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 Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
  
| jbhoot - 2017-10-04 6:24 AM 1DSoon - 2017-10-04 6:04 AM NJJ - 2017-10-03 11:28 AM spitzh - 2017-10-03 9:39 AM Griz - 2017-10-03 3:54 AM stayceem - 2017-10-02 2:12 PM want2chase3 - 2017-10-02 1:35 PM Frodo - 2017-10-02 12:54 PM Hillary Clinton today: "The crowd fled at the sound of gunshots. Imagine the deaths if the shooter had a silencer, which the NRA wants to make easier to get." She then goes on to bash the NRA.
Get a grip on your political self Hillary. Families are grief-stricken.
It was just a matter of time before this became a "gun issue". Unfortunately I am not much for politics but I do know the clip this man used was "banned" from what I have heard so clearly that didn't stop. When are people going to realize that those who follow the rules aren't the ones we are making the rules for. Its like maybe lets make drugs illegal... oh wait... we did and they are probably out biggest war. We can make all the guns illegal but those that follow laws aren't the ones who do these senseless acts. AMEN! There is ALREADY a LAW banning automatic weapons UNLESS you have a hard to get special permit. WHEN, WHEN, WHEN will people see that MORE gun laws are NOT the answer - criminals don't abide by the laws!!! - What is SO hard to understand about this??? Hilary needs to just shut her pie-hole. About the killer - in my opinion, he didn't "snap" this was planned. He rented the room last Thursday - a room with a FULL view of the concert and he brought all those guns to his room. I hope they find SOMETHING on his phone, or computer that will tell us WHY??? They also found materials to make a bomb. They raided his house here in Reno, NV. This situation has been planned for a long time. Usually massacres are planned for awhile.
Edited to add from news:
One image appears to show an assault rifle fitted with a legal modified stock, which uses the weapon's recoil to allow the shooter to fire rounds at a speed approaching that of a fully automatic gun.
Police confirmed that Paddock had fitted two "bump stocks", which can be obtained for as little as $99
Whatever the left and the media wants it to be.
Neither side no what they are talking about. I heard Laura Ingram say you can't use a silencer on an AR 15 because it would melt it, lol. | |
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 Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
 
| No to deflect too much into politics and away from the support I hope Vegas knows we are given but this tragedy has really had me thinking about what changes may be proposed. | |
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 My Heart Be Happy
Posts: 9159
Location: Arkansas | jbhoot - 2017-10-04 6:24 AM
1DSoon - 2017-10-04 6:04 AM
NJJ - 2017-10-03 11:28 AM spitzh - 2017-10-03 9:39 AM Griz - 2017-10-03 3:54 AM stayceem - 2017-10-02 2:12 PM want2chase3 - 2017-10-02 1:35 PM Frodo - 2017-10-02 12:54 PM Hillary Clinton today: "The crowd fled at the sound of gunshots. Imagine the deaths if the shooter had a silencer, which the NRA wants to make easier to get." She then goes on to bash the NRA.
Get a grip on your political self Hillary. Families are grief-stricken.
It was just a matter of time before this became a "gun issue". Unfortunately I am not much for politics but I do know the clip this man used was "banned" from what I have heard so clearly that didn't stop. When are people going to realize that those who follow the rules aren't the ones we are making the rules for. Its like maybe lets make drugs illegal... oh wait... we did and they are probably out biggest war. We can make all the guns illegal but those that follow laws aren't the ones who do these senseless acts. AMEN! There is ALREADY a LAW banning automatic weapons UNLESS you have a hard to get special permit. WHEN, WHEN, WHEN will people see that MORE gun laws are NOT the answer - criminals don't abide by the laws!!! - What is SO hard to understand about this??? Hilary needs to just shut her pie-hole. About the killer - in my opinion, he didn't "snap" this was planned. He rented the room last Thursday - a room with a FULL view of the concert and he brought all those guns to his room. I hope they find SOMETHING on his phone, or computer that will tell us WHY??? They also found materials to make a bomb. They raided his house here in Reno, NV. This situation has been planned for a long time. Usually massacres are planned for awhile.
Edited to add from news:
One image appears to show an assault rifle fitted with a legal modified stock, which uses the weapon's recoil to allow the shooter to fire rounds at a speed approaching that of a fully automatic gun.
Police confirmed that Paddock had fitted two "bump stocks", which can be obtained for as little as $99
Whatever the left and the media wants it to be.
Absolutely love this answer. Unfortunately it's true. . . . | |
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 Warrior Mom
Posts: 4400
| All of the conspiracy theories coming out non stop now.. multiple shooters, shooter in the crowd... etc etc. .. I've had to un follow a handful of people on fb who just won't quit.. it is a horrible thing that happened, people lost loved ones, I have friends that are burying a young family member this weekend because of it... a young man who's life ended abruptly. It's all sickening to me. Sorry, just ranting I'm just sick of people spewing stuff they truly don't know about to push an agenda. | |
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Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| want2chase3 - 2017-10-05 10:42 AM All of the conspiracy theories coming out non stop now.. multiple shooters, shooter in the crowd... etc etc. .. I've had to un follow a handful of people on fb who just won't quit.. it is a horrible thing that happened, people lost loved ones, I have friends that are burying a young family member this weekend because of it... a young man who's life ended abruptly. It's all sickening to me. Sorry, just ranting I'm just sick of people spewing stuff they truly don't know about to push an agenda.
Agree 100% | |
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  Fact Checker
Posts: 16575
Location: Displaced Iowegian | rodeomom3 - 2017-10-05 10:57 AM want2chase3 - 2017-10-05 10:42 AM All of the conspiracy theories coming out non stop now.. multiple shooters, shooter in the crowd... etc etc. .. I've had to un follow a handful of people on fb who just won't quit.. it is a horrible thing that happened, people lost loved ones, I have friends that are burying a young family member this weekend because of it... a young man who's life ended abruptly. It's all sickening to me. Sorry, just ranting I'm just sick of people spewing stuff they truly don't know about to push an agenda. Agree 100%
^^^^ THIS 
The people that spew these conspiracies certainly don't help the LE because, then, LE has to take the time to investigate rumors, etc ....... | |
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 Expert
Posts: 1432
Location: Never in one place long | I feel like this is becoming normal thing, every few months, a terrorist or crazy person opens fire on innocent people. We say what a tragedy, we wish evil on the person that did it, we hope for justice but nothing really changes besides more security which we all know can only prevent so much...
Everyone spouts it's not guns that are doing this (I know there's other ways to kill people) but then WHAT IS THE SOLUTION!? What do we, or what should government do change or put an end to it? Like usual, in a few weeks, this will be talked about less and less but then we'll get back on with our lives..until the next shooting occurs.. who knows where? It's happened in the town I live in in the past year even, does anything change? Nope! So I say, if it's not the guns that are the problem, then we need to address what the problem is. I always think the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting the same result... it seems to me nothing is done... it won't stop...
We say we need to bring God back to our Country and I totally agree but what about other Countries that are mainly atheist, Buddist, Hinduist, etc etc we don't hear about mass killings in their Countries like we do here. I just don't understand it and I'm tired of the same argument again and again and again but nothing changes overall....
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 Miss Laundry Misshap
Posts: 5271
| DLV - 2017-10-05 2:02 PM I feel like this is becoming normal thing, every few months, a terrorist or crazy person opens fire on innocent people. We say what a tragedy, we wish evil on the person that did it, we hope for justice but nothing really changes besides more security which we all know can only prevent so much... Everyone spouts it's not guns that are doing this (I know there's other ways to kill people) but then WHAT IS THE SOLUTION!? What do we, or what should government do change or put an end to it? Like usual, in a few weeks, this will be talked about less and less but then we'll get back on with our lives..until the next shooting occurs.. who knows where? It's happened in the town I live in in the past year even, does anything change? Nope! So I say, if it's not the guns that are the problem, then we need to address what the problem is. I always think the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting the same result... it seems to me nothing is done... it won't stop... We say we need to bring God back to our Country and I totally agree but what about other Countries that are mainly atheist, Buddist, Hinduist, etc etc we don't hear about mass killings in their Countries like we do here. I just don't understand it and I'm tired of the same argument again and again and again but nothing changes overall....
The ONLY thing that will change the state of affairs is bringing back morals and family, and God, and mental health.
No one in their RIGHT mind seeks to harm others. But somewhere there is a huge state of affairs right now where people are broken and broken down, which causes them to fall apart and want to take revenge on whoever they think will hurt the most. | |
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Expert
Posts: 1432
Location: Never in one place long | Nateracer - 2017-10-05 2:07 PM
DLV - 2017-10-05 2:02 PM I feel like this is becoming normal thing, every few months, a terrorist or crazy person opens fire on innocent people. We say what a tragedy, we wish evil on the person that did it, we hope for justice but nothing really changes besides more security which we all know can only prevent so much... Everyone spouts it's not guns that are doing this (I know there's other ways to kill people) but then WHAT IS THE SOLUTION!? What do we, or what should government do change or put an end to it? Like usual, in a few weeks, this will be talked about less and less but then we'll get back on with our lives..until the next shooting occurs.. who knows where? It's happened in the town I live in in the past year even, does anything change? Nope! So I say, if it's not the guns that are the problem, then we need to address what the problem is. I always think the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting the same result... it seems to me nothing is done... it won't stop... We say we need to bring God back to our Country and I totally agree but what about other Countries that are mainly atheist, Buddist, Hinduist, etc etc we don't hear about mass killings in their Countries like we do here. I just don't understand it and I'm tired of the same argument again and again and again but nothing changes overall....
The ONLY thing that will change the state of affairs is bringing back morals and family, and God, and mental health.
No one in their RIGHT mind seeks to harm others. But somewhere there is a huge state of affairs right now where people are broken and broken down, which causes them to fall apart and want to take revenge on whoever they think will hurt the most.
I do agree to a point but what about other Countries that don't have God in their families and still don't try to shoot hundreds of people. I don't know the answer either but I think we need to do more than say "prayers" "what a tragedy" etc etc and get to the root of it. I think we need to wake up and notice these people that are feeling ignored maybe.
I was recently at a Church Conference and we watched a story about a survivor that jumped off the Golden Gate bridge to try to take his life. he is one of 19 people out of over 2,000 that have jumped off that bridge and committed suicide. He said that on his walk on the bridge if one person would have noticed him and tried to talk to him, he wouldn't have done it. We are so engrossed in our own lives, going to coffee, to eat, trips etc that I feel like we rarely SEE those who are hurting.
Statistically too I bet if we look back on nearly all people who have committed these crimes, we would find children of torn families, single parents, drugs, abuse etc. We need to address these things and do more to be a family to children who are at risk. We spend so much on war in our Country but families are falling apart all around and not much is done to help them besides food and shelter. A lot of things to think about and address. I think it stems from childhood experiences. The Society we live in but we could change it. It needs to be a priority though. | |
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Miss Laundry Misshap
Posts: 5271
| DLV - 2017-10-05 2:41 PM Nateracer - 2017-10-05 2:07 PM DLV - 2017-10-05 2:02 PM I feel like this is becoming normal thing, every few months, a terrorist or crazy person opens fire on innocent people. We say what a tragedy, we wish evil on the person that did it, we hope for justice but nothing really changes besides more security which we all know can only prevent so much... Everyone spouts it's not guns that are doing this (I know there's other ways to kill people) but then WHAT IS THE SOLUTION!? What do we, or what should government do change or put an end to it? Like usual, in a few weeks, this will be talked about less and less but then we'll get back on with our lives..until the next shooting occurs.. who knows where? It's happened in the town I live in in the past year even, does anything change? Nope! So I say, if it's not the guns that are the problem, then we need to address what the problem is. I always think the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting the same result... it seems to me nothing is done... it won't stop... We say we need to bring God back to our Country and I totally agree but what about other Countries that are mainly atheist, Buddist, Hinduist, etc etc we don't hear about mass killings in their Countries like we do here. I just don't understand it and I'm tired of the same argument again and again and again but nothing changes overall.... The ONLY thing that will change the state of affairs is bringing back morals and family, and God, and mental health.
No one in their RIGHT mind seeks to harm others. But somewhere there is a huge state of affairs right now where people are broken and broken down, which causes them to fall apart and want to take revenge on whoever they think will hurt the most. I do agree to a point but what about other Countries that don't have God in their families and still don't try to shoot hundreds of people. I don't know the answer either but I think we need to do more than say "prayers" "what a tragedy" etc etc and get to the root of it. I think we need to wake up and notice these people that are feeling ignored maybe. I was recently at a Church Conference and we watched a story about a survivor that jumped off the Golden Gate bridge to try to take his life. he is one of 19 people out of over 2,000 that have jumped off that bridge and committed suicide. He said that on his walk on the bridge if one person would have noticed him and tried to talk to him, he wouldn't have done it. We are so engrossed in our own lives, going to coffee, to eat, trips etc that I feel like we rarely SEE those who are hurting. Statistically too I bet if we look back on nearly all people who have committed these crimes, we would find children of torn families, single parents, drugs, abuse etc. We need to address these things and do more to be a family to children who are at risk. We spend so much on war in our Country but families are falling apart all around and not much is done to help them besides food and shelter. A lot of things to think about and address. I think it stems from childhood experiences. The Society we live in but we could change it. It needs to be a priority though.
I shared this on FB this morning. I think he says it best. It's started at home and when parents decided to let things slide, like murder, rape, theft, etc in movies, video games, and even watching the news....
https://www.facebook.com/518800841647941/videos/671286646399359/
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Warrior Mom
Posts: 4400
| Family isn't what it use to be... both parents must work, or divorces happen... or parents aren't present, i.e. alcohol or drugs.. I see more and more grandparents stepping in and "raising" their grandchildren because mom or dad, or both are too wasted or in jail... I, unfortunately witness this scenario first hand.. I hate it for the kids, I see the problems with the kids, I see how it affects them and my concerns fall on deaf ears because "it's always been this way" ... it makes me more and more protective and active in my kids lives... my 2 are from a divorced situation, but they are well adjusted, thank goodness... my kids see the news and know what's going on to a point.. I try to protect them but I don't want to make them naive or unaware... my oldest son, he's 8... he asked me a question yesterday while I was cooking supper... it made me really think about my answer because he was obviously very concerned.. he asked if he should always tell on someone if they were doing something bad... I had to think about my answer.. I told him he should always tell on someone IF they are going to hurt someone, or hurt themselves or hurt animals or if they are hurting you. He seemed satisfied with my answer... raising kids these days is scarey and I just hope and pray I'm doing right by them. | |
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Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
| DLV - 2017-10-05 2:02 PM
I feel like this is becoming normal thing, every few months, a terrorist or crazy person opens fire on innocent people. We say what a tragedy, we wish evil on the person that did it, we hope for justice but nothing really changes besides more security which we all know can only prevent so much...
Everyone spouts it's not guns that are doing this (I know there's other ways to kill people) but then WHAT IS THE SOLUTION!? What do we, or what should government do change or put an end to it? Like usual, in a few weeks, this will be talked about less and less but then we'll get back on with our lives..until the next shooting occurs.. who knows where? It's happened in the town I live in in the past year even, does anything change? Nope! So I say, if it's not the guns that are the problem, then we need to address what the problem is. I always think the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting the same result... it seems to me nothing is done... it won't stop...
We say we need to bring God back to our Country and I totally agree but what about other Countries that are mainly atheist, Buddist, Hinduist, etc etc we don't hear about mass killings in their Countries like we do here. I just don't understand it and I'm tired of the same argument again and again and again but nothing changes overall....
I think you might be my spirit animal...  I had this same conversation yesterday. This tragedy has weighed heavily on my mind. I watched the Jimmy Kimmel statement and although many of you will strongly disagree, I cant help but feel like he has a point. I don't want to sit here and believe there is nothing we can do. I don't want to accept this as the new way of life here in America. I am commonly criticized for my generation, that I must be niave and always want to fix whats broken. But I would rather try and bring necessary changes than sit around and gripe about the current situation. I want solutions rather than complaining without action.
I don't know what the answer does and I have been trying to educate myself a little more in this area over the past few days. I know I will be shunned for this but I cant help but feel like some restrictions are necessary. I am all for 2nd amendment and I am well aware people can attack anyone with anything (I work in a jail, I see the creativity daily). I see the arguments and am the first to say I am not the most educated in this field but here are my thoughts and they are simply thoughts...
Why is there not a national gun registry? (yes well aware of people buying things illegally and not register them but why isn't there?) I know I can look up a person and see all their vehicles that are registered to them... If there were such a thing, maybe we could have seen a influx in firearms purchased by this gunman or maybe he wouldn't have registered them or bought them illegally but if we have a national gun registry ... what does it hurt?? Where is bad? Honest question and open to learn.
Why does a person need to have 30 some guns?? I am all for self-protection, hunting, etc but why 30some or 50some?? I know someone will say its their "right" and that collectors would suffer but as someone who has known several collectors of various things, their chances of funding 30some guns in a years time worth collecting, is slim to none. My Grandpa collected guitars, had 14 at the time of his death which took him 15 years to collect. And not to mention gun collection to me if different than guitars or coins or baseball cards. I believe there should be a higher standard.
Also why do some states not require background checks on private sales?? This is ridiculous to me when they require them from a shop.
I am mostly afraid that if this doesn't stop and we cant find a few restrictions that MAY or MAY NOT make a difference, eventually our guns will be gone if these events don't stop. I yes, I am well are and if you see a previous post ... you cannot make things illegal and restricted and expect them to go away but stats show that 30% of guns used in violence were purchased from bulk sales. If we can reduce gun violence by even half (15%)... I don't see bad??
I am open to hear and learn... but I wont be slammed and don't call me a liberal or whatever other weird names. I am NOT a political person, I try and learn but I am asking these questions as a concerned American. | |
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 Proud to be Deplorable
Posts: 1929
| What law would you propose that would have stopped the Vegas shooter? In effect we already have a national gun registry every legal gun sold is registered with the ATF. The shooter bought 50 plus guns over a decade or five to six a year all legally. And passed a back round check on all of them. Bump stocks are legal as per Obama's ATF 6/7/2010. Semi auto guns have been around since the late 1800's full auto's' have been around since the early 1900's. Full auto's where out lawed in 1934 and revised in 1986. So what has changed? The actions of the guns really have not changed. The laws have gotten stiffer on the purchase. You will never stop black market guns and unless you want to change the Constitution and the bill of rights you can't stop private sales. So what has changed over the last 50 years? Society that's what changed. The gun didn't wake up one morning and feel like going out and kill a bunch of people today The nut job on the other end did. So the problem is how we as a nation can control the mentally unstable. And on that score I really don't have an answer but I do know it has gotten worse since the HEPA laws changed in the 1990's. | |
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Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
| jbhoot - 2017-10-05 9:03 PM
What law would you propose that would have stopped the Vegas shooter? In effect we already have a national gun registry every legal gun sold is registered with the ATF. The shooter bought 50 plus guns over a decade or five to six a year all legally. And passed a back round check on all of them. Bump stocks are legal as per Obama's ATF 6/7/2010. Semi auto guns have been around since the late 1800's full auto's' have been around since the early 1900's. Full auto's where out lawed in 1934 and revised in 1986. So what has changed? The actions of the guns really have not changed. The laws have gotten stiffer on the purchase. You will never stop black market guns and unless you want to change the Constitution and the bill of rights you can't stop private sales. So what has changed over the last 50 years? Society that's what changed. The gun didn't wake up one morning and feel like going out and kill a bunch of people today The nut job on the other end did. So the problem is how we as a nation can control the mentally unstable. And on that score I really don't have an answer but I do know it has gotten worse since the HEPA laws changed in the 1990's.
I am aware of the black market and I'm not saying that anything I brought up would fix or prevent any of the Vegas issue. But the Vegas situation did get me looking into some of the laws and I'm more discussing this a whole. From what I read there isn't a national gun registry or maybe it's just not accessible because there was discussion how they weren't aware of his random large purchases of guns due to him buying them in different states. Again, I'm here to learn so correct me if I'm wrong. Even if there were a registry it may not have raised any red flags but maybe it would have? We will never know.
However, I know this will open a huge ball of wax but I don't believe any civilian needs to have their hands on a firearm that can shoot that many rounds including bumps. I just don't see who or why anyone aside from law enforcement or our military would need that. Just my opinion and maybe someone has a legitimate reason why, I'm just not thinking of.
Mental illness is without a doubt a broke system.... however someone like this who's as far as we can tell never received any mental health services or diagnosis. Even if we fix our system there (which also advocate we do) he wouldn't have been a recipient of those services.
Yes bad things happen and I don't have the answers but I really hate to believe the answer is "nothing" in regards to what we can do. I just am trying to decide why our country is having such issues compared to others. We have so much gun violence and it's just baffling. And I wasn't implying no stop private sales but rather making them follow the same background checks as a retailer.
Eta: I understand he purchased 33 guns in the past 12 months. That's a sudden influx in purchases compared to the rest of his life
Edited by stayceem 2017-10-05 11:23 PM
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Industrial Srength Barrel Racer
Posts: 7268
| I heard a really good quote from one of the law enforcement officers on Hannity's show yesterday regarding gun control. He said, "you can't legislate the hate out of a person's soul." | |
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"Heck's Coming With Me"
Posts: 10797
Location: Kansas | Griz - 2017-10-06 5:53 AM I heard a really good quote from one of the law enforcement officers on Hannity's show yesterday regarding gun control. He said, "you can't legislate the hate out of a person's soul."
If you watch a few minutes of MSNBC or CNN at almost any time of the day, you'll understand where a lot of this hatred stems from. Don't even get me started on Dims in the House and Senate. Would it kill you guys to smile once in a while and say something positive.
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 I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
Location: In the Hills of Texas | All I keep thinking is what the death toll would have been if he had used a bomb. Haunting. | |
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My Heart Be Happy
Posts: 9159
Location: Arkansas | Does anyone know statistics from countries that have implemented gun control/forced registration, etc? Meaning if their shootings/killings/murders/violence has decreased, increased, or remained the same? I know I could use IRunOnFaith's magic Google button, but I haven't been to sleep since Wednesday, and I'm not sure I can even find Google right now. . . | |
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"Heck's Coming With Me"
Posts: 10797
Location: Kansas | Chandler's Mom - 2017-10-06 10:05 PM Does anyone know statistics from countries that have implemented gun control/forced registration, etc? Meaning if their shootings/killings/murders/violence has decreased, increased, or remained the same? I know I could use IRunOnFaith's magic Google button, but I haven't been to sleep since Wednesday, and I'm not sure I can even find Google right now. . .
Not sure of the stats but I know Australia implemented gun control. Bad guys ended up with guns......good guys have to throw rocks.
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I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
Location: In the Hills of Texas | want2chase3 - 2017-10-05 10:42 AM All of the conspiracy theories coming out non stop now.. multiple shooters, shooter in the crowd... etc etc. .. I've had to un follow a handful of people on fb who just won't quit.. it is a horrible thing that happened, people lost loved ones, I have friends that are burying a young family member this weekend because of it... a young man who's life ended abruptly. It's all sickening to me. Sorry, just ranting I'm just sick of people spewing stuff they truly don't know about to push an agenda.
I just got back from Arizona and our daughter's next door neighbors were there. The first thing she said to us was, "I'm so tired of people talking about this that weren't there. They don't have a clue what it was like." | |
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