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 I don't want to screw up!
Posts: 3881
    
Location: North Dakota -> Colorado | astreakinchic - 2017-02-08 1:33 PM CanCan - 2017-02-08 12:48 PM ND3canAddict - 2017-02-08 11:27 AM I think the prices are a little nuts for almost everything. I've been looking for a "broke" 3-4 yo mare for my daughter, IMO, our budget is reasonable. There are a ton of them that are GD, or GGDs of "somebody," that are riding green to decent for $7500-10,000. I understand the owners think they are ate up with potential, but I think they're worth $3500. I don't inquire if they are that far off the budget. Many times I assume they will be $5k or less, so I ask because the ads aren't priced. They tell me $10k (or more) and then try to hard sell me or tell my my budget isn't reasonable. Which, of course, ****es me off- I know there are very nice horses out there that fit the bill and are within my budget. I will wait- I have more time than money.
207 views. I guess we are the vast minority. Or everyone else is elling a horse. LOL. No you are not the minority. The market is good right now and I feel like everyone has inflated their prices because of it. Just because you paid a $1500 stud fee on ol leroy and you fed him and raised him for 3-6 years does not mean I'm going to pay 10k for him as an UNHAULED basically 7 yr old. It's nuts! But horses are worth what someone is willing to pay. I don't think most people understand this but IMO after the age of 4 yrs those own sons and daughters drastically decrease in price range for people in my area because we don't have high paying derbies in the south. Also, I too saw that 80k ad and I'm like uhhh surely this is a mistake. For 80k you can buy horses that will be at the american semi's My views on prices on Open Horses: 1D anywhere - name your price 1D consistent occasionally 2D - 20k (if your lucky ) all the way up to 250k 2D consistent big show 7500-15k 3D consistent big show 5-15k (depending on possibility of different rider making them clock faster, mind, are they a teacher for a child, etc ) 4D consistent big show 2-10k (are these teachers, maintenance issues with age if they are teachers, etc ) Embryos to Yearlings: To me based off dam (producer, her earnings, etc ) and stud fee along with throwing in care fees. 2yrs olds- 4yr ols: Where your prospects are worth the most! anywhere from 2k-200k LOL After that they start decreasing for me because derbies don't pay as much and they probably were started but didn't make the grade, put on the back burner etc... Doesn't mean they can't make amazing open horses I just think it factors into price unless they are really coming on. Remember things are worth what someone will pay though!
I LOVE THIS!!!!!  | |
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 Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
| I have noticed the same thing 7-9 year olds which in my experience are harder to teach to a job, are 5-7k and I just cant do it. Prices are high and as exciting as that is, I wonder how people afford this sport. I am capable of training a horse but am by no means a professional trainer. I have had to buy unbroke if I want something decently papered.
In general though, I am annoyed that a decently bred horse sits in the pasture until they are 7,8,9 and were broke but years ago. Just seems like a waste. | |
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 Expert
Posts: 5293
| stayceem - 2017-02-09 9:03 AM
I have noticed the same thing 7-9 year olds which in my experience are harder to teach to a job, are 5-7k and I just cant do it. Prices are high and as exciting as that is, I wonder how people afford this sport. I am capable of training a horse but am by no means a professional trainer. I have had to buy unbroke if I want something decently papered.
In general though, I am annoyed that a decently bred horse sits in the pasture until they are 7,8,9 and were broke but years ago. Just seems like a waste.
See, I find quite the opposite. The 7-9 year old group is MUCH easier to train. THey are more focused, not babies, etc. Don't need the drills etc. Just show them their job and let them do it. | |
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Expert
Posts: 1432
| FLITASTIC - 2017-02-09 10:05 AM stayceem - 2017-02-09 9:03 AM I have noticed the same thing 7-9 year olds which in my experience are harder to teach to a job, are 5-7k and I just cant do it. Prices are high and as exciting as that is, I wonder how people afford this sport. I am capable of training a horse but am by no means a professional trainer. I have had to buy unbroke if I want something decently papered. In general though, I am annoyed that a decently bred horse sits in the pasture until they are 7,8,9 and were broke but years ago. Just seems like a waste. See, I find quite the opposite. The 7-9 year old group is MUCH easier to train. THey are more focused, not babies, etc. Don't need the drills etc. Just show them their job and let them do it.
Edited by 3TurnsonSpud 2017-02-09 8:48 PM
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 898
Location: Idaho | Silly Filly - 2017-02-09 10:43 AM
IRunOnFaith - 2017-02-08 11:39 AM I found a WEANLING filly the other day advertised at $80,000. Both Grandsires were big names but a little older in popularity. Sire has a 2017 stud fee of only $750 with no incentives. Dam has no show records available to view. Foal is signed up for no incentives...
I guess they're worth whatever you want them to be worth now-a-days. 
Ahaha, I saw two new born foals the other day listed for 12,000 and 18,000.. I didn't even recognize the sires name. I was like.. people must be off their rocker.
Although I did see a beautiful dapple gray 3 year old gelding by Streaking Ta Fame for $3500, bred super nice. If I wasn't moving in a few months, I would have snatched him right up! | |
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Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
| FLITASTIC - 2017-02-09 11:05 AM
stayceem - 2017-02-09 9:03 AM
I have noticed the same thing 7-9 year olds which in my experience are harder to teach to a job, are 5-7k and I just cant do it. Prices are high and as exciting as that is, I wonder how people afford this sport. I am capable of training a horse but am by no means a professional trainer. I have had to buy unbroke if I want something decently papered.
In general though, I am annoyed that a decently bred horse sits in the pasture until they are 7,8,9 and were broke but years ago. Just seems like a waste.
See, I find quite the opposite. The 7-9 year old group is MUCH easier to train. THey are more focused, not babies, etc. Don't need the drills etc. Just show them their job and let them do it.
My experience with these horses have been trail horses or basic riding horses. They weren't taught the fundamentals for barrels and in my experience, they are more mature minded and physically more mature but they also have somewhat learned what they want to do. I have seen and worked with a few horses who were never asked of much and it was hard for them to get that competitive edge or desire to exert a lot of effort.
I don't start them young as I like them to be physically ready but I still think them learning to "work" at 4 vs 8 makes a big difference. And when I say work, I don't mean barrels. Also I find it harder for them to learn how to control their body when they are older. Building that muscle and getting good balance. I broke my gelding as a late 6 year old and he struggled for a long time at a lope. He had so much body to control, he just couldn't keep himself organized. It took longer than most 3-4 year olds.
Just in my experience horses who are 7, 8, 9 and haven't been started in a "job" yet usually aren't broke the best either. They are rideable but as we know, rideable and truly broke are different. Obviously exceptions but that's my experience. | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 507
Location: Lost in the corn of Iowa. | Really love this thread!! But to also add, yes the horse market is extremely inflated right now. And I agree with someone earlier that it is partly due to divisional races. You may realize that you don't want to run 1D but be able to haul your kid and you're happy running in the 3D-5D. But you want the dependability of ol trusty rusty so you'll pay for the peace of mind for yourself or your kid. That to me plays a big part in it. But with that being said, the prices are stupid crazy right now for something that's only half a** broke IMO. Pet peeves are sellers with no prices, no posted videos, want stupid prices but can't spell to save their life. And also the back yard breeders that think that because they can afford a breeding to a stud that's a GS of some big name horse then they should be able to command the same prices that the bigger named trainers get. It absolutely amazes me that they don't quite grasp the concept that sometimes a trainers reputation has a lot to do with an asking price. Sell a horse on what it can do, not what it should be able to do. I had a really nice trail horse a long time ago that couldn't of passed a turtle going downhill, she was DFC bred on the top and had Jet Deck on the bottom (I can't remember how far back). Nothing wrong with her, she just got passed up for the speed gene and was happy as a trail horse. I got her from an old man that was retiring out of horses and I wanted something dependable. | |
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Expert
Posts: 5293
| stayceem - 2017-02-10 9:23 AM
FLITASTIC - 2017-02-09 11:05 AM
stayceem - 2017-02-09 9:03 AM
I have noticed the same thing 7-9 year olds which in my experience are harder to teach to a job, are 5-7k and I just cant do it. Prices are high and as exciting as that is, I wonder how people afford this sport. I am capable of training a horse but am by no means a professional trainer. I have had to buy unbroke if I want something decently papered.
In general though, I am annoyed that a decently bred horse sits in the pasture until they are 7,8,9 and were broke but years ago. Just seems like a waste.
See, I find quite the opposite. The 7-9 year old group is MUCH easier to train. THey are more focused, not babies, etc. Don't need the drills etc. Just show them their job and let them do it.
My experience with these horses have been trail horses or basic riding horses. They weren't taught the fundamentals for barrels and in my experience, they are more mature minded and physically more mature but they also have somewhat learned what they want to do. I have seen and worked with a few horses who were never asked of much and it was hard for them to get that competitive edge or desire to exert a lot of effort.
I don't start them young as I like them to be physically ready but I still think them learning to "work" at 4 vs 8 makes a big difference. And when I say work, I don't mean barrels. Also I find it harder for them to learn how to control their body when they are older. Building that muscle and getting good balance. I broke my gelding as a late 6 year old and he struggled for a long time at a lope. He had so much body to control, he just couldn't keep himself organized. It took longer than most 3-4 year olds.
Just in my experience horses who are 7, 8, 9 and haven't been started in a "job" yet usually aren't broke the best either. They are rideable but as we know, rideable and truly broke are different. Obviously exceptions but that's my experience.
Come to think of it I do agree with what your saying! I bet the difference between you and me is the level of " Broke" we expect from our horses in training. I don't really follow the band wagon on all the rib cage work, and being able to control every aspect of a horse's body at any time I choose. I see so many people at races doing what I call " Picking" on their horses.. 2 hours of mini drills in the warm up pen etc. I am the son of a 6x NFR qualifier and my momma taught me as a small kid that for a horse to " Want" to give you their heart/bottom, they have to LIKE and WANT to do the work you are ASKING them to do, not TELLING them to do. We start all of ours on the pattern the same, like many of you all do, but if a horse is naturally a little stiff, we roll with it and maybe they are a roll back style, rather than doing hours and hours of bending, 10,000 bit changes etc. SO I do not demand that my horses are absolutely crazy slidy spinny broke. If they have a basic handle, they listen to me, they want to learn, we just make it work. Obviously if they are making a huge mistake we fix. But If I have one that wants to be bendy on 2 barrels and roll back on other, or all roll back, I'm fine with it. Older horses tend to know what works for them, and I just exploit that. | |
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Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
| FLITASTIC - 2017-02-10 12:08 PM
stayceem - 2017-02-10 9:23 AM
FLITASTIC - 2017-02-09 11:05 AM
stayceem - 2017-02-09 9:03 AM
I have noticed the same thing 7-9 year olds which in my experience are harder to teach to a job, are 5-7k and I just cant do it. Prices are high and as exciting as that is, I wonder how people afford this sport. I am capable of training a horse but am by no means a professional trainer. I have had to buy unbroke if I want something decently papered.
In general though, I am annoyed that a decently bred horse sits in the pasture until they are 7,8,9 and were broke but years ago. Just seems like a waste.
See, I find quite the opposite. The 7-9 year old group is MUCH easier to train. THey are more focused, not babies, etc. Don't need the drills etc. Just show them their job and let them do it.
My experience with these horses have been trail horses or basic riding horses. They weren't taught the fundamentals for barrels and in my experience, they are more mature minded and physically more mature but they also have somewhat learned what they want to do. I have seen and worked with a few horses who were never asked of much and it was hard for them to get that competitive edge or desire to exert a lot of effort.
I don't start them young as I like them to be physically ready but I still think them learning to "work" at 4 vs 8 makes a big difference. And when I say work, I don't mean barrels. Also I find it harder for them to learn how to control their body when they are older. Building that muscle and getting good balance. I broke my gelding as a late 6 year old and he struggled for a long time at a lope. He had so much body to control, he just couldn't keep himself organized. It took longer than most 3-4 year olds.
Just in my experience horses who are 7, 8, 9 and haven't been started in a "job" yet usually aren't broke the best either. They are rideable but as we know, rideable and truly broke are different. Obviously exceptions but that's my experience.
Come to think of it I do agree with what your saying! I bet the difference between you and me is the level of " Broke" we expect from our horses in training. I don't really follow the band wagon on all the rib cage work, and being able to control every aspect of a horse's body at any time I choose. I see so many people at races doing what I call " Picking" on their horses.. 2 hours of mini drills in the warm up pen etc. I am the son of a 6x NFR qualifier and my momma taught me as a small kid that for a horse to " Want" to give you their heart/bottom, they have to LIKE and WANT to do the work you are ASKING them to do, not TELLING them to do. We start all of ours on the pattern the same, like many of you all do, but if a horse is naturally a little stiff, we roll with it and maybe they are a roll back style, rather than doing hours and hours of bending, 10,000 bit changes etc. SO I do not demand that my horses are absolutely crazy slidy spinny broke. If they have a basic handle, they listen to me, they want to learn, we just make it work. Obviously if they are making a huge mistake we fix. But If I have one that wants to be bendy on 2 barrels and roll back on other, or all roll back, I'm fine with it. Older horses tend to know what works for them, and I just exploit that.
I do let each horse embrace their style but I expect my horses to be able to lope a nice collected circle. And a lot of the older (7-9+) horses literally can lope around aimlessly but they break and they crossfire and they zigzag. or they lope so flat and heavy on their front end, that's not a quality I embrace. So I wouldn't say I am nit picky but sounds like I am a bit more picky than you are.
I just think the older they get, the harder it is for them to learn or want to learn some of these basics that I think makes a great barrel horse the goal is to keep the sound by using themselves the correct way.
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 Lady Di
Posts: 21556
Location: Oklahoma | FLITASTIC - 2017-02-10 12:08 PM
stayceem - 2017-02-10 9:23 AM
FLITASTIC - 2017-02-09 11:05 AM
stayceem - 2017-02-09 9:03 AM
I have noticed the same thing 7-9 year olds which in my experience are harder to teach to a job, are 5-7k and I just cant do it. Prices are high and as exciting as that is, I wonder how people afford this sport. I am capable of training a horse but am by no means a professional trainer. I have had to buy unbroke if I want something decently papered.
In general though, I am annoyed that a decently bred horse sits in the pasture until they are 7,8,9 and were broke but years ago. Just seems like a waste.
See, I find quite the opposite. The 7-9 year old group is MUCH easier to train. THey are more focused, not babies, etc. Don't need the drills etc. Just show them their job and let them do it.
My experience with these horses have been trail horses or basic riding horses. They weren't taught the fundamentals for barrels and in my experience, they are more mature minded and physically more mature but they also have somewhat learned what they want to do. I have seen and worked with a few horses who were never asked of much and it was hard for them to get that competitive edge or desire to exert a lot of effort.
I don't start them young as I like them to be physically ready but I still think them learning to "work" at 4 vs 8 makes a big difference. And when I say work, I don't mean barrels. Also I find it harder for them to learn how to control their body when they are older. Building that muscle and getting good balance. I broke my gelding as a late 6 year old and he struggled for a long time at a lope. He had so much body to control, he just couldn't keep himself organized. It took longer than most 3-4 year olds.
Just in my experience horses who are 7, 8, 9 and haven't been started in a "job" yet usually aren't broke the best either. They are rideable but as we know, rideable and truly broke are different. Obviously exceptions but that's my experience.
Come to think of it I do agree with what your saying! I bet the difference between you and me is the level of " Broke" we expect from our horses in training. I don't really follow the band wagon on all the rib cage work, and being able to control every aspect of a horse's body at any time I choose. I see so many people at races doing what I call " Picking" on their horses.. 2 hours of mini drills in the warm up pen etc. I am the son of a 6x NFR qualifier and my momma taught me as a small kid that for a horse to " Want" to give you their heart/bottom, they have to LIKE and WANT to do the work you are ASKING them to do, not TELLING them to do. We start all of ours on the pattern the same, like many of you all do, but if a horse is naturally a little stiff, we roll with it and maybe they are a roll back style, rather than doing hours and hours of bending, 10,000 bit changes etc. SO I do not demand that my horses are absolutely crazy slidy spinny broke. If they have a basic handle, they listen to me, they want to learn, we just make it work. Obviously if they are making a huge mistake we fix. But If I have one that wants to be bendy on 2 barrels and roll back on other, or all roll back, I'm fine with it. Older horses tend to know what works for them, and I just exploit that.
I want to like this a thousand times. I SO agree with you. I am the "old school" method, too. I am constantly buying horses that have so much bend you can't MAKE their butt follow their nose, and I have to put them back together from front to back, stiffen them up some, and they go from clocking in the 4D to 1 and 2D. I believe in letting a horse develop its own style, rather than telling it what to do every step of the way. I like to kick back and let them do the work while I enjoy the ride. My horses I have right now are 5, 7, and 8. They're all extremely well broke, have been hauled and are easy and safe for anyone to ride. The two younger ones are priced at $10K or below, and the 8 yr old is $15K. I can't even get a sniff on any of them. smh They're all pretty much proven barrel pedigrees, too. So Idk how people are selling the high priced ones because I'm sure not.  | |
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 Regular
Posts: 73
Location: Central Texas | I guess I'm the oddball. I LOVE the 6-9 year olds. They are over the BS baby antics and are ready for anything. Their joints are better as they haven't been futuritied or raced. I prefer to buy the 6-9 year olds that have been ridden everywhere, seen just about anything, started on pattern and ready to add speed. They are well rounded and you don't get the stupid crap you get from the 3 year olds who have only seen the arena. Bought a 9 year old in October that wasn't started under saddle until 4, ranch ridden, reining handle, could enter SHOT classes and win. She was extremely well started on the pattern and slowly at 8, had done some playdays for exposure but never been asked for more than a lope. She's been hauled everywhere and will babysit a kid at a roping, sorting, barrel race, whatever. With that said I paid a lot of money because I needed something safe and sane to finish on the pattern. The vet check on her was impeccable because of how late she was started and how little she'd been rode into the ground. I've hauled for exhibitions and she handles it like an old pro. Love that little mare and really excited to see how she does at her first jackpot in a month. | |
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Regular
Posts: 84
| FLITASTIC - 2017-02-10 1:08 PM
stayceem - 2017-02-10 9:23 AM
FLITASTIC - 2017-02-09 11:05 AM
stayceem - 2017-02-09 9:03 AM
I have noticed the same thing 7-9 year olds which in my experience are harder to teach to a job, are 5-7k and I just cant do it. Prices are high and as exciting as that is, I wonder how people afford this sport. I am capable of training a horse but am by no means a professional trainer. I have had to buy unbroke if I want something decently papered.
In general though, I am annoyed that a decently bred horse sits in the pasture until they are 7,8,9 and were broke but years ago. Just seems like a waste.
See, I find quite the opposite. The 7-9 year old group is MUCH easier to train. THey are more focused, not babies, etc. Don't need the drills etc. Just show them their job and let them do it.
My experience with these horses have been trail horses or basic riding horses. They weren't taught the fundamentals for barrels and in my experience, they are more mature minded and physically more mature but they also have somewhat learned what they want to do. I have seen and worked with a few horses who were never asked of much and it was hard for them to get that competitive edge or desire to exert a lot of effort.
I don't start them young as I like them to be physically ready but I still think them learning to "work" at 4 vs 8 makes a big difference. And when I say work, I don't mean barrels. Also I find it harder for them to learn how to control their body when they are older. Building that muscle and getting good balance. I broke my gelding as a late 6 year old and he struggled for a long time at a lope. He had so much body to control, he just couldn't keep himself organized. It took longer than most 3-4 year olds.
Just in my experience horses who are 7, 8, 9 and haven't been started in a "job" yet usually aren't broke the best either. They are rideable but as we know, rideable and truly broke are different. Obviously exceptions but that's my experience.
Come to think of it I do agree with what your saying! I bet the difference between you and me is the level of " Broke" we expect from our horses in training. I don't really follow the band wagon on all the rib cage work, and being able to control every aspect of a horse's body at any time I choose. I see so many people at races doing what I call " Picking" on their horses.. 2 hours of mini drills in the warm up pen etc. I am the son of a 6x NFR qualifier and my momma taught me as a small kid that for a horse to " Want" to give you their heart/bottom, they have to LIKE and WANT to do the work you are ASKING them to do, not TELLING them to do. We start all of ours on the pattern the same, like many of you all do, but if a horse is naturally a little stiff, we roll with it and maybe they are a roll back style, rather than doing hours and hours of bending, 10,000 bit changes etc. SO I do not demand that my horses are absolutely crazy slidy spinny broke. If they have a basic handle, they listen to me, they want to learn, we just make it work. Obviously if they are making a huge mistake we fix. But If I have one that wants to be bendy on 2 barrels and roll back on other, or all roll back, I'm fine with it. Older horses tend to know what works for them, and I just exploit that.
This is perfect! | |
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 Coyote Country Queen
Posts: 5666
| I don't have a problem with the age as much as I do the incorrect training these horses have. Once an issue or habit has been created it takes time and can be difficult to undo. Everyone thinks they can just do it on their own. Then when they realize they can't, either because of lack of time or ability, they want to trade for something further along or better broke. I can't tell you how many times I get asked to do trades on horses like these. I'm not selling a problem, and I don't want to trade for a horse that has issues. I'm not saying it can't be done, because I've been able to take those kind of horses and make them work, but what people don't realize is that those kind are a dime a dozen and they aren't worth much.
The biggest problem I see in general in the horse industry today is a lack of general horsemanship, knowledge of basics, and a lack of willingness to learn.
This is a subject that I could probably go on and on about, so I'll quit there!
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 897
Location: Glendive Mt. | My friend has a super mare for sale I think she is 10now, been hauled everywhere been to the horse shows , broke to death is very patterned on the barrels she is moved up to the 3D now and still improving with only 10 runs under her belt. Sound sane and prob close to 5-6 but worth more. This mare turns picture perfect but can't get a bite on her. Believe me I think about buying her but just need the $. | |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 382
| IRunOnFaith - 2017-02-08 1:39 PM
I found a WEANLING filly the other day advertised at $80,000. Both Grandsires were big names but a little older in popularity. Sire has a 2017 stud fee of only $750 with no incentives. Dam has no show records available to view. Foal is signed up for no incentives...
I guess they're worth whatever you want them to be worth now-a-days.
I saw that !! I stared at the ad for a while lol! I think they hit to may zeros lol. | |
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Veteran
Posts: 264
| I went to look at a couple prospects recently, found one I really liked. Picked him out due to conformation and his quiet mind. Didn't even know how he was bred. Told the ranch owner he's the one I wanted and asked for the price. He wanted $8000 for an unbroke and unregistered colt. I offered $2000 and walked away. A month later I had him in my backyard for my price.
I absolutely agree with futurities and slot races increasing the worth of horses! Do I think my horse COULD win a slot race, yep...has he, nope! People are pricing on the "could" and not the "did." | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 542
| turnedout - 2017-02-11 10:25 AM
I went to look at a couple prospects recently, found one I really liked. Picked him out due to conformation and his quiet mind. Didn't even know how he was bred. Told the ranch owner he's the one I wanted and asked for the price. He wanted $8000 for an unbroke and unregistered colt. I offered $2000 and walked away. A month later I had him in my backyard for my price.
I absolutely agree with futurities and slot races increasing the worth of horses! Do I think my horse COULD win a slot race, yep...has he, nope! People are pricing on the "could" and not the "did."
Great point!
Or they price on the "has done" like 8 years ago this horse was a futurity colt that ran out however much and was 1D. But current owner is placing in the 3D at the local shows maybe 60 entries. Then ummm no you can't get that 15k-30k price tag your wanting.
Or same owner and 4 years ago the horse was consistently winning local shows and placing 1/2D nationally but recently cruises in the bottom of the 2D everywhere.
In both cases I know I'm gonna be spending money at the vet or time tuning and probably a good year on figuring out problems IF they are fixable.
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Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
| Jenbabe - 2017-02-10 4:28 PM
I don't have a problem with the age as much as I do the incorrect training these horses have. Once an issue or habit has been created it takes time and can be difficult to undo. Everyone thinks they can just do it on their own. Then when they realize they can't, either because of lack of time or ability, they want to trade for something further along or better broke. I can't tell you how many times I get asked to do trades on horses like these. I'm not selling a problem, and I don't want to trade for a horse that has issues. I'm not saying it can't be done, because I've been able to take those kind of horses and make them work, but what people don't realize is that those kind are a dime a dozen and they aren't worth much.
The biggest problem I see in general in the horse industry today is a lack of general horsemanship, knowledge of basics, and a lack of willingness to learn.
This is a subject that I could probably go on and on about, so I'll quit there!
You said it better than me | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 618
| IRunOnFaith - 2017-02-08 12:39 PM
I found a WEANLING filly the other day advertised at $80,000. Both Grandsires were big names but a little older in popularity. Sire has a 2017 stud fee of only $750 with no incentives. Dam has no show records available to view. Foal is signed up for no incentives...
I guess they're worth whatever you want them to be worth now-a-days.
I saw that too and thought it was a mistake LOL | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 618
| FLITASTIC - 2017-02-10 12:08 PM
stayceem - 2017-02-10 9:23 AM
FLITASTIC - 2017-02-09 11:05 AM
stayceem - 2017-02-09 9:03 AM
I have noticed the same thing 7-9 year olds which in my experience are harder to teach to a job, are 5-7k and I just cant do it. Prices are high and as exciting as that is, I wonder how people afford this sport. I am capable of training a horse but am by no means a professional trainer. I have had to buy unbroke if I want something decently papered.
In general though, I am annoyed that a decently bred horse sits in the pasture until they are 7,8,9 and were broke but years ago. Just seems like a waste.
See, I find quite the opposite. The 7-9 year old group is MUCH easier to train. THey are more focused, not babies, etc. Don't need the drills etc. Just show them their job and let them do it.
My experience with these horses have been trail horses or basic riding horses. They weren't taught the fundamentals for barrels and in my experience, they are more mature minded and physically more mature but they also have somewhat learned what they want to do. I have seen and worked with a few horses who were never asked of much and it was hard for them to get that competitive edge or desire to exert a lot of effort.
I don't start them young as I like them to be physically ready but I still think them learning to "work" at 4 vs 8 makes a big difference. And when I say work, I don't mean barrels. Also I find it harder for them to learn how to control their body when they are older. Building that muscle and getting good balance. I broke my gelding as a late 6 year old and he struggled for a long time at a lope. He had so much body to control, he just couldn't keep himself organized. It took longer than most 3-4 year olds.
Just in my experience horses who are 7, 8, 9 and haven't been started in a "job" yet usually aren't broke the best either. They are rideable but as we know, rideable and truly broke are different. Obviously exceptions but that's my experience.
Come to think of it I do agree with what your saying! I bet the difference between you and me is the level of " Broke" we expect from our horses in training. I don't really follow the band wagon on all the rib cage work, and being able to control every aspect of a horse's body at any time I choose. I see so many people at races doing what I call " Picking" on their horses.. 2 hours of mini drills in the warm up pen etc. I am the son of a 6x NFR qualifier and my momma taught me as a small kid that for a horse to " Want" to give you their heart/bottom, they have to LIKE and WANT to do the work you are ASKING them to do, not TELLING them to do. We start all of ours on the pattern the same, like many of you all do, but if a horse is naturally a little stiff, we roll with it and maybe they are a roll back style, rather than doing hours and hours of bending, 10,000 bit changes etc. SO I do not demand that my horses are absolutely crazy slidy spinny broke. If they have a basic handle, they listen to me, they want to learn, we just make it work. Obviously if they are making a huge mistake we fix. But If I have one that wants to be bendy on 2 barrels and roll back on other, or all roll back, I'm fine with it. Older horses tend to know what works for them, and I just exploit that.
Thank you!!! This is my philosophy also. I have a 9 yr old I got when he was almost 6 and unbroke(awesome set of papers if you're into that). Paid $600 for him and he has exceeded all my expectations. He broke out nice and is only started on barrel pattern, he's ready to exhibition and add speed. Even if he doesn't make a 1d horse he makes a darn good pony horse. Absolutely nothing bothers him and our race colts can't push him around bc he's big. He's kind, non confrontational, gets along with everyone.
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