|
|
Hungarian Midget Woman
  
Location: Midwest | BamaCanChaser - 2015-11-25 1:21 PM barrelracr131 - 2015-11-25 12:47 PM To say that 80% of all barrels are knocked for the same reason just seems super plausible too.  And there's this...
 |
|
| |
|
 BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | Sounds like Yogi Berra, Alison. |
|
| |
|
 Best of the Badlands
Location: You never know where I will show up...... | Well believe it or not my trainer gets them riding them good in just 30 days and he doesn't like them handled a lot before he gets them. They are usually halterbroke and that's it.
Here's a 2 yr old DTF daughter he started for me last year, with 1 week. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rZ0jyKrgvg
And here she is with 25 rides. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cklRtDgLMWs
@ 30 rides he took her to the Black Hills Stock Show and used her in his horsemanship demonstration in front of a crowd of people, in the arena where they have the pro rodeo. She'd never been off the ranch prior to that.
I rode her another 2 weeks last spring, during calving, turned her out for the entire summer, been on her 30 days this fall, and she's already loping a perfect barrel pattern.
This is very typical of my trainer, and this is why I have this guy start my babies. He's fantastic.
Edited by rockinas 2015-11-25 1:55 PM
|
|
| |
|
 Born not Made
Posts: 2937
Location: North Dakota | BARRELHORSE USA - 2015-11-25 3:35 AM You have arena trainers that need the fenced in arena for their own confidence and 30 minutes in the saddle a few times a week and then you have horsemen that will work a colt and challenge him to behave and be crazier than the colt and go ride in big pastures to put some miles and wet saddle blankets on them. Rather than nag and pester them in a closed arena... A tired sweaty horse that has been ridden leisurely becomes a very well broke horse to the basics in a short period of time. .. Then it is up to the owner to learn the cues and movements the horseman has been using and to get the horse seasoned to the lights and sounds of the environment they will eventually be competing ... Too many "trainers" are overpriced and fail to do their jobs while using your money to play rodeo and go to events instead of working your horses... and going bar hopping all week long .. I am not going to send one of mine more than a 100 miles from my barn ... because I am going to go and check on progress and this scares the heck out of local "trainers" that have a habit of doing a 5 day rush job after having a horse for 60-90 days. You can't train a horse when you spend Thursday thru Sunday barrel racing or going to rodeos and resting up on Monday and spending 30 minutes on a horse on Tuesday and Wednesday!! If you want to scare the crap out of a trainer interview ... ask them if they can match this video or have horse more broke than what they see in this video ... they will turn white and find some reason NOT TO TAKE YOUR HORSE!! BECKY AMIO .. 30 RIDES ... https://youtu.be/UwgdHnbmQFk The movements and focused forward movement and individual moves like flying lead changes, side passing, and gaining the correct lead from a turnaround and then the desensitizing and getting run out of their brain by rattling a barn door, roping a barrel and opening and closing a gate are all movements that a barrel horse uses when running a pattern ... this is my favorite of any training videos I have ever seen and Becky has many videos on youtube showing the same training session where she combines the single movements she has taught ....as she repeats the single movements and adds to them they begin to flow together and get better and better and smoother and smoother ... relaxed focused repetition is a trainers best friend.... .... because these are the basics a good barrel horse must know !! (Don't get the turnarounds confused with rollbacks... notice the turnaround keeps all 4 feet moving and teaches the horse to feet up under themselves while maintaing forward movement and correct lead whether a 180 or several 360's are asked for ... ) .. rollbacks should never be taught to a barrel horse ... 80% of barrels are knocked because horse was taught rollbacks and rider miscued and horse ducked into the barrel ) HAVE FUN WITH YOUR TRAINER WITH THIS VIDEO ... you may lose a friend but so be it!! lol ...
Agree with the other poster that the video says "30 rides". It does not say how much was spent on ground work.
The trainer my mom send her Frenchman's Guy grandson colt to had him doing flying lead changes in 30 days too. He said he was a very smart colt and picked up on things really easily. Is he "broke"? Heavens no. He's quite the frisky little bugger, but he sure is SMART and my mom thinks the world of him (I just sure hope he doesn't actually dump her one of these days.....)
Not to mention, I doubt the horse in the video in question could do a flying lead change at a SLOW COLLECTED lope. She's going pretty fast there in her changes. Not saying she hasn't done a good job with a horse, but I'm not exactly singing prasises either. I saw quite a few cross-fires in there as well.... Looks like she focusing more about throwing the shoulders over, rather than having control of the hind end, like you need to have for a CORRECT flying lead change.
I had a mare one time that was 5 years old that I was doing tempe flying lead changes on her barely after 30 days of riding (she was not broke to ride when I bought her). Was I that good of a trainer? Heck no. She was just that "easy" about her flying lead changes; it was amazing. Made me look real good.
I guess I just don't see anything that phenomenal with the video.  Yeah, looks like she is doing a nice job with the horse, but we don't know how much ground work she did in preparation, and even the description says she is a GENTLE horse. I'm guessing she's got a really good mind too. She looks pretty willing to please. Those ones are always more easy to train. Its the hard-to-train horses that really put a trainer to the test.
|
|
| |
|
 Experienced Mouse Trapper
Posts: 3106
Location: North Dakota | rockinas - 2015-11-25 1:51 PM Well believe it or not my trainer gets them riding them good in just 30 days and he doesn't like them handled a lot before he gets them. They are usually halterbroke and that's it.
Here's a 2 yr old DTF daughter he started for me last year, with 1 week. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rZ0jyKrgvg
And here she is with 25 rides. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cklRtDgLMWs
@ 30 rides he took her to the Black Hills Stock Show and used her in his horsemanship demonstration in front of a crowd of people, in the arena where they have the pro rodeo. She'd never been off the ranch prior to that.
I rode her another 2 weeks last spring, during calving, turned her out for the entire summer, been on her 30 days this fall, and she's already loping a perfect barrel pattern.
This is very typical of my trainer, and this is why I have this guy start my babies. He's fantastic.
This is a pretty great youtube channel to watch-thanks for sharing.....I've heard about your colt starter but never watched him-guessing he's going to be getting some calls based off this single post. Heck of a hand! |
|
| |
|
 Undercover Amish Mafia Member
Posts: 9992
Location: Kansas | Tdove - 2015-11-25 5:49 AM There are so many things in your post BarrelHorseUSA that I take issue with. I'll just come out and say it, something doesn't add up here. I have NEVER seen a horse go from unstarted to that in 30 rides. Perhaps that is just the smartest horse there is or the truth hasn't been told. Either way to make many of the statements you have made is bothersome, although there are "some" things I do agree with you, but wouldn't be so general and condescending about. Lastly, flying lead changes should not be taught to a horse in this time frame. Any maneuver taught to a horse is a good one. To think that a horse incorrectly thinks they are being given a roll back cue and knocking over barrels is laughable. All of these things I know, and if someone came running all this stuff to us, we would not take the horse for training (it wouldn't be because of being "scared" as you say with not being able to duplicate this video!) I hope no one reads that and is mislead about good trainers, good training programs, and what to expect and how to act toward their trainer. I am not running down the trainer in this video. Looks like she does a good job with one.
 |
|
| |
|
  Twin Sister to Queen Boobie
Posts: 13315
Location: East Tennessee but who knows?! | Just curious how many trainers mentioned here have trained breeds other than stock horses that they're basing their times on. |
|
| |
|
 Elite Veteran
Posts: 851
Location: West Texas | Feels like we are swapping bass fishing stories....
The idea of training a horse really is more of a means to an end. How fast you can do this or that, or what can a horse do at 30,60,90 days really is of little importance overall. In the end, it is more of what can a horse do when he is mature and finished. All the clinician stuff, Mustang Makeover, and Road to the Horse are all cool and everything, but ultimately that was never the goal of most horsemen.
We've (meaning my wife) had horses here just do a bang up job from the beginning, some that took a little longer, and every now and then something that just doesn't want to be an honest member of society.
The first few months a horse is ridden is really to prepare them with a foundation of tools for later specialized training. Sometimes a bag of tricks doesn't do much but look impressive.
Edited by Tdove 2015-11-25 3:07 PM
|
|
| |
|
 Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | Fairweather - 2015-11-25 1:41 PM Just curious how many trainers mentioned here have trained breeds other than stock horses that they're basing their times on.
what breeds are you thinking? I have mostly worked with QH, but interned on an Arabian show place and started roughly 10 head. All were very nice horses and rode great in 30 days. I have had a handful of Morgans. 3 came from the same place and they were the most aweful mean horses to be around. Counterfeit would have been an improvement. But they were all 3 from the same lady and breeding program. Started a couple TB's, not off the track. As far as warm bloods or drafts, I have never worked with them. But I see no reason they wouldn't be able to have the same basics down as any 'ol stock horse breed. |
|
| |
|
Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | Tdove - 2015-11-25 2:00 PM Feels like we are swapping bass fishing stories.... The idea of training a horse really is more of a means to an end. How fast you can do this or that, or what can a horse do at 30,60,90 days really is of little importance overall. In the end, it is more of what can a horse do when he is mature and finished. All the clinician stuff, Mustang Makeover, and Road to the Horse are all cool and everything, but ultimately that was never the goal of most horsemen. We've (meaning my wife) had horses here just do a bang up job from the beginning, some that took a little longer, and every now and then something that just doesn't want to be an honest member of society. The first few months a horse is ridden is really to prepare them with a foundation of tools for later specialized training. Sometimes a bag of tricks doesn't do much but look impressive.
very true but to say a horse can't possibly be doing much at 30 days is crazy. It of course depends on the horse, but some of the time lines given are insane. I know absolutey no tricks to keep one from bucking, or to keep it from pulling back when tied or to give in the face etc. It was just from being ridden daily, making your rides count for something and each day getting the horse to learn something new. Going round and round in a round pen will get you nowhere and I know from sending my own colts out, that is what a lot of "trainers" do. I don't know Amy's trainer, but it seems to me that he just RIDES them, probably almost daily. That is the key to getting one riding nice in 30 days. |
|
| |
|
Best of the Badlands
Location: You never know where I will show up...... | LMS - 2015-11-25 2:14 PM This is a pretty great youtube channel to watch-thanks for sharing.....I've heard about your colt starter but never watched him-guessing he's going to be getting some calls based off this single post. Heck of a hand!
Thanks---yes, he is that good. I can ride easily behind him.
He's got a 2+ year waiting list to get colts into his program. I usually send him 4-5 a year. |
|
| |
|
Elite Veteran
Posts: 851
Location: West Texas | I am pretty familiar with what can be expected out of one. In the beginning of every new area of training, I firmly believe that less is more. This is really true with breaking. Another example is I train rope horses. Most people will do more with one in the beginning than me, but what really matters is not the first couple of months. Less is more....it is where the foundation is laid.
A horse is only as good as the foundation. Merely riding doesn't accomplish anything, only training and the quality thereof. I've seen and known countless horses that received too much training as well. It's a complicated matter for sure.
Edited by Tdove 2015-11-25 3:56 PM
|
|
| |
|
Defense Attorney for The Horse
Location: Claremore, OK | Fairweather - 2015-11-25 2:41 PM
Just curious how many trainers mentioned here have trained breeds other than stock horses that they're basing their times on.
I've worked with Arabs, tb, Warmbloods, Gypsy Vanners, Lipazanners and a few others.
IT doesn't matter to me how he's bred (pedigree) or what breed he is. Each horse gets the time he needs. Period.
|
|
| |
|
Best of the Badlands
Location: You never know where I will show up...... | wyoming barrel racer - 2015-11-25 3:17 PM Tdove - 2015-11-25 2:00 PM Feels like we are swapping bass fishing stories.... The idea of training a horse really is more of a means to an end. How fast you can do this or that, or what can a horse do at 30,60,90 days really is of little importance overall. In the end, it is more of what can a horse do when he is mature and finished. All the clinician stuff, Mustang Makeover, and Road to the Horse are all cool and everything, but ultimately that was never the goal of most horsemen. We've (meaning my wife) had horses here just do a bang up job from the beginning, some that took a little longer, and every now and then something that just doesn't want to be an honest member of society. The first few months a horse is ridden is really to prepare them with a foundation of tools for later specialized training. Sometimes a bag of tricks doesn't do much but look impressive. very true but to say a horse can't possibly be doing much at 30 days is crazy. It of course depends on the horse, but some of the time lines given are insane. I know absolutey no tricks to keep one from bucking, or to keep it from pulling back when tied or to give in the face etc. It was just from being ridden daily, making your rides count for something and each day getting the horse to learn something new. Going round and round in a round pen will get you nowhere and I know from sending my own colts out, that is what a lot of "trainers" do. I don't know Amy's trainer, but it seems to me that he just RIDES them, probably almost daily. That is the key to getting one riding nice in 30 days.
I agree, he does just take them out and RIDE them in a working ranch setting. A lot of trainers anymore, can't really go do that. I don't want just a round pen or arena started horse @ 30 days.
Depending on the time of year, my colts will be used in the feedlot, used for calving, used for gathering, and used for brandings. Right now my 2 year old that's out there, out of Dazzler & Lena May has been used to fall gather cows/heifers & preg testing. This is very important to me, when I get a 30 day colt back I plan on using it here more than just in the arena. And there's so much to be said for getting a good start on a colt and then putting that foundation to work ASAP. |
|
| |
|
 Expert
Posts: 3815
Location: The best kept secret in TX | Liana D - 2015-11-25 3:39 PM Fairweather - 2015-11-25 2:41 PM Just curious how many trainers mentioned here have trained breeds other than stock horses that they're basing their times on. I've worked with Arabs, tb, Warmbloods, Gypsy Vanners, Lipazanners and a few others. IT doesn't matter to me how he's bred (pedigree ) or what breed he is. Each horse gets the time he needs. Period.
BHUSA's comment about the breeding mattering in how well one was going to be in 30 days bothered me. I'm glad I'm not the only one who believes it doesn't really matter. Yes some horses who are bred the same act the same, I will agree on that. But to think that a horse doesn't get a fair chance just because of his breeding doesn't sound right to me. By that account no Hancock bred horse would be "able" to be broken and riden since they are "all bucking stock" horses. My little Hancock is a wild mare, sassy, agressive, a witch and a flat out run all day with no tire kinda mare. She speaks her mind and is on fire 24/7. At the same time she will take care of a child on her back during a leadline class by moving under them when they start to lean. But she has a great handle, is lightening fast out of the box and is by far the best and most protective Momma I've ever seen in action. She is a challenge to handle, but that's because she knows what she wants out of a ride. And that's for you to listen to her LOL  |
|
| |
|
 Owner of a ratting catting machine
Posts: 2258
| This sort of feels like recess. MY trainer is better than YOUR trainer type stuff.
I rode some colts to get through college. I've ridden enough outside horses to figure out that pretty soon, a good trainer will fire the client just as quickly as the client will fire the trainer. You just can't please everyone.
Some colts are natural and make you feel like a real trainer. Some colts take every tool in your belt. Some colts get sent home with a sign around their neck that says, "Do not pass go unless headed to sale barn." Some horses truly deserve every chance humans can give them, and some horses don't want to be given chances. They don't like people and only a certain type of rider and user can keep them in a job.
I don't think that teaching one tricks helps the horse. Trainers that can make colts look good for the camera aren't helping the horse to live a long, well cared for life. They're not giving the horse the tools to remain in good hands. This is due to the fact that most folks want to be able to get on horses that are easy to cue, that truly trust humans. A trainer that just installs tricks and deadens them to surroundings isn't going to replace a trainer that installs true responsibility and responsiveness in a horse.
I take forever training my own. I do. Mostly it's because I don't have the time, but I've still found that I like horses that are trained over time as opposed to slammed together in a 60 day period.
There's a very limited field that I would feel comfortable sending a horse to, due to the fear that a trainer would feel rushed to put my horse together and do too much too soon, or not do anything and keep my money.
I'm also not going to invest money in a colt that I just don't think has what it takes to perform over the long run. It's always a crap shoot, but I'm only going to send off horses of the highest quality. No reason to try to sew sows ears |
|
| |
|
 Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | I guess this thread really shows what broke is to some and foundation work is to another. we all do things differantly.. our goal should be the same.. a confident horse.....yes we can make one broke within 90 days to continue on their training with a trainer ..during our training time over time ..We usually start with the round pen, then free jumping after some basic ground work ..
then longline and saddle and then proceed to walk trot canter work then proceed to take out hacking and so on. this can take time .. we try to not rush or push but by no means stall for time..
The thing I guess thats differant is yes the horse could be broke and rideable but still needs guidence.. if owner is novice and starts to train on him then the horse might be confused and then there is no strong foundation .. we see them go out aand few months later come back for more training .. we like to try to provide the owner with a horse a lil more knowledgable and firm foundation.. I think thats where we are a lil differant then some. Im not saying you cant put walk trot canter into a colt in 90 days I just like to provide more then that .. the tools to go forth so it wont get so lost if the rider doesnt understand..a horse that is more mentally capable of handling things.. of course there is always a exception .but i like to know the rider /owner can enjoy the horse .. and horse be more secure in itself..i am talking warmbloods..
Edited by Bibliafarm 2015-11-25 4:38 PM
|
|
| |
|
Best of the Badlands
Location: You never know where I will show up...... | Liana D - 2015-11-25 3:39 PM Fairweather - 2015-11-25 2:41 PM Just curious how many trainers mentioned here have trained breeds other than stock horses that they're basing their times on. I've worked with Arabs, tb, Warmbloods, Gypsy Vanners, Lipazanners and a few others. IT doesn't matter to me how he's bred (pedigree) or what breed he is. Each horse gets the time he needs. Period.
And----this is why you are awesome!!! |
|
| |
|
Miss Not Exciting
Posts: 3279
Location: Ft Worth TX | My husband has broke A LOT of horses and never spent 30 days of ground work on one handled of not...we would get them in, never touched, and have to have them broke and ready to go home in 30-60 days! He made some really good quiet horses, but it was a lot of hours in the saddle on each one. |
|
| |
|
 Northern Exposure
Posts: 3919
Location: Wasagaming, Manitoba, Canada |
I think the big thing with trainers is you have to research them just as well as you would a horse you are going to buy. You want the right fit for you and your horse.
So many things come into play with trainers and clients. How far that horse progresses depends on so many factors.
I know alot of times the horses that the owners have 'started' or tried to work with , end up being alot more work then ones that are unhandled.
If you are sending a horse out - how that horse progresses mentally has alot to do with how that horse feels physically. We see posts here all the time about trainers and skinny horses - but there are also owners that send horses that aren't physically in shape to go to training, haven't had their teeth done or whatever it may be. A trainer can't work miracles on a horse that isn't feeling a 100 per cent.
It makes a huge difference to where the colt is going home to someone experienced with colts, to someone that isn't. 90 days you can have a horse riding really well with a trainer who is building that confidence and nurturing it. If they go home and get in a situation where their confidence gets comprised - they can really regress.
|
|
| |
Folks on-line