up in the welfare system eventually. Which is sad but probably true. | |
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 Jr. Detective
Location: Beggs, OK | Bear - 2015-10-15 12:57 PM cyount2009 - 2015-10-15 12:10 PM Barnmom - 2015-10-15 10:59 AM BigStarBound - 2015-10-15 10:48 AM Barnmom - 2015-10-15 10:40 AM Bear - 2015-10-15 10:22 AM Ideally the best way that jobs are filled with the best, most qualified people is through a free and robust open market. Competition works both ways and market forces dictate better pay through competition. It's really basic Econ 101. $10/hour paying jobs isn't all that attractive to people who are doing just as well remaining unemployed, sometimes even better. That means companies have to essentially compete with the federal government. They have to hike those hourly wages up to maybe $12-15/hour to compete with the free government "benefits". That results in higher prices for goods and services......and that's how the cycle continues. The biggest impediment to a prosperous, free market system is the federal government. Politicians on both sides don't seem to pay attention to those inconvenient truths. Yep, you are correct, and if your business won't support that wage then you do it all yourself or close up shop. Heck of a way to grow the economy.
One more thing, don't we already have an option for those that can't afford college? I believe it was called the GI Bill, or did that get cut along with all the other military cuts? The GI Bill is still around, but it's for service members and can be transferred to their immediate family (child or spouse ). It's not exactly for people who can't afford college. You must be a service member, child or spouse. This is how I went to college- I joined the Army Reserves and worked for my education! I did not qualify for any federal assistance due to my father's income. My parents could have afforded it no problem, but told me just as some of you have mentioned, "You are not owed anything". I'm thankful that I had to fund my own education because I can take a lot more pride in it that way. Just a thought, not everyone who can not afford college is suitable for the armed forces. There are weak minded, vulnerable and easily manipulated young adults who cannot handle the rigors of the military. They become a risk to their unit. I had a student who was like this. He didn't do well in school, couldn't test, couldn't handle pressure. He was easily broken down. His plan was to join the Marines. I usually support anyone who wants to join but this is the first kid I desperately pleaded with to look into other options. He said it was his only one because his parents couldn't afford to send him to a trade school and he did not qualify for any type grants do to his father's income. This kid was all the things I listed above. He ended up breaking his leg and having to have a rod put in his femur three months (I found it to be a blessing from God more than accident ) before graduation and the Marines wouldn't take him any longer. Thank goodness. But now because he has no education, no skill really to speak of, he bounces from minimum wage to minimum wage job and still lives at home with his parents. He is doing his best but cannot afford to move out and be on his own. His parents require him to pay rent, buy groceries and contribute to the other household bills. They are doing their best to get him ready for life on his own. I hope someday he will be able to develop skills for a job that will sustain him. ETA: I am not on board the free tuition for all wagon but I do feel to better our society there has to be programs in place to help people like this. Tell me, which "program" will help this kid? It sounds like he can't handle any form of structured education, and is doomed to a life of menial labor. If he doesn't like his role in life, he will hopefully eventually be motivated to better himself, either by taking night classes, or by seeking out a niche. Adversity is a powerful motivator and teaching tool. If he can't afford night classes, then he will work more so he can eventually learn a trade or pursue a degree. There are loans available as well. He needs to watch the movie, "In Search of Happyness".
The movie is The Pursuit of Happyness. My oldest daughter and I watched it recently. Amazing film, with an incredible message. | |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | Yes, that's it. Thanks! Great message. Depressing....until the very end. | |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | cyount2009 - 2015-10-15 1:02 PM
Bear - 2015-10-15 12:57 PM
cyount2009 - 2015-10-15 12:10 PM
Barnmom - 2015-10-15 10:59 AM
BigStarBound - 2015-10-15 10:48 AM Barnmom - 2015-10-15 10:40 AM Bear - 2015-10-15 10:22 AM Ideally the best way that jobs are filled with the best, most qualified people is through a free and robust open market. Competition works both ways and market forces dictate better pay through competition. It's really basic Econ 101. $10/hour paying jobs isn't all that attractive to people who are doing just as well remaining unemployed, sometimes even better. That means companies have to essentially compete with the federal government. They have to hike those hourly wages up to maybe $12-15/hour to compete with the free government "benefits". That results in higher prices for goods and services......and that's how the cycle continues. The biggest impediment to a prosperous, free market system is the federal government. Politicians on both sides don't seem to pay attention to those inconvenient truths.  Yep, you are correct, and if your business won't support that wage then you do it all yourself or close up shop.  Heck of a way to grow the economy.
One more thing, don't we already have an option for those that can't afford college? I believe it was called the GI Bill, or did that get cut along with all the other military cuts? The GI Bill is still around, but it's for service members and can be transferred to their immediate family (child or spouse ). It's not exactly for people who can't afford college. You must be a service member, child or spouse. This is how I went to college- I joined the Army Reserves and worked for my education! I did not qualify for any federal assistance due to my father's income. My parents could have afforded it no problem, but told me just as some of you have mentioned, "You are not owed anything". I'm thankful that I had to fund my own education because I can take a lot more pride in it that way.
Just a thought, not everyone who can not afford college is suitable for the armed forces. There are weak minded, vulnerable and easily manipulated young adults who cannot handle the rigors of the military. They become a risk to their unit.
I had a student who was like this. He didn't do well in school, couldn't test, couldn't handle pressure. He was easily broken down. His plan was to join the Marines. I usually support anyone who wants to join but this is the first kid I desperately pleaded with to look into other options. He said it was his only one because his parents couldn't afford to send him to a trade school and he did not qualify for any type grants do to his father's income. This kid was all the things I listed above.
He ended up breaking his leg and having to have a rod put in his femur three months (I found it to be a blessing from God more than accident ) before graduation and the Marines wouldn't take him any longer. Thank goodness. But now because he has no education, no skill really to speak of, he bounces from minimum wage to minimum wage job and still lives at home with his parents. He is doing his best but cannot afford to move out and be on his own. His parents require him to pay rent, buy groceries and contribute to the other household bills. They are doing their best to get him ready for life on his own. I hope someday he will be able to develop skills for a job that will sustain him.
ETA: I am not on board the free tuition for all wagon but I do feel to better our society there has to be programs in place to help people like this.
Tell me, which "program" will help this kid? It sounds like he can't handle any form of structured education, and is doomed to a life of menial labor.
If he doesn't like his role in life, he will hopefully eventually be motivated to better himself, either by taking night classes, or by seeking out a niche.
Adversity is a powerful motivator and teaching tool. If he can't afford night classes, then he will work more so he can eventually learn a trade or pursue a degree. There are loans available as well.
He needs to watch the movie, "In Search of Happyness".
In all honesty he'll probably end up in the welfare system eventually. Which is sad but probably true.
Really, there's no reason why he should be doomed to be on the welfare.
Physically, he is fine. I don't see anything that suggest he has a borderline low IQ, but even then he doesn't have to be doomed.
"Necessity is the Mother of Invention" is a saying that ought to apply to people like this. Some people like this have nothing.....except their dignity.
If they regard their dignity as something worth salvaging, that can be powerful motivator. Surrendering to a life of government assistance will take away all these people have left. | |
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Expert
Posts: 1898
| Bear - 2015-10-15 1:30 PM
cyount2009 - 2015-10-15 1:02 PM
Bear - 2015-10-15 12:57 PM
cyount2009 - 2015-10-15 12:10 PM
Barnmom - 2015-10-15 10:59 AM
BigStarBound - 2015-10-15 10:48 AM Barnmom - 2015-10-15 10:40 AM Bear - 2015-10-15 10:22 AM Ideally the best way that jobs are filled with the best, most qualified people is through a free and robust open market. Competition works both ways and market forces dictate better pay through competition. It's really basic Econ 101. $10/hour paying jobs isn't all that attractive to people who are doing just as well remaining unemployed, sometimes even better. That means companies have to essentially compete with the federal government. They have to hike those hourly wages up to maybe $12-15/hour to compete with the free government "benefits". That results in higher prices for goods and services......and that's how the cycle continues. The biggest impediment to a prosperous, free market system is the federal government. Politicians on both sides don't seem to pay attention to those inconvenient truths.  Yep, you are correct, and if your business won't support that wage then you do it all yourself or close up shop.  Heck of a way to grow the economy.
One more thing, don't we already have an option for those that can't afford college? I believe it was called the GI Bill, or did that get cut along with all the other military cuts? The GI Bill is still around, but it's for service members and can be transferred to their immediate family (child or spouse ). It's not exactly for people who can't afford college. You must be a service member, child or spouse. This is how I went to college- I joined the Army Reserves and worked for my education! I did not qualify for any federal assistance due to my father's income. My parents could have afforded it no problem, but told me just as some of you have mentioned, "You are not owed anything". I'm thankful that I had to fund my own education because I can take a lot more pride in it that way.
Just a thought, not everyone who can not afford college is suitable for the armed forces. There are weak minded, vulnerable and easily manipulated young adults who cannot handle the rigors of the military. They become a risk to their unit.
I had a student who was like this. He didn't do well in school, couldn't test, couldn't handle pressure. He was easily broken down. His plan was to join the Marines. I usually support anyone who wants to join but this is the first kid I desperately pleaded with to look into other options. He said it was his only one because his parents couldn't afford to send him to a trade school and he did not qualify for any type grants do to his father's income. This kid was all the things I listed above.
He ended up breaking his leg and having to have a rod put in his femur three months (I found it to be a blessing from God more than accident ) before graduation and the Marines wouldn't take him any longer. Thank goodness. But now because he has no education, no skill really to speak of, he bounces from minimum wage to minimum wage job and still lives at home with his parents. He is doing his best but cannot afford to move out and be on his own. His parents require him to pay rent, buy groceries and contribute to the other household bills. They are doing their best to get him ready for life on his own. I hope someday he will be able to develop skills for a job that will sustain him.
ETA: I am not on board the free tuition for all wagon but I do feel to better our society there has to be programs in place to help people like this.
Tell me, which "program" will help this kid? It sounds like he can't handle any form of structured education, and is doomed to a life of menial labor.
If he doesn't like his role in life, he will hopefully eventually be motivated to better himself, either by taking night classes, or by seeking out a niche.
Adversity is a powerful motivator and teaching tool. If he can't afford night classes, then he will work more so he can eventually learn a trade or pursue a degree. There are loans available as well.
He needs to watch the movie, "In Search of Happyness".
In all honesty he'll probably end up in the welfare system eventually. Which is sad but probably true.
Really, there's no reason why he should be doomed to be on the welfare.
Physically, he is fine. I don't see anything that suggest he has a borderline low IQ, but even then he doesn't have to be doomed.
"Necessity is the Mother of Invention" is a saying that ought to apply to people like this. Some people like this have nothing.....except their dignity.
If they regard their dignity as something worth salvaging, that can be powerful motivator. Surrendering to a life of government assistance will take away all these people have left.
Don't be so quick to assume. He was born 14 weeks premature. This kid borders the autism spectrum, and I don't mean the super brilliant, high functioning side either. We were able to identify specific learning disabilities while he was in school but the help he got does not carry over to real life.
He is really good at carpentry, really good, but there isn't anywhere locally that he can apprentice at. He has either been asked not to come back or completely denied. He is hard to be around, kind of like nails on a chalk board. He tries so hard to be personable but it's more annoying than anything else.
We are very rural so it would be exceptionally hard for him to do night school during the week. I think the closest JC is almost 100 miles away, and in the winter it would be almost impossible for him to get to it. He tried online courses but didn't have the planning skills to be successful at that.
You are right about his dignity, that is about all he possesses other than his carpentry skills.
Edited to fix my terrible spelling
Edited by cyount2009 2015-10-15 1:56 PM
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | cyount2009 - 2015-10-15 1:53 PM
Bear - 2015-10-15 1:30 PM
cyount2009 - 2015-10-15 1:02 PM
Bear - 2015-10-15 12:57 PM
cyount2009 - 2015-10-15 12:10 PM
Barnmom - 2015-10-15 10:59 AM
BigStarBound - 2015-10-15 10:48 AM Barnmom - 2015-10-15 10:40 AM Bear - 2015-10-15 10:22 AM Ideally the best way that jobs are filled with the best, most qualified people is through a free and robust open market. Competition works both ways and market forces dictate better pay through competition. It's really basic Econ 101. $10/hour paying jobs isn't all that attractive to people who are doing just as well remaining unemployed, sometimes even better. That means companies have to essentially compete with the federal government. They have to hike those hourly wages up to maybe $12-15/hour to compete with the free government "benefits". That results in higher prices for goods and services......and that's how the cycle continues. The biggest impediment to a prosperous, free market system is the federal government. Politicians on both sides don't seem to pay attention to those inconvenient truths.  Yep, you are correct, and if your business won't support that wage then you do it all yourself or close up shop.  Heck of a way to grow the economy.
One more thing, don't we already have an option for those that can't afford college? I believe it was called the GI Bill, or did that get cut along with all the other military cuts? The GI Bill is still around, but it's for service members and can be transferred to their immediate family (child or spouse ). It's not exactly for people who can't afford college. You must be a service member, child or spouse. This is how I went to college- I joined the Army Reserves and worked for my education! I did not qualify for any federal assistance due to my father's income. My parents could have afforded it no problem, but told me just as some of you have mentioned, "You are not owed anything". I'm thankful that I had to fund my own education because I can take a lot more pride in it that way.
Just a thought, not everyone who can not afford college is suitable for the armed forces. There are weak minded, vulnerable and easily manipulated young adults who cannot handle the rigors of the military. They become a risk to their unit.
I had a student who was like this. He didn't do well in school, couldn't test, couldn't handle pressure. He was easily broken down. His plan was to join the Marines. I usually support anyone who wants to join but this is the first kid I desperately pleaded with to look into other options. He said it was his only one because his parents couldn't afford to send him to a trade school and he did not qualify for any type grants do to his father's income. This kid was all the things I listed above.
He ended up breaking his leg and having to have a rod put in his femur three months (I found it to be a blessing from God more than accident ) before graduation and the Marines wouldn't take him any longer. Thank goodness. But now because he has no education, no skill really to speak of, he bounces from minimum wage to minimum wage job and still lives at home with his parents. He is doing his best but cannot afford to move out and be on his own. His parents require him to pay rent, buy groceries and contribute to the other household bills. They are doing their best to get him ready for life on his own. I hope someday he will be able to develop skills for a job that will sustain him.
ETA: I am not on board the free tuition for all wagon but I do feel to better our society there has to be programs in place to help people like this.
Tell me, which "program" will help this kid? It sounds like he can't handle any form of structured education, and is doomed to a life of menial labor.
If he doesn't like his role in life, he will hopefully eventually be motivated to better himself, either by taking night classes, or by seeking out a niche.
Adversity is a powerful motivator and teaching tool. If he can't afford night classes, then he will work more so he can eventually learn a trade or pursue a degree. There are loans available as well.
He needs to watch the movie, "In Search of Happyness".
In all honesty he'll probably end up in the welfare system eventually. Which is sad but probably true.
Really, there's no reason why he should be doomed to be on the welfare.
Physically, he is fine. I don't see anything that suggest he has a borderline low IQ, but even then he doesn't have to be doomed.
"Necessity is the Mother of Invention" is a saying that ought to apply to people like this. Some people like this have nothing.....except their dignity.
If they regard their dignity as something worth salvaging, that can be powerful motivator. Surrendering to a life of government assistance will take away all these people have left.
Don't be so quick to assume. He was born 14 weeks premature. This kid borders the autism spectrum, and I don't mean the super brilliant, high functioning side either. We were able to identify specific learning disabilities while he was in school but the help he got does not carry over to real life.
He is really good at carpentry, really good, but there isn't anywhere locally that he can apprentice at. He has either been asked not to come back or completely denied. He is hard to be around, kind of like nails on a chalk board. He tries so hard to be personable but it's more annoying than anything else.
We are very rural so it would be exceptionally hard for him to do night school during the week. I think the closest JC is almost 100 miles away, and in the winter it would be almost impossible for him to get to it. He tried online courses but didn't have the planning skills to be successful at that.
You are right about his dignity, that is about all he poses other than his carpentry skills.
Well, I had no idea he is autistic, because you didn't say that part. That does pose a problem, quite possibly. Now we are in the spectrum of people who legitimately need help. To my way of thinking, his story didn't sound that way at first. Sad story.
It doesn't sound to me like college is apt to be a realistic option, but if the young man is real motivated, it can be done, I believe. It won't be easy, but it might be possible. It boils down to his ability and, most importantly, his motivation. | |
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