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 Texas Taco
Posts: 7499
   
Location: Bandera, TX | horsegirl - 2018-03-12 12:21 PM TheDutchMan01 - 2018-03-12 1:19 PM horsegirl - 2018-03-12 11:44 AM Thank you all for your suggestions. I tried to ride her yesterday and within 5 steps, I knew it wasn't good. I have always been able to feel it better than I can see it. I made it about 50 feet and then got off and lunged her instead to see her movement. At this time, she is barely walking sound under saddle. Now, on the ground with no rider, you cant really tell anything. What are you considering not sound at a walk? Does she just bobble isn’t it full out obviously lame? If she just bobbles some at a trot she could still make a trail horse. We have a mare that I tried to make a barrel horse out of...came up lame eventually and my grandpa took her as a trail horse. After a couple years she doesn’t limp anymore at a trot like she used to. He rides pretty regularly but nothing hard. Only goes camping a few times a year. Hopefully you can find some that could get some use out of her....
Interesting... my horse acts the same and I'm also unable to figure out what is going on exactly... |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | horsegirl - 2018-03-12 12:21 PM TheDutchMan01 - 2018-03-12 1:19 PM horsegirl - 2018-03-12 11:44 AM Thank you all for your suggestions. I tried to ride her yesterday and within 5 steps, I knew it wasn't good. I have always been able to feel it better than I can see it. I made it about 50 feet and then got off and lunged her instead to see her movement. At this time, she is barely walking sound under saddle. Now, on the ground with no rider, you cant really tell anything. What are you considering not sound at a walk? Does she just bobble isn’t it full out obviously lame? If she just bobbles some at a trot she could still make a trail horse. We have a mare that I tried to make a barrel horse out of...came up lame eventually and my grandpa took her as a trail horse. After a couple years she doesn’t limp anymore at a trot like she used to. He rides pretty regularly but nothing hard. Only goes camping a few times a year. Hopefully you can find some that could get some use out of her....
Since shes doing all this I would look into Kissing spine and have her tested for EPM.. |
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 The One
Posts: 7997
Location: South Georgia | Unfortunately, I really cant afford to do any more for her. I have to draw a line at some point and after several thousand dollars in vet bills in one year, that is my line. My concern is what to do with her now because I really like her and want her in a good home of some sort. I'd like to avoid putting her down if at all possible, but I can't drag this out. I wish I could afford to chase all of these potential diagnosis, but I feel like I have already done so and have not had much of any success. I also wish I could just turn her out and give her time, but I board and I do not have that time nor the money to wait longer and try more things. I'm worrying myself sick and I'm out of money. I am looking for suggestions as to how to place her or what to do with her from those that may have had a similar situation. I can't spend more. I just can't. I wish I could. |
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 Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
| horsegirl - 2018-03-12 1:13 PM
Unfortunately, I really cant afford to do any more for her. I have to draw a line at some point and after several thousand dollars in vet bills in one year, that is my line. My concern is what to do with her now because I really like her and want her in a good home of some sort. I'd like to avoid putting her down if at all possible, but I can't drag this out. I wish I could afford to chase all of these potential diagnosis, but I feel like I have already done so and have not had much of any success. I also wish I could just turn her out and give her time, but I board and I do not have that time nor the money to wait longer and try more things. I'm worrying myself sick and I'm out of money. I am looking for suggestions as to how to place her or what to do with her from those that may have had a similar situation. I can't spend more. I just can't. I wish I could.
I can feel your pain. It would have helped to do radiographs from the beginnings vs injecting to see if that was even the problem (could have saved ya some money). What you're describing could be so many things. My gelding for example, gets real dumpy on his front end when his back is tight (diagnosed ks) but he also has horrible front end confirmation so he has corrective shoes. But easily could have been misdiagnosed for so many things. However, I never made any treatment decisions without radiographs or ultrasound or whatever I was looking at at the time.
The recip mare idea is great. Royal Vista in Purcell, OK has a good program. Good luck. She is a pretty mare. |
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  Champ
Posts: 19623
Location: Peg-Leg Julia Grimm | In September, I had another vet look at her and he made a chiropractice adjustment to her hip. She was sound and not lame for 2 months after this. I had my horse back.
^^^This was the one ray of hope? I had a horse that wouldn't hold chiro adjustments in his pelvis. I pulled his shoes, stood him squared on level concrete and looked at his pelvis from behind. He was unlevel in his hips. After making sure his feet were trimmed the same as the other hind, I put a wedge under his low hip and put shoes back on. He rode off much happier and comfortable. Just sayin.
Also, I haven't read past the first page. Have you tested her for PSSM1 the other P2 variants? If she is positive for one or more, she may be helped by a diet change. Also, just sayin.
She's a VERY nice looking horse. It would be a shame to leave any stones un-turned. I bet she has papers somewhere. She too nice to be a crossbred.
Good luck. They do drive you to drinking sometimes.  |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 380
| That bouncy lope thing sounds like SI or pelvic issues. Had a mare with this same issue and vet said she would not ever be sound and all she could do was light walk trot trail riding and breeding. So I sold her at a massive loss. Now she is even worse than before I sold her and wished I had just out her down. New owners won't. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 762
Location: NC | My mare was like this. Spent thousands and couldnt get her sound. And we boarded and I couldnt justify paying $500 a horse for one i couldnt ride. Thankfully she was papered and bred well. Shes know a broodmare out in the middle of the country. And we have now moved and horses are in our yard. If she ever went back up for sale she would be on her way east in a heartbeat but at the time it was my only option. So i feel you on that! Try recip mare. At least you know she wont be abused or run lame |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 725
| If you know horse people in your area I would ask around see if anyone would be interested in taking her on as a "Project" maybe free to a good home, and they will spend the money on the vet bills. I know in my area there would probably be a few girls that would do that. Just make sure it's someone you know and trust so she doesn't end up in bad hands. |
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Go Get Em!
Posts: 13503
Location: OH. IO | it breaks my heart to see this.If you would like to test for EPM,I'll pay for it.Our friends gelding acted this way,bucking,not wanting to work and even 100 percent lame.it was EPM. IM WILLING TO HELP YOU. |
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Gettin Jiggy Wit It
Posts: 2734
| horsegirl - 2018-03-12 12:21 PM
TheDutchMan01 - 2018-03-12 1:19 PM horsegirl - 2018-03-12 11:44 AM Thank you all for your suggestions. I tried to ride her yesterday and within 5 steps, I knew it wasn't good. I have always been able to feel it better than I can see it. I made it about 50 feet and then got off and lunged her instead to see her movement. At this time, she is barely walking sound under saddle. Now, on the ground with no rider, you cant really tell anything. What are you considering not sound at a walk? Does she just bobble isn’t it full out obviously lame? If she just bobbles some at a trot she could still make a trail horse. We have a mare that I tried to make a barrel horse out of...came up lame eventually and my grandpa took her as a trail horse. After a couple years she doesn’t limp anymore at a trot like she used to. He rides pretty regularly but nothing hard. Only goes camping a few times a year. Hopefully you can find some that could get some use out of her....
I know you've done everything and saw some great lameness vets but have they thought sacroiliac issues? Or kissing spine? The bunny hopping and bucking with hind legs together sounds a lot like sacroiliac issues. Its so hard to diagnose. It can be done with a rectal ultrasound or a bone scan... Or just injecting the sacroiliac joint and seeing how they respond. Kissing spine is checked with x rays or a bone scan. Like I said I know you've done everything and it's getting expensive. From the fall of 2016 my good mare and my colt have been injured up until now. They are finally on the road to recovery... It was killing me financially and I was wondering why I was doing it.... Because I am nuts that's why! The only month I was not at the vet in the last year and a half was January of this year! So I can sympathize with you 150%. It's so hard to think about when it's time to draw the line. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 889
| You've gotten a lot of good advice.
I have dealt with a very similar situation since July 2017, front right foot lameness. I fired a vet and farrier in the process of figuring it out. I think the word "navicular" is super taboo and is used incorrectly. Also, every "navicular" horse cannot be treated the same. I FINALLY found a vet that didn't pin hole her as such...and a farrier that knew what the hell he was doing. After 6 months of corrective shoeing and being turned out, she's sound.
I also took her off all processed feeds, Renew Gold and some whole oats plus EQUI-BONE. I will probably never take the mare off of it. Call the company and talk to the people. They are fantastic. I am not saying it's a miracle cure, but I honestly believe it helped. |
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The One
Posts: 7997
Location: South Georgia | Y'all, I have been blown away from the outpouring of support, advice, and information received with this posting. It all has made me think hard about this. I'm going to give it another shot and take her down to the lameness expert one more time. Prayers please. I want to save her. I owe her.
Edited by horsegirl 2018-03-13 12:22 PM
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 Miss Laundry Misshap
Posts: 5271
| horsegirl - 2018-03-13 12:18 PM Y'all, I have been blown away from the outpouring of support, advice, and information received with this posting. It all has made me think hard about this. I'm going to give it another shot and take her down to the lameness expert one more time. Prayers please. I want to save her. I owe her.
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 784
Location: USA | horsegirl - 2018-03-13 12:18 PM Y'all, I have been blown away from the outpouring of support, advice, and information received with this posting. It all has made me think hard about this. I'm going to give it another shot and take her down to the lameness expert one more time. Prayers please. I want to save her. I owe her.
If you can do a bone scan.... do it! It's well worth the money. It will show everything that is wrong. No more guessing. |
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| horsegirl - 2018-03-12 10:21 AM TheDutchMan01 - 2018-03-12 1:19 PM horsegirl - 2018-03-12 11:44 AM Thank you all for your suggestions. I tried to ride her yesterday and within 5 steps, I knew it wasn't good. I have always been able to feel it better than I can see it. I made it about 50 feet and then got off and lunged her instead to see her movement. At this time, she is barely walking sound under saddle. Now, on the ground with no rider, you cant really tell anything. What are you considering not sound at a walk? Does she just bobble isn’t it full out obviously lame? If she just bobbles some at a trot she could still make a trail horse. We have a mare that I tried to make a barrel horse out of...came up lame eventually and my grandpa took her as a trail horse. After a couple years she doesn’t limp anymore at a trot like she used to. He rides pretty regularly but nothing hard. Only goes camping a few times a year. Hopefully you can find some that could get some use out of her....
I know your horse is unregistered but positive test results for many variants are showing up in many sought after barrel horse and cowhorse pedigrees and trace back to the earliest generations.
Join the PSSM Forum facebook group and ask questions - most of the members are very eager to help the horses. It could be that a few diet changes are all she needs to be on the road to better health and if that is not the case, you aren't out much financially and it could help you in making a decision down the road when you're ready to purchase your next horse.
Edited by wishingforsun 2018-03-13 2:32 PM
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | I wish you all the luck with this mare, hope that everything works out for the both of you, sometimes we sink alot of money into something and still dont get anywhere with it. Hugs  |
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 My Heart Be Happy
Posts: 9159
Location: Arkansas | I'm so so glad you posted this! Prayers for her and you as y'all continue this trying journey. It's wonderful you care enough about her to keep trying. Hope she pays you back tenfold  |
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Location: in the ozone | As 2 others have mentioned before me, consider PSSM. Obscure lamenesses, bucking, cinchy, does she look like she "bunny hops" in the back when cantering? She looks to have muscle wasting (that is PSSM2, it is not a starch & sugar issue, it is a muscle disease). I would also join the PSSM Forum (NOT the one that mentions 5 Panel testing) and pick brains ... there are some great folks to suggest diet changes that might help. |
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Veteran
Posts: 174
Location: Wisconsin | I feel your pain. My daughter's horse has been off since July 2017. (My daughter is a college student in western SD. I am in Wisconsin.) We had her teeth done and had the chiro adjust her--there was some improvement. Then in August the mare bucked my daughter off while doing slow work and was even more off. At first we thought it was a stifle issue as she moved as if she had string halt but only at a lope and on the right. (I went to visit in September and watch the mare move) We had her stifle blistered, changed the angles on her back feet and gave her estrogen--all to no avail. We xrayed and ultra sounded. Saw nothing. We then tested her for EPM and 2 of the indicators from Pathogenes Inc indicated EPM. We treated her. No improvement. Our vet didn't think this issue was caused by EPM as she had no other indicators. I sent in the hair sample for PSSM1. She is negative (yeah!). My daughter's vet started videoing the movement and sent them to Dr. Swanson in Littleton, CO. After several months of videos and collaberation, they finally discovered that she had injured her calcaneal insertions of the superficial digital flexor tendon. The tendon on the inside of the hock had become detached, which causes the tendon to catch on the hock and thus the stringhalt movement. Dr Cammack had seen this once before. Dr Swanson has seen it 3 times. In the past, equine surgeons tried to anchor the tendon back to the hock--without much success. Dr. Cammack did some research and found some case studies where instead of trying to anchor the tendon back to the hock, they loosen it so it no longer catches. They have had a lot of success with racehorses, jumpers and steeplechasers getting back to full performance levels after this procedure. The next step was to find an equine surgeon familiar with this procedure. We found him with Dr. Caleb Lund in Billings, MT. Surgery is scheduled for next week. We are keeping our fingers crossed. She will have to have a year off barrels but we can trail ride her about 2 months after surgery at a walk and trot. I have booked a breeding with French Streakin Jess . She will come back home with me in Wisconsin for her year off. I hope to be able to trail ride her, raise a nice baby and then send her back to my daughter to resume barrel racing.
My thought is, if she doesn't go back to the quality of barrel horse she was before the surgery, at least she will be more comfortable, may be a slower barrel horse, or we can pick up on her roping training, or raise more babies. She is registered--all cow bred--and will be eight this year.
We were lucky. We found a vet that worked with us. Didn't charge us an arm & a leg and sent her videos to other colleagues to try to figure this out. My daughter is in college with limited time to travel to different vets and limited funds. We have paid for boarding also during all of this and I feel your pain. We are lucky in that at least she can come back home to me while recovering.
Good luck in your decision. I had a lot of sleepless nights and tears through this process and we are not done yet by any means, but at least we now know what is injured.
Edited by pepsi 2018-03-14 9:30 AM
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 Northern Chocolate Queen
Posts: 16576
Location: ND | Totally understand how hard of a decision you are facing. I really hope you're able to find some answers with this vet you're trying now. With everything you've already tried, my mind, like a few others have posted is going to PSSM.
If you feel you're at the end of your resources in helping her & she's as uncomfortable as she sounds I really would put her down. Even if you give her away to someone that seems to be the perfect home their situation could change & she could easily end up in the wrong hands or kill pen. Sometimes even though it hurts terribly, the kindest thing we can do if we can't help them is to let them go.
I'm currently dealing with one that I rasied having a lot of problems. He's always been "odd" about little things & honestly I always thought he was slow mentally. Then late last fall he started tying up on me & I've been fighting that all winter with him. I'm doing some nutritional changes & hoping I can help him. He's a good horse & he deserves a future. But if I can't get him healthy, comfortable & able to live a normal life I will put him down at home. He doesn't deserve what could happen if I sold him or gave him away as a pasture pet. |
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