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Holy Fruit Loops!
Posts: 1708
  
Location: Colorado | HotbearLVR - 2013-12-17 11:33 PM Stitch4k9 - 2013-12-17 9:25 PM HotbearLVR - 2013-12-17 8:54 PM It's a pittance. The mere fact that a "correction" has to be made from the purported $6,000 to the "actual" $10,000 speaks for itself. Big whup. Big Whup?? I was corrected and it was $14,000 this year. That money is handed to them just for showing up. Their rooms are paid for, their entries are paid for, horse stalls, etc., etc.. I have yet to see a NFR contestant pay for a meal, a drink. They get a ton of swag from the NFR sponsors and LVE.
The top 10 for Top Gun this year each won well over 100,000. just at the NFR.
The Bareback and Bull riders top money earners BEFORE finals had 200,000. plus.
That does not include sponsorship etc..
I have no problem with price increases and the contestants making money. BUT, lets be realistic they are not homeless either.
karen
I don't care what Bowlers make.
How many PRCA members are there? How many are strictly weekend warriors? How many think they are gonna be Buuull Riders, until they get pitched and a bloody lip the first time? There are a lot of contestants that are perfectly happy in their circuit. There are a whole lot of guys who buy a permit and then find out it isn't all beer and girls.
You want contestants to earn a living wage. Great! Now define Living Wage.
But it needs to happen from the bottom up. Those small town rodeo's with 1000 locals filling the seats are where the new members start. Not at the super bowl of Rodeo.
karen | |
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 Tried and True
Posts: 21185
 
Location: Where I am happiest | Stitch4k9 - 2013-12-18 1:53 AM HotbearLVR - 2013-12-17 11:33 PM Stitch4k9 - 2013-12-17 9:25 PM HotbearLVR - 2013-12-17 8:54 PM It's a pittance. The mere fact that a "correction" has to be made from the purported $6,000 to the "actual" $10,000 speaks for itself. Big whup. Big Whup?? I was corrected and it was $14,000 this year. That money is handed to them just for showing up. Their rooms are paid for, their entries are paid for, horse stalls, etc., etc.. I have yet to see a NFR contestant pay for a meal, a drink. They get a ton of swag from the NFR sponsors and LVE.
The top 10 for Top Gun this year each won well over 100,000. just at the NFR.
The Bareback and Bull riders top money earners BEFORE finals had 200,000. plus.
That does not include sponsorship etc..
I have no problem with price increases and the contestants making money. BUT, lets be realistic they are not homeless either.
karen
How many PRCA members are there? How many are strictly weekend warriors? How many think they are gonna be Buuull Riders, until they get pitched and a bloody lip the first time? There are a lot of contestants that are perfectly happy in their circuit. There are a whole lot of guys who buy a permit and then find out it isn't all beer and girls.
You want contestants to earn a living wage. Great! Now define Living Wage.
But it needs to happen from the bottom up. Those small town rodeo's with 1000 locals filling the seats are where the new members start. Not at the super bowl of Rodeo.
karen
I believe that money is also deducted if they win money. lol. It is not theirs free n clear. It's more of a gaurantee they will win at least that much and is deducted from checks won. It should be a bonus, free and clear. | |
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 BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25351
Location: Bastrop, Texas | Stitch4k9 - 2013-12-18 1:53 AM HotbearLVR - 2013-12-17 11:33 PM Stitch4k9 - 2013-12-17 9:25 PM HotbearLVR - 2013-12-17 8:54 PM It's a pittance. The mere fact that a "correction" has to be made from the purported $6,000 to the "actual" $10,000 speaks for itself. Big whup. Big Whup?? I was corrected and it was $14,000 this year. That money is handed to them just for showing up. Their rooms are paid for, their entries are paid for, horse stalls, etc., etc.. I have yet to see a NFR contestant pay for a meal, a drink. They get a ton of swag from the NFR sponsors and LVE.
The top 10 for Top Gun this year each won well over 100,000. just at the NFR.
The Bareback and Bull riders top money earners BEFORE finals had 200,000. plus.
That does not include sponsorship etc..
I have no problem with price increases and the contestants making money. BUT, lets be realistic they are not homeless either.
karen
How many PRCA members are there? How many are strictly weekend warriors? How many think they are gonna be Buuull Riders, until they get pitched and a bloody lip the first time? There are a lot of contestants that are perfectly happy in their circuit. There are a whole lot of guys who buy a permit and then find out it isn't all beer and girls.
You want contestants to earn a living wage. Great! Now define Living Wage.
But it needs to happen from the bottom up. Those small town rodeo's with 1000 locals filling the seats are where the new members start. Not at the super bowl of Rodeo.
karen
Karen I looked it up. The number I came up with was 9000 members of the PRCA as of 2011, I believe. Obviously, the overwhelming majority of those are as you put it - "weekend warriors". To me, I would say a "living wage" would be earnings that would cover all expenses, plus enough money to live on, at a minimum. For example, if you look at all 3000+ members of the WPRA, the top 15 make it to the NFR. I don't know if this is true or not, but I've heard it said that essentially the top 15 qualifiers who make it to the NFR are close to the break even point by the time they make it to Vegas. Whatever they earn at the NFR is basically is what the vast majority "earns" for the year, after all the expenses are taken into account. If you look at Jane Melby's first trip to the NFR in 2011, she entered ranked 11th in the world, with earnings of $63K. She won 3 rounds on Beauty and placed in a 4th, for a total earnings for the NFR of $60K and a total earnings for the year at $123K, but it was that $60K amount that was her earnings for the year after expenses. She wound up 6th in the world after the NFR. I would say that is a decent living wage, but not all that spectacular in this day and age. That's about what a school teacher earns. It's only a handful at the top that really can live off their earnings. In the world of so-called professional sports, when it comes to earnings/winnings, cowgirls and cowboys are sitting at the bottom.
Really, we are basically saying the same thing. I totally agree that it needs to happen "from the bottom up", but that will only help at the regional level. Nationally, I think there needs to be more exposure on the big stage. I raise the question about the Orlando-Disney-ABC connection. Basically, what's good for one is good for the rest. If Orlando is willing to build an arena specifically because of the NFR's committment there, with a larger arena with more seating, then if that draws more people, that will help with gate receipts at Disney World.
If ABC somehow gets into the act and figures out a way to showcase ot televise the NFR in it's entirety, that will boost earnings, and attract more sponsors. When top rodeo competitors become actual personalities in the arena and out, that will be a move in the right direction. All of this will lead back to those small town rodeos, especially when you can see people like Cody Ohl and Sherry Cervi at a rodeo somewhere not too far away. It's all connected. Ever since ancient Rome, human beings have had an unquenchable thirst for gladiators. It's gone from the Colluseum of Rome to places like Coors Field, Texas stadium, and now either T&M or Orlando.
So now this converstion has gone full cirlcle....and we are looking at a new possible venue like Orlando. I have the opinion that this may be a very fortuitous development and maybe, just maybe this will offer the opportunity for a breakout. | |
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 Dr. Ruth
Posts: 9891
Location: Blissfully happy Giants fan!!! | I guess my hang up with the wage is the fact that they still have to pay for gas, maintenance on rigs, meals for them and their horses, and entries. I bet if you went back and took that $60k that Jane Melby made, looked at the total number of rodeos and added up those costs only, she is breaking even or losing money at best.
Shoot, I know of girls down here that don't rodeo because they can't afford to haul all over the country. The ONLY way girls are doing it is by sponsor money or someone fronting some of those costs.
That's where I have an issue. I agree wtih karen-some of these rodeos need to fork up some more dough. BUT, I also think that the industry needs to come together to get those bigger sponsors coming in. If we want to treat these guys like superstars like we see them in our heads, they need to be compensated. This also goes back to my argument that you cannot compare them to pro sports guys because they aren't. It is two completely different worlds.
BUT, if the rodeo world is going to survive and thrive, then we have to support the contestants more than what is being done right now. | |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | around my area, rodeos plain don't make money...
Hence why they don't pay better. Insurance is sky high. Blaming producers for not paying enough is pretty unrealistic... i know people that stopped having local rodeos because they were losing money at each event. Not saying the PRCA is this way, but our ammy stuff is. If there are no fans, there's no money being made... and then there is no rodeo. | |
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Dr. Ruth
Posts: 9891
Location: Blissfully happy Giants fan!!! | barrelracr131 - 2013-12-18 8:30 AM around my area, rodeos plain don't make money...
Hence why they don't pay better. Insurance is sky high. Blaming producers for not paying enough is pretty unrealistic... i know people that stopped having local rodeos because they were losing money at each event. Not saying the PRCA is this way, but our ammy stuff is. If there are no fans, there's no money being made... and then there is no rodeo.
I am going to speak just on the ammy side. I sit on the rodeo committee for one of the rodeos around my area. What frustrates me about ammy rodeoes is the guys running the rodeos are not putting a whole heck of a lot of time and effort in to making the rodeo worth going to. This is something I have voiced on the rodeo committee I sit on. And I am not just talking about the stock or the announcer.
If you want to draw crowds, it is time to think outside of the box and sometimes you need to spend money to make money. The rodeo I sit on sells out but they have a lot of opportunities to make that place better and do more and they aren't. And it isn't for lack of time. I know now a good part is just laziness and knowing they are selling out because it is a smaller town. It helps I am in Texas.
I don't buy that it is a losing proposition and there is nothing they can do. There is plenty for the most part. Will some smaller rodeos die? Yes, consolidation always happens. But treat it like a business and you can draw crowds and make money. | |
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 Always Off Topic
Posts: 6382
Location: ND | TXBO - 2013-12-17 9:32 PM Stitch4k9 - 2013-12-17 9:25 PM HotbearLVR - 2013-12-17 8:54 PM It's a pittance. The mere fact that a "correction" has to be made from the purported $6,000 to the "actual" $10,000 speaks for itself. Big whup. Big Whup?? I was corrected and it was $14,000 this year. That money is handed to them just for showing up. Their rooms are paid for, their entries are paid for, horse stalls, etc., etc.. I have yet to see a NFR contestant pay for a meal, a drink. They get a ton of swag from the NFR sponsors and LVE.
The top 10 for Top Gun this year each won well over 100,000. just at the NFR.
The Bareback and Bull riders top money earners BEFORE finals had 200,000. plus.
That does not include sponsorship etc..
I have no problem with price increases and the contestants making money. BUT, lets be realistic they are not homeless either.
karen
yep | |
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Always Off Topic
Posts: 6382
Location: ND | HotbearLVR - 2013-12-17 11:33 PM Stitch4k9 - 2013-12-17 9:25 PM HotbearLVR - 2013-12-17 8:54 PM It's a pittance. The mere fact that a "correction" has to be made from the purported $6,000 to the "actual" $10,000 speaks for itself. Big whup. Big Whup?? I was corrected and it was $14,000 this year. That money is handed to them just for showing up. Their rooms are paid for, their entries are paid for, horse stalls, etc., etc.. I have yet to see a NFR contestant pay for a meal, a drink. They get a ton of swag from the NFR sponsors and LVE.
The top 10 for Top Gun this year each won well over 100,000. just at the NFR.
The Bareback and Bull riders top money earners BEFORE finals had 200,000. plus.
That does not include sponsorship etc..
I have no problem with price increases and the contestants making money. BUT, lets be realistic they are not homeless either.
karen
i think you are just way off the path on this....... | |
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Always Off Topic
Posts: 6382
Location: ND | HotbearLVR - 2013-12-18 8:18 AM Stitch4k9 - 2013-12-18 1:53 AM HotbearLVR - 2013-12-17 11:33 PM Stitch4k9 - 2013-12-17 9:25 PM HotbearLVR - 2013-12-17 8:54 PM It's a pittance. The mere fact that a "correction" has to be made from the purported $6,000 to the "actual" $10,000 speaks for itself. Big whup. Big Whup?? I was corrected and it was $14,000 this year. That money is handed to them just for showing up. Their rooms are paid for, their entries are paid for, horse stalls, etc., etc.. I have yet to see a NFR contestant pay for a meal, a drink. They get a ton of swag from the NFR sponsors and LVE.
The top 10 for Top Gun this year each won well over 100,000. just at the NFR.
The Bareback and Bull riders top money earners BEFORE finals had 200,000. plus.
That does not include sponsorship etc..
I have no problem with price increases and the contestants making money. BUT, lets be realistic they are not homeless either.
karen
How many PRCA members are there? How many are strictly weekend warriors? How many think they are gonna be Buuull Riders, until they get pitched and a bloody lip the first time? There are a lot of contestants that are perfectly happy in their circuit. There are a whole lot of guys who buy a permit and then find out it isn't all beer and girls.
You want contestants to earn a living wage. Great! Now define Living Wage.
But it needs to happen from the bottom up. Those small town rodeo's with 1000 locals filling the seats are where the new members start. Not at the super bowl of Rodeo.
karen
Really, we are basically saying the same thing. I totally agree that it needs to happen "from the bottom up", but that will only help at the regional level. Nationally, I think there needs to be more exposure on the big stage. I raise the question about the Orlando-Disney-ABC connection. Basically, what's good for one is good for the rest. If Orlando is willing to build an arena specifically because of the NFR's committment there, with a larger arena with more seating, then if that draws more people, that will help with gate receipts at Disney World.
If ABC somehow gets into the act and figures out a way to showcase ot televise the NFR in it's entirety, that will boost earnings, and attract more sponsors. When top rodeo competitors become actual personalities in the arena and out, that will be a move in the right direction. All of this will lead back to those small town rodeos, especially when you can see people like Cody Ohl and Sherry Cervi at a rodeo somewhere not too far away. It's all connected. Ever since ancient Rome, human beings have had an unquenchable thirst for gladiators. It's gone from the Colluseum of Rome to places like Coors Field, Texas stadium, and now either T&M or Orlando.
So now this converstion has gone full cirlcle....and we are looking at a new possible venue like Orlando. I have the opinion that this may be a very fortuitous development and maybe, just maybe this will offer the opportunity for a breakout.
Dang Scott.....are you sure you're not working for Obama..... | |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 823
Location: East Texas | It could go either way, it could help the sport if the PRCA will play their cards right, or it could basically be the end of the organization. One thing the other sports have embraced is that they are in the entertainment industry. I am not sure the PRCA has figured that out. You have to put on an entertainment event to get the fans.....fans bring sponsors, etc., etc.... | |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25351
Location: Bastrop, Texas | dhdqhllc - 2013-12-18 8:45 AM HotbearLVR - 2013-12-18 8:18 AM Stitch4k9 - 2013-12-18 1:53 AM HotbearLVR - 2013-12-17 11:33 PM Stitch4k9 - 2013-12-17 9:25 PM HotbearLVR - 2013-12-17 8:54 PM It's a pittance. The mere fact that a "correction" has to be made from the purported $6,000 to the "actual" $10,000 speaks for itself. Big whup. Big Whup?? I was corrected and it was $14,000 this year. That money is handed to them just for showing up. Their rooms are paid for, their entries are paid for, horse stalls, etc., etc.. I have yet to see a NFR contestant pay for a meal, a drink. They get a ton of swag from the NFR sponsors and LVE.
The top 10 for Top Gun this year each won well over 100,000. just at the NFR.
The Bareback and Bull riders top money earners BEFORE finals had 200,000. plus.
That does not include sponsorship etc..
I have no problem with price increases and the contestants making money. BUT, lets be realistic they are not homeless either.
karen
How many PRCA members are there? How many are strictly weekend warriors? How many think they are gonna be Buuull Riders, until they get pitched and a bloody lip the first time? There are a lot of contestants that are perfectly happy in their circuit. There are a whole lot of guys who buy a permit and then find out it isn't all beer and girls.
You want contestants to earn a living wage. Great! Now define Living Wage.
But it needs to happen from the bottom up. Those small town rodeo's with 1000 locals filling the seats are where the new members start. Not at the super bowl of Rodeo.
karen
Really, we are basically saying the same thing. I totally agree that it needs to happen "from the bottom up", but that will only help at the regional level. Nationally, I think there needs to be more exposure on the big stage. I raise the question about the Orlando-Disney-ABC connection. Basically, what's good for one is good for the rest. If Orlando is willing to build an arena specifically because of the NFR's committment there, with a larger arena with more seating, then if that draws more people, that will help with gate receipts at Disney World.
If ABC somehow gets into the act and figures out a way to showcase ot televise the NFR in it's entirety, that will boost earnings, and attract more sponsors. When top rodeo competitors become actual personalities in the arena and out, that will be a move in the right direction. All of this will lead back to those small town rodeos, especially when you can see people like Cody Ohl and Sherry Cervi at a rodeo somewhere not too far away. It's all connected. Ever since ancient Rome, human beings have had an unquenchable thirst for gladiators. It's gone from the Colluseum of Rome to places like Coors Field, Texas stadium, and now either T&M or Orlando.
So now this converstion has gone full cirlcle....and we are looking at a new possible venue like Orlando. I have the opinion that this may be a very fortuitous development and maybe, just maybe this will offer the opportunity for a breakout.
Care to elaborate, Dave? Obama? How so?
Let's hear your ideas. I'm not being snarky....seriously. I'm just thinking outloud. I'm working from the premise that the NFR won't be in Vegas, so maybe this will wind up being an opportunity. | |
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 Baby Blue's
Posts: 7304
Location: Texas | Wherever it moves, it needs to get with the folks over the marketing of the Houston rodeo. You talk about bringing in some $$ to the area -- and trust me, the majority of the crowd are straight up city. It's packed EVERY SINGLE perf and we're not talking about 17k seats, either. | |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25351
Location: Bastrop, Texas | sassy&tessa - 2013-12-18 8:26 AM I guess my hang up with the wage is the fact that they still have to pay for gas, maintenance on rigs, meals for them and their horses, and entries. I bet if you went back and took that $60k that Jane Melby made, looked at the total number of rodeos and added up those costs only, she is breaking even or losing money at best.
Shoot, I know of girls down here that don't rodeo because they can't afford to haul all over the country. The ONLY way girls are doing it is by sponsor money or someone fronting some of those costs.
That's where I have an issue. I agree wtih karen-some of these rodeos need to fork up some more dough. BUT, I also think that the industry needs to come together to get those bigger sponsors coming in. If we want to treat these guys like superstars like we see them in our heads, they need to be compensated. This also goes back to my argument that you cannot compare them to pro sports guys because they aren't. It is two completely different worlds.
BUT, if the rodeo world is going to survive and thrive, then we have to support the contestants more than what is being done right now.
Actually I did take that into account. I remember Ryan Melby telling me back in 2011 when Jane was on her way to her first NFR. His comment was roughly $65K barely covered expenses, and thats about what her earnings were leading up to the NFR. She wound up winning about $60K at the NFR....basically her net income for the year after expenses. I bet her expenses were a lot higher than they thought.
I'd have to look it up, but I believe Fallon Taylor hauled to almost twice the number of rodeos than Cervi last year, so her expenses were probably considerably higher. I wouldn't be surprised if she hauled 100,000 miles. That right there would run right around $40K in fuel expenses alone, give or take. | |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25351
Location: Bastrop, Texas | bocephus's mama - 2013-12-18 9:36 AM Wherever it moves, it needs to get with the folks over the marketing of the Houston rodeo. You talk about bringing in some $$ to the area -- and trust me, the majority of the crowd are straight up city. It's packed EVERY SINGLE perf and we're not talking about 17k seats, either.
Good point | |
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 Googly Goo
Posts: 7053
| Pro rodeo is more akin to organized professional gambling than it is organized professional sports. | |
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Tried and True
Posts: 21185
Location: Where I am happiest | Lets also not forget the patch program for contestant's sponsors. It is up to the contestant to make the deal with the sponsors, but I can tell you for a fact the average price per month per patch is $1000 a month. Now times that by x number of patches and it does cover alot of the costs to get down the road. | |
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Tried and True
Posts: 21185
Location: Where I am happiest | TXBO - 2013-12-18 9:48 AM Pro rodeo is more akin to organized professional gambling than it is organized professional sports.
You are right on this in that you gamble every time you enter. I dont care what event you work or if your a timey or a roughy. You can draw a bum calf, miss a loop, get bucked off or hit a barrel. So it is a gamble and you dont get paid unless things fall your way and you place. Rodeo contestants dont have the gauranteed pay check yearly salary like other professional sports like baseball, football, or basketball. | |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25351
Location: Bastrop, Texas | TXBO - 2013-12-18 9:48 AM Pro rodeo is more akin to organized professional gambling than it is organized professional sports.
True, and that probably won't change until the fan base expands a lot and everything else follows. | |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | HotbearLVR - 2013-12-18 9:39 AM
bocephus's mama - 2013-12-18 9:36 AM Wherever it moves, it needs to get with the folks over the marketing of the Houston rodeo. You talk about bringing in some $$ to the area -- and trust me, the majority of the crowd are straight up city. It's packed EVERY SINGLE perf and we're not talking about 17k seats, either.
Good point
Houston is a long way from Chicago | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 673
Location: Where it isn’t cold! | bocephus's mama - 2013-12-18 7:36 AM
Wherever it moves, it needs to get with the folks over the marketing of the Houston rodeo. You talk about bringing in some $$ to the area -- and trust me, the majority of the crowd are straight up city. It's packed EVERY SINGLE perf and we're not talking about 17k seats, either.
I think the big drawing card for Houston is more the singers that perform there than the rodeo. The rodeo is just part of what you get for the ticket price. Having sat in there for many of the rodeo perfs, it doesn't really start to fill up til 30-45 minutes before that nights "star" is scheduled to sing. I might be way off base here, but that appears to be the big draw at Houston. | |
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