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Fear and Covid19

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Bear
Reg. Dec 2007
Posted 2020-04-21 1:52 PM
Subject: RE: Fear and Covid19



BHW Resident Surgeon


Posts: 25351
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Interesting timeline:

1/6 - NYT: "No Evidence Coronavirus is Spread by Humans"

1/6 - CDC warns Americans about travel to China

1/8 - CDC alert re: Chinese Coronavirus

1/14 - WHO: "no evidence for spread of coronavirus through human-to-human contact"

1/15 - Pelosi signs off on Trump impeachment.

1/20 - CDC activates Emergency Operations Center (before first case in US reported)

1/21 - Dr Fauci, widely respected expert: "This isn't something US citizens should be worried about right now." (Based on WHO assessment)

1/21 - 1st case of Covid19 in US

1/23 - US State Department orders all US Citizens to leave Wuhan, and CDC raises travel warning notice to "level 3". 

1/29 - President Trump assembles "Coronavirus Task Force", including Dr Birx and Dr Fauci....6 Covid19 cases now reported in Washington.

1/26 - Fauci: "Coronavirus a very, very low risk to the US" (again, based on WHO assessment)

1/28 - Buzzfeed: "Don't worry about Covid19.  Worry about the Flu."

1/31 - Vox: "Is this going to be a deadly pandemic?  No."

1/31 - WaPo: "How Our Brains Make Coronavirus Scarier Than it Is."

1/31 - CNN: "As Covid19 spreads, fear is fueling Racism and Xenophobia".

1/31 - Alex Azar, HHS Secretary, declares US "public health emergency" for Covid19. 

1/31 - Trump declares Travel Ban from China - 7 cases of Covid19 and no deaths reported, at this point. 

2/2 - FDA issues emergency use declaration for CDC diagnostic tests (later found to be useless and outdated)

2/2 - Trump mentions Covid19 in SOTU - Covid19 never mentioned in any Democrat debates, at this point. 

2/3 - WaPo: "Why We Should be Wary of an Aggressive Government Response to Covid19". 

2/4 - NYT: "Who says it's not safe to travel to China? It's unjust and it doesn't work anyway."

2/24 - Pelosi appears in San Francisco's Chinatown and encourages people to flock to enjoy festivities.

2/26 - NYT: "Let's Call it the Trump Virus!"

2/29 - First US Death from Covid19 

3/2 - NY mayor Bill DeBlasio and NYC health commissioner encourage New Yorkers to come out, mingle with the crowd and celebrate Chinese New Year festivities. The New York health commissioner echoes his sentiments.

3/4 - Anderson Cooper (CNN): "You should be more concerned about the Flu!"

3/9 - WaPo: "Covid 19 is Trump's Chernobyl"

3/9 - Dr Fauci: "People should still be able to go on cruises, if they wish."

 

As Paul Harvey would say, "And now we know the rest of the story."

 

 

 

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Palopony
Reg. Feb 2006
Posted 2020-04-21 2:21 PM
Subject: RE: Fear and Covid19


Ms. Dr. Phil


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Location: My happy place

Mighty Broke - 2020-04-21 11:54 AM


Palopony - 2020-04-21 11:13 AM


No reason for me to be scared I was just trying to explain what I thought he was saying.  I guess I was wrong, I don't have a problem with it at all.


I could explain a million things that could have been done different, starting with just what he did and said in February after the WHO notified them China had a problem but honestly.  What difference does it make now?  Ordering PPE and the very best vents & tests then IMO would have been useful instead of sending PPE to China.  I have seen the 69 page document they gave him on pandemics when he was sworn in, he could have paid attention to that.  I don't need to look up pandemic team members for you, some are all over mainstream media.  


Why don't you show me who team Trump had on this before he made one the end of January?  Do you think one was not needed before we had a problem?


I think the fact that he had a 2 hour press conference and didn't even mention blocking people from coming to the US was weird.  Don't say anything when on TV but go back and tweet it.  Just seems strange to me and I think it's a good idea just a weird way to do it.  IMO could have been done a long time ago, who would want to vacation here now?  But hey we are number 1 so I guess we are finally winning.


I have no answers just think it's a worthy topic to discuss, it sure is scary to watch and very sad for our country.


Let me ask you some questions.


Do you think the country should go back to work without more testing and PPE?


Would you go in for elective surgery right now?


Do you think telling people to stay home and then have them protest is a good idea?


Would you be happy to have your loved ones working with infected people for minium wage?


I agree some stipulations are crazy but I see a lot of crazy people out there lacking common sense.  


I can't wait for you to show me who has been watching out for pandemics for the last 3 years?  I think most of the agencies you will say he cut funding for, keep that in mind.



You do realize that Bear is a surgeon and had had to deal with a lot of this directly---correct ?????? 


I do know he is a doctor.  Which I find amazing that he spends so much time posting political stuff instead of medical stuff.  I believe if he spent as much time on virus research he could find a cure.

I personally don't care if people go back to work or not I am forever thankful I don't have to.  I can watch results and decide for myself just like anyone else.  Just wondering how others felt about it, I see you all think he's doing a wonderful job and are happy campers.  

 

 

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JcNhEmI
Reg. Apr 2009
Posted 2020-04-21 2:35 PM
Subject: RE: Fear and Covid19



Living within my means


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Palopony - 2020-04-21 1:21 PM

Mighty Broke - 2020-04-21 11:54 AM

Palopony - 2020-04-21 11:13 AM

No reason for me to be scared I was just trying to explain what I thought he was saying.  I guess I was wrong, I don't have a problem with it at all.

I could explain a million things that could have been done different, starting with just what he did and said in February after the WHO notified them China had a problem but honestly.  What difference does it make now?  Ordering PPE and the very best vents & tests then IMO would have been useful instead of sending PPE to China.  I have seen the 69 page document they gave him on pandemics when he was sworn in, he could have paid attention to that.  I don't need to look up pandemic team members for you, some are all over mainstream media.  

Why don't you show me who team Trump had on this before he made one the end of January?  Do you think one was not needed before we had a problem?

I think the fact that he had a 2 hour press conference and didn't even mention blocking people from coming to the US was weird.  Don't say anything when on TV but go back and tweet it.  Just seems strange to me and I think it's a good idea just a weird way to do it.  IMO could have been done a long time ago, who would want to vacation here now?  But hey we are number 1 so I guess we are finally winning.

I have no answers just think it's a worthy topic to discuss, it sure is scary to watch and very sad for our country.

Let me ask you some questions.

Do you think the country should go back to work without more testing and PPE?

Would you go in for elective surgery right now?

Do you think telling people to stay home and then have them protest is a good idea?

Would you be happy to have your loved ones working with infected people for minium wage?

I agree some stipulations are crazy but I see a lot of crazy people out there lacking common sense.  

I can't wait for you to show me who has been watching out for pandemics for the last 3 years?  I think most of the agencies you will say he cut funding for, keep that in mind.

You do realize that Bear is a surgeon and had had to deal with a lot of this directly---correct ?????? 

I do know he is a doctor.  Which I find amazing that he spends so much time posting political stuff instead of medical stuff.  I believe if he spent as much time on virus research he could find a cure.

I personally don't care if people go back to work or not I am forever thankful I don't have to.  I can watch results and decide for myself just like anyone else.  Just wondering how others felt about it, I see you all think he's doing a wonderful job and are happy campers.  

 

 

Oh my hell!!!!

You obviously don't know anyone out of work, or struggling because of the virus.

EVERYONE that is out of work needs to get back, ASAP!

I know people who are self-employed, there is no unemployment coming in for them. They need back to work and so does the other MILLIONS of Americans out of work right now. 

 

Palopony, so far, you've mostly been annoying to me but that comment really made me see red!

 

 



Edited by JcNhEmI 2020-04-21 2:38 PM
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Palopony
Reg. Feb 2006
Posted 2020-04-21 2:48 PM
Subject: RE: Fear and Covid19


Ms. Dr. Phil


20001000500100
Location: My happy place

I said that because You or Bear suggested I would be against anyone going back to work.

Most of my family members are still working, their bosses who sit in offices all day think it is fine for them to work around the public.

I do know people out of work and I'm sorry for them, another reason I have always preached to not live above your means and save for a rainy day.  I want the people who do have to work to have protection and a safe place to work.  Healthcare affordable for all, I didn't say free, seems it breaks a few people too and has for years.  Get mad and see red all you want some of you make me see red everyday.

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Bear
Reg. Dec 2007
Posted 2020-04-21 3:00 PM
Subject: RE: Fear and Covid19



BHW Resident Surgeon


Posts: 25351
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Location: Bastrop, Texas

JcNhEmI - 2020-04-21 1:50 PM


Bear - 2020-04-21 11:42 AM


JcNhEmI - 2020-04-21 11:00 AM


Palopony - 2020-04-21 9:13 AM


No reason for me to be scared I was just trying to explain what I thought he was saying.  I guess I was wrong, I don't have a problem with it at all.


I could explain a million things that could have been done different, starting with just what he did and said in February after the WHO notified them China had a problem but honestly.  What difference does it make now?  Ordering PPE and the very best vents & tests then IMO would have been useful instead of sending PPE to China.  I have seen the 69 page document they gave him on pandemics when he was sworn in, he could have paid attention to that.  I don't need to look up pandemic team members for you, some are all over mainstream media.  


Why don't you show me who team Trump had on this before he made one the end of January?  Do you think one was not needed before we had a problem?


I think the fact that he had a 2 hour press conference and didn't even mention blocking people from coming to the US was weird.  Don't say anything when on TV but go back and tweet it.  Just seems strange to me and I think it's a good idea just a weird way to do it.  IMO could have been done a long time ago, who would want to vacation here now?  But hey we are number 1 so I guess we are finally winning.


I have no answers just think it's a worthy topic to discuss, it sure is scary to watch and very sad for our country.


Let me ask you some questions.


Do you think the country should go back to work without more testing and PPE?


YES! The country MUST get back to work. Eventually we're all going to come in contact with it, if we haven't already. The testing needs to continue but we can't hide forever waiting on more testing.


Would you go in for elective surgery right now?


Yes, if it wasn't something that required an overnight stay. A lot of hospitals are having the furlough employees because the hospitals aren't seeing the patients they were before COVID.


Do you think telling people to stay home and then have them protest is a good idea?


It is up to the Governors of each state to make the stay at home decisions, not President Trump. If we don't get people back to work and able to leave their house, we will continue to see protests. 


Would you be happy to have your loved ones working with infected people for minium wage?


My sister is an RN so she is far from minimum wage, are there health care workers that only make minimum wage? Or are you talking grocery store, gas station and restaurant workers? Again, we'll come in contact with it at some point, if we haven't already.


I agree some stipulations are crazy but I see a lot of crazy people out there lacking common sense.  


I can't wait for you to show me who has been watching out for pandemics for the last 3 years?  I think most of the agencies you will say he cut funding for, keep that in mind.





I was going to reply to her blather, but you did that for me.  Nice job!


She still can't say what Obozo would have done differently, or Biden, for that matter, other than Biden would have had a team in place.


As to that vaunted "Pandemic Response Team" that was relocated to other departments within the government by John Bolton, here's something that I've been wondering about. After the H1N1 influenza outbreak in 2009, a nationwide shortage of masks in the national supply resulted and caused a 2- to 3-year backlog of orders for the N95 masks, the stockpile distributed about three-quarters of its inventory and didn’t build back the supply.  That was in 2009-10.  If that "Pandemic Response Team" was so critical, where the hel! were they?  What's their excuse for not replenishing the 3/4ths of the N-95 masks?  Hmmm?



I debated on responding, took me a while to hit post. . .


She's been asked MULTIPLE times to say what Obozo, and others would of done different, with no answer.


As I've said before, the President is dammed if he does and dammed if he doesn’t. No one has ever dealt with anything like this. There is nothing to compare whether Trump did it right or not. 


and AGAIN, no matter what side we're all on I think we can agree we need to get the country opened back up, ASAP.


Palopony might not agree though. . . 


 


There are some races around her in May planning on running. I'm not very optimistic but I hope I'm wrong and they get to have their races. 


 


Bear can you explain this antibody test. How do they decide who gets an antibody test? Is it something everyone should or will get? I also seen today the FDA approved an at home test?? Did I see that right? 


Sorry I missed your question. I'll try to answer it and keep it simple.  
There are two basic questions we try to address:

1.) Does someone actually have Covid19?  That's where the swabs come into play.  One test requires a deep nasopharyngeal swab.  It actually will detect the presence of the virus.  The biggest problem with that is people gag, cough, and sneeze, so every time a tech obtains the swab they have to change their PPE (gowns, gloves, etc...) after each test.  Those gowns are expensive and still in short supply).  The newer test is just a simple swab on the inside of the nostril.  People can do these at home and bring them in for testing. No PPE is needed for this. The new complete home test kits run around $120, and like everything else that has just been approved, the supply is limited at this point.  It's analogous to the HPT for pregnancy.  They reserve these for healthcare workers and first responders.  I don't know when they'll be available for widespread use.

2.) The next category is the "antibody test". It can also be used to see if you have Covid19 infection and it can be used to determine whether or not you have immunity (from past exposure).  The basic immune antibody response to a viral infection involves IgG and IgM (Ig = "immunoglobulin").  The first antibody that is produced is IgM, which is a large antibody.  It appears between 3-7 days after exposure. It lasts a variable length of time, but is usually gone in 6 months.  IgG appears late, like 3 weeks after exposure.  It lasts a long time, up to a lifetime. If you test positive for anti-Covid19 IgM but negative for IgG, that suggests recent, or active Covid19.  If you test positive for both IgM and IgG for Covid 19, you might be recovering from active infection, or still fighting it...but it's recent in either case.  If you are negative for Covid19 IgM but positive for IgG, that suggests past infection and probable immunity, depending on the "titer" of IgG. Provided the titers are adequate, these are the people from whom "convalescent serum" can be obtained to give to critically ill Covid19 patients.  One donor can treat 3 people.  This is a great test, but production is not real fast.  Donald Trump cannot sh!t these tests, just like he can't sh!t swabs, ventilators, and gowns.  You have to understand that the speed at which this team got these things tested, approved, and produced is record-setting.  Normally, these things would take several months, even years. 

Now here's the problem.  Just because you test negative on one day, doesn't mean you won't be positive a day or more later.  It's like HIV testing where a test may be negative early right after exposure.  Ideally, in a perfect world, you get a negative test when you have mild symptoms, and a repeat negative test two weeks later.  Then you are pretty much cleared.  

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Racer4eva
Reg. Feb 2009
Posted 2020-04-21 3:01 PM
Subject: RE: Fear and Covid19


Elite Veteran


Posts: 762
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Location: NC

Palopony - 2020-04-21 3:48 PM


I said that because You or Bear suggested I would be against anyone going back to work.


Most of my family members are still working, their bosses who sit in offices all day think it is fine for them to work around the public.


I do know people out of work and I'm sorry for them, another reason I have always preached to not live above your means and save for a rainy day.  I want the people who do have to work to have protection and a safe place to work.  Healthcare affordable for all, I didn't say free, seems it breaks a few people too and has for years.  Get mad and see red all you want some of you make me see red everyday.


Ok I normally don't get political or respond to these threads but this ****ed me off. I'm a retail working while going back to school to further my education. We have been slammed busy. My boss who just had her baby, has been working 60+ hours a week till she had to have an emergency c-section on Easter, thanks to this virus.  But I have friends that are self employed and are hurting badly. So what you are saying is that they should have been saving for a rainy day? But you are retired and therefore do not worry about where your next check is coming from! These people have families that rely on their income, it's not just them. And most have animals as well.  You are making yourself sound very self-involved!  

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Bear
Reg. Dec 2007
Posted 2020-04-21 3:15 PM
Subject: RE: Fear and Covid19



BHW Resident Surgeon


Posts: 25351
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Location: Bastrop, Texas

Palopony, I was writing some "medical stuff" as you were struggling with your post.

I wasn't aware of your rule that I need to stick to "medical stuff".

Here's my friendly advice to you: Give it up.  Your attempts to convince people that Trump is the reason for the Covid19 or the collapse of the economy, you are striking out.  You sound lame, and I'm embarrassed for you.  Anyone can see your main goal is to impugn Trump, and your understanding of the subject matter is very weak.

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OregonBR
Reg. Dec 2003
Posted 2020-04-21 3:29 PM
Subject: RE: Fear and Covid19


Military family

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Bear - 2020-04-21 1:15 PM


Palopony, I was writing some "medical stuff" as you were struggling with your post.


I wasn't aware of your rule that I need to stick to "medical stuff".


Here's my friendly advice to you: Give it up.  Your attempts to convince people that Trump is the reason for the Covid19 or the collapse of the economy, you are striking out.  You sound lame, and I'm embarrassed for you.  Anyone can see your main goal is to impugn Trump, and your understanding of the subject matter is very weak.


Scott Why are you so d*mn multi-dimensional.  You're a freak of nature.  LOL

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Southtxponygirl
Reg. Nov 2006
Posted 2020-04-21 3:35 PM
Subject: RE: Fear and Covid19



A Somebody to Everybody


Posts: 41354
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Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas

Palopony - 2020-04-20 9:26 AM



Frodo - 2020-04-20 9:06 AM


I watched a press conference with President Trump yesterday and it's disgusting how badly the liberal reporters talk to this man.  They blame him for the death and disease while never mentioning China as possibly being the culprit.  I'll say one thing......Trump has learned to handle them like a pro and takes no guff from these weasels. 



I watch his press conferences everyday sometimes for over 2 hours.  If he would actually tell you anything in his press conferences the reporters wouldn't have to ask so many questions.  They are nothing but a rally because he can't stand actually having to work, and misses his base.  I think it's awful the way he talks to reporters calling most of them nasty when they ask a question.  Imagine if any other president would have done that?  


Spends most of his time patting himself on the back telling us all what a great job he is doing.  I said I would just wait and see and it's been a month.  Now we have gone from "It's a hoax to liberatng states"......  yes he is doing a fine job.


He says.........Everyone can get a test............  Everyone has PPE........  I just don't find that to be true do you?


I make my husband watch everyday because like the rest of the country he would like to go back to work. It's like making a kid do homework and he hates it.  However I do believe he should know who is making that call and what information he is giving.  I think he considers a lot of people expendables as long as it benefits him.


Chandler's Mom.....  I think JD/EZ was refering to how his govenor is handling the virus in his state not what Hillary or Biden would have done.  He is refering to KY govenor Any Beshear who barely won over Matt Bevin (big Trump supporter and kind of a crook) he seems to be doing a great job in KY. even with Mitch McConnell in the state.  Gives daily informative press conferences and most of the people (and he barely won) love him.


I challenge all Trump supporters to watch his press conferences everyday and read his twitter feed.  I shake my head and think grandpa is off his meds over many things he says.  Have a great day and stay safe, so thankful for sunshine and a pretty day.


So very sorry Mighty Broke, it has happened to people I know too.


Why would you MAKE your husband watch everyday, watching these press conferences everyday for 2 hours is not healthy for any soul. And I just dont have the time, well really the want too to sit in front a TV all day watching press conferences I have way to much to do around here to be sitting in front of a TV. And I AM a TRUMP supporter and always will be, so thank you but no thank you to the challenge of sitting in front of a TV... 

TRUMP 2020

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Southtxponygirl
Reg. Nov 2006
Posted 2020-04-21 3:50 PM
Subject: RE: Fear and Covid19



A Somebody to Everybody


Posts: 41354
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Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas

Palopony - 2020-04-21 2:21 PM


Mighty Broke - 2020-04-21 11:54 AM


Palopony - 2020-04-21 11:13 AM


No reason for me to be scared I was just trying to explain what I thought he was saying.  I guess I was wrong, I don't have a problem with it at all.


I could explain a million things that could have been done different, starting with just what he did and said in February after the WHO notified them China had a problem but honestly.  What difference does it make now?  Ordering PPE and the very best vents & tests then IMO would have been useful instead of sending PPE to China.  I have seen the 69 page document they gave him on pandemics when he was sworn in, he could have paid attention to that.  I don't need to look up pandemic team members for you, some are all over mainstream media.  


Why don't you show me who team Trump had on this before he made one the end of January?  Do you think one was not needed before we had a problem?


I think the fact that he had a 2 hour press conference and didn't even mention blocking people from coming to the US was weird.  Don't say anything when on TV but go back and tweet it.  Just seems strange to me and I think it's a good idea just a weird way to do it.  IMO could have been done a long time ago, who would want to vacation here now?  But hey we are number 1 so I guess we are finally winning.


I have no answers just think it's a worthy topic to discuss, it sure is scary to watch and very sad for our country.


Let me ask you some questions.


Do you think the country should go back to work without more testing and PPE?


Would you go in for elective surgery right now?


Do you think telling people to stay home and then have them protest is a good idea?


Would you be happy to have your loved ones working with infected people for minium wage?


I agree some stipulations are crazy but I see a lot of crazy people out there lacking common sense.  


I can't wait for you to show me who has been watching out for pandemics for the last 3 years?  I think most of the agencies you will say he cut funding for, keep that in mind.



You do realize that Bear is a surgeon and had had to deal with a lot of this directly---correct ?????? 



I do know he is a doctor.  Which I find amazing that he spends so much time posting political stuff instead of medical stuff.  I believe if he spent as much time on virus research he could find a cure.


I personally don't care if people go back to work or not I am forever thankful I don't have to.  I can watch results and decide for myself just like anyone else.  Just wondering how others felt about it, I see you all think he's doing a wonderful job and are happy campers.  


 


 


And now heres another statement that really bothers me, you saying {I personally dont care if people go back to work or not} since you dont have to work, why would you say something like that?!! People are losing homes, their business,their sanity over the fear of not being able to take care of their familys. That right there just reminded me of Hillary Clinton and how she didnt give a rats a** about the people that were killed in Benghazi and their familys..I just dont understand how people think this way of their fellow humans.. Just so sad.. 

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Bear
Reg. Dec 2007
Posted 2020-04-21 4:01 PM
Subject: RE: Fear and Covid19



BHW Resident Surgeon


Posts: 25351
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Palopony - 2020-04-21 2:48 PM


I said that because You or Bear suggested I would be against anyone going back to work.


Most of my family members are still working, their bosses who sit in offices all day think it is fine for them to work around the public.


I do know people out of work and I'm sorry for them, another reason I have always preached to not live above your means and save for a rainy day.  I want the people who do have to work to have protection and a safe place to work.  Healthcare affordable for all, I didn't say free, seems it breaks a few people too and has for years.  Get mad and see red all you want some of you make me see red everyday.


Oh so we're giving financial advice to the lowly commoners now.  
"Save for a rainy day".....check.  

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Chandler's Mom
Reg. Jan 2015
Posted 2020-04-21 7:49 PM
Subject: RE: Fear and Covid19



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Posts: 9159
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Palopony - 2020-04-21 2:48 PM


I said that because You or Bear suggested I would be against anyone going back to work.


Most of my family members are still working, their bosses who sit in offices all day think it is fine for them to work around the public.


I do know people out of work and I'm sorry for them, another reason I have always preached to not live above your means and save for a rainy day.  I want the people who do have to work to have protection and a safe place to work.  Healthcare affordable for all, I didn't say free, seems it breaks a few people too and has for years.  Get mad and see red all you want some of you make me see red everyday.


I'm amazed at your statement about not caring if people work or not.  Working people make our country run on a daily basis.   And I know young couples that haven't had time to save for a rainy day and ARE NOT living above their means that are in DIRE straits.  Young children that need food and clothes and rent payments that need to be made on BUSINESS locations but there is NO.MONEY.COMING.IN.   They want to work but can't.  Don't have the privilege of "being happy" they don't have to work.  My very close friend's husband is working full time for a farmer and also building furniture on the side (before this all hit), but she is a barber and is shut down.   Cried because she couldn't pay rent on her shop the first day of April.   Know what they did when they got the stimulus check--she took her half and paid her rent for two months and husband is gonna put a roof on his shop so he can work that second furniture job even when it rains.   You know, living above their means.   I'm pretty even keel, but this burned my butt. . . . 

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Bear
Reg. Dec 2007
Posted 2020-04-21 8:17 PM
Subject: RE: Fear and Covid19



BHW Resident Surgeon


Posts: 25351
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Location: Bastrop, Texas

Chandler's Mom - 2020-04-21 7:49 PM


Palopony - 2020-04-21 2:48 PM


I said that because You or Bear suggested I would be against anyone going back to work.


Most of my family members are still working, their bosses who sit in offices all day think it is fine for them to work around the public.


I do know people out of work and I'm sorry for them, another reason I have always preached to not live above your means and save for a rainy day.  I want the people who do have to work to have protection and a safe place to work.  Healthcare affordable for all, I didn't say free, seems it breaks a few people too and has for years.  Get mad and see red all you want some of you make me see red everyday.



I'm amazed at your statement about not caring if people work or not.  Working people make our country run on a daily basis.   And I know young couples that haven't had time to save for a rainy day and ARE NOT living above their means that are in DIRE straits.  Young children that need food and clothes and rent payments that need to be made on BUSINESS locations but there is NO.MONEY.COMING.IN.   They want to work but can't.  Don't have the privilege of "being happy" they don't have to work.  My very close friend's husband is working full time for a farmer and also building furniture on the side (before this all hit), but she is a barber and is shut down.   Cried because she couldn't pay rent on her shop the first day of April.   Know what they did when they got the stimulus check--she took her half and paid her rent for two months and husband is gonna put a roof on his shop so he can work that second furniture job even when it rains.   You know, living above their means.   I'm pretty even keel, but this burned my butt. . . . 


You shouldn't be amazed, Chandler's mom.  Don't be fooled.  Democrats care about one thing, and one thing only - defeating Trump at all costs.  They want the death, misery, and crumbling economy to continue.  People know this, and many are afraid to openly say it.  They love death.....infanticide, euthanasia, population control, and even from a disease, so long as it can be used as a pretense to get their demented, plagiarizing, flip-flopping, pandering, drooling, corrupt white old male basement-ensconced millionaire elected. They thrive on misery.  They love seeing the oil market plummet, so they can advance the notion of their Green New Deal utopia.....except Trump stands in their way.  He needs to be gone.....which is why they, and their liberal media lemmings are so opposed to a transition back to normalcy. They love seeing a recession.....and they celebrate the rising death toll, so they can blame Trump. 
Problem is Trump and his team have done a pretty darn good job.  People know it.  
Stay tuned.....they'll keep trying.

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JcNhEmI
Reg. Apr 2009
Posted 2020-04-22 9:31 AM
Subject: RE: Fear and Covid19



Living within my means


Posts: 5128
500010025
Location: Randolph, Utah

Bear - 2020-04-21 2:00 PM


JcNhEmI - 2020-04-21 1:50 PM


Bear - 2020-04-21 11:42 AM


JcNhEmI - 2020-04-21 11:00 AM


Palopony - 2020-04-21 9:13 AM


No reason for me to be scared I was just trying to explain what I thought he was saying.  I guess I was wrong, I don't have a problem with it at all.


I could explain a million things that could have been done different, starting with just what he did and said in February after the WHO notified them China had a problem but honestly.  What difference does it make now?  Ordering PPE and the very best vents & tests then IMO would have been useful instead of sending PPE to China.  I have seen the 69 page document they gave him on pandemics when he was sworn in, he could have paid attention to that.  I don't need to look up pandemic team members for you, some are all over mainstream media.  


Why don't you show me who team Trump had on this before he made one the end of January?  Do you think one was not needed before we had a problem?


I think the fact that he had a 2 hour press conference and didn't even mention blocking people from coming to the US was weird.  Don't say anything when on TV but go back and tweet it.  Just seems strange to me and I think it's a good idea just a weird way to do it.  IMO could have been done a long time ago, who would want to vacation here now?  But hey we are number 1 so I guess we are finally winning.


I have no answers just think it's a worthy topic to discuss, it sure is scary to watch and very sad for our country.


Let me ask you some questions.


Do you think the country should go back to work without more testing and PPE?


YES! The country MUST get back to work. Eventually we're all going to come in contact with it, if we haven't already. The testing needs to continue but we can't hide forever waiting on more testing.


Would you go in for elective surgery right now?


Yes, if it wasn't something that required an overnight stay. A lot of hospitals are having the furlough employees because the hospitals aren't seeing the patients they were before COVID.


Do you think telling people to stay home and then have them protest is a good idea?


It is up to the Governors of each state to make the stay at home decisions, not President Trump. If we don't get people back to work and able to leave their house, we will continue to see protests. 


Would you be happy to have your loved ones working with infected people for minium wage?


My sister is an RN so she is far from minimum wage, are there health care workers that only make minimum wage? Or are you talking grocery store, gas station and restaurant workers? Again, we'll come in contact with it at some point, if we haven't already.


I agree some stipulations are crazy but I see a lot of crazy people out there lacking common sense.  


I can't wait for you to show me who has been watching out for pandemics for the last 3 years?  I think most of the agencies you will say he cut funding for, keep that in mind.





I was going to reply to her blather, but you did that for me.  Nice job!


She still can't say what Obozo would have done differently, or Biden, for that matter, other than Biden would have had a team in place.


As to that vaunted "Pandemic Response Team" that was relocated to other departments within the government by John Bolton, here's something that I've been wondering about. After the H1N1 influenza outbreak in 2009, a nationwide shortage of masks in the national supply resulted and caused a 2- to 3-year backlog of orders for the N95 masks, the stockpile distributed about three-quarters of its inventory and didn’t build back the supply.  That was in 2009-10.  If that "Pandemic Response Team" was so critical, where the hel! were they?  What's their excuse for not replenishing the 3/4ths of the N-95 masks?  Hmmm?



I debated on responding, took me a while to hit post. . .


She's been asked MULTIPLE times to say what Obozo, and others would of done different, with no answer.


As I've said before, the President is dammed if he does and dammed if he doesn’t. No one has ever dealt with anything like this. There is nothing to compare whether Trump did it right or not. 


and AGAIN, no matter what side we're all on I think we can agree we need to get the country opened back up, ASAP.


Palopony might not agree though. . . 


 


There are some races around her in May planning on running. I'm not very optimistic but I hope I'm wrong and they get to have their races. 


 


Bear can you explain this antibody test. How do they decide who gets an antibody test? Is it something everyone should or will get? I also seen today the FDA approved an at home test?? Did I see that right? 



Sorry I missed your question. I'll try to answer it and keep it simple.  
There are two basic questions we try to address:


1.) Does someone actually have Covid19?  That's where the swabs come into play.  One test requires a deep nasopharyngeal swab.  It actually will detect the presence of the virus.  The biggest problem with that is people gag, cough, and sneeze, so every time a tech obtains the swab they have to change their PPE (gowns, gloves, etc...) after each test.  Those gowns are expensive and still in short supply).  The newer test is just a simple swab on the inside of the nostril.  People can do these at home and bring them in for testing. No PPE is needed for this. The new complete home test kits run around $120, and like everything else that has just been approved, the supply is limited at this point.  It's analogous to the HPT for pregnancy.  They reserve these for healthcare workers and first responders.  I don't know when they'll be available for widespread use.


2.) The next category is the "antibody test". It can also be used to see if you have Covid19 infection and it can be used to determine whether or not you have immunity (from past exposure).  The basic immune antibody response to a viral infection involves IgG and IgM (Ig = "immunoglobulin").  The first antibody that is produced is IgM, which is a large antibody.  It appears between 3-7 days after exposure. It lasts a variable length of time, but is usually gone in 6 months.  IgG appears late, like 3 weeks after exposure.  It lasts a long time, up to a lifetime. If you test positive for anti-Covid19 IgM but negative for IgG, that suggests recent, or active Covid19.  If you test positive for both IgM and IgG for Covid 19, you might be recovering from active infection, or still fighting it...but it's recent in either case.  If you are negative for Covid19 IgM but positive for IgG, that suggests past infection and probable immunity, depending on the "titer" of IgG. Provided the titers are adequate, these are the people from whom "convalescent serum" can be obtained to give to critically ill Covid19 patients.  One donor can treat 3 people.  This is a great test, but production is not real fast.  Donald Trump cannot sh!t these tests, just like he can't sh!t swabs, ventilators, and gowns.  You have to understand that the speed at which this team got these things tested, approved, and produced is record-setting.  Normally, these things would take several months, even years. 


Now here's the problem.  Just because you test negative on one day, doesn't mean you won't be positive a day or more later.  It's like HIV testing where a test may be negative early right after exposure.  Ideally, in a perfect world, you get a negative test when you have mild symptoms, and a repeat negative test two weeks later.  Then you are pretty much cleared.  


Thank you for answering my questions. 

Is this like the flu where it'll be a different strain every time we see a spike, say in the fall or next winter? Or is that something that won't be known until it happens. The news was talking how there will be another spike in the fall. 

 

 

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Frodo
Reg. Jul 2004
Posted 2020-04-22 10:28 AM
Subject: RE: Fear and Covid19


"Heck's Coming With Me"


Posts: 10794
50005000500100100252525
Location: Kansas

I watched sadly this morning the amazingly long food lines in various parts of the country.  No one can say they're just trolling for free food.  Who wants to sit in a car for hours for beans and flour if you have the cash to go to a grocery store.  Trump's ad where they show Nancy Pelosi sitting in front of her $24K chrome freezer full of gourmet ice cream.....then cutting to the nearly empty common refrigerators of laid off Americans is a work of art.  Big mistake Nancy....huge.

 

 

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OregonBR
Reg. Dec 2003
Posted 2020-04-22 11:49 AM
Subject: RE: Fear and Covid19


Military family

Champ


Posts: 19623
50005000500020002000500100
Location: Peg-Leg Julia Grimm

Frodo - 2020-04-22 8:28 AM


I watched sadly this morning the amazingly long food lines in various parts of the country.  No one can say they're just trolling for free food.  Who wants to sit in a car for hours for beans and flour if you have the cash to go to a grocery store.  Trump's ad where they show Nancy Pelosi sitting in front of her $24K chrome freezer full of gourmet ice cream.....then cutting to the nearly empty common refrigerators of laid off Americans is a work of art.  Big mistake Nancy....huge.


 


 


Yuge.  LOL

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vjls
Reg. Mar 2005
Posted 2020-04-22 12:30 PM
Subject: RE: Fear and Covid19


Miracle in the Making


Posts: 4013
20002000

this is just a guys  idea   but itsd a ascarey thought

 

 

https://nypost.com/2020/04/18/how-the-obamas-could-easily-win-8-more-years-in-the-white-house/

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Bear
Reg. Dec 2007
Posted 2020-04-22 12:40 PM
Subject: RE: Fear and Covid19



BHW Resident Surgeon


Posts: 25351
500050005000500050001001001002525
Location: Bastrop, Texas

JcNhEmI - 2020-04-22 9:31 AM


Bear - 2020-04-21 2:00 PM


JcNhEmI - 2020-04-21 1:50 PM


Bear - 2020-04-21 11:42 AM


JcNhEmI - 2020-04-21 11:00 AM


Palopony - 2020-04-21 9:13 AM


No reason for me to be scared I was just trying to explain what I thought he was saying.  I guess I was wrong, I don't have a problem with it at all.


I could explain a million things that could have been done different, starting with just what he did and said in February after the WHO notified them China had a problem but honestly.  What difference does it make now?  Ordering PPE and the very best vents & tests then IMO would have been useful instead of sending PPE to China.  I have seen the 69 page document they gave him on pandemics when he was sworn in, he could have paid attention to that.  I don't need to look up pandemic team members for you, some are all over mainstream media.  


Why don't you show me who team Trump had on this before he made one the end of January?  Do you think one was not needed before we had a problem?


I think the fact that he had a 2 hour press conference and didn't even mention blocking people from coming to the US was weird.  Don't say anything when on TV but go back and tweet it.  Just seems strange to me and I think it's a good idea just a weird way to do it.  IMO could have been done a long time ago, who would want to vacation here now?  But hey we are number 1 so I guess we are finally winning.


I have no answers just think it's a worthy topic to discuss, it sure is scary to watch and very sad for our country.


Let me ask you some questions.


Do you think the country should go back to work without more testing and PPE?


YES! The country MUST get back to work. Eventually we're all going to come in contact with it, if we haven't already. The testing needs to continue but we can't hide forever waiting on more testing.


Would you go in for elective surgery right now?


Yes, if it wasn't something that required an overnight stay. A lot of hospitals are having the furlough employees because the hospitals aren't seeing the patients they were before COVID.


Do you think telling people to stay home and then have them protest is a good idea?


It is up to the Governors of each state to make the stay at home decisions, not President Trump. If we don't get people back to work and able to leave their house, we will continue to see protests. 


Would you be happy to have your loved ones working with infected people for minium wage?


My sister is an RN so she is far from minimum wage, are there health care workers that only make minimum wage? Or are you talking grocery store, gas station and restaurant workers? Again, we'll come in contact with it at some point, if we haven't already.


I agree some stipulations are crazy but I see a lot of crazy people out there lacking common sense.  


I can't wait for you to show me who has been watching out for pandemics for the last 3 years?  I think most of the agencies you will say he cut funding for, keep that in mind.





I was going to reply to her blather, but you did that for me.  Nice job!


She still can't say what Obozo would have done differently, or Biden, for that matter, other than Biden would have had a team in place.


As to that vaunted "Pandemic Response Team" that was relocated to other departments within the government by John Bolton, here's something that I've been wondering about. After the H1N1 influenza outbreak in 2009, a nationwide shortage of masks in the national supply resulted and caused a 2- to 3-year backlog of orders for the N95 masks, the stockpile distributed about three-quarters of its inventory and didn’t build back the supply.  That was in 2009-10.  If that "Pandemic Response Team" was so critical, where the hel! were they?  What's their excuse for not replenishing the 3/4ths of the N-95 masks?  Hmmm?



I debated on responding, took me a while to hit post. . .


She's been asked MULTIPLE times to say what Obozo, and others would of done different, with no answer.


As I've said before, the President is dammed if he does and dammed if he doesn’t. No one has ever dealt with anything like this. There is nothing to compare whether Trump did it right or not. 


and AGAIN, no matter what side we're all on I think we can agree we need to get the country opened back up, ASAP.


Palopony might not agree though. . . 


 


There are some races around her in May planning on running. I'm not very optimistic but I hope I'm wrong and they get to have their races. 


 


Bear can you explain this antibody test. How do they decide who gets an antibody test? Is it something everyone should or will get? I also seen today the FDA approved an at home test?? Did I see that right? 



Sorry I missed your question. I'll try to answer it and keep it simple.  
There are two basic questions we try to address:


1.) Does someone actually have Covid19?  That's where the swabs come into play.  One test requires a deep nasopharyngeal swab.  It actually will detect the presence of the virus.  The biggest problem with that is people gag, cough, and sneeze, so every time a tech obtains the swab they have to change their PPE (gowns, gloves, etc...) after each test.  Those gowns are expensive and still in short supply).  The newer test is just a simple swab on the inside of the nostril.  People can do these at home and bring them in for testing. No PPE is needed for this. The new complete home test kits run around $120, and like everything else that has just been approved, the supply is limited at this point.  It's analogous to the HPT for pregnancy.  They reserve these for healthcare workers and first responders.  I don't know when they'll be available for widespread use.


2.) The next category is the "antibody test". It can also be used to see if you have Covid19 infection and it can be used to determine whether or not you have immunity (from past exposure).  The basic immune antibody response to a viral infection involves IgG and IgM (Ig = "immunoglobulin").  The first antibody that is produced is IgM, which is a large antibody.  It appears between 3-7 days after exposure. It lasts a variable length of time, but is usually gone in 6 months.  IgG appears late, like 3 weeks after exposure.  It lasts a long time, up to a lifetime. If you test positive for anti-Covid19 IgM but negative for IgG, that suggests recent, or active Covid19.  If you test positive for both IgM and IgG for Covid 19, you might be recovering from active infection, or still fighting it...but it's recent in either case.  If you are negative for Covid19 IgM but positive for IgG, that suggests past infection and probable immunity, depending on the "titer" of IgG. Provided the titers are adequate, these are the people from whom "convalescent serum" can be obtained to give to critically ill Covid19 patients.  One donor can treat 3 people.  This is a great test, but production is not real fast.  Donald Trump cannot sh!t these tests, just like he can't sh!t swabs, ventilators, and gowns.  You have to understand that the speed at which this team got these things tested, approved, and produced is record-setting.  Normally, these things would take several months, even years. 


Now here's the problem.  Just because you test negative on one day, doesn't mean you won't be positive a day or more later.  It's like HIV testing where a test may be negative early right after exposure.  Ideally, in a perfect world, you get a negative test when you have mild symptoms, and a repeat negative test two weeks later.  Then you are pretty much cleared.  



Thank you for answering my questions. 


Is this like the flu where it'll be a different strain every time we see a spike, say in the fall or next winter? Or is that something that won't be known until it happens. The news was talking how there will be another spike in the fall. 


 


 


At this point, we haven't identified any mutations, but Coronaviruses are RNA viruses, and RNA viruses are much more prone to mutation, versus DNA viruses.  DNA viruses like adenovirus (one of the common cold viruses), herpesviruses (herpes and shingles), EBV, wart viruses (papilloma virus), and chicken pox virus are fairly stable.  Influenza viruses are RNA viruses that are prone to mutate into different strains.  There are over 200 different strains of influenza virus (both A and B).  That's why flu vaccines can be "hit and miss" from one year to the next.  Each year, virologists try to calculate which strains of influenza are most likely to be the greatest threat.  Some years are better than others, but a rule of thumb is that the flu vaccine effectively immunizes 40-60% of flu vaccine recipients.  That doesn't mean the remainder don't benefit.  Most of the rest have some partial immunity, so any clinical cases of flu tend to be milder and recovery is quicker, compared to non-vaccinated.  A "trivalent" vaccine protects against 2 different subtypes of influenza A, plus Influenza B.  

So....I'm getting to the answer to your question.  Back in 2003, SARS (which is a coronavirus closely related to Covid19) took off in the late winter/early spring.  We started to feverishly work on a vaccine, but it died off completely over the summer and hadn't returned.  We abandoned the very expensive SARS vaccine research and development.  There's a possibility that it will die off over summer or at least calm down significantly, but the feeling now is that it will cycle back over the fall and winter.  I think we will definitely see a significant decline over the summer, but I wouldn't bet against recycling back next fall.  The reason is that this virus is so hardy, and we are learning that it is more prevalent than we expected a couple years ago.  Antibody testing is showing a lot more people were infected with Covid19 than we thought......some estimates now say maybe up to 50 times more.  If that's the case, then we are looking at a mortality risk more in line with flu.  I wouldn't bet all my chips on a vaccine, because, as I was saying, RNA viruses do tend to mutate, and if that happens we may miss the mark.

So, bottom line: A vaccine may or may not be effective, IF one can even be developed, and yes, my best guess is it will re-emerge in the fall-winter.  

These complete corrupt idiots like Zeke Emmanuel (the designer of ObamaCare) who say we have to keep the country shut down until we have a vaccine (for the next 1-2 years) should be ignored.  He's an evil bastard who is an extreme progressive socialist-Marxist.  I swear to God if I ever met him I would beat his ass to a pulp.  He's pure evil.  He doesn't care about anything other than extreme socialist-progressivism.  

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svincent
Reg. Feb 2012
Posted 2020-04-22 2:44 PM
Subject: RE: Fear and Covid19


The Resident Destroyer of Liberal Logic


100050025
Location: PNW

Mighty Broke - 2020-04-20 5:59 AM


I lost an Uncle to it Friday---lose someone close to you and trust me, your whole perspective changes.


I agree - I lost my grandmother (who basically raised me as her own child) to it early last week. I am so sorry to hear of your loss.

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Bear
Reg. Dec 2007
Posted 2020-04-22 3:55 PM
Subject: RE: Fear and Covid19



BHW Resident Surgeon


Posts: 25351
500050005000500050001001001002525
Location: Bastrop, Texas

svincent - 2020-04-22 2:44 PM


Mighty Broke - 2020-04-20 5:59 AM


I lost an Uncle to it Friday---lose someone close to you and trust me, your whole perspective changes.



I agree - I lost my grandmother (who basically raised me as her own child) to it early last week. I am so sorry to hear of your loss.


I'm sorry for your loss.  Yes, it's very real.  
I believe we had to do what we did in mid March.  Had we not done that, I think we could have easily lost 500,000, if not more....maybe a million.  More importantly, several of our major urban areas like NYC would have been overrun, and people would have died, from lack of bed space, or ventilators, or healthcare personnel.  That could have easily led to chaos, collapse, and anarchy.  We'd be in even much worse shape by now.  China will reap the consequences, mark my word.
Given what we knew about this novel coronavirus, Trump's calculation was dead center perfect.  This man is not dumbbell, let me tell you.  If this cycles back next fall, we won't do the same thing.  Lots of things will be different.
Now....things are different.  We have to transition back to as much normalcy as possible.  We have no choice....none.

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