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Holy Fruit Loops!
Posts: 1708
  
Location: Colorado | HotbearLVR - 2013-12-18 9:38 AM sassy&tessa - 2013-12-18 8:26 AM I guess my hang up with the wage is the fact that they still have to pay for gas, maintenance on rigs, meals for them and their horses, and entries. I bet if you went back and took that $60k that Jane Melby made, looked at the total number of rodeos and added up those costs only, she is breaking even or losing money at best.
Shoot, I know of girls down here that don't rodeo because they can't afford to haul all over the country. The ONLY way girls are doing it is by sponsor money or someone fronting some of those costs.
That's where I have an issue. I agree wtih karen-some of these rodeos need to fork up some more dough. BUT, I also think that the industry needs to come together to get those bigger sponsors coming in. If we want to treat these guys like superstars like we see them in our heads, they need to be compensated. This also goes back to my argument that you cannot compare them to pro sports guys because they aren't. It is two completely different worlds.
BUT, if the rodeo world is going to survive and thrive, then we have to support the contestants more than what is being done right now. Actually I did take that into account. I remember Ryan Melby telling me back in 2011 when Jane was on her way to her first NFR. His comment was roughly $65K barely covered expenses, and thats about what her earnings were leading up to the NFR. She wound up winning about $60K at the NFR....basically her net income for the year after expenses. I bet her expenses were a lot higher than they thought.
I'd have to look it up, but I believe Fallon Taylor hauled to almost twice the number of rodeos than Cervi last year, so her expenses were probably considerably higher. I wouldn't be surprised if she hauled 100,000 miles. That right there would run right around $40K in fuel expenses alone, give or take.
So I haul to a rodeo 30 miles from home.... $300.00 entry fees. Someone else decdides to haul to that same rodeo from 500 miles away. Who is going smart and who isn't? Should we compensate the person who traveled 500 miles more so they can make a living wage? Now what if I have a traveling partner and for what ever reason the other person does not? Heck I'll pick up a couple of rough stock guys along the way. I'm generous like that.
So what would be a fair payout??
karen | |
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 BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25351
 
Location: Bastrop, Texas | ThreeCorners - 2013-12-18 9:57 AM TXBO - 2013-12-18 9:48 AM Pro rodeo is more akin to organized professional gambling than it is organized professional sports. You are right on this in that you gamble every time you enter. I dont care what event you work or if your a timey or a roughy. You can draw a bum calf, miss a loop, get bucked off or hit a barrel. So it is a gamble and you dont get paid unless things fall your way and you place. Rodeo contestants dont have the gauranteed pay check yearly salary like other professional sports like baseball, football, or basketball.
True, but is it completely unrealistic to hope to see that change?
NASCAR drivers get a base salary that is negotiated, plus endorsements, plus winnings. Is it possible to see the top tier rodeo competitors earning some sort of base salary? I can see all sorts of possibiities where endorsement opportunities really expand. It all really depends on promoting the sport and seeing an explosion in the fan base. If that ever happens, opportunities will open up. Right now the only endorsements are for feeds, supplements, saddles and equipment, for the most part. When rodeo stars reach a sort of celebrity status and begin to more regularly endorse cereal, pizza, after shave, cosmetics, McDonalds, etc.....then that will be huge. | |
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Holy Fruit Loops!
Posts: 1708
Location: Colorado | sassy&tessa - 2013-12-18 8:26 AM I guess my hang up with the wage is the fact that they still have to pay for gas, maintenance on rigs, meals for them and their horses, and entries. I bet if you went back and took that $60k that Jane Melby made, looked at the total number of rodeos and added up those costs only, she is breaking even or losing money at best.
Shoot, I know of girls down here that don't rodeo because they can't afford to haul all over the country. The ONLY way girls are doing it is by sponsor money or someone fronting some of those costs.
That's where I have an issue. I agree wtih karen-some of these rodeos need to fork up some more dough. BUT, I also think that the industry needs to come together to get those bigger sponsors coming in. If we want to treat these guys like superstars like we see them in our heads, they need to be compensated. This also goes back to my argument that you cannot compare them to pro sports guys because they aren't. It is two completely different worlds.
BUT, if the rodeo world is going to survive and thrive, then we have to support the contestants more than what is being done right now.
So the million dollar guestion..... How do those rodeos come up with more money?? How much should the local business owners and towns cough up? How many rodeos do we see go away because of lack of sponsors.
karen | |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25351
Location: Bastrop, Texas | Stitch4k9 - 2013-12-18 10:07 AM HotbearLVR - 2013-12-18 9:38 AM sassy&tessa - 2013-12-18 8:26 AM I guess my hang up with the wage is the fact that they still have to pay for gas, maintenance on rigs, meals for them and their horses, and entries. I bet if you went back and took that $60k that Jane Melby made, looked at the total number of rodeos and added up those costs only, she is breaking even or losing money at best.
Shoot, I know of girls down here that don't rodeo because they can't afford to haul all over the country. The ONLY way girls are doing it is by sponsor money or someone fronting some of those costs.
That's where I have an issue. I agree wtih karen-some of these rodeos need to fork up some more dough. BUT, I also think that the industry needs to come together to get those bigger sponsors coming in. If we want to treat these guys like superstars like we see them in our heads, they need to be compensated. This also goes back to my argument that you cannot compare them to pro sports guys because they aren't. It is two completely different worlds.
BUT, if the rodeo world is going to survive and thrive, then we have to support the contestants more than what is being done right now. Actually I did take that into account. I remember Ryan Melby telling me back in 2011 when Jane was on her way to her first NFR. His comment was roughly $65K barely covered expenses, and thats about what her earnings were leading up to the NFR. She wound up winning about $60K at the NFR....basically her net income for the year after expenses. I bet her expenses were a lot higher than they thought.
I'd have to look it up, but I believe Fallon Taylor hauled to almost twice the number of rodeos than Cervi last year, so her expenses were probably considerably higher. I wouldn't be surprised if she hauled 100,000 miles. That right there would run right around $40K in fuel expenses alone, give or take. So I haul to a rodeo 30 miles from home.... $300.00 entry fees. Someone else decdides to haul to that same rodeo from 500 miles away. Who is going smart and who isn't? Should we compensate the person who traveled 500 miles more so they can make a living wage? Now what if I have a traveling partner and for what ever reason the other person does not? Heck I'll pick up a couple of rough stock guys along the way. I'm generous like that.
So what would be a fair payout??
karen
Good question.....I can't answer that. | |
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  Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | we all make choices as to what we want to do. its a gamble. I support the contestants 100% but to argue the facts of $$ and circumstances to me is silly. our choices.. in any horse disciple its the same.. money from sponsors.. partners.. our money their money.. money we win or lose.. its our choices to pursue the dream. | |
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Tried and True
Posts: 21185
Location: Where I am happiest | Maybe the governing bodies ie: PRCA, in their approvals should charge a $2.00 per admission ticket to be paid to go directly towards the purse so we can get more added money. | |
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 Leggs
Posts: 4680
Location: lexington KY | Bibliafarm - 2013-12-18 11:18 AM we all make choices as to what we want to do. its a gamble. I support the contestants 100% but to argue the facts of $$ and circumstances to me is silly. our choices.. in any horse disciple its the same.. money from sponsors.. partners.. our money their money.. money we win or lose.. its our choices to pursue the dream.
I agree 100%! I think that is what is great about our sport, everyone has a chance to pursue the dream. Not everyone can be the quarterback on a major football team and make millions every year. However if you work hard and push hard and want it bad enough, anyone has the chance to succeed in rodeo. That is what makes this sport absolutely amazing. Personally I would love to see them make more money, that is great! However I never want it to be like other professional sports I love that rodeo still stays true to the American dream. There is absolute room for improvement but sometimes making something all about money doesnt make it better. | |
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 Always Off Topic
Posts: 6382
Location: ND | HotbearLVR - 2013-12-18 9:27 AM dhdqhllc - 2013-12-18 8:45 AM HotbearLVR - 2013-12-18 8:18 AM Stitch4k9 - 2013-12-18 1:53 AM HotbearLVR - 2013-12-17 11:33 PM Stitch4k9 - 2013-12-17 9:25 PM HotbearLVR - 2013-12-17 8:54 PM It's a pittance. The mere fact that a "correction" has to be made from the purported $6,000 to the "actual" $10,000 speaks for itself. Big whup. Big Whup?? I was corrected and it was $14,000 this year. That money is handed to them just for showing up. Their rooms are paid for, their entries are paid for, horse stalls, etc., etc.. I have yet to see a NFR contestant pay for a meal, a drink. They get a ton of swag from the NFR sponsors and LVE.
The top 10 for Top Gun this year each won well over 100,000. just at the NFR.
The Bareback and Bull riders top money earners BEFORE finals had 200,000. plus.
That does not include sponsorship etc..
I have no problem with price increases and the contestants making money. BUT, lets be realistic they are not homeless either.
karen
How many PRCA members are there? How many are strictly weekend warriors? How many think they are gonna be Buuull Riders, until they get pitched and a bloody lip the first time? There are a lot of contestants that are perfectly happy in their circuit. There are a whole lot of guys who buy a permit and then find out it isn't all beer and girls.
You want contestants to earn a living wage. Great! Now define Living Wage.
But it needs to happen from the bottom up. Those small town rodeo's with 1000 locals filling the seats are where the new members start. Not at the super bowl of Rodeo.
karen
Really, we are basically saying the same thing. I totally agree that it needs to happen "from the bottom up", but that will only help at the regional level. Nationally, I think there needs to be more exposure on the big stage. I raise the question about the Orlando-Disney-ABC connection. Basically, what's good for one is good for the rest. If Orlando is willing to build an arena specifically because of the NFR's committment there, with a larger arena with more seating, then if that draws more people, that will help with gate receipts at Disney World.
If ABC somehow gets into the act and figures out a way to showcase ot televise the NFR in it's entirety, that will boost earnings, and attract more sponsors. When top rodeo competitors become actual personalities in the arena and out, that will be a move in the right direction. All of this will lead back to those small town rodeos, especially when you can see people like Cody Ohl and Sherry Cervi at a rodeo somewhere not too far away. It's all connected. Ever since ancient Rome, human beings have had an unquenchable thirst for gladiators. It's gone from the Colluseum of Rome to places like Coors Field, Texas stadium, and now either T&M or Orlando.
So now this converstion has gone full cirlcle....and we are looking at a new possible venue like Orlando. I have the opinion that this may be a very fortuitous development and maybe, just maybe this will offer the opportunity for a breakout.
Let's hear your ideas. I'm not being snarky....seriously. I'm just thinking outloud. I'm working from the premise that the NFR won't be in Vegas, so maybe this will wind up being an opportunity.
LOL....just his whole living wage thing for people that want to make a 'living' playing sports instead of an actual job with benefits........sounds more like an Obama plan for the top rodeo cowboys .......which could really generate a whole new department to deal with it, even a website that is linked to the PRCA website.....of course it may not actually be accessible....and you may not actually get any benefits.......all kidding aside, these professional athletes at the top of the heap are going to get your living wage but what is your entitlement solution for, lets say, the top 50 in each event so that they get the living wage they deserve....????should the PRCA increase members fees and add taxes on fan tickets to provide health benefits to their high risk pool (oh wait, obamacare has already done that so they don't need to worry about that anymore) .....so that just leaves the retirement plan that certain ropers want.......and fine if they can get that stuff but you are talking a financial base that is always going to be way smaller no matter how you try to grow it compared to the things you bring up.....honestly i think this competition between venues might be just the thing pro rodeo needs at this point to give more 'athletes' an opportunity to make money.......
i will be in vegas for whatever they put on in 2015 and not orlando..... | |
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 You just got to get mean and mean it.
Location: Arkansas |  How about just doing away with Rodeo...it's just too expensive, don't make any money. LOL
Is that what your saying with the moaning and groaning about arriving in LV broke? It's always been known that rodeoing was expensive and not a money earner...but additive!
It's always been on my Bucket List to go to Las Vegas and the WNFR...and this year, got to check it off! What a wonderful experience in Sin City, The World finals was just the icing on the cake, cherry on top!
Florida won'thave the same excietment as Las Vegas, no matter how they cut it!
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 Wishing I were a Wildcat
Location: 'Hawk Country | ThreeCorners - 2013-12-18 10:20 AM Maybe the governing bodies ie: PRCA, in their approvals should charge a $2.00 per admission ticket to be paid to go directly towards the purse so we can get more added money.
At rodeos around here, the gate is already helping pay to put the rodeo on. Gate money belongs to the committee, and they use it to to pay for the rodeo, including added money. Sponsor money doesn't cover the cost of the rodeo. That is why several $1000-$1500 added rodeos cost $18-$25 to get in. One rodeo I know gives tickets to every child in the local grade school. | |
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 Baby Blue's
Posts: 7304
Location: Texas | Shorty 2 - 2013-12-18 10:06 AM bocephus's mama - 2013-12-18 7:36 AM Wherever it moves, it needs to get with the folks over the marketing of the Houston rodeo. You talk about bringing in some $$ to the area -- and trust me, the majority of the crowd are straight up city. It's packed EVERY SINGLE perf and we're not talking about 17k seats, either. I think the big drawing card for Houston is more the singers that perform there than the rodeo. The rodeo is just part of what you get for the ticket price. Having sat in there for many of the rodeo perfs, it doesn't really start to fill up til 30-45 minutes before that nights "star" is scheduled to sing. I might be way off base here, but that appears to be the big draw at Houston.
Who cares?
Christmas pales in comparison for the western stores to the rodeo (and that's just one industry). People go out to eat, stay around Reliant, etc, etc. The money it generates for the local economy is insane. That's the point at the end of the day. The return on the investment.
My company gets a box (for a night) each year because it coincides with a big conference and the foreigners EAT IT UP.
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25351
Location: Bastrop, Texas | dhdqhllc - 2013-12-18 10:34 AM HotbearLVR - 2013-12-18 9:27 AM dhdqhllc - 2013-12-18 8:45 AM HotbearLVR - 2013-12-18 8:18 AM Stitch4k9 - 2013-12-18 1:53 AM HotbearLVR - 2013-12-17 11:33 PM Stitch4k9 - 2013-12-17 9:25 PM HotbearLVR - 2013-12-17 8:54 PM It's a pittance. The mere fact that a "correction" has to be made from the purported $6,000 to the "actual" $10,000 speaks for itself. Big whup. Big Whup?? I was corrected and it was $14,000 this year. That money is handed to them just for showing up. Their rooms are paid for, their entries are paid for, horse stalls, etc., etc.. I have yet to see a NFR contestant pay for a meal, a drink. They get a ton of swag from the NFR sponsors and LVE.
The top 10 for Top Gun this year each won well over 100,000. just at the NFR.
The Bareback and Bull riders top money earners BEFORE finals had 200,000. plus.
That does not include sponsorship etc..
I have no problem with price increases and the contestants making money. BUT, lets be realistic they are not homeless either.
karen
How many PRCA members are there? How many are strictly weekend warriors? How many think they are gonna be Buuull Riders, until they get pitched and a bloody lip the first time? There are a lot of contestants that are perfectly happy in their circuit. There are a whole lot of guys who buy a permit and then find out it isn't all beer and girls.
You want contestants to earn a living wage. Great! Now define Living Wage.
But it needs to happen from the bottom up. Those small town rodeo's with 1000 locals filling the seats are where the new members start. Not at the super bowl of Rodeo.
karen
Really, we are basically saying the same thing. I totally agree that it needs to happen "from the bottom up", but that will only help at the regional level. Nationally, I think there needs to be more exposure on the big stage. I raise the question about the Orlando-Disney-ABC connection. Basically, what's good for one is good for the rest. If Orlando is willing to build an arena specifically because of the NFR's committment there, with a larger arena with more seating, then if that draws more people, that will help with gate receipts at Disney World.
If ABC somehow gets into the act and figures out a way to showcase ot televise the NFR in it's entirety, that will boost earnings, and attract more sponsors. When top rodeo competitors become actual personalities in the arena and out, that will be a move in the right direction. All of this will lead back to those small town rodeos, especially when you can see people like Cody Ohl and Sherry Cervi at a rodeo somewhere not too far away. It's all connected. Ever since ancient Rome, human beings have had an unquenchable thirst for gladiators. It's gone from the Colluseum of Rome to places like Coors Field, Texas stadium, and now either T&M or Orlando.
So now this converstion has gone full cirlcle....and we are looking at a new possible venue like Orlando. I have the opinion that this may be a very fortuitous development and maybe, just maybe this will offer the opportunity for a breakout.
Let's hear your ideas. I'm not being snarky....seriously. I'm just thinking outloud. I'm working from the premise that the NFR won't be in Vegas, so maybe this will wind up being an opportunity.
i will be in vegas for whatever they put on in 2015 and not orlando.....
All along what I have been trying to say is based on free market principles. I think there is much more opportunity to see increased popularity and hence increased revenues in the sport. That's all I am getting at. I'm talking more exposure to more people, and everything else that would follow in any market-driven endeavor. The PRCA is supposedly "not-for-profit", but that can be misleading as hell. Nothing about what I am trying to say is based on an entitlement model at all. My mistake was in the use of the term "living wage"......that sounded like an Obama-ism. Today, without family money, etc..., you simply can't "chase the dream" for very long even if you are darned good. I want to see that change and I think it can.
If nothing else, this whole Vegas/Orlando discussion has served to focus on something where improvement is necessary, in my opinion.
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 926
| Wow, 23 pages and I read the whole thing. Quick summary:
*I think the East coast for the NFR is about the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard
*And those of you that compare an 8 second ride or a 14 second run to your 40 hour week as a comparison for money, really? That is such a
naïve statement, those folks going to the finals probably do closer to 140 hour weeks, so divide that by your 40 hour weekly salary and see
what you get.....
*Would love to see it stay in Vegas. For those of you that think there's nothing to do family wise, we usually go on hikes when we're there each
year, there are some absolutely wonderful parks and hiking areas within an hour or so drive that are beautiful. Went to Zion in Utah this year
*Regardless of where we go, I don't think you can beat hotel and food prices in Vegas, not in FL, not in DFW and not in OKC
*My biggest concern is that losing Pro Rodeo as we know it. Makes me sad to think about it, so I hope it can all work for the contestants and
the fans
so, I'll be staying tuned to the board and the news waves over the next months.....hope it's ultimately good news for all | |
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 More bootie than waist!
Posts: 18425
Location: Riding Crackhead. | HotbearLVR - 2013-12-18 10:11 AM ThreeCorners - 2013-12-18 9:57 AM TXBO - 2013-12-18 9:48 AM Pro rodeo is more akin to organized professional gambling than it is organized professional sports. You are right on this in that you gamble every time you enter. I dont care what event you work or if your a timey or a roughy. You can draw a bum calf, miss a loop, get bucked off or hit a barrel. So it is a gamble and you dont get paid unless things fall your way and you place. Rodeo contestants dont have the gauranteed pay check yearly salary like other professional sports like baseball, football, or basketball.
NASCAR drivers get a base salary that is negotiated, plus endorsements, plus winnings. Is it possible to see the top tier rodeo competitors earning some sort of base salary? I can see all sorts of possibiities where endorsement opportunities really expand. It all really depends on promoting the sport and seeing an explosion in the fan base. If that ever happens, opportunities will open up. Right now the only endorsements are for feeds, supplements, saddles and equipment, for the most part. When rodeo stars reach a sort of celebrity status and begin to more regularly endorse cereal, pizza, after shave, cosmetics, McDonalds, etc.....then that will be huge.
In order to get paid like your talking the money would have to come from a governing body who will start dictating where the contestants go, what are you feeding your horses because God forbid did that particular company give enough money to said governing body even though your horse might not do well on it, are they injured so should they ride tonight, what are they wearing (more so than they do now so lets not get started on that) etc etc. I think one of the greatest things about rodeo is you make up your own mind about daily decisions. | |
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 Midget Lover
Location: Kentucky | chicks2 - 2013-12-18 12:15 PM Wow, 23 pages and I read the whole thing. Quick summary: *I think the East coast for the NFR is about the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard *And those of you that compare an 8 second ride or a 14 second run to your 40 hour week as a comparison for money, really? That is such a naïve statement, those folks going to the finals probably do closer to 140 hour weeks, so divide that by your 40 hour weekly salary and see what you get..... *Would love to see it stay in Vegas. For those of you that think there's nothing to do family wise, we usually go on hikes when we're there each year, there are some absolutely wonderful parks and hiking areas within an hour or so drive that are beautiful. Went to Zion in Utah this year *Regardless of where we go, I don't think you can beat hotel and food prices in Vegas, not in FL, not in DFW and not in OKC *My biggest concern is that losing Pro Rodeo as we know it. Makes me sad to think about it, so I hope it can all work for the contestants and the fans so, I'll be staying tuned to the board and the news waves over the next months.....hope it's ultimately good news for all
Why is the east coast "ridiculous"?
As far as food prices being cheap in Vegas.... seriously? | |
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Always Off Topic
Posts: 6382
Location: ND | chicks2 - 2013-12-18 11:15 AM Wow, 23 pages and I read the whole thing. Quick summary: *I think the East coast for the NFR is about the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard *And those of you that compare an 8 second ride or a 14 second run to your 40 hour week as a comparison for money, really? That is such a naïve statement, those folks going to the finals probably do closer to 140 hour weeks, so divide that by your 40 hour weekly salary and see what you get..... *Would love to see it stay in Vegas. For those of you that think there's nothing to do family wise, we usually go on hikes when we're there each year, there are some absolutely wonderful parks and hiking areas within an hour or so drive that are beautiful. Went to Zion in Utah this year *Regardless of where we go, I don't think you can beat hotel and food prices in Vegas, not in FL, not in DFW and not in OKC *My biggest concern is that losing Pro Rodeo as we know it. Makes me sad to think about it, so I hope it can all work for the contestants and the fans so, I'll be staying tuned to the board and the news waves over the next months.....hope it's ultimately good news for all
140 hour work weeks....wow.....that is impressive.... | |
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 I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
Location: In the Hills of Texas | The NFR is our yearly mother and daughter trip and if it moves out of Vegas we won't be going but I'm sure they won't miss us.
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Always Off Topic
Posts: 6382
Location: ND | Nevertooold - 2013-12-18 11:34 AM The NFR is our yearly mother and daughter trip and if it moves out of Vegas we won't be going but I'm sure they won't miss us.
well.....i'm gonna make scott go with me in 2015 to vegas and we will hijack DD and TXBO and make our own hangover movie while we give some management advice....
Edited by dhdqhllc 2013-12-18 11:37 AM
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 The best bad guy on the internet
Posts: 3519
Location: Arizona | dhdqhllc - 2013-12-18 10:23 AM
chicks2 - 2013-12-18 11:15 AM Wow, 23 pages and I read the whole thing. Quick summary: *I think the East coast for the NFR is about the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard *And those of you that compare an 8 second ride or a 14 second run to your 40 hour week as a comparison for money, really? That is such a naïve statement, those folks going to the finals probably do closer to 140 hour weeks, so divide that by your 40 hour weekly salary and see what you get..... *Would love to see it stay in Vegas. For those of you that think there's nothing to do family wise, we usually go on hikes when we're there each year, there are some absolutely wonderful parks and hiking areas within an hour or so drive that are beautiful. Went to Zion in Utah this year *Regardless of where we go, I don't think you can beat hotel and food prices in Vegas, not in FL, not in DFW and not in OKC *My biggest concern is that losing Pro Rodeo as we know it. Makes me sad to think about it, so I hope it can all work for the contestants and the fans so, I'll be staying tuned to the board and the news waves over the next months.....hope it's ultimately good news for all
140 hour work weeks....wow.....that is impressive....
I don't think it's a naïve statement at all....I do 40hrs and earn a pay check...it's their choice on how many hours they put in to get their pay check...... | |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | dhdqhllc - 2013-12-18 11:36 AM Nevertooold - 2013-12-18 11:34 AM The NFR is our yearly mother and daughter trip and if it moves out of Vegas we won't be going but I'm sure they won't miss us.
well.....i'm gonna make scott go with me in 2015 to vegas and we will hijack DD and TXBO and make our own hangover movie while we give some management advice....
I miss DD
I am coming on your trip | |
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