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 Own It and Move On
 
Location: The edge of no where | cheryl makofka - 2016-02-16 11:31 AM hoofs_in_motion - 2016-02-16 9:23 AM NJJ - 2016-02-16 9:11 AM hoofs_in_motion - 2016-02-16 8:46 AM I work in the discrimination "business".....that is sex discrimination. And honestly if I were you, and nothing is resolved from the situtation, I would contact your state's human rights commission and file a sex discrimination complaint against the employer. There are discrimination laws in place, and regardless of if BHUSA or whatever his name is thinks you are giving mixed signals......it's not right. Block him from social media, if it continues file a grievance within the company....and if it worsens, file a sex and retaliation complaint with the Human rights department. If you work in the discrimination business, then you are well aware that this did NOT happen in the workplace and that they will certainly bring up her past history........his Employer has no fault in "this" incident......IF it continues (or happens) in the work place, then she would have a case against the Employer.....Been there....done that.....
I've had 6 jobs over the last 4 years, this will be my 2nd manager to get fired over harrassment reasons, the other one also mainly dealt with me as well, and every other job i've also left due to unprofessional circumstances. Why is the individual who reported the man Facebook friends with a coworker? Why does the man have her cell number? I'm sorry by work life should not interfere with my personal life and the lines should not be blurred. My boss, nor are any of my co workers my Facebook friends
Many jobs require that you cell phone number is given to your co-workers. All of mine have.... list published internally. | |
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 Cute Little Imp
Posts: 2747
 
Location: N Texas | I totally understand the point of not having coworkers as FB friends, however I do socialize with some of my coworkers outside of work because we have actually become friends. I work in a tiny office (we are down to 6 people, 4 women and 2 men) and we're very close-knit, so being FB friends is natural. I am not FB friends with my male boss, because he doesn't use FB. Even if he did, I wouldn't have a problem being his "friend" because we have a good relationship, and everyone here respects everyone else. My other male coworker has FB, but I'm not his friend because his wife is a controlling psycho, so he's not allowed to have female "friends" that are not also "friends" with his wife (he is an extremely upstanding guy, she's just really insecure). No big deal, I honestly don't care. There was another male coworker at one time that I was FB friends with too (still am, even though he no longer works here). I also have all of their personal cell phone numbers.
So my point is, you CAN be FB friends with coworkers of both sexes and it not be a big deal. It only becomes a problem if you LET it. | |
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 Expert
Posts: 1304
| Maybe you're sending real flirtatious signals and maybe you're not. Now of days it can sometimes be hard to decipher between creepiness and chivalry. If you aren't being flirtatious, but think you're being simply nice, reevaluate your actions. Some people can take a small smile and turn it into you wanting their d**k. That sounds crude but true. Look at your actions and see if there's a pattern. And let me add I'm not trying to blame this on you or the victims. I'm just adding insight like others because it seems there's a pattern. | |
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  Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | both your faults IMO... why are you snapchatting with him..? if this has happened to other employers then you must be partly to blame.. you should not mix business with pleasure and he is wrong I agree 100% but you need to make some changes as well.. | |
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 Three in a Bikini
Posts: 2035
| lhighquality - 2016-02-16 10:00 AM
NJJ - 2016-02-16 9:00 AM
BARRELHORSE USA - 2016-02-15 11:03 PM You are having too many encounters of the 3rd kind .. so stop flirting and sending the wrong messages at work and become a co-worker and make your friends elsewhere and private from work!! Somehow you are giving an Ok or a green light signal to the guys and they are treating you like another guy or trying to take you up on the signals you are emitting. wear your business hat at work and don't share your personal stuff at work and you can wear your party hat on your own time with people you do not work with.. You are giving this guy a pity party right now by reporting him instead of clearing your phone and telling him in no uncertain terms never to contact you again ... I am not being mean ... but you overlook the fact you and the guy were having a phone chat while you were riding horses and somehow the conversation got out of hand in your mind. I would love to look at the history of your phone conversations with him and see what was really going on ... and how often you talked or texted etc Sorry for the fatherly advice but I think you need to take a hard look why things are always happening to you... If this guy has a good reputation etc etc ... they may be re-viewing the store videos to see what both of you were doing to create this situation so everything may backfire in your direction ... one can only hope both of you learn a very important lesson and abide by what you learned in the future .. I rarely ever agree with BHUSA but......I have been a plant Supervisor over 125+ employees and YOUR statement puts up a LOT of "red flags"......I've had 6 jobs over the last 4 years, this will be my 2nd manager to get fired over harrassment reasons, the other one also mainly dealt with me as well, and every other job i've also left due to unprofessional circumstances.Whether you realize it or not, you are probably giving off signals to these men....YOU are the one who should have been MORE professional in your job atmosphere.  Additionally, YOU should have taken the steps to demand that he stop before reporting him to the Manager. Is what he did wrong and probably inapproprate...yes....but you should share some of the blame......
Agree
Agree.
I work in a male dominated industry and have never had a reportable issue. If a line was ever crossed it was quickly shut down. | |
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 Expert
Posts: 1718
Location: Southeast Louisiana | 3canstorun - 2016-02-16 9:00 AM I agree with BHUSA to an extent too. You are giving off mixed signals. You don't say when you starting having these conversations with him, while you were riding. (Was he still married?) I remember not long ago people on here were up in arms because someone was wanting people to text them while they were riding. You state you have been involved in 3 of these situations. Maybe it is time to think about why. After the first time, you should have known the signals and been able to put a stop to it. This as you stated was the 3rd. And, as far as others saying he is a dirty old man compared to a 25 year old, 7 years difference is not a dirty old man. Expecially for a 25 year old woman.
That being said, there is no excuse for this type of behavior from anyone in the work place. Everyone shoudl feel safe at work from unwanted advances. However, it is up to us as individuals to stop them immediately nor welcome them in the first place. Everyone seems to think it is appropriate, the right thing to do, Okay, etc to have co-workers on or as our friends on social media. IT IS NOT. It will only lead to mis understood situations, such as this.
I certainly hope that you have stopped all communication with this person and frankly any persons that you work with. And, that others will also think about having co-workers on their social media accounts.
I think he probably did feel safe, that's why he sent her a teaser pic.
I agree with everyone else who is saying she might share some of the blame, considering her work history.
3canstorun, I agree, it is up to us to stop unwanted behavior. As I see it, the problem is that the op is a member of a procected class of people. She is a female and, if she makes a complaint against a male co-worker, the penalties for that male can be way harsh. That is where I disagree with federal law. There was a time when such laws were necessary. I, too, lived through times when harassment was largely ignored. Those laws were necessary. But, I also believe that time has passed. They need to expand the laws to include all persons, of every gender or preference. Fact is, when a guy gets harassed, he does not have the same recourse. The federal law also needs to include a step where the accused is notified to stop the behavior before life altering consequences are levied (i.e. job loss, write-ups that follow them forever). It is up to us to stop the unwanted behavior. Employers should realize that not everyone is comfortable talking directly with the accused. The employer should be allowed to mediate first, before the hammer comes down. The federal law can also include provisions for extreme cases without extremely punishing the accused who might have thought their advances were wanted. As it is now, a woman wispers "sexual harassment" and the accused is put through the ringer. | |
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 Don't Wanna Make This Awkward
Posts: 3106
Location: Texas | First off, I completely understand why people would assume it's me especially with the history and everything.
I can assure you that I am not flirting. I honestly don't talk to him much in person unless it is with a group. He always tries to have conversations with me, but they are usually left short because I just don't let the conversation carry on.
I have never had contact with a manager outside of the workplace until this job and since everyone else at work had added him on their stuff I went a long with it(my fault, yes, but will I ever allow it again? no) My immediate reaction to the snapchat was "WTF". & I would have told him off for even thinking that was OK but again, he is my manager. I see this man almost every day. I called a couple friends and was advised to just not respond.
I was not going to tell anyone on him, I would have preferred to just say "Hey, back off" but another co worker, also female and close to my age, told me she was feeling uncomfortable so I told her I was as well and she knew several other girls and our shift leader were all feeling the same way. That's how I ended up telling.
Anyways thank you everyone for sharing your concerns.. Right or wrong it's gonna be a good life lesson in the end. | |
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 Toastest with the Mostest
Posts: 5712
Location: That part of Texas | outrundaizy - 2016-02-16 11:15 PM I was not going to tell anyone on him, I would have preferred to just say "Hey, back off" but another co worker, also female and close to my age, told me she was feeling uncomfortable so I told her I was as well and she knew several other girls and our shift leader were all feeling the same way. That's how I ended up telling.
Do you know if anybody of the group actually confronted him about the behavior or even voiced a concern back? I'm just curious but completely understand if nobody did given the age that you guys are at and the fact he was your boss. Unfortunately, your not alone on facing a sticky situation like this.
My best advice -- given this episode and the others you've eluded to -- is to look into learning more about "boundaries" (Google it) and how you can become better at establishing and maintaining them in all your relationships. Townsend and Cloud have a good book about them that's worth the money to buy or at least checkout from your local library. From personal experience I can tell you it's not the easiest thing to work on but it's one of the best things you can ever learn that will pay off in so many areas of your life.
When you have good (or better) boundaries, you find yourself becoming that person who can handle situations like this with ease. You grow more comfortable in dealing with stuff before it goes to far. You get good at saying no in more contexts than just one. You become the person the boss wants to hear from because you can address issues in a candid manner and will become known as someone who "shoots straight" on matters people like to dodge around. You'll learn how to shut stuff like this down before it becomes an HR issue if possible. It's worth looking into.
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Expert
Posts: 1304
| Good advice! You're not alone, I've been working on it too. It feels so empowering! I have no problem standing up to a stranger but have a hard time doing it with people I'm close to. It takes work but feels great. | |
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 Experienced Mouse Trapper
Posts: 3106
Location: North Dakota | Red Raider - 2016-02-17 3:49 PM outrundaizy - 2016-02-16 11:15 PM I was not going to tell anyone on him, I would have preferred to just say "Hey, back off" but another co worker, also female and close to my age, told me she was feeling uncomfortable so I told her I was as well and she knew several other girls and our shift leader were all feeling the same way. That's how I ended up telling.
Do you know if anybody of the group actually confronted him about the behavior or even voiced a concern back? I'm just curious but completely understand if nobody did given the age that you guys are at and the fact he was your boss. Unfortunately, your not alone on facing a sticky situation like this.
My best advice -- given this episode and the others you've eluded to -- is to look into learning more about "boundaries" (Google it) and how you can become better at establishing and maintaining them in all your relationships. Townsend and Cloud have a good book about them that's worth the money to buy or at least checkout from your local library. From personal experience I can tell you it's not the easiest thing to work on but it's one of the best things you can ever learn that will pay off in so many areas of your life.
When you have good (or better) boundaries, you find yourself becoming that person who can handle situations like this with ease. You grow more comfortable in dealing with stuff before it goes to far. You get good at saying no in more contexts than just one. You become the person the boss wants to hear from because you can address issues in a candid manner and will become known as someone who "shoots straight" on matters people like to dodge around. You'll learn how to shut stuff like this down before it becomes an HR issue if possible. It's worth looking into.
 I just want to mention that I AM the straight shooter.....my boss doesn't like what I have to say because I tell it like it is and he's the one that REALLY doesn't want to HAVE to do anything....I'm now going to go look up boundaries and ways to say NO "candidly"......To the OP-I've NEVER had someone overstep their bounds with me at work. Clear and Concise even BEFORE the possible issue happens is how to get through life-(even though sometimes I wonder if there is anyone that even thinks of me in that sense) LOL~ | |
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Location: Not Where I Want to Be | LMS - 2016-02-17 5:27 PM Red Raider - 2016-02-17 3:49 PM outrundaizy - 2016-02-16 11:15 PM I was not going to tell anyone on him, I would have preferred to just say "Hey, back off" but another co worker, also female and close to my age, told me she was feeling uncomfortable so I told her I was as well and she knew several other girls and our shift leader were all feeling the same way. That's how I ended up telling.
Do you know if anybody of the group actually confronted him about the behavior or even voiced a concern back? I'm just curious but completely understand if nobody did given the age that you guys are at and the fact he was your boss. Unfortunately, your not alone on facing a sticky situation like this.
My best advice -- given this episode and the others you've eluded to -- is to look into learning more about "boundaries" (Google it) and how you can become better at establishing and maintaining them in all your relationships. Townsend and Cloud have a good book about them that's worth the money to buy or at least checkout from your local library. From personal experience I can tell you it's not the easiest thing to work on but it's one of the best things you can ever learn that will pay off in so many areas of your life.
When you have good (or better) boundaries, you find yourself becoming that person who can handle situations like this with ease. You grow more comfortable in dealing with stuff before it goes to far. You get good at saying no in more contexts than just one. You become the person the boss wants to hear from because you can address issues in a candid manner and will become known as someone who "shoots straight" on matters people like to dodge around. You'll learn how to shut stuff like this down before it becomes an HR issue if possible. It's worth looking into.
I just want to mention that I AM the straight shooter.....my boss doesn't like what I have to say because I tell it like it is and he's the one that REALLY doesn't want to HAVE to do anything....I'm now going to go look up boundaries and ways to say NO "candidly"......To the OP-I've NEVER had someone overstep their bounds with me at work. Clear and Concise even BEFORE the possible issue happens is how to get through life- (even though sometimes I wonder if there is anyone that even thinks of me in that sense ) LOL~
you sound like a pleasure to be around.
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Experienced Mouse Trapper
Posts: 3106
Location: North Dakota | 1DSoon - 2016-02-18 7:02 AM LMS - 2016-02-17 5:27 PM Red Raider - 2016-02-17 3:49 PM outrundaizy - 2016-02-16 11:15 PM I was not going to tell anyone on him, I would have preferred to just say "Hey, back off" but another co worker, also female and close to my age, told me she was feeling uncomfortable so I told her I was as well and she knew several other girls and our shift leader were all feeling the same way. That's how I ended up telling.
Do you know if anybody of the group actually confronted him about the behavior or even voiced a concern back? I'm just curious but completely understand if nobody did given the age that you guys are at and the fact he was your boss. Unfortunately, your not alone on facing a sticky situation like this.
My best advice -- given this episode and the others you've eluded to -- is to look into learning more about "boundaries" (Google it) and how you can become better at establishing and maintaining them in all your relationships. Townsend and Cloud have a good book about them that's worth the money to buy or at least checkout from your local library. From personal experience I can tell you it's not the easiest thing to work on but it's one of the best things you can ever learn that will pay off in so many areas of your life.
When you have good (or better) boundaries, you find yourself becoming that person who can handle situations like this with ease. You grow more comfortable in dealing with stuff before it goes to far. You get good at saying no in more contexts than just one. You become the person the boss wants to hear from because you can address issues in a candid manner and will become known as someone who "shoots straight" on matters people like to dodge around. You'll learn how to shut stuff like this down before it becomes an HR issue if possible. It's worth looking into.
I just want to mention that I AM the straight shooter.....my boss doesn't like what I have to say because I tell it like it is and he's the one that REALLY doesn't want to HAVE to do anything....I'm now going to go look up boundaries and ways to say NO "candidly"......To the OP-I've NEVER had someone overstep their bounds with me at work. Clear and Concise even BEFORE the possible issue happens is how to get through life- (even though sometimes I wonder if there is anyone that even thinks of me in that sense ) LOL~
"hello pot.....this is the kettle" | |
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Cute Little Imp
Posts: 2747
Location: N Texas | Sorry to bring this back up, but the idea of "never socialize with your coworkers" has really been bugging me. It just seems so cold. Those of you who think coworkers should only ever be coworkers must be really fun to work with. Had it not been for a coworker, I never would have met my husband. At a job I worked at many years ago, I became really good friends with a girl I worked with, and we hung out regularly on the weekends. One evening she invited me out because her brother's friend/coworker was celebrating his completion of EMT training. The brother's friend is now my husband. So if we all had the attitude of "you're my coworker and that's IT", then we never would have met.
I mean geeze, coworkers are people too, and it's ok to have friendly relationships with people you see every day, as long as you know where the boundaries are. The previously mentioned friend actually got promoted, so was my direct supervisor for a little while. We were mature enough to understand that we had to have a professional relationship at work, and that if she ever had to reprimand me or whatever, that I wouldn't take it personally, that it's just business. Luckily that never happened, and I moved on to another place of employment after I graduated college.
I also invited all of my coworkers to my wedding.
So my point is, don't alienate people because they're "just a coworker" because you never know where those relationships may take you  | |
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 Warrior Mom
Posts: 4400
| A very long time ago I signed up with one of those employment agency type places and they placed me with a pretty prominent well known Arcitect. He turned out to be a total perv... I mean, no holding back perv... very blatantly made comments on my anatomy... would look me up and down.. creeped me out.. I was pretty young and inexperienced in the workforce but wanted the job to learn and the pay was awesome. I lasted about two weeks and I went into the employment agency and told my agent what was happening and how uncomfortable I was. They pulled me from the job right then and there, sent me home and said they'd find something else for me. Well that was the last time I heard from them.. wouldn't take my calls or return my calls.. I'm pretty sure they just put another dancing chicken on his stage. Wish I knew then what I know now! | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 634
| Good advice! | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 634
| Bibliafarm - 2016-02-16 5:42 PM
both your faults IMO... why are you snapchatting with him..? if this has happened to other employers then you must be partly to blame.. you should not mix business with pleasure and he is wrong I agree 100% but you need to make some changes as well..
I agree with this. She let it go too far. She sounds young, so hopefully she learned her lesson. DO NOT SNAPCHAT WITH YOUR BOSS!  | |
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 Fact Checker
Posts: 16575
Location: Displaced Iowegian | Gunner11 - 2016-02-24 10:26 AM Sorry to bring this back up, but the idea of "never socialize with your coworkers" has really been bugging me. It just seems so cold. Those of you who think coworkers should only ever be coworkers must be really fun to work with. Had it not been for a coworker, I never would have met my husband. At a job I worked at many years ago, I became really good friends with a girl I worked with, and we hung out regularly on the weekends. One evening she invited me out because her brother's friend/coworker was celebrating his completion of EMT training. The brother's friend is now my husband. So if we all had the attitude of "you're my coworker and that's IT", then we never would have met. I mean geeze, coworkers are people too, and it's ok to have friendly relationships with people you see every day, as long as you know where the boundaries are. The previously mentioned friend actually got promoted, so was my direct supervisor for a little while. We were mature enough to understand that we had to have a professional relationship at work, and that if she ever had to reprimand me or whatever, that I wouldn't take it personally, that it's just business. Luckily that never happened, and I moved on to another place of employment after I graduated college. I also invited all of my coworkers to my wedding. So my point is, don't alienate people because they're "just a coworker" because you never know where those relationships may take you
I think you are mixing apples with oranges......you were a girl/girl friend combination......when you start to socialize with the opposite sex, things don't always go well. Additionally, it is REALLY inappropriate to socialize with a male boss.......... | |
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Cute Little Imp
Posts: 2747
Location: N Texas | NJJ - 2016-02-24 1:51 PM
Gunner11 - 2016-02-24 10:26 AM Sorry to bring this back up, but the idea of "never socialize with your coworkers" has really been bugging me. It just seems so cold. Those of you who think coworkers should only ever be coworkers must be really fun to work with. Had it not been for a coworker, I never would have met my husband. At a job I worked at many years ago, I became really good friends with a girl I worked with, and we hung out regularly on the weekends. One evening she invited me out because her brother's friend/coworker was celebrating his completion of EMT training. The brother's friend is now my husband. So if we all had the attitude of "you're my coworker and that's IT", then we never would have met. I mean geeze, coworkers are people too, and it's ok to have friendly relationships with people you see every day, as long as you know where the boundaries are. The previously mentioned friend actually got promoted, so was my direct supervisor for a little while. We were mature enough to understand that we had to have a professional relationship at work, and that if she ever had to reprimand me or whatever, that I wouldn't take it personally, that it's just business. Luckily that never happened, and I moved on to another place of employment after I graduated college. I also invited all of my coworkers to my wedding. So my point is, don't alienate people because they're "just a coworker" because you never know where those relationships may take you
I'm addressing everyone who said to keep work life and private life completely separate, and to not add ANY coworkers to social media or socialize outside of work, regardless of gender. Yes, it is possible to socialize with male colleagues outside of work and it not be inappropriate. I have done it and it's never been an issue. | |
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| Wow....just wow.
The OP may have not used the best judgement in mixing social media with work but the bottom line is that it is ALWAYS the manager that is responsible for making sure no lines are crossed. Even if she did give off inappropriate signals, its still the manager's responsibility to behave in a professional manner.
OP, you got some great advice on learning to be more assertive about boundries and honestly, while none of this is your fault, if you were my daughter I'd advise you to be very careful about social media usage, especially with the opposite gender. It's just too easy for the line to get crossed. You did the right thing in reporting your manager's behavior to his superiors. I believe you are legally obligated to share inappropriate behavior as this puts you, your co-workers and the company at risk. If he retaliates in any way, shape or form, you need to report that as well. | |
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Fact Checker
Posts: 16575
Location: Displaced Iowegian | Cowpony64 - 2016-02-24 4:38 PM Wow....just wow.
The OP may have not used the best judgement in mixing social media with work but the bottom line is that it is ALWAYS the manager that is responsible for making sure no lines are crossed. Even if she did give off inappropriate signals, its still the manager's responsibility to behave in a professional manner.
OP, you got some great advice on learning to be more assertive about boundries and honestly, while none of this is your fault, if you were my daughter I'd advise you to be very careful about social media usage, especially with the opposite gender. It's just too easy for the line to get crossed. You did the right thing in reporting your manager's behavior to his superiors. I believe you are legally obligated to share inappropriate behavior as this puts you, your co-workers and the company at risk. If he retaliates in any way, shape or form, you need to report that as well. Unfortunately, I think you missed this part of her post.......probably the reason that she is getting a "little" of the blame.......
I've had 6 jobs over the last 4 years, this will be my 2nd manager to get fired over harrassment reasons, the other one also mainly dealt with me as well, and every other job i've also left due to unprofessional circumstances.
Edited by NJJ 2016-02-24 5:45 PM
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