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LaVoy Finecum......what really happened to him?

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Griz
Reg. Sep 2003
Posted 2016-01-28 11:08 AM
Subject: RE: LaVoy Finecum......what really happened to him?


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1DSoon - 2016-01-28 7:48 AM

FinneyQuarterHorses - 2016-01-27 9:41 PM www.oregonlive.com has covered the entire occupation. You probably shouldn't repeat things from anti-government militia websites unless you want people to get the wrong idea, like it depends on what color the victim is whether you stand with police force. You should take particular note of the video and testimony of the driver of one of the Bundy vehicles explaining what Finicum did prior to being shot. It is surprisingly similar to police accounts. As for where they were going, it was to John Day to promote more violence, not to meet agents. Please educate yourselves on the facts, and for the sake of real ranchers quit calling those idiot welfare queen, anti-American dirtbags "Ranchers" . It gives us all a bad name and the people who are home working and taking care of their stock and families don't deserve to be painted with the same brush in the national media.

Β I'm glad to see at least one like minded socialist on this board.Β 

I thought I was surrounded by uneducated right wing nut jobs.Β 

Finney you are exactly right I have no idea why the Government is putting up with this nonsense. should have been ended weeks ago by any means necassary.Β 


Β 

If YOU are DUMB enough to believe ANYTHING the government has to say, I would venture to say that YOU are the "nut job." A tiny bit of common sense goes a long ways.
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musikmaker
Reg. Sep 2004
Posted 2016-01-28 11:19 AM
Subject: RE: LaVoy Finecum......what really happened to him?



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ksjackofalltrades - 2016-01-28 9:56 AM
cyount2009 - 2016-01-28 10:54 AM
wickedstepmother - 2016-01-28 9:20 AM
river runner - 2016-01-28 6:56 AM The main stream media will never report what actually happened and anyone who does will be labeled "crazy and extremist". Just like the EPA, the BLM needs a check on it's powers. People from the eastern part of the US really have no idea what it is like to live with them.
Or the far west. Anyone west of the cascades tend to be extremely liberals and will never acknowledge or admit that the government is sending our county to hell on a shutter :-/
People who do not live in the West and who have never seen first hand the struggle between the ranchers and the BLM and Forest Circus will never understand. The authorities charge them for AUMs, then come in cut the number of cattle they can graze that summer into a third of paid allotment and the rancher is expected to pay the original lease AUM for ever, regardless of how many cows he is allowed to graze every year. Every year that number of cows is cut smaller and smaller until it gets to a point where the cattleman goes screw it! Some sell out some put their cattle out there any ways. They paid for it, they should get to graze it. It would be like paying rent for the entire before hand and then the landlord coming in and saying only 1 of your family of 4 can stay in the house for the next 4 months because the faucet's leaky and the dishwasher doesn't work but you still have to pay the full months rent for the months they can't live there and there is no refunds.
We rent from private land owners that have restrictions on how many we can graze.  That is not only used by the government.   

It's so much deeper than even that.
For quite some time the collusion between the fed (blm/forest service) and the environmental groups has been beyond imagination. The absolute corruptness is sickening, federal judges who are besties with ceo's of these non-profit organizations or who has a family member who works for them or the fed, a sheriff who's an ex blm agent, blm agents who are trained snipers, ex cia, secret service...the threats and fines. It's a land grab that is full of deceipt, smoke and mirrors. It's not just about cattle, it's about the states, the locals, having no control over any of our resources and being forced to deal with bureuacrats that have an agenda.
It's about how we're denied state sovereignty...equal footing.
It's about our Constitutional Rights. All of us.  If we have none...neither do you.

There's enough info out there that can be used to justify any opinion a person may choose to have!
Just remember that opinions and facts are two different things...that leaves us delving into the what transpired to create this mess...who has something to hide? How did it get this far? Who's being the most transparent?
Pete Santilli (arrested independent media) posted all the evidence from the trials of the Hammonds, including what wasn't 'allowed' by the judge....it's floating around out there, I don't have time to search for it.
Happy hunting!

 
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MS2011
Reg. Mar 2005
Posted 2016-01-28 11:21 AM
Subject: RE: LaVoy Finecum......what really happened to him?



Own It and Move On


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musikmaker - 2016-01-28 11:19 AM
ksjackofalltrades - 2016-01-28 9:56 AM
cyount2009 - 2016-01-28 10:54 AM
wickedstepmother - 2016-01-28 9:20 AM
river runner - 2016-01-28 6:56 AM The main stream media will never report what actually happened and anyone who does will be labeled "crazy and extremist". Just like the EPA, the BLM needs a check on it's powers. People from the eastern part of the US really have no idea what it is like to live with them.
Or the far west. Anyone west of the cascades tend to be extremely liberals and will never acknowledge or admit that the government is sending our county to hell on a shutter :-/
People who do not live in the West and who have never seen first hand the struggle between the ranchers and the BLM and Forest Circus will never understand. The authorities charge them for AUMs, then come in cut the number of cattle they can graze that summer into a third of paid allotment and the rancher is expected to pay the original lease AUM for ever, regardless of how many cows he is allowed to graze every year. Every year that number of cows is cut smaller and smaller until it gets to a point where the cattleman goes screw it! Some sell out some put their cattle out there any ways. They paid for it, they should get to graze it. It would be like paying rent for the entire before hand and then the landlord coming in and saying only 1 of your family of 4 can stay in the house for the next 4 months because the faucet's leaky and the dishwasher doesn't work but you still have to pay the full months rent for the months they can't live there and there is no refunds.
We rent from private land owners that have restrictions on how many we can graze.  That is not only used by the government.   
It's so much deeper than even that.

For quite some time the collusion between the fed (blm/forest service) and the environmental groups has been beyond imagination. The absolute corruptness is sickening, federal judges who are besties with ceo's of these non-profit organizations or who has a family member who works for them or the fed, a sheriff who's an ex blm agent, blm agents who are trained snipers, ex cia, secret service...the threats and fines. It's a land grab that is full of deceipt, smoke and mirrors. It's not just about cattle, it's about the states, the locals, having no control over any of our resources and being forced to deal with bureuacrats that have an agenda.

It's about how we're denied state sovereignty...equal footing.

It's about our Constitutional Rights. All of us.  If we have none...neither do you.



There's enough info out there that can be used to justify any opinion a person may choose to have!

Just remember that opinions and facts are two different things...that leaves us delving into the what transpired to create this mess...who has something to hide? How did it get this far? Who's being the most transparent?

Pete Santilli (arrested independent media) posted all the evidence from the trials of the Hammonds, including what wasn't 'allowed' by the judge....it's floating around out there, I don't have time to search for it.

Happy hunting!


 

 
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Tdove
Reg. Apr 2015
Posted 2016-01-28 11:25 AM
Subject: RE: LaVoy Finecum......what really happened to him?



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Location: West Texas
Those federal prosecutors and all involved with this for 140 acres are likely going to Hell, in my opinion. But there the fire will be twice as hot and there wont be any putting it out. They should think about that before laying their heads down on the pillow tonight.

Our Government is out of control, from the city councils on up to the tippity top....but Trump is going to fix all of this and make America great again, right? Fat chance. People on all sides will believe whatever they want to, by the pushers of promise.

Edited by Tdove 2016-01-28 11:31 AM
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musikmaker
Reg. Sep 2004
Posted 2016-01-28 11:25 AM
Subject: RE: LaVoy Finecum......what really happened to him?



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MS2011 - 2016-01-28 9:31 AM Here's a good summary of the Hammond case - 

http://www.tsln.com/news/18837869-113/where-theres-smoke

Where there's smoke




 




Expand Photo Two members of the Hammond family, pictured left to right Earlyna, Steven, Susan, Dwight, Claire, Corbin and Emery, reported to prison Monday for setting fires to federal grazing lands. Dwight and Steven Hammond were originally convicted three years ago for setting fires in 2001 and 2006, according to the Associated Press, but after serving their original sentences, were sent back to prison because of a ruling in an appeals court. Their case sparked the latest outcry against government-held public lands, and a group of militia protesters took over a plot of land at Malheur National Wildlife Refuge near Burns, Ore., about 300 miles from Portland.  Photo courtesy Hammond family |

Two members of the Hammond family, pictured left to right Earlyna, Steven, Susan, Dwight, Claire, Corbin and Emery, reported to prison Monday for setting fires to federal grazing lands. Dwight and Steven Hammond were originally convicted three years ago for setting fires in 2001 and 2006, according to the Associated Press, but after serving their original sentences, were sent back to prison because of a ruling in an appeals court. Their case sparked the latest outcry against government-held public lands, and a group of militia protesters took over a plot of land at Malheur National Wildlife Refuge near Burns, Ore., about 300 miles from Portland.  The story could be the plot for a western-style soap opera.  The latest scene involved two ranchers being sentenced to five years in federal prison for inadvertantly burning about 140 acres of Bureau of Land Management (BLM) rangeland in two separate fires. That is an area big enough to feed about three cow-calf pairs for a year in that neck of the woods.  “I call it ‘as the sagebrush burns,’” said Erin Maupin, a former BLM range technician and watershed specialist and rancher in the area, of the long history involving the Bureau of Land Management (BLM), special interest groups and the cattle ranchers on the Steens Mountain of Oregon.  Dwight Hammond, 73 and son Steven Hamond, 46, admitted in a 2012 court case to lighting two different fires. Both fires started on Hammonds’ private property.  The Harney County ranchers are paying the BLM $400,000 for the costs of fighting fires the BLM claims they set.

“The jury convicted both of the Hammonds of using fire to destroy federal property for a 2001 arson known as the Hardie-Hammond Fire, located in the Steens Mountain Cooperative Management and Protection Area,” said a Department of Justice news release.  “The jury also convicted Steven Hammond of using fire to destroy federal property regarding a 2006 arson known as the Krumbo Butte Fire located in the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge and Steen Mountain Cooperative Management and Protection Area. An August lightening storm started numerous fires and a burn ban was in effect while BLM firefighters fought those fires. Despite the ban, without permission or notification to BLM, Steven Hammond started several “back fires” in an attempt to save the ranch’s winter feed. The fires burned onto public land and were seen by the BLM firefighters camped nearby. The firefighters took steps to ensure their safety and reported the arsons,” continued the DOJ release.

The two men were sentenced to prison in 2012. Steven served eleven months and Dwight three.  The men were charged with nine counts, including conspiracy, using aerial surveillance of sites they intended to burn, and burned, attempting to destroy vehicles and other property with fire, and more. Dwight and Steve were found guilty of two counts – the two fires they readily admitted to starting on their own property.  In order to draw the original court case to a close, the two men, in a plea deal, agreed that they would not appeal the 2012 sentence.  The Department of Justice news release said arson on federal land carries a five-year mandatory minimum sentence. Judge Michael Hogan, however, did not give the two men the minimum sentence called for under the Antiterrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act of 1996, saying it would have been “grossly disproportionate” to the crime. He added that a longer sentence would not meet any idea he has of justice and that he didn’t believe congress intended that act to be applied in cases like the Hammond one. A longer sentence than the few months he gave them would “shock his conscience” he said.  The Department of Justice appealed for a full sentence.  The Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals agreed to a review of the case and District Chief Judge Ann Aiken went ahead with a full sentence – five years in federal prison for both men, minus time already spent.  The fires  The first fire, in 2001, was a planned burn on Hammonds’ own property to reduce juniper trees that have become invasive in that part of the country. That fire burned outside the Hammonds’ private property line and took in 138 acres of unfenced BLM land before the Hammonds got it put out. No BLM firefighters were needed to help extinguish the fire and no fences were damaged.  “They called and got permission to light the fire,” Dwight’s wife, Susan, said, adding that was customary for ranchers conducting range management burns – a common practice in the area.  “We usually called the interagency fire outfit – a main dispatch – to be sure someone wasn’t in the way or that weather wouldn’t be a problem.” Susan said her son Steven was told that the BLM was conducting a burn of their own somewhere in the region the same day, and that they believed there would be no problem with the Hammonds going ahead with their planned fire. The court transcript includes a recording from that phone conversation.  In cross-examination of a prosecution witness, the court transcript also includes an admission from Mr. Ward, a range conservationist, that the 2001 fire improved the rangeland conditions on the BLM property.  Maupin, who resigned from the BLM in 1999, said that collaborative burns between private ranchers and the BLM had become popular in the late 1990s because local university extension researchers were recommending it as a means to manage invasive juniper that steal water from grass and other cover.

“Juniper encroachment had become an issue on the forefront and was starting to come to a head. We were trying to figure out how to deal with it on a large scale,” said Maupin, whose family neighbored the Hammonds for a couple of years.  “In 1999, the BLM started to try to do large scale burn projects. We started to be successful on the Steens Mountain especially when we started to do it on a large watershed scale as opposed to trying to follow property lines.”  Because private and federal land is intermingled, collaborative burns were much more effective than individual burns that would cover a smaller area, Maupin said.  Maupin said prescribed burns to manage juniper were common in the late 1990s and early 2000s, best done late in the fall when the days are cooler.

Prescribed burns on federal land in their area have all but stopped due to pressure from special interest groups, Maupin said. As a result, wildfires now burn much hotter due to a “ladder” of material on the ground – grass, brush and trees.  “The fires now burn really hot and they sterilize the ground. Then you have a weed patch that comes back.”  Maupin said planned burning in cooler weather like the Hammonds chose to do improves the quality of the forage, and makes for better sage grouse habitat by removing juniper trees that suck up water and house raptors – a sage grouse predator.

Susan said the second fire, in 2006, was a backfire started by Steven to protect their property from lightning fires.  “There was fire all around them that was going to burn our house and all of our trees and everything. The opportunity to set a back-fire was there and it was very successful. It saved a bunch of land from burning,” she remembers.  The BLM asserts that one acre of federal land was burned by the Hammonds’ backfire and Susan says determining which fire burned which land is “a joke” because fire burned from every direction.  Neighbor Ruthie Danielson also remembers that evening and agrees. “Lightning strikes were everywhere, fires were going off,” she said.  Charges The Hammonds were charged with nine counts in the original court case.  The BLM accused the Hammonds of several 2006 fires, including a large one known as the Granddad, which blazed about 46,000 acres.  According to the 2012 sentencing document, the jury found the men innocent or were deadlocked on all but two counts – the two fires the men admitted to starting – burning a total of about 140 acres.  Judge Hogen dismissed testimony from a disgruntled grandson who testified that the 2001 fire endangered his life and that of local hunters, saying the boy was very young and referencing a feud that may have influenced the testimony.  “Well, the damage was juniper trees and sagebrush, and there might have been a hundred dollars,” he added.

More to the story?

During her tenure as a full time BLM employee from 1997-1999, Maupin recalls other fires accidentally spilling over onto BLM land, but only the Hammonds have been charged, arrested and sentenced, she said. Ranchers might be burning invasive species or maybe weeds in the ditch. “They would call and the BLM would go and help put it out and it was not a big deal.”

On the flip side, Maupin remembers numerous times that BLM-lit fires jumped to private land. Neighbors lost significant numbers of cattle in more than one BLM fire that escaped intended containment lines and quickly swallowed up large amounts of private land. To her knowledge, no ranchers have been compensated for lost livestock or other loss of property such as fences.

Gary Miller, who ranches near Frenchglen, about 35 miles from the Hammonds’ hometown, said that in 2012, the BLM lit numerous backfires that ended up burning his private land, BLM permit and killing about 65 cows.  A YouTube video named BLM Working at Burning Frenchglen-July 10, 2012 shows “back burn” fires allegedly lit by BLM personnel that are upwind of the main fire, including around Gary Miller’s corrals. The fire that appeared ready to die down several times, eventually burned around 160,000 acres, Miller said.  Bill Wilber, a Harney County rancher, said five lightening strikes on July 13, 2014, merged to create a fire on Bartlett Mountain. The fire flew through his private ground, burned a BLM allotment and killed 39 cows and calves.  While the fire could have been contained and stopped, BLM restrictions prevent local firefighting efforts like building a fireline, so only after taking in 397,000 acres did the fire finally stop when it came up against a series of roads.

The issue isn’t limited to Oregon. In 2013, two South Dakota prescribed burns started by the U.S. Forest Service--over the objections of area landowners-- blew out of control, burning thousands of acres of federal and private land. Ranchers that suffered property damage from the Pautre fire in Perkins County, South Dakota filed extensive tort claims in accordance with federal requirements, but will receive no compensation because USDA found the U.S. Forest Service not responsible for that fire.

Why the Hammonds?

“The story is like an onion, you just keep peeling back the layers,” Maupin said.  In an effort to stave off what they feared was a pending Clinton/Babbitt monument designation in 2000, a group of ranchers on the scenic Steens Mountain worked with Oregon Representative Greg Walden, a Republican, to draft and enact the Steens Mountain Cooperative Management and Protection Act that would prevent such a deed. The ranchers agreed to work with special interest “environmental” groups like the aggressive Oregon Natural Desert Association and others to protect the higher-than 10,000-foot peak.  A number of ranchers at the top of the mountain traded their BLM permits and private property for land on the valley floor, allowing Congress to create a 170,000 acre wilderness in 2000, with almost 100,000 acres being “cow-free.”  “The last holdouts on that cow-free wilderness are the Hammonds,” said Maupin. Though some still have BLM grazing permits, the Hammonds are the last private landowners in the area.  “It’s become more and more obvious over the years that the BLM and the wildlife refuge want that ranch. It would tie in with what they have,” said Rusty Inglis, an area rancher and retired U.S. Forest Service employee.  The Hammonds also lost their ability to water cattle on one BLM permit when refuge personnel drained a watering hole that the Hammonds had always used.  Maupin said the government scientists and resource managers working “on the ground” supported the Hammonds’ use of the water but that the high level bureaucrats backed special interest anti-grazing groups. “There is a huge disconnect between employees on the ground and the decision-makers.” She said that divide builds tension between ranchers and federal agencies.  In the Hammonds’ plea agreement in the 2012 trial, the BLM obtained the first right of refusal should the family have to sell their private land, Maupin added.

The Maupins themselves had a small lease that also bordered the “cow-free wilderness” and the Oregon Natural Desert Association was “relentless in their pursuit to have us off, in order to expand the cow-free wilderness,” Maupin said. The group would criticize the ranchers’ water usage, causing them to pipe water to their cattle, which in turn instigated more complaints from the group.

Eventually the Maupins sold their permit and moved.  But the Hammonds remained.  Steve and Dwight Hammond will turn themselves in for their prison sentences in early January, Susan said.

The family has sold cattle. Their BLM permit has not been renewed for two years, leaving them unable to use a large amount of intermingled private land.

The family is in the “last challenge” to re-obtain their grazing permit. “I don’t know what happens after that,” Susan said. “We have done everything according to their rules and regulations and there is no reason that they should not give us back our permit. We don’t understand how a federal land management agency can ‘take’ personal private property (checkerboarded with BLM land) in this manner.

“We’ve been fighting it for five years. We don’t want to destroy people as we are fighting it even if it is a BLM employee,” she said, “They live in our community and they have families. We respect that.” The situation could get even more ugly but “it’s not going to be our fault,” she said.  “The Hammond family is not arsonists. They are number one, top notch. They know their land management,” said Inglis, who spent 34 years with the USFS and now ranches about 40 miles from the Hammonds and is unique in the area, operating strictly on private land.  Inglis, president of his county Farm Bureau and a member of the Oregon Cattlemen’s Association said both groups are working to help gain media attention for the Hammond case. The state Farm Bureau group gathered signatures online for a petition to show widespread support for the family. “Enough is enough,” Inglis said. “We are not in Nazi Germany. We are in the United States of America.”

The five-year prison sentence sets a worrisome precedent for area ranchers, Maupin said.  “Now the sky is the limit. It doesn’t have to be fire, it can be trespass with cattle.”

Another precedent – one for fire that burns beyond expectations – should apply to everyone, including federal employees, Maupin points out.

The People

Maupin talked about the Hammonds helping her and her husband with ranch work like hauling cattle and lending portable panels, not expecting repayment. Wilber recalled them hauling 4-H calves to the fair for neighbors and Inglis said Dwight once offered to lend him money because he thought he needed help. “Here’s a guy with $400,000 in fines and legal bills I can’t imagine, worrying about my welfare,” said Inglis.  “I think that’s the biggest point of all of this – how can you prosecute people as terrorists when they aren’t a terrorist?”  Property rights attorney Karen Budd-Falen from Cheyenne, Wyoming, agrees.  “What totally amazes me is what these guys did – they burned 140 acres. If you compare that to the EPA spill in Colorado, it amazes me that nothing will happen to those EPA employees. You have cities down there with no drinking water. The Hammonds didn’t do anything like that,” Budd-Falen said.  “It’s going to get worse before it gets better,” said Maupin.

The BLM deferred all questions to the Department of Justice, who shared their official news release but did not respond to emailed questions as of print time.







 

Note that the fed has 'first right of refusal' if the Hammonds sell their land. Also know that the Hammonds were threatened with a 'tough time in jail' if they publicly supported the protesters.
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musikmaker
Reg. Sep 2004
Posted 2016-01-28 11:29 AM
Subject: RE: LaVoy Finecum......what really happened to him?



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SO THE "CONSTITUTIONAL SHERIFF" WHO WAS SO OPEN TO MR BUNDY AND HIS GROUP AND WAS SUPPOSED TO BE AT A TOWN HALL MEETING WAITING ON BUNDY TO JOIN THEM IN GRANT COUNTY IS A LIAR HE SET THEM UP !!!! HOW CAN YOU BE AT A MEETING WAITING FOR THEMALITIA TO BE WELCOMED WHEN YOUR OUT ON THE SCENE WHILE THEY ARE BEING MURDERED AND SHOT..........................................................Grant county Sheriff Sheriff Glenn Palmer (left) carries a shotgun back to his patrol vehicle, which was serving as part of a roadblock. Highway 395 was blocked at Seneca between John Day and Burns by Oregon State police officers the evening of Tuesday,
H

Edited by musikmaker 2016-01-28 11:34 AM




(sheriff palmer.jpg)



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Attachments sheriff palmer.jpg (31KB - 177 downloads)
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foundation horse
Reg. Aug 2004
Posted 2016-01-28 11:34 AM
Subject: RE: LaVoy Finecum......what really happened to him?


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The question that stands out in my mind is this: What transpired to cause the FEDS (BLM/FBI) to use deadly force on an unarmed group?



Also, I recommend reading "Storm Over Rangelands" in regards to researching the background to Western States Land Ownership vs. The Federal Government. Plus look into the background of The BLM and Federal Forest Service and see where they evolved from. Another item to research is The Federal Land Office and what their purpose was. The answers lie in this research and it is absolutely scary!


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Tdove
Reg. Apr 2015
Posted 2016-01-28 11:35 AM
Subject: RE: LaVoy Finecum......what really happened to him?



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It kind of sounds like that scene in Braveheart, with the council for peace....

It is VERY telling that this is hush hush except for non mainstream media. If this was another event with other players, more favorable to the agenda, it would be round the clock coverage with everyone trying to get the latest information on exactly what happened. But with this its, like.....just the facts.....we don't know anything at this time... and that is all that is said.

To me that is telling. I would like to know what really did happen, but we will probably never know and that does point the finger of shame at the Government.
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foundation horse
Reg. Aug 2004
Posted 2016-01-28 11:38 AM
Subject: RE: LaVoy Finecum......what really happened to him?


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Like Musikmaker keeps saying research the ties between the Feds (BLM/Forest Svc) and Environmental Groups. The ties are astounding!
And the corruption of these groups knows no bounds!
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musikmaker
Reg. Sep 2004
Posted 2016-01-28 12:00 PM
Subject: RE: LaVoy Finecum......what really happened to him?



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foundation horse - 2016-01-28 10:34 AM The question that stands out in my mind is this: What transpired to cause the FEDS (BLM/FBI) to use deadly force on an unarmed group? Also, I recommend reading "Storm Over Rangelands" in regards to researching the background to Western States Land Ownership vs. The Federal Government. Plus look into the background of The BLM and Federal Forest Service and see where they evolved from. Another item to research is The Federal Land Office and what their purpose was. The answers lie in this research and it is absolutely scary!

Yes it is scary.
Since the founding of our nation there have been groups out to destroy it just as there have been groups out to save it. I see this as a meeting of two such groups.
Although it hasn't gotten a lot of media hype...the media HAS been there throughout most of this, they aren't reporting on it, though...it's been kept 'quiet' except for say...Santilli, Talk Network and a few others. A lot has happened, they've had local ranchers who once only visited them at night finally find the courage to visit in the day light...KrisAnne Hall, the constitutional attorney, went and gave classes there last week, here in Utah we had Jason Chaffetz, Rob Bishop, Chris Stewert (Mia Love couldn't make it...other committments) and others meet with the public & Utah commissioners/ranchers/environmentalists (they-enviros-had to be told to behave or leave) & this issue was discussed, that evening 8 ranchers cancelled their permits with the BLM & forest service...suffice it to say that the protesters have had an impact! One in which the fed needed to shut down asap.
It is much much bigger and more dangerous to our Nation than anything else right now.
Simply put...we need to abolish agencies and nullify laws that are not Constitutional.


 
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foundation horse
Reg. Aug 2004
Posted 2016-01-28 12:09 PM
Subject: RE: LaVoy Finecum......what really happened to him?


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Location: North Texas
musikmaker - 2016-01-28 12:00 PM
foundation horse - 2016-01-28 10:34 AM The question that stands out in my mind is this: What transpired to cause the FEDS (BLM/FBI) to use deadly force on an unarmed group? Also, I recommend reading "Storm Over Rangelands" in regards to researching the background to Western States Land Ownership vs. The Federal Government. Plus look into the background of The BLM and Federal Forest Service and see where they evolved from. Another item to research is The Federal Land Office and what their purpose was. The answers lie in this research and it is absolutely scary!
Yes it is scary.

Since the founding of our nation there have been groups out to destroy it just as there have been groups out to save it. I see this as a meeting of two such groups.

Although it hasn't gotten a lot of media hype...the media HAS been there throughout most of this, they aren't reporting on it, though...it's been kept 'quiet' except for say...Santilli, Talk Network and a few others. A lot has happened, they've had local ranchers who once only visited them at night finally find the courage to visit in the day light...KrisAnne Hall, the constitutional attorney, went and gave classes there last week, here in Utah we had Jason Chaffetz, Rob Bishop, Chris Stewert (Mia Love couldn't make it...other committments) and others meet with the public & Utah commissioners/ranchers/environmentalists (they-enviros-had to be told to behave or leave) & this issue was discussed, that evening 8 ranchers cancelled their permits with the BLM & forest service...suffice it to say that the protesters have had an impact! One in which the fed needed to shut down asap.

It is much much bigger and more dangerous to our Nation than anything else right now.

Simply put...we need to abolish agencies and nullify laws that are not Constitutional.




 

AGREED! 
And while I personally question the recreational use of Marijuana, Colorado and Washington have exercised their 10th Amendment RIGHT to nullify unConstitutional Acts/Laws!

 
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musikmaker
Reg. Sep 2004
Posted 2016-01-28 12:17 PM
Subject: RE: LaVoy Finecum......what really happened to him?



Nicknameless


Posts: 4565
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Location: I can see the end of the world from here!
Pete Santilli...the only 'free press' covering this story from beginning to his arrest.
This is a video of his arrest. Now...theres' nobody documenting anything.

http://www.amtvmedia.com/exclusive-footage-of-pete-santillis-arrest/

 
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euchee
Reg. Oct 2003
Posted 2016-01-28 12:24 PM
Subject: RE: LaVoy Finecum......what really happened to him?



Lived to tell about it and will never do it again


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RidenFly - 2016-01-28 10:14 AM  I'm amazed at  how little press this is getting.  I'm amazed that Obama weighed in on the Oscar debate but hasn't said a thing about this needless killing.   

No surprise, tho oscars deal is about blacks so he is all over that 
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OregonBR
Reg. Dec 2003
Posted 2016-01-28 12:32 PM
Subject: RE: LaVoy Finecum......what really happened to him?


Military family

Champ


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3canstorun - 2016-01-28 7:44 AM

Bear - 2016-01-28 10:40 AM I'm still looking for a good, objective account of the incident. To be perfectly honest, I haven't paid that much attention to these incidents. They really aren't that new, but it wouldn't surprise me to see more and more of these sorts of conflicts, as the divisions in the U.S. become deeper. We've had Russell Means and the AIM movement, Gordon Kaul and Posse Commitatus, Waco, and Ruby Ridge. One of these days a real armed conflict will erupt, because I sense we are sitting on a powder keg.

I also have not paid too much attention to it, due to no computer at home to read, (other then phone).Β  And, reading on the phone is hard.Β  I would need to start at the beginning of the burning of the BLM land, etc.Β 

Β However, I am interested to see the police version of their video of what happened.Β  Β And, if the man was gunned down with his hands up in the arm as stated by some.Β 

The problem actually begins WAY before the Hammonds. It's been building up to this for about 60 years and it's not just here in Oregon. It's all over. I have quite a collection of videos and articles about this and stories that are almost exactly the same perpetrated by the BLM, EPA and other alphabet agencies. These men were not wackos or terrorists. They were just like any hardworking American, trying to put food on the table and do their part. Until they either had to stand up or be broken.
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Barnmom
Reg. May 2006
Posted 2016-01-28 1:16 PM
Subject: RE: LaVoy Finecum......what really happened to him?



Hog Tie My Mojo


Posts: 4847
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Location: Opelousas, LA
musikmaker - 2016-01-28 12:17 PM Pete Santilli...the only 'free press' covering this story from beginning to his arrest.

This is a video of his arrest. Now...theres' nobody documenting anything.


http://www.amtvmedia.com/exclusive-footage-of-pete-santillis-arrest/


 

Just like they arrested the guy who made the planned parenthood videos for mishandling government documents yet Hillary is still running for president. So much for free speech if you happen to be saying something the government would rather keep quiet.  This is just the beginning, wish people would wake up.
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musikmaker
Reg. Sep 2004
Posted 2016-01-28 1:17 PM
Subject: RE: LaVoy Finecum......what really happened to him?



Nicknameless


Posts: 4565
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Location: I can see the end of the world from here!
Here's another video...very sad. I 'think' this is at the Hammond Ranch...fire set by BLM. Part of the reason why Bundy and friends got involved.
eta: How about the FBI prove that Lavoy's pickup is not riddles with bullets? If they can...
https://www.facebook.com/AmericanLandsCouncil/videos/964207073659086/?fref=nf


 

Edited by musikmaker 2016-01-28 1:33 PM
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OregonBR
Reg. Dec 2003
Posted 2016-01-28 1:31 PM
Subject: RE: LaVoy Finecum......what really happened to him?


Military family

Champ


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musikmaker - 2016-01-28 11:17 AM

Here's another video...very sad. I 'think' this is at the Hammond Ranch...fire set by BLM. Part of the reason why Bundy and friends got involved.
https://www.facebook.com/AmericanLandsCouncil/videos/964207073659086/?fref=nf

Β 

That's the fire the BLM set by the small town of Frenchglen. About 2012 I think. There was a big stink about this then. Nothing came of it. They get braver and braver. In this video, they burned up someones home and cattle, along with fence and corrals. This is an example of what they do.
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OregonBR
Reg. Dec 2003
Posted 2016-01-28 1:34 PM
Subject: RE: LaVoy Finecum......what really happened to him?


Military family

Champ


Posts: 19623
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This young man has seen the corruption in the Burns area for many years and explains more of the background.

https://www.facebook.com/saved/?cref=28
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OregonBR
Reg. Dec 2003
Posted 2016-01-28 1:36 PM
Subject: RE: LaVoy Finecum......what really happened to him?


Military family

Champ


Posts: 19623
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More background.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mI9IlziWphY
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MS2011
Reg. Mar 2005
Posted 2016-01-28 1:40 PM
Subject: RE: LaVoy Finecum......what really happened to him?



Own It and Move On


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Location: The edge of no where
Sooooo.....thoughts on what to try to do?  I hate sitting by while this drags on.
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