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 Accident Prone
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Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | RockinGR - 2016-10-27 12:14 PM Three 4 Luck - 2016-10-27 11:57 AM RockinGR - 2016-10-27 11:46 AM Three 4 Luck - 2016-10-27 11:29 AM RockinGR - 2016-10-27 11:21 AM I'm prefacing my post, stating that I am not a Nutrena fan because of their history of problems. But I do feel that a few things need cleared up for those that are making assumptions about feed in general. Disclaimer: this is not a defense for any of the issues at hand, merely some education for those that do not know... In general, feeds that are labeled as "all stock" or "safe for all classes of livestock" including horses, merely means that they are formulated to be such. They are more than likely produced in facilities that also produce and bag medicated feeds. There are guidelines in place and regulations for flushing and cleaning the lines out. But that's all they are. There are limited testing regulations in place (mostly just generalized batch testing). Most facilities do not have the resources (equipment and staff) to test inbound ingredients from each and every truck, beyond the initial probe that is taken on the scale. There are no regulations for trucks that say they HAVE to wash out their trucks between loads--bulk haulers should do a "flush" with another feed after a medicated load, before hauling a horse feed, but it's not regulated or tested. There are no guarantees of zero presence of potential toxins. It's not possible. Even on different lines within the same facilities it's just not 100% possible. It takes less than 1 gram of monensin to kill a 1200# horse. The only way to safeguard yourself and your horses is to feed a product from a 100% horse safe facility that does not share staff with a non-horse facility. Period. Also, to those that claim you feed oats or your own mix or blah blah blah to keep this from happening...where are your oats or ingredients sourced from? Where were they bagged. I've worked for "all species" companies and we bagged single ingredients...on the same lines (after regulated flushes) that the medicated feeds were bagged on. There are safe products out there, don't mis-read me. But do you know where yours came from? The feed companies should not be labeling these feeds for horses if there's a chance for contamination. It is not against regulation to do so. It can be your opinion that they shouldn't, but they are well within regulation. If it was your way, no local feed mill would ever be able to make up a paying customers custom horse feed for them. You can regulate what comes in your barn by being educated about what are safe facilities. You cannot demand that the industry as a whole conform to your standards. You can petition your politicians to propose regulation standards requirements...but now we're getting government more involved and limiting choices. Is that really the direction you want to go rather than just regulating your own choices and patronizing companies that already fall into those lines?
No, I never said anything about govt. involvement or regulations. FEED COMPANIES SHOULD DO THE RIGHT THING all on their own. |
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| RockinGR - 2016-10-27 12:14 PM
Three 4 Luck - 2016-10-27 11:57 AM
RockinGR - 2016-10-27 11:46 AM Three 4 Luck - 2016-10-27 11:29 AM RockinGR - 2016-10-27 11:21 AM I'm prefacing my post, stating that I am not a Nutrena fan because of their history of problems. But I do feel that a few things need cleared up for those that are making assumptions about feed in general. Disclaimer: this is not a defense for any of the issues at hand, merely some education for those that do not know... In general, feeds that are labeled as "all stock" or "safe for all classes of livestock" including horses, merely means that they are formulated to be such. They are more than likely produced in facilities that also produce and bag medicated feeds. There are guidelines in place and regulations for flushing and cleaning the lines out. But that's all they are. There are limited testing regulations in place (mostly just generalized batch testing). Most facilities do not have the resources (equipment and staff) to test inbound ingredients from each and every truck, beyond the initial probe that is taken on the scale. There are no regulations for trucks that say they HAVE to wash out their trucks between loads--bulk haulers should do a "flush" with another feed after a medicated load, before hauling a horse feed, but it's not regulated or tested. There are no guarantees of zero presence of potential toxins. It's not possible. Even on different lines within the same facilities it's just not 100% possible. It takes less than 1 gram of monensin to kill a 1200# horse. The only way to safeguard yourself and your horses is to feed a product from a 100% horse safe facility that does not share staff with a non-horse facility. Period. Also, to those that claim you feed oats or your own mix or blah blah blah to keep this from happening...where are your oats or ingredients sourced from? Where were they bagged. I've worked for "all species" companies and we bagged single ingredients...on the same lines (after regulated flushes) that the medicated feeds were bagged on. There are safe products out there, don't mis-read me. But do you know where yours came from? The feed companies should not be labeling these feeds for horses if there's a chance for contamination. Â It is not against regulation to do so. It can be your opinion that they shouldn't, but they are well within regulation. If it was your way, no local feed mill would ever be able to make up a paying customers custom horse feed for them.
You can regulate what comes in your barn by being educated about what are safe facilities. You cannot demand that the industry as a whole conform to your standards. You can petition your politicians to propose regulation standards requirements...but now we're getting government more involved and limiting choices. Is that really the direction you want to go rather than just regulating your own choices and patronizing companies that already fall into those lines?
What do you do when they won't give you a straight up answer to the questions you ask? Several companies make you drag it out of them that yes, they do produce horse feed and medicated cattle feed at the same mill, if they admit it at all. That is just wrong. If they don't want more regulation, maybe they better be a little more forth coming with the information horse owners need to make informed decisions about what we are feeding our horses. |
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 Hummer's Hero
Posts: 3071
Location: Smack Dab in the Middle | Three 4 Luck - 2016-10-27 12:17 PM
RockinGR - 2016-10-27 12:14 PM Three 4 Luck - 2016-10-27 11:57 AM RockinGR - 2016-10-27 11:46 AM Three 4 Luck - 2016-10-27 11:29 AM RockinGR - 2016-10-27 11:21 AM I'm prefacing my post, stating that I am not a Nutrena fan because of their history of problems. But I do feel that a few things need cleared up for those that are making assumptions about feed in general. Disclaimer: this is not a defense for any of the issues at hand, merely some education for those that do not know... In general, feeds that are labeled as "all stock" or "safe for all classes of livestock" including horses, merely means that they are formulated to be such. They are more than likely produced in facilities that also produce and bag medicated feeds. There are guidelines in place and regulations for flushing and cleaning the lines out. But that's all they are. There are limited testing regulations in place (mostly just generalized batch testing). Most facilities do not have the resources (equipment and staff) to test inbound ingredients from each and every truck, beyond the initial probe that is taken on the scale. There are no regulations for trucks that say they HAVE to wash out their trucks between loads--bulk haulers should do a "flush" with another feed after a medicated load, before hauling a horse feed, but it's not regulated or tested. There are no guarantees of zero presence of potential toxins. It's not possible. Even on different lines within the same facilities it's just not 100% possible. It takes less than 1 gram of monensin to kill a 1200# horse. The only way to safeguard yourself and your horses is to feed a product from a 100% horse safe facility that does not share staff with a non-horse facility. Period. Also, to those that claim you feed oats or your own mix or blah blah blah to keep this from happening...where are your oats or ingredients sourced from? Where were they bagged. I've worked for "all species" companies and we bagged single ingredients...on the same lines (after regulated flushes) that the medicated feeds were bagged on. There are safe products out there, don't mis-read me. But do you know where yours came from? The feed companies should not be labeling these feeds for horses if there's a chance for contamination. Â It is not against regulation to do so. It can be your opinion that they shouldn't, but they are well within regulation. If it was your way, no local feed mill would ever be able to make up a paying customers custom horse feed for them. You can regulate what comes in your barn by being educated about what are safe facilities. You cannot demand that the industry as a whole conform to your standards. You can petition your politicians to propose regulation standards requirements...but now we're getting government more involved and limiting choices. Is that really the direction you want to go rather than just regulating your own choices and patronizing companies that already fall into those lines?
There ARE companies that do it that way. You just have to find them. Not all companies will fit that ticket...some because they do not have to, some because they cannot afford to. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 1161
Location: East Texas | 3canstorun - 2016-10-27 8:03 AM hoofs_in_motion - 2016-10-27 8:59 AM I wonder if nutrena is gonna fork out all the money to reimburse the owners on the cost of the horse that died due to their tainted feed? In your dreams - ADM didn't.
Nor did triple crown for my issue! I didnt loose my guy, but after two weeks at a equine hospital and almost loosing him several times.. they wouldnt do a thing.. I had all the proof and feed results to prove it. |
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 Midget Lover
Location: Kentucky | Run n on faith - 2016-10-27 1:33 PM 3canstorun - 2016-10-27 8:03 AM hoofs_in_motion - 2016-10-27 8:59 AM I wonder if nutrena is gonna fork out all the money to reimburse the owners on the cost of the horse that died due to their tainted feed? In your dreams - ADM didn't.
They wouldn't do anything for mine. They blamed it on my water. Even though Louisville has notoriously the best water in the nation, and it was recently tested. |
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 Hugs to You
Posts: 7550
Location: In The Land of Cotton | RockinGR - 2016-10-27 1:14 PM Three 4 Luck - 2016-10-27 11:57 AM RockinGR - 2016-10-27 11:46 AM Three 4 Luck - 2016-10-27 11:29 AM RockinGR - 2016-10-27 11:21 AM I'm prefacing my post, stating that I am not a Nutrena fan because of their history of problems. But I do feel that a few things need cleared up for those that are making assumptions about feed in general. Disclaimer: this is not a defense for any of the issues at hand, merely some education for those that do not know... In general, feeds that are labeled as "all stock" or "safe for all classes of livestock" including horses, merely means that they are formulated to be such. They are more than likely produced in facilities that also produce and bag medicated feeds. There are guidelines in place and regulations for flushing and cleaning the lines out. But that's all they are. There are limited testing regulations in place (mostly just generalized batch testing). Most facilities do not have the resources (equipment and staff) to test inbound ingredients from each and every truck, beyond the initial probe that is taken on the scale. There are no regulations for trucks that say they HAVE to wash out their trucks between loads--bulk haulers should do a "flush" with another feed after a medicated load, before hauling a horse feed, but it's not regulated or tested. There are no guarantees of zero presence of potential toxins. It's not possible. Even on different lines within the same facilities it's just not 100% possible. It takes less than 1 gram of monensin to kill a 1200# horse. The only way to safeguard yourself and your horses is to feed a product from a 100% horse safe facility that does not share staff with a non-horse facility. Period. Also, to those that claim you feed oats or your own mix or blah blah blah to keep this from happening...where are your oats or ingredients sourced from? Where were they bagged. I've worked for "all species" companies and we bagged single ingredients...on the same lines (after regulated flushes) that the medicated feeds were bagged on. There are safe products out there, don't mis-read me. But do you know where yours came from? The feed companies should not be labeling these feeds for horses if there's a chance for contamination. It is not against regulation to do so. It can be your opinion that they shouldn't, but they are well within regulation. If it was your way, no local feed mill would ever be able to make up a paying customers custom horse feed for them. You can regulate what comes in your barn by being educated about what are safe facilities. You cannot demand that the industry as a whole conform to your standards. You can petition your politicians to propose regulation standards requirements...but now we're getting government more involved and limiting choices. Is that really the direction you want to go rather than just regulating your own choices and patronizing companies that already fall into those lines?
The direction any of them should go - the feed companies - is don't use monensin in the same plant. On the warning label for monensin it says it is unsafe for horses. It will kill them.
So when we get an answer back from feed companies that there is no FDA requirements or levels on this product, it is being irresponsible. The feed companies are to blame because they are using the FDA as a scape goat. And, killing horses. |
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Hummer's Hero
Posts: 3071
Location: Smack Dab in the Middle | 3canstorun - 2016-10-27 12:47 PM
RockinGR - 2016-10-27 1:14 PM Three 4 Luck - 2016-10-27 11:57 AM RockinGR - 2016-10-27 11:46 AM Three 4 Luck - 2016-10-27 11:29 AM RockinGR - 2016-10-27 11:21 AM I'm prefacing my post, stating that I am not a Nutrena fan because of their history of problems. But I do feel that a few things need cleared up for those that are making assumptions about feed in general. Disclaimer: this is not a defense for any of the issues at hand, merely some education for those that do not know... In general, feeds that are labeled as "all stock" or "safe for all classes of livestock" including horses, merely means that they are formulated to be such. They are more than likely produced in facilities that also produce and bag medicated feeds. There are guidelines in place and regulations for flushing and cleaning the lines out. But that's all they are. There are limited testing regulations in place (mostly just generalized batch testing). Most facilities do not have the resources (equipment and staff) to test inbound ingredients from each and every truck, beyond the initial probe that is taken on the scale. There are no regulations for trucks that say they HAVE to wash out their trucks between loads--bulk haulers should do a "flush" with another feed after a medicated load, before hauling a horse feed, but it's not regulated or tested. There are no guarantees of zero presence of potential toxins. It's not possible. Even on different lines within the same facilities it's just not 100% possible. It takes less than 1 gram of monensin to kill a 1200# horse. The only way to safeguard yourself and your horses is to feed a product from a 100% horse safe facility that does not share staff with a non-horse facility. Period. Also, to those that claim you feed oats or your own mix or blah blah blah to keep this from happening...where are your oats or ingredients sourced from? Where were they bagged. I've worked for "all species" companies and we bagged single ingredients...on the same lines (after regulated flushes) that the medicated feeds were bagged on. There are safe products out there, don't mis-read me. But do you know where yours came from? The feed companies should not be labeling these feeds for horses if there's a chance for contamination. Â It is not against regulation to do so. It can be your opinion that they shouldn't, but they are well within regulation. If it was your way, no local feed mill would ever be able to make up a paying customers custom horse feed for them. You can regulate what comes in your barn by being educated about what are safe facilities. You cannot demand that the industry as a whole conform to your standards. You can petition your politicians to propose regulation standards requirements...but now we're getting government more involved and limiting choices. Is that really the direction you want to go rather than just regulating your own choices and patronizing companies that already fall into those lines?
So when we get an answer back from feed companies that there is no FDA requirements or levels on this product, it is being irresponsible. The feed companies are to blame because they are using the FDA as a scape goat.  And, killing horses. Â
I'm not necessarily disagreeing with anyone here. I'm simply stating what the regulations are and how things can get contaminated. I'm not defending the companies, just telling why things are the way that they are.
Personally, even with education and ability to formulate my own feeds... I buy all of my horse feed from a reputable company, that does have above industry standards and testing in place, and manufactured in a horse only facility. For all the reasons being stated here... |
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Miracle in the Making
Posts: 4013
| i would be buy oats |
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Regular
Posts: 57
| Have any of the companies involved had a lawsuit filed against them? Just wondering, seems like if just one of them lost a lawsuit it would make all of them take notice. I do agree if you just do not by the feed sales would be low and could even cause that product to be discontinued but that is a long shot. To many uneducated horse owners that just go to the local feed store and by the cheapest feed that they have on hand. Many of them probably do not know there is a probably with toxins being in the feed. |
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 Expert
Posts: 2258
| I am mixing my own I get my oats straight from the field into my own bulk bags, the rest of my ingredients are non gmo human grade food products, and alfalfa pellets milled in a safe mill. I also bought my own mixer and will have my own pellet machine next year so that my feed can be made completely on my place. It is undergoing a full analysis and will be bagged and labled for anyone else who Iam sharing with. I understand there are limitations to what we can do as far as safety of single ingredients but trying to do my best for my herd . |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 883
Location: Southern Indiana | NJBBH - 2016-10-27 2:00 PM
Have any of the companies involved had a lawsuit filed against them? Just wondering, seems like if just one of them lost a lawsuit it would make all of them take notice. I do agree if you just do not by the feed sales would be low and could even cause that product to be discontinued but that is a long shot. To many uneducated horse owners that just go to the local feed store and by the cheapest feed that they have on hand. Many of them probably do not know there is a probably with toxins being in the feed.
I just went back and read the law suit against tribute because that's what I feed and they settled out court. The law suit and FDA found that they clearly lied in their claims and they never denied nor admitted it.
It's hard to know what to do when they are all feeding us lies.
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 Expert
Posts: 2097
Location: Deep South | SillyFilly55 - 2016-10-27 3:04 PM
 Well, crap! I just got my horses changed over to Tribute. Guess I need to find another feed. My problem is being on N MS, a safe quality feed for performance horses is very limited.
Seminole Feed should be offered in your area and they are 100% ionophore free. |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 533
Location: Mississippi | Â It's not. I've never seen it in any of the Feed stores around this area.e |
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Expert
Posts: 1226
| Did they do a necropsy to determine if that was the cause of death. |
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| READ the simple information on the sack ...
and this does not show what ingredients are actually in the feed ..
After all the feed posts on BHW I can't believe anyone with a horse
would buy this stuff ...
Then I get trashed for adding some chopped corn to my whole
oats and alfalfa feeding program ...
It is a sad situation is all I can say ..
 (WRANGLER FEED 150.jpg)
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 WRANGLER FEED 150.jpg (96KB - 170 downloads)
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 My Heart Be Happy
Posts: 9159
Location: Arkansas | hoofs_in_motion - 2016-10-27 8:29 AM
Gunner11 - 2016-10-27 8:22 AM 3canstorun - 2016-10-27 8:03 AM hoofs_in_motion - 2016-10-27 8:59 AM I wonder if nutrena is gonna fork out all the money to reimburse the owners on the cost of the horse that died due to their tainted feed? In your dreams - ADM didn't. They'll deny, deny, deny, just like ADM did. They'll find something else to place the blame on.
Of course not, probably political party at fault. But like Hilary said, what does it matter now. This makes me want to jump up and down and cuss and scream for the pain these horses and owners are going thru. . . . So so sorry |
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My Heart Be Happy
Posts: 9159
Location: Arkansas | RockinGR - 2016-10-27 12:53 PM
3canstorun - 2016-10-27 12:47 PM
RockinGR - 2016-10-27 1:14 PM Three 4 Luck - 2016-10-27 11:57 AM RockinGR - 2016-10-27 11:46 AM Three 4 Luck - 2016-10-27 11:29 AM RockinGR - 2016-10-27 11:21 AM I'm prefacing my post, stating that I am not a Nutrena fan because of their history of problems. But I do feel that a few things need cleared up for those that are making assumptions about feed in general. Disclaimer: this is not a defense for any of the issues at hand, merely some education for those that do not know... In general, feeds that are labeled as "all stock" or "safe for all classes of livestock" including horses, merely means that they are formulated to be such. They are more than likely produced in facilities that also produce and bag medicated feeds. There are guidelines in place and regulations for flushing and cleaning the lines out. But that's all they are. There are limited testing regulations in place (mostly just generalized batch testing). Most facilities do not have the resources (equipment and staff) to test inbound ingredients from each and every truck, beyond the initial probe that is taken on the scale. There are no regulations for trucks that say they HAVE to wash out their trucks between loads--bulk haulers should do a "flush" with another feed after a medicated load, before hauling a horse feed, but it's not regulated or tested. There are no guarantees of zero presence of potential toxins. It's not possible. Even on different lines within the same facilities it's just not 100% possible. It takes less than 1 gram of monensin to kill a 1200# horse. The only way to safeguard yourself and your horses is to feed a product from a 100% horse safe facility that does not share staff with a non-horse facility. Period. Also, to those that claim you feed oats or your own mix or blah blah blah to keep this from happening...where are your oats or ingredients sourced from? Where were they bagged. I've worked for "all species" companies and we bagged single ingredients...on the same lines (after regulated flushes) that the medicated feeds were bagged on. There are safe products out there, don't mis-read me. But do you know where yours came from? The feed companies should not be labeling these feeds for horses if there's a chance for contamination. Â It is not against regulation to do so. It can be your opinion that they shouldn't, but they are well within regulation. If it was your way, no local feed mill would ever be able to make up a paying customers custom horse feed for them. You can regulate what comes in your barn by being educated about what are safe facilities. You cannot demand that the industry as a whole conform to your standards. You can petition your politicians to propose regulation standards requirements...but now we're getting government more involved and limiting choices. Is that really the direction you want to go rather than just regulating your own choices and patronizing companies that already fall into those lines?
So when we get an answer back from feed companies that there is no FDA requirements or levels on this product, it is being irresponsible. The feed companies are to blame because they are using the FDA as a scape goat.  And, killing horses. Â
I'm not necessarily disagreeing with anyone here. I'm simply stating what the regulations are and how things can get contaminated. I'm not defending the companies, just telling why things are the way that they are.
Personally, even with education and ability to formulate my own feeds... I buy all of my horse feed from a reputable company, that does have above industry standards and testing in place, and manufactured in a horse only facility. For all the reasons being stated here...
What do you feed? You may have said and I missed it. . . . |
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 Expert
Posts: 2159
Location: NW. Florida | BARRELHORSE USA - 2016-10-27 5:36 PM READ the simple information on the sack ... and this does not show what ingredients are actually in the feed .. After all the feed posts on BHW I can't believe anyone with a horse would buy this stuff ... Then I get trashed for adding some chopped corn to my whole oats and alfalfa feeding program ... It is a sad situation is all I can say ..
BHUSA, I'm on the same program as you. My horses look better in the winter than most of theirs during the summer. I'll keep on using what works for me. |
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A Cool Sharp One
| has there been an autopsy done to confirm that it was feed toxicity? |
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Expert
Posts: 1694
Location: Willows, CA | I think everyone has choices of safe feed in their market area if they do a little homework. Ask the maker of your feed if there are any medicated ingredients on the mill property. That is about the best that you can do. As to the question of contaminated ingredients, that is a good reason not to feed mixes that include grain byproduct ingredients used in cattle feed. |
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Folks on-line