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Industrial Srength Barrel Racer
Posts: 7268
   
| reese_tx - 2016-06-08 8:50 AM
Griz - 2016-06-08 5:18 AM
YEP - my mare does this. I've tried different saddles, different pads, finally treated for ulcers - she is STILL cinchy but maybe not as bad - I think it has become a learned behavior with her, really. I cinch her EXTREMELY slowly - and I have never, ever just pulled it up tight. I tighten a tiny bit, walk her, tighten some more, etc. She isn't AWFUL but I feel a bit like I am un-arming a bomb! It is very nerve-wracking.
ditto - my 6 year old thoroughbred mare does this. I even untie her when I'm cinching now just in case she sits back. She's extremely touchy - she doesn't even really liked to be brushed and certainly not with a stiff brush. I've tried different saddles, pads, girths, chiro, vet check, ulcer treatment.... the only thing that's made a difference is now when I saddle I just put it on her and do one-loop around and don't tighten...go around and do some other things and let her settle with it on.... walk her around...tighten enough to get on.... warm her up and after I feel her loosen up I do some flexing. I DO NOT flex until she's relaxed...if I ask for flex before she's relaxed under the saddle it's stiff/quick movements so I just wait until I feel her relax before asking her to do other things. I can jump on bare back and no problem - i really think it has something to do with the nerve around the cinch as others have mentioned but i am not 100% certain. I'd like to add that she is not sore at all in any pressure points.
Yes, I definitely untie her too - although she has never pulled back, I sure don't want to get that started too! |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 972
Location: Texas! | Griz - 2016-06-08 11:12 AM
reese_tx - 2016-06-08 8:50 AM
Griz - 2016-06-08 5:18 AM
YEP - my mare does this. I've tried different saddles, different pads, finally treated for ulcers - she is STILL cinchy but maybe not as bad - I think it has become a learned behavior with her, really. I cinch her EXTREMELY slowly - and I have never, ever just pulled it up tight. I tighten a tiny bit, walk her, tighten some more, etc. She isn't AWFUL but I feel a bit like I am un-arming a bomb! It is very nerve-wracking.
ditto - my 6 year old thoroughbred mare does this. I even untie her when I'm cinching now just in case she sits back. She's extremely touchy - she doesn't even really liked to be brushed and certainly not with a stiff brush. I've tried different saddles, pads, girths, chiro, vet check, ulcer treatment.... the only thing that's made a difference is now when I saddle I just put it on her and do one-loop around and don't tighten...go around and do some other things and let her settle with it on.... walk her around...tighten enough to get on.... warm her up and after I feel her loosen up I do some flexing. I DO NOT flex until she's relaxed...if I ask for flex before she's relaxed under the saddle it's stiff/quick movements so I just wait until I feel her relax before asking her to do other things. I can jump on bare back and no problem - i really think it has something to do with the nerve around the cinch as others have mentioned but i am not 100% certain. I'd like to add that she is not sore at all in any pressure points.
Yes, I definitely untie her too - although she has never pulled back, I sure don't want to get that started too!
I always untie him bc he does have a habit of setting back so whenever I start to cinch I untie and then walk tighten some more etc. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 972
Location: Texas! | kwanatha - 2016-06-08 9:38 AM
reading a horses mind is definately a process
1) I would start with giving something for ulcers and i would cover front and hind. I like to use ritetrack as it is buffered and will help front and hind. I don't use to cure but it will give them relief very quickly and you will know in a few days if that is your problem.
2) after a few days. I would start on an absorbable magnesium
3) as far as nerve or ribs I would try a surcingle and try it pretty tight taking normal precautions to cinch up slow but tight. just looking to see if the horse doesn't care because it is not a saddle. go ahead and work horse with it on, then check to see if he associates that with pain in a couple days.
4) if surcingle is ok, then have saddle checked to see if the tree is twisted/broke or just not fitting right. if the surcingle was ok but after working he later resents it then i would go with pain and who knows where it is coming from...
5) vet again and take these results to him/her. tests that would be interesting to check out would be pssm 1, 2 and epm. thermal scan of back/wither area. pelvic exam
That's not a bad idea trying a surcingle and eliminating the saddle from the equation. |
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 Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
| I would definitely look into KS (not to sound like a broken record). But... my gelding has mild KS (they don't actual touch but have as there is some damage to 3 processes). He was extremely cinchy and he is an all-around sweet heart and he made some pretty nasty gestures before we got it figured out. I didn't notice so much when I palpated as far as pain reaction but he was super tight over that area.
Have you tried doing belly lifts to see if he gets cranky about it?
Also, just because a horse isn't a surgery candidate due to KS. There is still a lot more that goes into aside from injections. Just my two cents. I have a KS horses and have known a couple over the years. |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 302
Location: W. Pa. | I would be very careful with this type of behavior. I had a very nice 4 year do this. He was a nice quiet horse 99.99% of the time. I had never had any issues and then about 3 months after I bought him I had tied to my trailer at a show. I was saddling him the same as always. I never tighten a cinch all at one time. I always just tighten a little at time and then go do something else. Then I untie to tighten enough to get on. Well I was half through when he blew up. Pulled back on rope an flipped over, I could see it coming so I just got out of his way. Waited until he was done and finished tightening up and got on. No big deal. A year went by with no incidence. Then a year later I was at another show and saddled him same as usual walked him out a bit because that is something I do and then I got on. Then fear struck, I felt him kinda puff up and I thought OMG. he is going to do what he had done a year before at the trailer except I was on him. Just as I thought to get off which was only seconds, he blew. Just threw him self up and over.. I was still in the saddle when he hit the ground. He got up and I did not. I had a broken femur. It was broken off in several pieces right up by my hip joint. Was laid up for a year. Three months of which I was in a wheel chair. My family told me he was pretty stiff the next few days also. My point being, when they do this they don't care if they even hurt themselves. It is a very dangerous situation. Just be very careful and aware that it can happen with you on him. |
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Gettin Jiggy Wit It
Posts: 2734
| I have not read the whole post and this has probably been posted already.. but I had two friends have horses with saddling issues. One would want to lay down after being first saddled and the other, her horse was like yours. A history of bucking when first saddled. He also bucked a few random times during her run. He also kicks in the trailer. I know you have already had x rays taken but both the horses I talked about above were diagnosed with kissing spine. One horse had surgery and is currently in rehab. The other had injections done to see how he responds and will probably have surgery this winter. Good luck with your poor guy. I hope you find some answers. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 972
Location: Texas! | WetSaddleBlankets - 2016-06-08 11:10 PM
I have not read the whole post and this has probably been posted already.. but I had two friends have horses with saddling issues. One would want to lay down after being first saddled and the other, her horse was like yours. A history of bucking when first saddled. He also bucked a few random times during her run. He also kicks in the trailer. I know you have already had x rays taken but both the horses I talked about above were diagnosed with kissing spine. One horse had surgery and is currently in rehab. The other had injections done to see how he responds and will probably have surgery this winter. Good luck with your poor guy. I hope you find some answers.
Yes his was a fly backwards tried to lay down then exploded! Flipping himself over multiple times. |
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 Veteran
Posts: 178
| I've got a mare right now that I'm dealing with this. She has been on ulcerguard for a week, vetted (no kissing spine, everything else looked good, is on regumate). I do suspect ulcers, however have not seen much improvement after a week so far. She is annoyed at being saddled, but doesn't act out. She lunges fine and I take my time girthing her up. Everything is good until you get on and ask her to move. I've worked on her standing while I get on (she used to just want to walk/run/spin circles) and that's better, but she freezes up. I cluck, kiss, anything to get her to move without having to put a leg on her bc once I do, look out. Once I get past the first 5 minutes of the "episode", she rides off fine and doesn't offer to do any funny (or not so funny) business after that. It's frustrating and dangerous. The lady that had her let it escalate to this point. |
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Common Sense and then some
Location: So. California | WYOracer - 2016-06-09 1:24 PM WetSaddleBlankets - 2016-06-08 11:10 PM I have not read the whole post and this has probably been posted already.. but I had two friends have horses with saddling issues. One would want to lay down after being first saddled and the other, her horse was like yours. A history of bucking when first saddled. He also bucked a few random times during her run. He also kicks in the trailer. I know you have already had x rays taken but both the horses I talked about above were diagnosed with kissing spine. One horse had surgery and is currently in rehab. The other had injections done to see how he responds and will probably have surgery this winter. Good luck with your poor guy. I hope you find some answers. Yes his was a fly backwards tried to lay down then exploded! Flipping himself over multiple times.
I would not saddle or ride this horse until you go back to the vet. This horse is screaming pain. The injections didnt work or he wasnt given enough time off. KS doesnt correct itself, this horse needs medical intervention. Find the best clinic in your area and take your horse there. Look for a vet with experience treating KS and keep us updated, Good luck!!! |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 972
Location: Texas! | Went into the vet today we saddled my gelding and he did not explode but definitely was uncomfortable and moved stiff and was reluctant to move forward. Vet checked under the saddle didn't feel that was an issue. He was better in the two places that we injected but was sore everywhere inbetween so we re-examined the radiographs and decided to inject the spaces between the original injections. Three more places today. Also, wants to shockwave if this does not give him any relief and talked about sending the X-rays to Dr. Honnas for him the review as well. He mentioned potentially doing a bone scan if this doesn't help to rule out anyplace that we aren't seeing. He's 10 days off with muscle relaxers to try and break up the muscles along his back that are tight and spasming. Any ideas on cost of surgery and what the lay up or recovery is for those that have had it done? |
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 Don't Wanna Make This Awkward
Posts: 3106
Location: Texas | WYOracer - 2016-06-10 11:39 AM Went into the vet today we saddled my gelding and he did not explode but definitely was uncomfortable and moved stiff and was reluctant to move forward. Vet checked under the saddle didn't feel that was an issue. He was better in the two places that we injected but was sore everywhere inbetween so we re-examined the radiographs and decided to inject the spaces between the original injections. Three more places today. Also, wants to shockwave if this does not give him any relief and talked about sending the X-rays to Dr. Honnas for him the review as well. He mentioned potentially doing a bone scan if this doesn't help to rule out anyplace that we aren't seeing. He's 10 days off with muscle relaxers to try and break up the muscles along his back that are tight and spasming. Any ideas on cost of surgery and what the lay up or recovery is for those that have had it done?
What vets have you seen and where in texas are you located? |
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 Ms. Poutability
Posts: 2362
Location: In my own world | WYOracer - 2016-06-10 11:39 AM Went into the vet today we saddled my gelding and he did not explode but definitely was uncomfortable and moved stiff and was reluctant to move forward. Vet checked under the saddle didn't feel that was an issue. He was better in the two places that we injected but was sore everywhere inbetween so we re-examined the radiographs and decided to inject the spaces between the original injections. Three more places today. Also, wants to shockwave if this does not give him any relief and talked about sending the X-rays to Dr. Honnas for him the review as well. He mentioned potentially doing a bone scan if this doesn't help to rule out anyplace that we aren't seeing. He's 10 days off with muscle relaxers to try and break up the muscles along his back that are tight and spasming. Any ideas on cost of surgery and what the lay up or recovery is for those that have had it done?
Surgery with dr Honnas is about $4000 and about 4 months off |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 972
Location: Texas! | outrundaizy - 2016-06-11 12:04 AM
WYOracer - 2016-06-10 11:39 AM Went into the vet today we saddled my gelding and he did not explode but definitely was uncomfortable and moved stiff and was reluctant to move forward. Vet checked under the saddle didn't feel that was an issue. He was better in the two places that we injected but was sore everywhere inbetween so we re-examined the radiographs and decided to inject the spaces between the original injections. Three more places today. Also, wants to shockwave if this does not give him any relief and talked about sending the X-rays to Dr. Honnas for him the review as well. He mentioned potentially doing a bone scan if this doesn't help to rule out anyplace that we aren't seeing. He's 10 days off with muscle relaxers to try and break up the muscles along his back that are tight and spasming. Any ideas on cost of surgery and what the lay up or recovery is for those that have had it done?
What vets have you seen and where in texas are you located?
Dr. Jeff Foland at Weatherford Equine and Dr. Ford was the first vet to see him but only thought he was sore in his front right and left shoulder. Thought more was going on so made a follow up with Jeff when we got home. I live south of Graham about an hour from Weatherford.
Edited by WYOracer 2016-06-11 12:46 PM
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 972
Location: Texas! | livinonlove&horses - 2016-06-11 6:20 AM
WYOracer - 2016-06-10 11:39 AM Went into the vet today we saddled my gelding and he did not explode but definitely was uncomfortable and moved stiff and was reluctant to move forward. Vet checked under the saddle didn't feel that was an issue. He was better in the two places that we injected but was sore everywhere inbetween so we re-examined the radiographs and decided to inject the spaces between the original injections. Three more places today. Also, wants to shockwave if this does not give him any relief and talked about sending the X-rays to Dr. Honnas for him the review as well. He mentioned potentially doing a bone scan if this doesn't help to rule out anyplace that we aren't seeing. He's 10 days off with muscle relaxers to try and break up the muscles along his back that are tight and spasming. Any ideas on cost of surgery and what the lay up or recovery is for those that have had it done?
Surgery with dr Honnas is about $4000 and about 4 months off
What's the rehab that you went through? |
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 Thick and Wavy
Posts: 6102
Location: Nebraska | WYOracer - 2016-06-11 12:44 PM livinonlove&horses - 2016-06-11 6:20 AM WYOracer - 2016-06-10 11:39 AM Went into the vet today we saddled my gelding and he did not explode but definitely was uncomfortable and moved stiff and was reluctant to move forward. Vet checked under the saddle didn't feel that was an issue. He was better in the two places that we injected but was sore everywhere inbetween so we re-examined the radiographs and decided to inject the spaces between the original injections. Three more places today. Also, wants to shockwave if this does not give him any relief and talked about sending the X-rays to Dr. Honnas for him the review as well. He mentioned potentially doing a bone scan if this doesn't help to rule out anyplace that we aren't seeing. He's 10 days off with muscle relaxers to try and break up the muscles along his back that are tight and spasming. Any ideas on cost of surgery and what the lay up or recovery is for those that have had it done? Surgery with dr Honnas is about $4000 and about 4 months off What's the rehab that you went through?
I am interested as well. How did the horse come back? |
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Don't Wanna Make This Awkward
Posts: 3106
Location: Texas | WYOracer - 2016-06-11 12:41 PM outrundaizy - 2016-06-11 12:04 AM WYOracer - 2016-06-10 11:39 AM Went into the vet today we saddled my gelding and he did not explode but definitely was uncomfortable and moved stiff and was reluctant to move forward. Vet checked under the saddle didn't feel that was an issue. He was better in the two places that we injected but was sore everywhere inbetween so we re-examined the radiographs and decided to inject the spaces between the original injections. Three more places today. Also, wants to shockwave if this does not give him any relief and talked about sending the X-rays to Dr. Honnas for him the review as well. He mentioned potentially doing a bone scan if this doesn't help to rule out anyplace that we aren't seeing. He's 10 days off with muscle relaxers to try and break up the muscles along his back that are tight and spasming. Any ideas on cost of surgery and what the lay up or recovery is for those that have had it done? What vets have you seen and where in texas are you located? Dr. Jeff Foland at Weatherford Equine and Dr. Ford was the first vet to see him but only thought he was sore in his front right and left shoulder. Thought more was going on so made a follow up with Jeff when we got home. I live south of Graham about an hour from Weatherford.
If you want to get a third opinion I would highly suggest Jessica Garrett, she is with Stephenville Equine and use to work at Lonestar park with Dr. Wes Williams. She is a barrel racer and she is an amazing vet! |
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  Living on the edge of common sense
Posts: 24138
Location: Carpenter, WY | We had one do that a long time ago and finally figuered out it was the neoprene cinch that was pulling the long winter coat. I think we threw it in the dumpster and haven't had any more problems with anyone |
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Industrial Srength Barrel Racer
Posts: 7268
| teehaha - 2016-06-14 9:41 AM
We had one do that a long time ago and finally figuered out it was the neoprene cinch that was pulling the long winter coat. I think we threw it in the dumpster and haven't had any more problems with anyone
I won't use neoprene anything, only use mohair cinches. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 695
Location: Windoming | Griz - 2016-06-14 10:04 AM teehaha - 2016-06-14 9:41 AM We had one do that a long time ago and finally figuered out it was the neoprene cinch that was pulling the long winter coat. I think we threw it in the dumpster and haven't had any more problems with anyone I won't use neoprene anything, only use mohair cinches.
I had the opposite problem. I was using mohair cinches when my horse started getting mean about being cinched. He wanted to hurt me! I switched to the neoprene and he is back to normal. Go figure. |
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