|
|
 BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25351
  
Location: Bastrop, Texas | trickster j - 2016-05-31 8:17 PM
Bear - 2016-05-31 6:14 PM This is from a site called Quackwatch: 3. What are its membership requirements? Is scientific expertise required—or just a willingness to pay dues? An organization open to almost anyone may be perfectly respectable (like the American Association for the Advancement of Science), but don't let the fact that an individual belongs to it impress you. The International Academy of Nutritional Consultants, the American Association of Nutritional Consultants, the National Academy of Research Biochemists, and the International Association of Therapeutic Specialists issue attractive certificates, but their only requirement for "professional membership" has been payment of a modest fee. Some "institutes," "research" centers, and voluntary organizations are simply names adopted by an individual or a few people who wish to make their commercial activities sound more respectable. The National Academy of Sports Medicine, for example, began as a private corporation used for marketing dubious products; and the "Noble Research Society" merely marketed a quack device. OK, so you just verified that you are indeed an internet "expert" who researches only those topics that support your narrow minded and uneducated theory-  why not slip over to the dark side and read something that is peer reviewed and scholarly?
eta: Â OK, now you are just making me crabby......... Â if you want to play the science game get some scientific sources here to discuss- omg
More keywords, straight from the playbook:
" narrow minded" (again) and "uneducated" ( again)
Explain your certification process. What's required? Who puts on the exam? Is there an exam? | |
| | |
 Elite Veteran
Posts: 933
Location: north dakota | casualdust07 - 2016-05-31 8:36 PM
GLP - 2016-05-31 4:34 PM
Tdove - 2016-05-31 2:59 PM
I don't much think a vet certification is worth a darn either. There are a lot of vets that aren't very good. Experience goes a long way. No vet can be good at everything either. Certain vets are better at certain things, much of it to do with aptitude and experience. I wouldn't give a first year vet the time of day with my horse. Most have no idea how little they know. The same is true with most other things. I know non vet experts that are great at what they do, because they are focused on learning one thing and have gained the experience in doing it to be good at it. I have devoted a lot of time to equine nutrition, and I don't take much stock in a PhD in Equine Nutrition....they are the ones bringing us the junk food for horses. Many of the best dentist are non vets. Most vets are terrible dentist, and even worse nutritionist. Finally, Chiropractic services are best performed by a chiropractor. They do it for a living and experience and talent is what makes them good, not a vet degree. Seriously, a certification means little to me in any field. Mastery is dependent on skill and experience, no certification or bona fide degree alone provides this to you. It is just a starting place and in some cases is not necessary at all.
Amen to this!!! 
Gosh this stabs my heart. If you only knew how we truly feel. I'm just starting my fourth year of vet school, and am waiting on an emergency to come in.. so I have a few minutes to respond.
Every day we feel stupid, or at least I do. Every day I'm surrounded by vets who have anywhere from 2-40+ years experience on me. They ask me questions, they probe my brain, they challenge me. I feel like an idiot 99% of the time. In NO way do we feel like we know everything. In NO way do we feel like experts. We are shaking in our boots trying to remember everything we are taught, trying to figure out how these senior vets are so calm and collected making life and death decisions on horses. We use up what little vacation time we have to visit more and more clinics so we can get as much experience as we get. We take a job first year out of school making anywhere from 20-30,000 for that first year. Can you imagine, having a doctorate degree, and making $25,000? High paying internships pay around $35,000 and are few and far between. We **** sure don't do it for the money, we do it because we have this crazy calling to try and help both animals and people. Associates are lucky to break into 6 figure incomes.
So, I'm not sure what 1st year out of school vets you are talking about.. but I can tell you, every single one I have met knows exactly where they stand, how much they don't know, and how far we have to go. So, I'm going to pretend I didn't read this and I'm going to keep plugging along, head low, taking in as much as I can being the low man on the totem pole.
I admire vet students. It's tough to get in vet school. They have huge student loans and get paid peanuts when they graduate. The working conditions in my area are not fun. Vets also to take Call for emergencies so even when they are not at work they can't make out of town plans when they are on call. They work as hard if not harder than MD's in worse conditions and get paid less.
Edited by ndcowgirl 2016-05-31 9:02 PM
| |
| | |
BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25351
Location: Bastrop, Texas | ndcowgirl - 2016-05-31 8:45 PM
I utilize a few certified experts such as a equine denist, farriers message therapist and a horse Chiro. I can see the point Dr Ramsey is making since I've seen coarses offered and you can be certified for some massage therapist in 3 days.
That's my point. I agree. We have used equine dentists and chiros as well, in fact. Chiros definitely have their place, in my opinion. I've known a few self- described equine chiros, who were basically self-taught. | |
| | |
Too busy outside!
Posts: 5417
| Bear - 2016-05-31 6:48 PM trickster j - 2016-05-31 8:17 PM Bear - 2016-05-31 6:14 PM This is from a site called Quackwatch: 3. What are its membership requirements? Is scientific expertise required—or just a willingness to pay dues? An organization open to almost anyone may be perfectly respectable (like the American Association for the Advancement of Science), but don't let the fact that an individual belongs to it impress you. The International Academy of Nutritional Consultants, the American Association of Nutritional Consultants, the National Academy of Research Biochemists, and the International Association of Therapeutic Specialists issue attractive certificates, but their only requirement for "professional membership" has been payment of a modest fee. Some "institutes," "research" centers, and voluntary organizations are simply names adopted by an individual or a few people who wish to make their commercial activities sound more respectable. The National Academy of Sports Medicine, for example, began as a private corporation used for marketing dubious products; and the "Noble Research Society" merely marketed a quack device. OK, so you just verified that you are indeed an internet "expert" who researches only those topics that support your narrow minded and uneducated theory- why not slip over to the dark side and read something that is peer reviewed and scholarly?
eta: OK, now you are just making me crabby......... if you want to play the science game get some scientific sources here to discuss- omg More keywords, straight from the playbook: " narrow minded" (again ) and "uneducated" ( again ) Explain your certification process. What's required? Who puts on the exam? Is there an exam?
Ok- once again you've verified my opinion of you. You aren't very fun to have an argument with- not even a simple minded one- it's obvious you only meant to irritate and not educate- since you are an expert of irritation but a novice in education. carry on with your agenda here- I won't interfere- | |
| | |
 Three in a Bikini
Posts: 2035
| Bear - 2016-05-31 12:48 PM
trickster j - 2016-05-31 12:40 PM
Bear - 2016-05-31 9:44 AM How can I become a certified herbalist? What's the process? What guarantee do I have, as a prospective consumer of herbs, that the seller of these products is an "expert"?
Basically Bear, it's a buyer beware market- you would actually have to put some effort into educating yourself first in order to know if you are going to get a qualified expert or a liar. Â If you choose to hire a certifed expert herbalist who doesn't know bout herbal remedies that would be your own fault.
The problem, as I see it, is people are trying to apply standards that attempt to imply a certain level of excellence and a sound fund of scientific knowledge, to an industry that is largely devoid of those principles. I'm speaking of naturopathic and alternative remedies.
Now, having said that, I emphasize the qualifier "largely", because there are several exceptions. The key thing in traditional medicine is to remain open to considering naturopathic/alternative remedies and therapies, without sacrificing sound, objective scientific principles and.....standards. We call this "integrative" medicine. In medicine, a student typically must graduate from college and take a standardized exam prior to consideration for acceptance into medical school. He/she must have letters of recommendation, and a high GPA before being considered for an interview. Once accepted, a student must pass all courses/rotations before graduation, 4 years later. Before being allowed to independently practice medicine, a doctor must pass 3 sets of national examinations over the course of his/her education and training. Then we have 3-6 years of residency training where you basically have no life outside of a hospital, and you learn the meaning of sleep deprivation. On the completion of residency, there is a final process of board certification. That involves a written exam, followed by an oral exam, IF you have passed the written exam. There now is a process of "recertification" that requires you to pass another exam, usually every 10 years. In addition to all of this, each state has various requirements for so many hours of continuing medical education. Some additional requirements exist in certain states, like Texas, where you have to take a course in medical jurisprudence.
To become "certified" in things like vibrating plates, herbs, lasers, and magnets doesn't mean anything to me. It might mean you have to pass a rigorous training followed by some standard exam, or it might mean the entrepreneur who taught you how to use a device for a fee or "tuition" simply issued a certificate, on the completion of a course.
This is the most well written post I have read on this forum in so long...
Thank goodness someone finally said it.  | |
| | |
BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25351
Location: Bastrop, Texas | trickster j - 2016-05-31 9:05 PM
Bear - 2016-05-31 6:48 PM trickster j - 2016-05-31 8:17 PM Bear - 2016-05-31 6:14 PM This is from a site called Quackwatch: 3. What are its membership requirements? Is scientific expertise required—or just a willingness to pay dues? An organization open to almost anyone may be perfectly respectable (like the American Association for the Advancement of Science), but don't let the fact that an individual belongs to it impress you. The International Academy of Nutritional Consultants, the American Association of Nutritional Consultants, the National Academy of Research Biochemists, and the International Association of Therapeutic Specialists issue attractive certificates, but their only requirement for "professional membership" has been payment of a modest fee. Some "institutes," "research" centers, and voluntary organizations are simply names adopted by an individual or a few people who wish to make their commercial activities sound more respectable. The National Academy of Sports Medicine, for example, began as a private corporation used for marketing dubious products; and the "Noble Research Society" merely marketed a quack device. OK, so you just verified that you are indeed an internet "expert" who researches only those topics that support your narrow minded and uneducated theory-  why not slip over to the dark side and read something that is peer reviewed and scholarly?
eta: Â OK, now you are just making me crabby......... Â if you want to play the science game get some scientific sources here to discuss- omg More keywords, straight from the playbook: " narrow minded" (again ) and "uneducated" ( again ) Explain your certification process. What's required? Who puts on the exam? Is there an exam?
Um, I'll have you know that I've had more education than you could even dream of having.
So, you won't answer my question about your certification process.
Your timing of bowing out of this discussion is evidently fortuitous.
You tried to belittle me for posting something off the internet, yet, my understanding is the "Masterson Method", in which you are certified, is a course available online. How do you reconcile this hypocrisy? | |
| | |
  Fact Checker
Posts: 16572
Location: Displaced Iowegian | trickster j - 2016-05-31 9:05 PM Bear - 2016-05-31 6:48 PM trickster j - 2016-05-31 8:17 PM Bear - 2016-05-31 6:14 PM This is from a site called Quackwatch: 3. What are its membership requirements? Is scientific expertise required—or just a willingness to pay dues? An organization open to almost anyone may be perfectly respectable (like the American Association for the Advancement of Science), but don't let the fact that an individual belongs to it impress you. The International Academy of Nutritional Consultants, the American Association of Nutritional Consultants, the National Academy of Research Biochemists, and the International Association of Therapeutic Specialists issue attractive certificates, but their only requirement for "professional membership" has been payment of a modest fee. Some "institutes," "research" centers, and voluntary organizations are simply names adopted by an individual or a few people who wish to make their commercial activities sound more respectable. The National Academy of Sports Medicine, for example, began as a private corporation used for marketing dubious products; and the "Noble Research Society" merely marketed a quack device. OK, so you just verified that you are indeed an internet "expert" who researches only those topics that support your narrow minded and uneducated theory- why not slip over to the dark side and read something that is peer reviewed and scholarly?
eta: OK, now you are just making me crabby......... if you want to play the science game get some scientific sources here to discuss- omg More keywords, straight from the playbook: " narrow minded" (again ) and "uneducated" ( again ) Explain your certification process. What's required? Who puts on the exam? Is there an exam?
Since you are so hell bent on calling him uneducated, etc.....please answer his questions....... | |
| | |
 Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | ndcowgirl - 2016-05-31 9:49 PM casualdust07 - 2016-05-31 8:36 PM GLP - 2016-05-31 4:34 PM Tdove - 2016-05-31 2:59 PM I don't much think a vet certification is worth a darn either. There are a lot of vets that aren't very good. Experience goes a long way. No vet can be good at everything either. Certain vets are better at certain things, much of it to do with aptitude and experience. I wouldn't give a first year vet the time of day with my horse. Most have no idea how little they know. The same is true with most other things. I know non vet experts that are great at what they do, because they are focused on learning one thing and have gained the experience in doing it to be good at it. I have devoted a lot of time to equine nutrition, and I don't take much stock in a PhD in Equine Nutrition....they are the ones bringing us the junk food for horses. Many of the best dentist are non vets. Most vets are terrible dentist, and even worse nutritionist. Finally, Chiropractic services are best performed by a chiropractor. They do it for a living and experience and talent is what makes them good, not a vet degree. Seriously, a certification means little to me in any field. Mastery is dependent on skill and experience, no certification or bona fide degree alone provides this to you. It is just a starting place and in some cases is not necessary at all. Amen to this!!! Gosh this stabs my heart. If you only knew how we truly feel. I'm just starting my fourth year of vet school, and am waiting on an emergency to come in.. so I have a few minutes to respond. Every day we feel stupid, or at least I do. Every day I'm surrounded by vets who have anywhere from 2-40+ years experience on me. They ask me questions, they probe my brain, they challenge me. I feel like an idiot 99% of the time. In NO way do we feel like we know everything. In NO way do we feel like experts. We are shaking in our boots trying to remember everything we are taught, trying to figure out how these senior vets are so calm and collected making life and death decisions on horses. We use up what little vacation time we have to visit more and more clinics so we can get as much experience as we get. We take a job first year out of school making anywhere from 20-30,000 for that first year. Can you imagine, having a doctorate degree, and making $25,000? High paying internships pay around $35,000 and are few and far between. We **** sure don't do it for the money, we do it because we have this crazy calling to try and help both animals and people. Associates are lucky to break into 6 figure incomes. So, I'm not sure what 1st year out of school vets you are talking about.. but I can tell you, every single one I have met knows exactly where they stand, how much they don't know, and how far we have to go. So, I'm going to pretend I didn't read this and I'm going to keep plugging along, head low, taking in as much as I can being the low man on the totem pole.
Ive been at UF equine hospital many many times.. These vet students are overworked. never sleep, are learning and getting yelled at.. its a on and on thing.. I admire their strong dedication because without them there would be no good vets in the years to come.. I know vets that have been vets for 30 yrs that are so burned out they would rather not come to your barn at 3 am for a colic or distress.. but a new vet sure would.. yes experience is great.. so is passion and dedication.. as a horse owner we must stay on top of things.. do they make wrong decisions? absolutely.. so does a 30 yr vet.. there are good and bad in all fields..
Edited by Bibliafarm 2016-05-31 9:36 PM
| |
| | |
Too busy outside!
Posts: 5417
| NJJ - 2016-05-31 7:14 PM trickster j - 2016-05-31 9:05 PM Bear - 2016-05-31 6:48 PM trickster j - 2016-05-31 8:17 PM Bear - 2016-05-31 6:14 PM This is from a site called Quackwatch: 3. What are its membership requirements? Is scientific expertise required—or just a willingness to pay dues? An organization open to almost anyone may be perfectly respectable (like the American Association for the Advancement of Science), but don't let the fact that an individual belongs to it impress you. The International Academy of Nutritional Consultants, the American Association of Nutritional Consultants, the National Academy of Research Biochemists, and the International Association of Therapeutic Specialists issue attractive certificates, but their only requirement for "professional membership" has been payment of a modest fee. Some "institutes," "research" centers, and voluntary organizations are simply names adopted by an individual or a few people who wish to make their commercial activities sound more respectable. The National Academy of Sports Medicine, for example, began as a private corporation used for marketing dubious products; and the "Noble Research Society" merely marketed a quack device. OK, so you just verified that you are indeed an internet "expert" who researches only those topics that support your narrow minded and uneducated theory- why not slip over to the dark side and read something that is peer reviewed and scholarly?
eta: OK, now you are just making me crabby......... if you want to play the science game get some scientific sources here to discuss- omg More keywords, straight from the playbook: " narrow minded" (again ) and "uneducated" ( again ) Explain your certification process. What's required? Who puts on the exam? Is there an exam?
OK, so in 2001 I went through a year long course in equine massage, this was so long ago I can't specifically remember exact training hours, but there were 4 modules to go through with the final one containing a complete dissection. There was ALOT of anatomy involved in this course. There were written exams each week and final practical exams at the end of each module which required evaluating, treating and reassessing our subjects. This training earned me my Certification in Equine Massage, I went to this school in Loveland, CO and had the honor of being taught by not only the original founder of Equitouch (the program has drastically changed in the past 15 years) as well as Dave McLean who was one of the first equine chiros in our part of the country.
In 2006 I had a serious shoulder injury that made it very difficult (impossible) to work on horses as physically as I had before, and so I discovered the magic of microcurrent therapy- of which there is plenty of scientific research discussings the benefits of beginning in 1970 with the first machines which were called the Acuscope, to which they later added the Myoscope (name later changed to Myopulse) and then the Proscope 360 came shortly after these units, along with the Precision, MENS Miva and a few others whose names escape me right now. 30 years forward we have more technologically advanced and far more user-friendly machines- but that's another subject. So yes, I am a certified microcurrent therapist as well- and this also involved an exam, practicum and field study.
In 2011 I met Jim Masterson, who is the author of "Beyond Horse Massage" and has been the official equine therpist for the USET. His website is www.mastersonmethod.com if you are interested to know more about him. His practitioner program consists of an initial weekend training followed by a 7 day advanced training, followed by a mimimum of a year of practical training consisting of 3 blocks of 15 case studies followed up with three weekends of hands on training with a certified coach. This program also contained an intensive anatomy course- which I happily whizzed through because of my previous anatomy education. Finally, when the field study and anatomy courses are completed, there is a 3-day finishing course where you work one on one with Jim and learn more advanced techniques and variations. I cranked my way through Jim's certification process- but it generally takes over a year to complete, I worked my arse off and completed it in one.
In the meantime, I have been to Dr. Deb Bennett's 5-day dissection course, studied the works of Dr. Daniel Kamen, April Battles, and many, many more. And previous to my shoulder injury, I had been a personal trainer (yes ACSM and AFAA certified) for 15 years, which made the anatomy and biomechanic elements easy for me to catch on too. I was also a Johnny G. certfied Spinning Instructor, step aerobic and kickboxing certified as well- oh yes, and of course certified in CPR.
I currently am working on my masters degree in professional counseling through Grand Canyon University, my goal is to be a Certified Equine Psychotherapist.
Previous to all of this, I have been invloved with horses my entire life and have been blessed to be able to train under such legends as Peggy Cummings and Sally Swift- I've also attended numerous horsemanship, training, barrel racing, roping, reining, etc. clinics because I feel that I can never learn enough and that most everyone (even those without PhD's!) can offer me something to benefit my endeavours.
eta: I completely forgot that I have a 2-year associates degree from Central Wyoming College in Equine Science- funny this accomplishment is the one that I value the least!
So enough about me- how about you and Bear?
Edited by trickster j 2016-05-31 10:54 PM
| |
| | |
Too busy outside!
Posts: 5417
| Bear - 2016-05-31 7:13 PM trickster j - 2016-05-31 9:05 PM Bear - 2016-05-31 6:48 PM trickster j - 2016-05-31 8:17 PM Bear - 2016-05-31 6:14 PM This is from a site called Quackwatch: 3. What are its membership requirements? Is scientific expertise required—or just a willingness to pay dues? An organization open to almost anyone may be perfectly respectable (like the American Association for the Advancement of Science), but don't let the fact that an individual belongs to it impress you. The International Academy of Nutritional Consultants, the American Association of Nutritional Consultants, the National Academy of Research Biochemists, and the International Association of Therapeutic Specialists issue attractive certificates, but their only requirement for "professional membership" has been payment of a modest fee. Some "institutes," "research" centers, and voluntary organizations are simply names adopted by an individual or a few people who wish to make their commercial activities sound more respectable. The National Academy of Sports Medicine, for example, began as a private corporation used for marketing dubious products; and the "Noble Research Society" merely marketed a quack device. OK, so you just verified that you are indeed an internet "expert" who researches only those topics that support your narrow minded and uneducated theory- why not slip over to the dark side and read something that is peer reviewed and scholarly?
eta: OK, now you are just making me crabby......... if you want to play the science game get some scientific sources here to discuss- omg More keywords, straight from the playbook: " narrow minded" (again ) and "uneducated" ( again ) Explain your certification process. What's required? Who puts on the exam? Is there an exam? Um, I'll have you know that I've had more education than you could even dream of having. So, you won't answer my question about your certification process. Your timing of bowing out of this discussion is evidently fortuitous. You tried to belittle me for posting something off the internet, yet, my understanding is the "Masterson Method", in which you are certified, is a course available online. How do you reconcile this hypocrisy?
eta: if I don't respond right away don't think I am "bowing out" of the discussion- I see that this is going to take some time to get through with you and I am committed to finishing it to the end. I have to work on my paper for school- (gasp- online!! LOL). I have to describe and analyze neoanalytic, Jungian and Individual Psychology Theory Applications. Spending time with you here of course would be much more fun- but it's not doing much to further my education, it's just very amusing is all. Thanks for your time- I am eagerly awaiting to see how you would like to bash me next- 
Edited by trickster j 2016-05-31 10:40 PM
| |
| | |
Too busy outside!
Posts: 5417
| Crickets....... dang........
eta: I gotta share this on my FB page- and all my therapy group pages too-
etaa: No- I won't put it on my personal page, that wouldn't be professional (I'm a Better Business Bureau member, I've got a certificate to prove it). My therapy groups will enjoy it though-
Edited by trickster j 2016-05-31 11:35 PM
| |
| | |
BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25351
Location: Bastrop, Texas | Well, since you asked....
I graduated with a Bachelor's degree in Biology in 3 years from Mayville State University, Mayville, ND.
I was accepted to the Univ of ND School of Medicine at age 19.
I did my residency at the Medical College of Wisconsin in General Surgery (5 yrs)
I did an honorary fellowship at Oxford University as a surgical registrar, under (Professor) Sir Peter Morris, at the John Radcliffe II Hospital, as part of my training.
I completed a one year fellowship in Transplantation at Georgetown University in Washington DC.
I practiced General, vascular, and trauma surgery for 3 years prior to my transplant fellowship.
I started the first transplant program in ND (Fargo) and performed the state's first transplant in 1989. In addition to the kidney program, I continued practicing general, trauma, and vascular surgery.
An injury that involved a severed ulnar nerve in my hand forced me to quit operating in 1998.
Subsequent to that, I taught med school for two years, followed by 10 years as a medical investigator for the PRACS Institute in Fargo, contract research organization (CRO) in the area of pharmaceutical research. During that time, I also was active in primary care medicine, including ER, and remain active on that on a part time basis.
| |
| | |
Too busy outside!
Posts: 5417
| Bear - 2016-05-31 9:51 PM Well, since you asked.... I graduated with a Bachelor's degree in Biology in 3 years from Mayville State University, Mayville, ND. I was accepted to the Univ of ND School of Medicine at age 19. I did my residency at the Medical College of Wisconsin in General Surgery (5 yrs) I did an honorary fellowship at Oxford University as a surgical registrar, under (Professor) Sir Peter Morris, at the John Radcliffe II Hospital, as part of my training. I completed a one year fellowship in Transplantation at Georgetown University in Washington DC. I practiced General, vascular, and trauma surgery for 3 years prior to my transplant fellowship. I started the first transplant program in ND (Fargo) and performed the state's first transplant in 1989. In addition to the kidney program, I continued practicing general, trauma, and vascular surgery. An injury that involved a severed ulnar nerve in my hand forced me to quit operating in 1998. Subsequent to that, I taught med school for two years, followed by 10 years as a medical investigator for the PRACS Institute in Fargo, contract research organization (CRO) in the area of pharmaceutical research. During that time, I also was active in primary care medicine, including ER, and remain active on that on a part time basis.
OK, so that explains why you are a bit outdated when it comes to the application of alternative therapies. Docs from your generation have had a hard time with this subject, I get where you are coming from. Still don't agree with it, and never will, but I understand your mindset and have had to work around folks from your era before- | |
| | |
BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25351
Location: Bastrop, Texas | So, as you can see, your assertions that I have "little education" aren't factually correct. I've been a doctor for 37 years.
Congratulations on your accomplishements in massage. I stand corrected. You are certified. | |
| | |
BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25351
Location: Bastrop, Texas | trickster j - 2016-05-31 11:54 PM
Bear - 2016-05-31 9:51 PM Well, since you asked.... I graduated with a Bachelor's degree in Biology in 3 years from Mayville State University, Mayville, ND. I was accepted to the Univ of ND School of Medicine at age 19. I did my residency at the Medical College of Wisconsin in General Surgery (5 yrs) I did an honorary fellowship at Oxford University as a surgical registrar, under (Professor) Sir Peter Morris, at the John Radcliffe II Hospital, as part of my training. I completed a one year fellowship in Transplantation at Georgetown University in Washington DC. I practiced General, vascular, and trauma surgery for 3 years prior to my transplant fellowship. I started the first transplant program in ND (Fargo) and performed the state's first transplant in 1989. In addition to the kidney program, I continued practicing general, trauma, and vascular surgery. An injury that involved a severed ulnar nerve in my hand forced me to quit operating in 1998. Subsequent to that, I taught med school for two years, followed by 10 years as a medical investigator for the PRACS Institute in Fargo, contract research organization (CRO) in the area of pharmaceutical research. During that time, I also was active in primary care medicine, including ER, and remain active on that on a part time basis.
OK, so that explains why you are a bit outdated when it comes to the application of alternative therapies. Â Docs from your generation have had a hard time with this subject, I get where you are coming from. Â Still don't agree with it, and never will, but I understand your mindset and have had to work around folks from your era before-Â
Yes, and I have taught people from your generation and your mindset before. | |
| | |
BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25351
Location: Bastrop, Texas | "Outdated" probably isn't the word I would use to describe my approach to "alternative medicine". I prefer healthy skepticism, backed by a tendency to rely on sound science and peer reviewed scientific literature. | |
| | |
Too busy outside!
Posts: 5417
| Bear - 2016-05-31 10:02 PM So, as you can see, your assertions that I have "little education" aren't factually correct. I've been a doctor for 37 years. Congratulations on your accomplishements in massage. I stand corrected. You are certified.
Holy cow- (I could say alot more here, but I won't). So do you understand the difference between an equine anatomical and biomechanical specialist vs a human vascular nerve specialist? This is where I think we might need to start........ I'll go slow- | |
| | |
Too busy outside!
Posts: 5417
| Bear - 2016-05-31 10:14 PM "Outdated" probably isn't the word I would use to describe my approach to "alternative medicine". I prefer healthy skepticism, backed by a tendency to rely on sound science and peer reviewed scientific literature.
It's the word I would use- and I like it | |
| | |
Too busy outside!
Posts: 5417
| Bear - 2016-05-31 10:08 PM trickster j - 2016-05-31 11:54 PM Bear - 2016-05-31 9:51 PM Well, since you asked.... I graduated with a Bachelor's degree in Biology in 3 years from Mayville State University, Mayville, ND. I was accepted to the Univ of ND School of Medicine at age 19. I did my residency at the Medical College of Wisconsin in General Surgery (5 yrs) I did an honorary fellowship at Oxford University as a surgical registrar, under (Professor) Sir Peter Morris, at the John Radcliffe II Hospital, as part of my training. I completed a one year fellowship in Transplantation at Georgetown University in Washington DC. I practiced General, vascular, and trauma surgery for 3 years prior to my transplant fellowship. I started the first transplant program in ND (Fargo) and performed the state's first transplant in 1989. In addition to the kidney program, I continued practicing general, trauma, and vascular surgery. An injury that involved a severed ulnar nerve in my hand forced me to quit operating in 1998. Subsequent to that, I taught med school for two years, followed by 10 years as a medical investigator for the PRACS Institute in Fargo, contract research organization (CRO) in the area of pharmaceutical research. During that time, I also was active in primary care medicine, including ER, and remain active on that on a part time basis. OK, so that explains why you are a bit outdated when it comes to the application of alternative therapies. Docs from your generation have had a hard time with this subject, I get where you are coming from. Still don't agree with it, and never will, but I understand your mindset and have had to work around folks from your era before- Yes, and I have taught people from your generation and your mindset before.
eta: this is awesome dialogue- I'm earning post points and stars- maybe someday I will have as many as you and then I'll really be an "expert." Goals and dreams- that's what it's all about......
Edited by trickster j 2016-06-01 12:20 AM
| |
| | |
BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25351
Location: Bastrop, Texas | trickster j - 2016-06-01 12:14 AM
Bear - 2016-05-31 10:02 PM So, as you can see, your assertions that I have "little education" aren't factually correct. I've been a doctor for 37 years. Congratulations on your accomplishements in massage. I stand corrected. You are certified.
Holy cow- (I could say alot more here, but I won't). Â So do you understand the difference between an equine anatomical and biomechanical specialist vs a human vascular nerve specialist? Â This is where I think we might need to start........ Â I'll go slow-
What is a "human vascular nerve specialist"? Is that an alternative medicine term?
| |
| |
| |
Folks on-line