Bear - 2017-04-21 11:59 AM You are like so many others who only have a very rudimentary understanding of the immune system, but where you specifically lack understanding explains, to a large extent, why there's an anti-Vaxx movement. We develop an immune response to a foreign protein. Those foreign proteins are called "antigens". They can be bacteria, viruses, parasites, or any protein that is not native to our bodies. Here's the deal. We are all exposed to thousands of antigens every day in the food we eat, the air we breathe, and things we touch. Vaccines do NOT weaken or overwhelm our immune systems. In fact, they strengthen our immune system by strengthening the immune response to the organism for which the vaccine was intended. Vaccination is very natural. It relies upon an intact natural immune system. One neat thing about our immune system is that a vaccine exposes our immune system to a specific germ or "antigen" and we develop antibodies against that virus or bacteria. The next time you are exposed to the organism, because your immune system remembers it, the secondary response is much more rapid and much more intense......basically whacking it before it gets a foothold. Many times your immune system retains this " memory" for many years, even decades, sometime for your entire life. No.....vaccines do not overwhelm our babies immune system. Their immune systems are exposed to thousands of germs every single day. I'll see if I can find you a good reference on this subject.

IRunOnFaith - 2017-04-21 3:34 PM


Thank you for taking the time to explain Bear. You are very good at "dumbing" things down for people like me. Lol 

I do understand everything you have explained to me. I do. but....I still feel more comfortable giving vaccines seperately and spaced out, rather than multiples at once.
I do feel a bit more educated on the subject tho. Thanks Bear. 
 

rodeoveteran - 2017-04-22 1:09 PM


But Bear, what you didn't address was her desire to expose her child to one vaccine at a time. How is that unreasonable and uneducated or ignorant? Why is limiting the type of "germs" introduced by vaccines a bad thing? Personally, I think it is a more sensible approach. It gives the immune system an opportunity to identify the invading organism and gives it time to develop antibodies for that specific invader, instead of requiring it to respond to multiple threats at once. And for anyone that might be susceptible to any kind of negative reaction, the possibility of reaction is reduced.

rodeoveteran - 2017-04-22 1:09 PM


But Bear, what you didn't address was her desire to expose her child to one vaccine at a time. How is that unreasonable and uneducated or ignorant? Why is limiting the type of "germs" introduced by vaccines a bad thing? Personally, I think it is a more sensible approach. It gives the immune system an opportunity to identify the invading organism and gives it time to develop antibodies for that specific invader, instead of requiring it to respond to multiple threats at once. And for anyone that might be susceptible to any kind of negative reaction, the possibility of reaction is reduced.

Vickie - 2017-04-19 10:47 PM When I was growing up we got our immune systems going as soon as our mothers put us down. From siblings, neighbors and playing in the dirt. Unfortunately for many that is no longer true. I totally agree that vaccines need research (shame funding is being cut off) and improvement, but now, for most, they are necessary. For the one child who may have had an adverse reaction and the other who may be able to blame a problem on a vaccine, 1,000 lives were saved worldwide by vaccinations. Do you remember Polio? Guess why not? Because a vaccine eliminated it in this country. When you look at this issue as a parent you should look at it as playing the odds with you and your neighbor's children's lives in the balance. What are you willing to bet? Have you asked your friends and neighbors and your child's classmates parents if they approve of your bet This is one time I know of a use for charter schools, in California there has been a big increase in sick children at charters because like minded, non-vac parents have grouped together.

cheryl makofka - 2017-04-22 2:29 PM The schedule that CDC recommends is based on years of surveillance and research. Sure if you want to give one vaccine at a time, but there are certain vaccines that if you split them up will not give the individual the maximum immunity. Menincoccal is one example, it provides better immunity when paired with tetanus. Whooping cough does better when paired with tetanus, this is why this vaccine is not offered as an individual vaccine. Also cost is another reason who vaccines are not offered separately, your insurance company, government doesn't want the extra cost to have the vaccine produced individually, even if you pay for it, you are not paying the full cost, vaccines are subsidized so more people can afford it. Also why would you want to split them up? The majority of the anti vaxxers arguement is they don't want all the extras injected into their child. Doing one at a time you will be adding more of the extras into your child over their lifespan. Also if you are doing your own schedule, if you don't follow through with the spacing between vaccines and wait a longer time, you are giving yourself a false sense of security thinking your child is vaccinated. The memory cells will decrease the longer you go without immunizing causing your child to have an increased risk of contracting the disease. Children have a less mature immune system then an adult, and this is why they require more vaccines than an adult starting out. The research has shown that before immunization cause any impact on the immune system, the child has to receive 1000 different vaccines on the same day, therefore the few they do get will not weaken their immune system.

IRunOnFaith - 2017-04-24 9:05 AM Her pediatrician does not accept insurance. She is cash pay as stated before. 

I pay cash for her visit and pay cash per vaccine. I don't understand how cost has anything to do with it? Insurance companies and governements don't want the cost of anything, but forcing me to pay for a vaccine in a certain form or with certain other vaccines just because it is cheaper for them to produce is not only illegal, it shouldn't matter either way how I pay or how much I pay. Insurance companies cost does not matter to me or my child's health. My child has insurance that I cannot use at her pediatrician's office. That is my choice.  And again, i'm not entirely sure why that matters. I have her insurance for her Rheumatology, ENT, and other specialists she sees for her genetic disorders and auto immune disorders/diseases. If the goverment was hurting because of vaccines I am buying individually then we have a goverment spending issue, not a vaccine issue. I promise you the cost per vaccine would most likely go up if it was a problem. 



My child is not on my own schedule. She is on a schedule her doctor has been using for many years with other children, not just my child. We have consulted for many hours over her schedule.  Her doctor has been in practice for over 30 years. If something was wrong with her schedule of vaccines someone would have filed a case by now. It's 2017. People file cases because their feelings get hurt... Something would have came up by now if it was an issue.

 

 I approached her doctor with a concern and she gave me a schedule to follow. Sometimes, yes we do make changes to the schedule. For instance, if my child has just seen her Rheumetologist, or ENT, or any other of her long list of specialists the same day or day before we reschedule for a day or two later simply because I don't feel the need to put her through another shot or doctor visit. She sees enough needles at her other doctor visits. 



I feel no security what-so-ever in immunizing my child. Vaccines scare me to death. I don't know what exactly is in them. I don't know if she really needs them. But I do trust her doctor. And if her doctor says she is better with them then she is better with them. If her doctor feels comfortable spacing out vaccines like me, then I trust her to space them correctly. She's been to the same classes and years of school any other doctor has. She simply has an outlook of: "You are the parent. You know your child better than me. I work for you. You tell me what exactly your concerns are and I will give you three options with pros and cons of each." And she does. 



Her rheumatologist, ENT, and other specialists at Cook Children's have all seen her vaccine schedule. It gets updated when she gets a new vaccine as well. They have yet to say anything about her vaccine schedule to me. If it was a concern the many doctors she has seen who have asked "Is she up-to-date on vaccines" and then looked at her vaccine record and copy of the schedule she is on would have said something by now if something concerned them. 



Again, what you feel is right for your child is not entirely right, or entirely wrong, for every child. What is right for my child is not right or wrong for any other child. And again, that doesn't make any mother a bad mother for following, or not following the CDC's reccomended schedule. 

 

NJJ - 2017-04-24 9:27 AM  I really think you are comparing apples and oranges here....you DO vaccinate your child and have serious concerns because she HAS other health problems. No one would consider you a "bad" mother but one who has taken the time to do research and vaccinate appropriately for her child. That being said, the majority of "anti-vaxers" think that NO vaccines should be given.....EVER ...... I consider those people the ones who are uneducated and are the reasons that these diseases are making a recurrence to the detrimental health of others......

Bear - 2017-04-24 9:36 AM IRunOnFaith, I completely understand how people can become scared to death of these ever-increasing vaccines. I really can. My suggestion to you is to continue to try and understand the real, unadulterated science behind vaccines, the immune system, and how they actually work. The KEY to understanding how people are so fearful of vaccines is to first, and foremost, realize that those who are most fearful really don't have a good understanding of how vaccines actually work. Vaccines are foreign proteins, or "antigens". A normal healthy immune system will respond to these antigens by creating cells capable of generating antibodies that are extremely specific to that antigen. Now here's the part that I want you to understand very clearly: THE HUMAN BODY IS LITERALLY EXPOSED TO THOUSANDS.....that's right, THOUSANDS of antigens on a daily basis. We are exposed through scratches in our skin, the air we breathe, the food we eat, and anything we touch. Of all the various healing modalities we see in modern medicine, nothing we do is more NATURAL than immunization. The immune system is NOT "overwhelmed" by vaccines. That simply is not true. In fact, the reverse is true. The immune system is strengthened and amplified by vaccinations. Unfortunately, your fears are based more on myth and superstition, rather than fact. You are not alone. Hopefully, fewer people will refractory to learning as the truth and facts are disseminated, in response to this "anti-vax" craze. If the majority of people would have accepted the premise on which the anti-vax movement is based, tens of millions of people would have died over the last 60 years. Take a look at this simplified diagram. I think it drives home the basic idea that the basic process for "active" versus "passive" immunity is through the SAME mechanism. Natural, active immunity is seen when your foal or calf drinks colostrum, or when a mother breast feeds a child. The antibodies are pre-formed, armed and ready to fire at a specific antigen "invader". In a short period of time, that foal, calf, or human baby develops its own immune system, capable of taking over. Natural, PASSIVE immunity occurs when there is an actual bacterial or viral infection......assuming the person actually survives. Usually, the initial response to this new germ (virus or bacteria) is a bit slow, but subsequent exposures to that same invader or antigen is much faster and much more intense. We call this a "second set response" and it is based on the amazing property that the immune system possesses MEMORY. Now, ARTIFICIAL "passive" immunity is seen when we give someone life-saving antibodies, for example tetanus immune globulin ("HyperTet"). This contains antibodies that are already made, and designed to immediately attack and eliminate the protein in tetanus toxin in people who have not been adequately immunized and have sustained a wound that is more likely to harbor the tetanus causing organism....high risk wounds. Those individuals who sustain a laceration or puncture on their bare foot while out in a pasture and have not received a tetanus shot at least within 10 years, should receive both active (hypertet) and passive (tdap vaccine) immunization. ARTIFICIAL "active" immunity is achieved through vaccines. The immune response is the same is with the actual infection. The beauty of vaccines is that the bacteria or virus is either killed or "inactivated" to the extent that it cannot produce the actual full blown disease in over 99.9% of people. I hope this helps. Just read this kind of stuff and try to keep the emotions out of it. See if it doesn't make sense.

rodeoveteran - 2017-04-24 8:28 AM

I think that the increasing resistance has lass to do with a lack of education and more to do with people's increasing distrust of
The Government
The Pharmaceutical industry
Insurance companies
Doctors (who are trained and swayed by the above)

IRunOnFaith - 2017-04-24 10:07 AM Thank you NJJ. As I've said before, every mother has the right to choose in my eyes. I don't think any mother should be considered a bad mom either way. 

Until one is educated on both ends, unbiased, I don't think one can make an informed decision for their child either way. I lack in the educated department for sure on most things, especially when it comes to medical terminology and specifics, but I have reasearched from biased and unbiased sources on many occasions regarding my child and her health. The hard part is putting your opinions to the side and making a decision based on facts that you find that are backed by research. That may scare you to death, but facts don't lie.

 I think both sides can be argued when making a decision based upon research backed facts. 

rodeoveteran - 2017-04-24 10:28 AM

I think that the increasing resistance has lass to do with a lack of education and more to do with people's increasing distrust of
The Government
The Pharmaceutical industry
Insurance companies
Doctors (who are trained and swayed by the above)

Bear - 2017-04-24 10:50 AM


You aren't helping at all, Rodeoveteran. I'm busting my ass trying to explain things, devoid of all the emotionally charged stuff, and you come in and just toss this crap in the mix. I don't have a dog in this fight, except for a desire to promote better healthcare. The overwhelming majority of docs don't have a vested interest in promoting vaccines "for the money". We are plenty busy. We don't receive "commission" for giving vaccines. We're having a helluva time meeting the needs of legitimately sick people as it is. People have a hell of a time getting in to see their private docs as it is. We don't need to hustle for more business for chrissakes.
Instead of just reading and discussing with logic and reason, you go and throw in a bunch of paranoid jibberish.