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Location: Bandera, TX | ...very well said...
each of us is an individual-human and animal |
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Location: Illinois | lonely va barrelxr - 2017-11-01 11:33 AM
JLazyT_perf_horses - 2017-10-31 2:24 PM I broke my black horse out as a 7 year old, he had been a standing stud until then. Absolute A***H****, bucked me off almost weekly. He could buck with his head at his flank, he wasn't giving it up. I broke so many reins trying to pull his head around & he didn't care if he had to hurt himself, you were coming off. He bronced and fought me for 2 years until one day I had enough. We were in the sandy round pen bc the arena was muddy and he started bucking. I let him have the reins, grabbed my over under & just held on with one hand & whailed on him with that over under & dug my spurs in. I think my anger and adrenaline are the only things that kept me on that day. He made this awful growling noise & finally after about 20 laps around just stopped. Rode off fine and hasn't dared to buck since, almost 10 years later. The look in his eye changed that day, I wouldn't say I broke his "spirit" but I definitely broke that stud mentality. Now he'd do anything for me, he's step off a cliff if I asked him to. So sometimes the snottiest ones to break make the best horses I think. My 3 year old now loves attention so she's more than happy to do what you ask just because she's getting to spend time with you lol
As a 6yo my Zan stallion and I had a moment like that, on the ground, and a flying ladder fixed it for good. Stallions are very different in how bad they can be and what it takes to get through their studdy-ness and become a partner.
Good luck to the OP - some do stay bad forever, some get better, and it all depends on their handling (unless it's a truly rank horse). Pressure and release, timing, approach, and sometimes the perfectly timed come-to-Jesus meeting.
Yeah mine was cut a few weeks before he was started, but didn't really give him any time for the testosterone to get out. He still acts like a stud to this day, he has to be pastured alone. He'll still mount mares, he goes over the fence to get to them, & he'll try to kill a gelding. But he's been a great riding horse for me & it's enough for me to tolerate his odd behaviors.
OP: Just give yours time, it may take another month or it may take 4 months. As long as I saw progress I'd keep at it, if he hits a plateau and doesn't change then reevaluate the situation, maybe try another trainer. I'd probably at least try a few things after awhile before I'd just totally give up and move on. I'll be the first to admit that there's horses I can't accomplish anything on, and others can excel on. Some horses don't get along with certain styles, so always take that into consideration. |
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 Extreme Veteran
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Location: The Lone Star State | Update! OMG I just talked to the trainer. Well he was being a **** last week and They have quite the battle of wills going on. He said he definately is not sore he has an attitude so he had to get drastic with him. He said he had him going around good in the round pen and he was great until he put a rope on him and he cut in two. He was on another horse and he got to pulling and would not quit so he choked himself out. LIterally he said he passed out and when he got his breath he got up and took a deep breath and then then went back to work and he has not bucked since! THat was last week and he is now riding him every day, still in the round pen and always starting out snubbed to another horse so he cant get away from him. Once he is good he removes the other horse and he goes to work. He says he is not to the point where he is ready for outside yet and I dont blame him. He said he doesnt say "buck" lightly but he can buck. He said he gets a foot off the ground  He said the next few weeks will tell a lot. I am so glad I didnt try to break him myself. He said he definintaly wasnt the worst he has seen and he is smart just stubborn! I wish he would just give it up already so they can move forward. I feel like he is either gonna be in the bucking string at Mesquite rodeo or a champion going to vegas barrel racing! Can you say the outlaws usually make the best ones lol! (I hope)
Edited by Ticktock 2017-11-09 4:29 PM
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Expert
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| Ticktock - 2017-11-09 4:28 PM
Update! OMG I just talked to the trainer. Well he was being a **** last week and They have quite the battle of wills going on. He said he definately is not sore he has an attitude so he had to get drastic with him. He said he had him going around good in the round pen and he was great until he put a rope on him and he cut in two. He was on another horse and he got to pulling and would not quit so he choked himself out. LIterally he said he passed out and when he got his breath he got up and took a deep breath and then then went back to work and he has not bucked since! THat was last week and he is now riding him every day, still in the round pen and always starting out snubbed to another horse so he cant get away from him. Once he is good he removes the other horse and he goes to work. He says he is not to the point where he is ready for outside yet and I dont blame him. He said he doesnt say "buck" lightly but he can buck. He said he gets a foot off the ground He said the next few weeks will tell a lot. I am so glad I didnt try to break him myself. He said he definintaly wasnt the worst he has seen and he is smart just stubborn! I wish he would just give it up already so they can move forward. I feel like he is either gonna be in the bucking string at Mesquite rodeo or a champion going to vegas barrel racing! Can you say the outlaws usually make the best ones lol! (I hope )
This is such great news!! Thank you for updating!! |
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Defense Attorney for The Horse
Location: Claremore, OK | I hope your horse doesn’t become one of those stories that comes home starved, scarred, crippled, airway impaired from being choked, etc.
As some one who uses a rope quite a bit, I’ll say there’s never a need to choke out a horse. Never.
Abuse begins where knowledge ends.
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| Liana D - 2017-11-10 9:56 AM
I hope your horse doesn’t become one of those stories that comes home starved, scarred, crippled, airway impaired from being choked, etc.
As some one who uses a rope quite a bit, I’ll say there’s never a need to choke out a horse. Never.
Abuse begins where knowledge ends.
I am so glad that you chimed in. I have been thinking this very thing, but being as I am not a trainer, I didn't think my opinion would matter. It means a lot more when it comes from some one who trains for a living. Thank you for saying something. |
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 Miss Laundry Misshap
Posts: 5271
| Ticktock - 2017-11-09 4:28 PM Update! OMG I just talked to the trainer. Well he was being a **** last week and They have quite the battle of wills going on. He said he definately is not sore he has an attitude so he had to get drastic with him. He said he had him going around good in the round pen and he was great until he put a rope on him and he cut in two. He was on another horse and he got to pulling and would not quit so he choked himself out. LIterally he said he passed out and when he got his breath he got up and took a deep breath and then then went back to work and he has not bucked since! THat was last week and he is now riding him every day, still in the round pen and always starting out snubbed to another horse so he cant get away from him. Once he is good he removes the other horse and he goes to work. He says he is not to the point where he is ready for outside yet and I dont blame him. He said he doesnt say "buck" lightly but he can buck. He said he gets a foot off the ground He said the next few weeks will tell a lot. I am so glad I didnt try to break him myself. He said he definintaly wasnt the worst he has seen and he is smart just stubborn! I wish he would just give it up already so they can move forward. I feel like he is either gonna be in the bucking string at Mesquite rodeo or a champion going to vegas barrel racing! Can you say the outlaws usually make the best ones lol! (I hope )
My guy removed the snub horse and let my filly buck herself out. Once she was done, she was done. She wasn't hurting anything but taking her energy out. He worked her in the round pen WITH the horse and made her work her tail off. Didn't take very long before she realized that super hard work wasn't worth it. I would have been terrified and hot that my horse passed out, I don't care what sort of attitude was thrown around. 1/2 a step further and you've got a dead horse. |
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Defense Attorney for The Horse
Location: Claremore, OK | GLP - 2017-11-10 10:23 AM
Liana D - 2017-11-10 9:56 AM
I hope your horse doesn’t become one of those stories that comes home starved, scarred, crippled, airway impaired from being choked, etc.
As some one who uses a rope quite a bit, I’ll say there’s never a need to choke out a horse. Never.
Abuse begins where knowledge ends.
I am so glad that you chimed in. I have been thinking this very thing, but being as I am not a trainer, I didn't think my opinion would matter. It means a lot more when it comes from some one who trains for a living. Thank you for saying something.
I really try to keep my posts positive but in the end, I'm in it for the horse. The trainer using a pony horse is a pink flag to me. Choking the horse is a red flag.
A rope can be a great tool to help any age of horse. In the wrong hands it's a deadly weapon.
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Veteran
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| Choking a horse = taking their heart/try away. They may give up fighting, but it's not due to being educated, it's due to being "broken". I don't care what kind of attitude a horse has, choking is never "okay" |
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Location: Up North in Minnesnowta. | Ticktock - 2017-11-09 4:28 PM Update! OMG I just talked to the trainer. Well he was being a **** last week and They have quite the battle of wills going on. He said he definately is not sore he has an attitude so he had to get drastic with him. He said he had him going around good in the round pen and he was great until he put a rope on him and he cut in two. He was on another horse and he got to pulling and would not quit so he choked himself out. LIterally he said he passed out and when he got his breath he got up and took a deep breath and then then went back to work and he has not bucked since! THat was last week and he is now riding him every day, still in the round pen and always starting out snubbed to another horse so he cant get away from him. Once he is good he removes the other horse and he goes to work. He says he is not to the point where he is ready for outside yet and I dont blame him. He said he doesnt say "buck" lightly but he can buck. He said he gets a foot off the ground He said the next few weeks will tell a lot. I am so glad I didnt try to break him myself. He said he definintaly wasnt the worst he has seen and he is smart just stubborn! I wish he would just give it up already so they can move forward. I feel like he is either gonna be in the bucking string at Mesquite rodeo or a champion going to vegas barrel racing! Can you say the outlaws usually make the best ones lol! (I hope ) I took this as the choking out was not intentional by the trainer. *I do not advocate choking out* just playing devil's advocate. We accidently choked out a wild weanling years ago. He did wake up a changed horse. I would never intentionally choke one out, though. I remember it being quite traumatic and scary. I hope your horse has turned a corner in his training/breaking.
Edited by MNBrlRacer 2017-11-10 11:09 AM
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Defense Attorney for The Horse
Location: Claremore, OK | MNBrlRacer - 2017-11-10 11:07 AM
Ticktock - 2017-11-09 4:28 PM Update! OMG I just talked to the trainer. Well he was being a **** last week and They have quite the battle of wills going on. He said he definately is not sore he has an attitude so he had to get drastic with him. He said he had him going around good in the round pen and he was great until he put a rope on him and he cut in two. He was on another horse and he got to pulling and would not quit so he choked himself out. LIterally he said he passed out and when he got his breath he got up and took a deep breath and then then went back to work and he has not bucked since! THat was last week and he is now riding him every day, still in the round pen and always starting out snubbed to another horse so he cant get away from him. Once he is good he removes the other horse and he goes to work. He says he is not to the point where he is ready for outside yet and I dont blame him. He said he doesnt say "buck" lightly but he can buck. He said he gets a foot off the ground He said the next few weeks will tell a lot. I am so glad I didnt try to break him myself. He said he definintaly wasnt the worst he has seen and he is smart just stubborn! I wish he would just give it up already so they can move forward. I feel like he is either gonna be in the bucking string at Mesquite rodeo or a champion going to vegas barrel racing! Can you say the outlaws usually make the best ones lol! (I hope )
I took this as the choking out was not intentional by the trainer. *I do not advocate choking out* just playing devil's advocate. We accidently choked out a wild weanling years ago. He did wake up a changed horse. I would never intentionally choke one out, though. I hope your horse has turned a corner in his training/breaking.
There are plenty of ways to get out of a horse choking himself, even if he's snubbed to another horse.
at the very least, he could've undallied and regrouped, I harm, no foul. He chose to either lose his temper and stay hooked or just didn't know what to do.
That's why I said "abuse begins where knowledge ends" |
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Expert
Posts: 1514
Location: Up North in Minnesnowta. | Liana D - 2017-11-10 11:15 AM MNBrlRacer - 2017-11-10 11:07 AM Ticktock - 2017-11-09 4:28 PM Update! OMG I just talked to the trainer. Well he was being a **** last week and They have quite the battle of wills going on. He said he definately is not sore he has an attitude so he had to get drastic with him. He said he had him going around good in the round pen and he was great until he put a rope on him and he cut in two. He was on another horse and he got to pulling and would not quit so he choked himself out. LIterally he said he passed out and when he got his breath he got up and took a deep breath and then then went back to work and he has not bucked since! THat was last week and he is now riding him every day, still in the round pen and always starting out snubbed to another horse so he cant get away from him. Once he is good he removes the other horse and he goes to work. He says he is not to the point where he is ready for outside yet and I dont blame him. He said he doesnt say "buck" lightly but he can buck. He said he gets a foot off the ground He said the next few weeks will tell a lot. I am so glad I didnt try to break him myself. He said he definintaly wasnt the worst he has seen and he is smart just stubborn! I wish he would just give it up already so they can move forward. I feel like he is either gonna be in the bucking string at Mesquite rodeo or a champion going to vegas barrel racing! Can you say the outlaws usually make the best ones lol! (I hope ) I took this as the choking out was not intentional by the trainer. *I do not advocate choking out* just playing devil's advocate. We accidently choked out a wild weanling years ago. He did wake up a changed horse. I would never intentionally choke one out, though. I hope your horse has turned a corner in his training/breaking. There are plenty of ways to get out of a horse choking himself, even if he's snubbed to another horse. at the very least, he could've undallied and regrouped, I harm, no foul. He chose to either lose his temper and stay hooked or just didn't know what to do. That's why I said "abuse begins where knowledge ends"
Edited by MNBrlRacer 2017-11-10 12:50 PM
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Miss Laundry Misshap
Posts: 5271
| MNBrlRacer - 2017-11-10 11:26 AM Liana D - 2017-11-10 11:15 AM MNBrlRacer - 2017-11-10 11:07 AM Ticktock - 2017-11-09 4:28 PM Update! OMG I just talked to the trainer. Well he was being a **** last week and They have quite the battle of wills going on. He said he definately is not sore he has an attitude so he had to get drastic with him. He said he had him going around good in the round pen and he was great until he put a rope on him and he cut in two. He was on another horse and he got to pulling and would not quit so he choked himself out. LIterally he said he passed out and when he got his breath he got up and took a deep breath and then then went back to work and he has not bucked since! THat was last week and he is now riding him every day, still in the round pen and always starting out snubbed to another horse so he cant get away from him. Once he is good he removes the other horse and he goes to work. He says he is not to the point where he is ready for outside yet and I dont blame him. He said he doesnt say "buck" lightly but he can buck. He said he gets a foot off the ground He said the next few weeks will tell a lot. I am so glad I didnt try to break him myself. He said he definintaly wasnt the worst he has seen and he is smart just stubborn! I wish he would just give it up already so they can move forward. I feel like he is either gonna be in the bucking string at Mesquite rodeo or a champion going to vegas barrel racing! Can you say the outlaws usually make the best ones lol! (I hope )
I took this as the choking out was not intentional by the trainer. *I do not advocate choking out* just playing devil's advocate. We accidently choked out a wild weanling years ago. He did wake up a changed horse. I would never intentionally choke one out, though. I hope your horse has turned a corner in his training/breaking. There are plenty of ways to get out of a horse choking himself, even if he's snubbed to another horse. at the very least, he could've undallied and regrouped, I harm, no foul. He chose to either lose his temper and stay hooked or just didn't know what to do. That's why I said "abuse begins where knowledge ends"
That was my thought?
My other was wow, what sort of horse was he dallied too that he could pull that hard and not pull him over?
I'm also naive as to what some trainers use to dally with I guess.
I've seen a horse almost choked out (mine in a freak trailer accident) and we cut the halter. That was a steel trailer he was hanging/pulling on. Can't imagine dangling from another horse. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 433
Location: The Lone Star State | Dont worry yall, I trust this trainer. He will only do what is necessary. If he is good enough to send multiple barrel racing NFR qualifer's horses to him to be broke he is good enough for me. So lets get off the "abuse" train. I would rather him understand bucking is not acceptable from someone else than me. I would rather him get his ass kicked so he has some understanding of who is boss than him injure me later! I have spoken to a couple of people that have and have had own sons of Frenchmans Bogie and apparently they are all quite tough minded until you get them out of this(most do, some dont). Im keeping my fingers crossed. His next stop will be a working ranch if I can find one to ship him too. I will give him every opportunity to be a great horse but I wont put up with a bucking sucker either. His choice.
Stay tuned! |
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  Champ
Posts: 19623
Location: Peg-Leg Julia Grimm |  |
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Veteran
Posts: 217
| Glad he found a breaking point for your hard headed guy. My two cents, its prob not worth that, but if he would've let that guy have his head he probably would've taken advantage of it and tried harder next time to get away with it. Hope for more good news in the following weeks :) |
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 Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | Liana D - 2017-11-10 8:56 AM I hope your horse doesn’t become one of those stories that comes home starved, scarred, crippled, airway impaired from being choked, etc. As some one who uses a rope quite a bit, I’ll say there’s never a need to choke out a horse. Never. Abuse begins where knowledge ends.
I agree. We rope to halter break and ours are unhandled 5 month old babies. I have never put enough pressure to ever choke one. Just teach them to give and release. Scares me some of the stories that involve roping them. But I do hope your horse comes around and makes a nice riding horse. |
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 Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | sounds like hes breaking his spirit and abuse to me......and your convincing yourself just because hes s big time trainer that its ok....and it makes you feel better...........just my 2 cents..
Edited by Bibliafarm 2017-11-16 9:49 PM
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Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | I may be the odd one but I could care less if a trainer is one that has started world class etc etc. I sent my show horse to be started by a guy that supposedly did a great job and did some for WPRA barrel racers. My horse came back not knowing anything but worse, he had a mystery cut the day I went to see him ride and bring him home. Looked like a knife cut from heel to heel and he was lame for 3 months. Found out later after his divorce that he cut his ex wife's horse's belly open. He was a fraud and a fake.
I worked with a guy in TX that is pretty well known in the cow horse world. Guy is a total a-hole and mean as a snake when no one is watching him school one that isn't born knowing "his style." I know of a race horse place that just loves him taking their off the track horses and restarting them. You couldn't pay me to send him a horse.
Regardless of how well known someone is, it never hurts to stop in and bug them. Make sure you like what you see. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 433
Location: The Lone Star State | UPDATE 11/30! Trainer just sent video(tried to load but it wouldnt) He is loping around, circles, side passing, backing up nicely, roll backs and no bucking at all. Trainer said he is riding him outside and he is so much better. He said the bucking has stopped. He is not perfect by any means but sooo much improvement. He looks awesome and healthy. He said he is getting more confident as he goes along. I am so happy I wish the video would post. Considering how much of a turd he was for the first month+ I am very happy with the colt and this progress and with the trainer. Definitely no abuse there(for you abuse bandwaggoners) ;)
Keeping my fingers crossed for continued good reports. I am going to see him in a couple of weeks.
:) :) |
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