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  More bootie than waist!
Posts: 18425
    
Location: Riding Crackhead. | Runninonthebuck - 2014-05-03 10:46 AM HotbearLVR - 2014-05-03 10:06 AM Runninonthebuck - 2014-05-03 9:54 AM Any horse that does not have the same strain that does not link back to the same strain. I'm not so sure we can say that they are necessarily not linked, can we? There's no doubting that there are a number of commonalities between these cases. Same disease expression/manifestation, same time of year, all with high mortality, same mode of transmission, all are members of the same family of viruses, etc... That, plus the fact that mutations can happen quickly, makes it hard to say they are unrelated.
To me they are all "related"....not the same, but related. I understand that they are all EHV-1. Unfortunately I think you have been right this entire time. Due to the fact that people continued to travel during the initial outbreak and those people are still on the road this weekend, the only way this will die down at this point is for a weather change. But I don't know if that will be enough. Unless they find a way to pinpoint this or stop travel I think there is a huge possibility of this sticking around for a while. I think the possibility of transmission has traveled to far to just shut down travel to a few states. Barrel racing as a whole EVERYWHERE rodeos included would have to come to a stop for at least three weeks. For anyone that doesn't think I feel this is serious my horses were possibly exposed in the beginning of the outbreak and I spent three weeks sticking a thermometer up butts twice a day. I do not mean to offend anyone but were the horses that just showed symptoms suddenly being temped daily after they came home from the bonus race? Was it possible that they were running a fever before the symptoms showed? There are a lot of what it's involved with this in my eyes yet. I analyse everything involved with this and I would like to see the vets find any kind of common denominator. How many horses were at the bonus race that could have possibly been exposed. Why just those two horses? What caused them to contract when the horse next to it did not? I think concentrating on the outbreak horses will help to find something in common and help to put a stop to this since we all know travel as a whole will not stop.
I think it would be very interesting to know if the diagnosed horses were vaccinated and if so when and with what. I know that there is no vaccination for this form of EHV but I was told it does help. I also know of people that vaccinated right before they went to the BRF and traveled anywhere for that matter. Horses normally have reactions of some sort after vaccinations and their immune systems I'm assuming could be down. I did my shots the 3rd week in March. The SD State Vet report says if your horse has had shots 9 days or over 90 days they are at risk when traveling. | |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| CYA Ranch - 2014-05-03 11:00 AM
Runninonthebuck - 2014-05-03 10:46 AM HotbearLVR - 2014-05-03 10:06 AM Runninonthebuck - 2014-05-03 9:54 AM Â Any horse that does not have the same strain that does not link back to the same strain. I'm not so sure we can say that they are necessarily not linked, can we? Â There's no doubting that there are a number of commonalities between these cases. Â Same disease expression/manifestation, same time of year, all with high mortality, same mode of transmission, all are members of the same family of viruses, etc... Â That, plus the fact that mutations can happen quickly, makes it hard to say they are unrelated.
To me they are all "related"....not the same, but related. I understand that they are all EHV-1. Unfortunately I think you have been right this entire time. Due to the fact that people continued to travel during the initial outbreak and those people are still on the road this weekend, the only way this will die down at this point is for a weather change. But I don't know if that will be enough. Unless they find a way to pinpoint this or stop travel I think there is a huge possibility of this sticking around for a while. I think the possibility of transmission has traveled to far to just shut down travel to a few states. Barrel racing as a whole EVERYWHERE rodeos included would have to come to a stop for at least three weeks. For anyone that doesn't think I feel this is serious my horses were possibly exposed in the beginning of the outbreak and I spent three weeks sticking a thermometer up butts twice a day. I do not mean to offend anyone but were the horses that just showed symptoms suddenly being temped daily after they came home from the bonus race? Was it possible that they were running a fever before the symptoms showed? There are a lot of what it's involved with this in my eyes yet. I analyse everything involved with this and I would like to see the vets find any kind of common denominator. How many horses were at the bonus race that could have possibly been exposed. Why just those two horses? What caused them to contract when the horse next to it did not? I think concentrating on the outbreak horses will help to find something in common and help to put a stop to this since we all know travel as a whole will not stop.
They are also saying over vaccinated horses are more susceptible. I would like to know what the definition of over vaccination is | |
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More bootie than waist!
Posts: 18425
Location: Riding Crackhead. | cheryl makofka - 2014-05-03 11:07 AM CYA Ranch - 2014-05-03 11:00 AM Runninonthebuck - 2014-05-03 10:46 AM HotbearLVR - 2014-05-03 10:06 AM Runninonthebuck - 2014-05-03 9:54 AM Any horse that does not have the same strain that does not link back to the same strain. I'm not so sure we can say that they are necessarily not linked, can we? There's no doubting that there are a number of commonalities between these cases. Same disease expression/manifestation, same time of year, all with high mortality, same mode of transmission, all are members of the same family of viruses, etc... That, plus the fact that mutations can happen quickly, makes it hard to say they are unrelated.
To me they are all "related"....not the same, but related. I understand that they are all EHV-1. Unfortunately I think you have been right this entire time. Due to the fact that people continued to travel during the initial outbreak and those people are still on the road this weekend, the only way this will die down at this point is for a weather change. But I don't know if that will be enough. Unless they find a way to pinpoint this or stop travel I think there is a huge possibility of this sticking around for a while. I think the possibility of transmission has traveled to far to just shut down travel to a few states. Barrel racing as a whole EVERYWHERE rodeos included would have to come to a stop for at least three weeks. For anyone that doesn't think I feel this is serious my horses were possibly exposed in the beginning of the outbreak and I spent three weeks sticking a thermometer up butts twice a day. I do not mean to offend anyone but were the horses that just showed symptoms suddenly being temped daily after they came home from the bonus race? Was it possible that they were running a fever before the symptoms showed? There are a lot of what it's involved with this in my eyes yet. I analyse everything involved with this and I would like to see the vets find any kind of common denominator. How many horses were at the bonus race that could have possibly been exposed. Why just those two horses? What caused them to contract when the horse next to it did not? I think concentrating on the outbreak horses will help to find something in common and help to put a stop to this since we all know travel as a whole will not stop. They are also saying over vaccinated horses are more susceptible. I would like to know what the definition of over vaccination is
I hadn't heard that but yes I'd like to know what that is too. In the past I've never given more than my yearly vaccination. Never given a rhino booster. Now I'm being told that every 90 days they need a booster. Maybe its always been that way and I wasn't aware of it. | |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 876
Location: Wisconsin | CYA Ranch - 2014-05-03 11:10 AM cheryl makofka - 2014-05-03 11:07 AM CYA Ranch - 2014-05-03 11:00 AM Runninonthebuck - 2014-05-03 10:46 AM HotbearLVR - 2014-05-03 10:06 AM Runninonthebuck - 2014-05-03 9:54 AM Any horse that does not have the same strain that does not link back to the same strain. I'm not so sure we can say that they are necessarily not linked, can we? There's no doubting that there are a number of commonalities between these cases. Same disease expression/manifestation, same time of year, all with high mortality, same mode of transmission, all are members of the same family of viruses, etc... That, plus the fact that mutations can happen quickly, makes it hard to say they are unrelated.
To me they are all "related"....not the same, but related. I understand that they are all EHV-1. Unfortunately I think you have been right this entire time. Due to the fact that people continued to travel during the initial outbreak and those people are still on the road this weekend, the only way this will die down at this point is for a weather change. But I don't know if that will be enough. Unless they find a way to pinpoint this or stop travel I think there is a huge possibility of this sticking around for a while. I think the possibility of transmission has traveled to far to just shut down travel to a few states. Barrel racing as a whole EVERYWHERE rodeos included would have to come to a stop for at least three weeks. For anyone that doesn't think I feel this is serious my horses were possibly exposed in the beginning of the outbreak and I spent three weeks sticking a thermometer up butts twice a day. I do not mean to offend anyone but were the horses that just showed symptoms suddenly being temped daily after they came home from the bonus race? Was it possible that they were running a fever before the symptoms showed? There are a lot of what it's involved with this in my eyes yet. I analyse everything involved with this and I would like to see the vets find any kind of common denominator. How many horses were at the bonus race that could have possibly been exposed. Why just those two horses? What caused them to contract when the horse next to it did not? I think concentrating on the outbreak horses will help to find something in common and help to put a stop to this since we all know travel as a whole will not stop. They are also saying over vaccinated horses are more susceptible. I would like to know what the definition of over vaccination is
I have been wondering the same thing. You would think that vaccinating would slightly stress the immune system, then add travel and bad weather to that. Is that the recipe for disaster or is it all just a coincidence? | |
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 BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25351
Location: Bastrop, Texas | Runninonthebuck - 2014-05-03 10:46 AM HotbearLVR - 2014-05-03 10:06 AM Runninonthebuck - 2014-05-03 9:54 AM Any horse that does not have the same strain that does not link back to the same strain. I'm not so sure we can say that they are necessarily not linked, can we? There's no doubting that there are a number of commonalities between these cases. Same disease expression/manifestation, same time of year, all with high mortality, same mode of transmission, all are members of the same family of viruses, etc... That, plus the fact that mutations can happen quickly, makes it hard to say they are unrelated.
To me they are all "related"....not the same, but related. I understand that they are all EHV-1. Unfortunately I think you have been right this entire time. Due to the fact that people continued to travel during the initial outbreak and those people are still on the road this weekend, the only way this will die down at this point is for a weather change. But I don't know if that will be enough. Unless they find a way to pinpoint this or stop travel I think there is a huge possibility of this sticking around for a while. I think the possibility of transmission has traveled to far to just shut down travel to a few states. Barrel racing as a whole EVERYWHERE rodeos included would have to come to a stop for at least three weeks. For anyone that doesn't think I feel this is serious my horses were possibly exposed in the beginning of the outbreak and I spent three weeks sticking a thermometer up butts twice a day. I do not mean to offend anyone but were the horses that just showed symptoms suddenly being temped daily after they came home from the bonus race? Was it possible that they were running a fever before the symptoms showed? There are a lot of what it's involved with this in my eyes yet. I analyse everything involved with this and I would like to see the vets find any kind of common denominator. How many horses were at the bonus race that could have possibly been exposed. Why just those two horses? What caused them to contract when the horse next to it did not? I think concentrating on the outbreak horses will help to find something in common and help to put a stop to this since we all know travel as a whole will not stop.
Nobody can answer that question. In human disease, we all have a healthy fear of dreaded HIV and AIDS. People are reluctant to even hug or shake hands with a known AIDS victim. That's because it's so dreaded and deadly, plus the stigma that goes along with it. The truth is that the HIV virus is not highly "contagious". It is said, for example, that the risk of transmission of HIV if you are accidentally stuck with a contaminated needle from an HIV-positive patient is about 0.3%.....three in a thousand. If you have "mucocutaneous" exposure (ie: unprotected sex), that risk is 0.1%.
I think many more horses are actually "exposed" to the virus under these circumstances. It's just that a relative few actually get sick from it, and we don't know why for sure. We don't know what "factors" in a given horse makes them more or less susceptible to the development of actual illness. Everyone makes generalized blanket statements (ie: good nutrition, etc...) but nobody really knows for sure. If a person contracts the HIV virus after a single exposure, is it just bad luck, or were there factors that made that person more susceptible? The trick is to find out commonalities amongst the unfortunates who seroconvert from - to +, and identify which of them is significant.
Maybe it's that some horses have weak "cytokines" which are mediators of inflammation in the immune response. Maybe there's a defect in something like TNF ("tumor necrosis factor"), etc... Maybe ones most susceptable had a previous minor respiratory infection within the past month, and maybe the owner never realized it? Factors in nutrition, the environment, past exposure to other viruses, past immunizations, and inborn factors all need to be considered.
My point is there is much more that we don't know about this illness than we actually know. This is why it's the blind leading the blind, more or less. One thing that is most agreed upon is we probably minimize risk by staying home at least until it warms up and this passes. | |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25351
Location: Bastrop, Texas | Runninonthebuck - 2014-05-03 11:22 AM CYA Ranch - 2014-05-03 11:10 AM cheryl makofka - 2014-05-03 11:07 AM CYA Ranch - 2014-05-03 11:00 AM Runninonthebuck - 2014-05-03 10:46 AM HotbearLVR - 2014-05-03 10:06 AM Runninonthebuck - 2014-05-03 9:54 AM Any horse that does not have the same strain that does not link back to the same strain. I'm not so sure we can say that they are necessarily not linked, can we? There's no doubting that there are a number of commonalities between these cases. Same disease expression/manifestation, same time of year, all with high mortality, same mode of transmission, all are members of the same family of viruses, etc... That, plus the fact that mutations can happen quickly, makes it hard to say they are unrelated.
To me they are all "related"....not the same, but related. I understand that they are all EHV-1. Unfortunately I think you have been right this entire time. Due to the fact that people continued to travel during the initial outbreak and those people are still on the road this weekend, the only way this will die down at this point is for a weather change. But I don't know if that will be enough. Unless they find a way to pinpoint this or stop travel I think there is a huge possibility of this sticking around for a while. I think the possibility of transmission has traveled to far to just shut down travel to a few states. Barrel racing as a whole EVERYWHERE rodeos included would have to come to a stop for at least three weeks. For anyone that doesn't think I feel this is serious my horses were possibly exposed in the beginning of the outbreak and I spent three weeks sticking a thermometer up butts twice a day. I do not mean to offend anyone but were the horses that just showed symptoms suddenly being temped daily after they came home from the bonus race? Was it possible that they were running a fever before the symptoms showed? There are a lot of what it's involved with this in my eyes yet. I analyse everything involved with this and I would like to see the vets find any kind of common denominator. How many horses were at the bonus race that could have possibly been exposed. Why just those two horses? What caused them to contract when the horse next to it did not? I think concentrating on the outbreak horses will help to find something in common and help to put a stop to this since we all know travel as a whole will not stop. They are also saying over vaccinated horses are more susceptible. I would like to know what the definition of over vaccination is
I'm not picking on you, but this is a very common myth and misconception. Some people have this notion in their head that vaccines somehow "weaken" the immune system. It's just the opposite.
Vaccines are designed to "prime" the immune system against a bacterium or virus. A vaccine generally takes about 3 weeks to get everything "primed". That's the typical length of time for the entire immune system to gear up.....ready to quickly identify a specific "antigen" and mount a quicker, more intense, stronger response.
You aren't alone. A lot of people have this notion that vaccines "weaken the immune system". | |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| HotbearLVR - 2014-05-03 11:37 AM
Runninonthebuck - 2014-05-03 11:22 AM CYA Ranch - 2014-05-03 11:10 AM cheryl makofka - 2014-05-03 11:07 AM CYA Ranch - 2014-05-03 11:00 AM Runninonthebuck - 2014-05-03 10:46 AM HotbearLVR - 2014-05-03 10:06 AM Runninonthebuck - 2014-05-03 9:54 AM Â Any horse that does not have the same strain that does not link back to the same strain. I'm not so sure we can say that they are necessarily not linked, can we? Â There's no doubting that there are a number of commonalities between these cases. Â Same disease expression/manifestation, same time of year, all with high mortality, same mode of transmission, all are members of the same family of viruses, etc... Â That, plus the fact that mutations can happen quickly, makes it hard to say they are unrelated.
To me they are all "related"....not the same, but related. I understand that they are all EHV-1. Unfortunately I think you have been right this entire time. Due to the fact that people continued to travel during the initial outbreak and those people are still on the road this weekend, the only way this will die down at this point is for a weather change. But I don't know if that will be enough. Unless they find a way to pinpoint this or stop travel I think there is a huge possibility of this sticking around for a while. I think the possibility of transmission has traveled to far to just shut down travel to a few states. Barrel racing as a whole EVERYWHERE rodeos included would have to come to a stop for at least three weeks. For anyone that doesn't think I feel this is serious my horses were possibly exposed in the beginning of the outbreak and I spent three weeks sticking a thermometer up butts twice a day. I do not mean to offend anyone but were the horses that just showed symptoms suddenly being temped daily after they came home from the bonus race? Was it possible that they were running a fever before the symptoms showed? There are a lot of what it's involved with this in my eyes yet. I analyse everything involved with this and I would like to see the vets find any kind of common denominator. How many horses were at the bonus race that could have possibly been exposed. Why just those two horses? What caused them to contract when the horse next to it did not? I think concentrating on the outbreak horses will help to find something in common and help to put a stop to this since we all know travel as a whole will not stop. They are also saying over vaccinated horses are more susceptible. I would like to know what the definition of over vaccination is
Vaccines are designed to "prime" the immune system against a bacterium or virus. Â A vaccine generally takes about 3 weeks to get everything "primed". Â That's the typical length of time for the entire immune system to gear up.....ready to quickly identify a specific "antigen" and mount a quicker, more intense, stronger response. Â
You aren't alone. Â A lot of people have this notion that vaccines "weaken the immune system". Â
The way my vet described the horses immune system is much more vigilant then a humans.
If someone vaccinates repeatedly to the point of overvaccination (definition I would love to know) the memory cells are on high alert, when the horse breathes in the spore, the memory cells signal the alarm and the white blood cells go on the full attack causing inflammation in the airway, which then causes increased stress of breathing which then leads to a domino effect.
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 876
Location: Wisconsin | HotbearLVR - 2014-05-03 11:37 AM Runninonthebuck - 2014-05-03 11:22 AM CYA Ranch - 2014-05-03 11:10 AM cheryl makofka - 2014-05-03 11:07 AM CYA Ranch - 2014-05-03 11:00 AM Runninonthebuck - 2014-05-03 10:46 AM HotbearLVR - 2014-05-03 10:06 AM Runninonthebuck - 2014-05-03 9:54 AM Any horse that does not have the same strain that does not link back to the same strain. I'm not so sure we can say that they are necessarily not linked, can we? There's no doubting that there are a number of commonalities between these cases. Same disease expression/manifestation, same time of year, all with high mortality, same mode of transmission, all are members of the same family of viruses, etc... That, plus the fact that mutations can happen quickly, makes it hard to say they are unrelated.
To me they are all "related"....not the same, but related. I understand that they are all EHV-1. Unfortunately I think you have been right this entire time. Due to the fact that people continued to travel during the initial outbreak and those people are still on the road this weekend, the only way this will die down at this point is for a weather change. But I don't know if that will be enough. Unless they find a way to pinpoint this or stop travel I think there is a huge possibility of this sticking around for a while. I think the possibility of transmission has traveled to far to just shut down travel to a few states. Barrel racing as a whole EVERYWHERE rodeos included would have to come to a stop for at least three weeks. For anyone that doesn't think I feel this is serious my horses were possibly exposed in the beginning of the outbreak and I spent three weeks sticking a thermometer up butts twice a day. I do not mean to offend anyone but were the horses that just showed symptoms suddenly being temped daily after they came home from the bonus race? Was it possible that they were running a fever before the symptoms showed? There are a lot of what it's involved with this in my eyes yet. I analyse everything involved with this and I would like to see the vets find any kind of common denominator. How many horses were at the bonus race that could have possibly been exposed. Why just those two horses? What caused them to contract when the horse next to it did not? I think concentrating on the outbreak horses will help to find something in common and help to put a stop to this since we all know travel as a whole will not stop. They are also saying over vaccinated horses are more susceptible. I would like to know what the definition of over vaccination is
Vaccines are designed to "prime" the immune system against a bacterium or virus. A vaccine generally takes about 3 weeks to get everything "primed". That's the typical length of time for the entire immune system to gear up.....ready to quickly identify a specific "antigen" and mount a quicker, more intense, stronger response.
You aren't alone. A lot of people have this notion that vaccines "weaken the immune system".
Edited by Runninonthebuck 2014-05-03 11:55 AM
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25351
Location: Bastrop, Texas | Runninonthebuck - 2014-05-03 11:52 AM HotbearLVR - 2014-05-03 11:37 AM Runninonthebuck - 2014-05-03 11:22 AM CYA Ranch - 2014-05-03 11:10 AM cheryl makofka - 2014-05-03 11:07 AM CYA Ranch - 2014-05-03 11:00 AM Runninonthebuck - 2014-05-03 10:46 AM HotbearLVR - 2014-05-03 10:06 AM Runninonthebuck - 2014-05-03 9:54 AM Any horse that does not have the same strain that does not link back to the same strain. I'm not so sure we can say that they are necessarily not linked, can we? There's no doubting that there are a number of commonalities between these cases. Same disease expression/manifestation, same time of year, all with high mortality, same mode of transmission, all are members of the same family of viruses, etc... That, plus the fact that mutations can happen quickly, makes it hard to say they are unrelated.
To me they are all "related"....not the same, but related. I understand that they are all EHV-1. Unfortunately I think you have been right this entire time. Due to the fact that people continued to travel during the initial outbreak and those people are still on the road this weekend, the only way this will die down at this point is for a weather change. But I don't know if that will be enough. Unless they find a way to pinpoint this or stop travel I think there is a huge possibility of this sticking around for a while. I think the possibility of transmission has traveled to far to just shut down travel to a few states. Barrel racing as a whole EVERYWHERE rodeos included would have to come to a stop for at least three weeks. For anyone that doesn't think I feel this is serious my horses were possibly exposed in the beginning of the outbreak and I spent three weeks sticking a thermometer up butts twice a day. I do not mean to offend anyone but were the horses that just showed symptoms suddenly being temped daily after they came home from the bonus race? Was it possible that they were running a fever before the symptoms showed? There are a lot of what it's involved with this in my eyes yet. I analyse everything involved with this and I would like to see the vets find any kind of common denominator. How many horses were at the bonus race that could have possibly been exposed. Why just those two horses? What caused them to contract when the horse next to it did not? I think concentrating on the outbreak horses will help to find something in common and help to put a stop to this since we all know travel as a whole will not stop. They are also saying over vaccinated horses are more susceptible. I would like to know what the definition of over vaccination is
Vaccines are designed to "prime" the immune system against a bacterium or virus. A vaccine generally takes about 3 weeks to get everything "primed". That's the typical length of time for the entire immune system to gear up.....ready to quickly identify a specific "antigen" and mount a quicker, more intense, stronger response.
You aren't alone. A lot of people have this notion that vaccines "weaken the immune system".
I think I can help people understand this better if I explain some facts. I think people feel that exposure to "all those vaccines" is just too much for the body's immune system to handle in such a short timespan. I can understand how people think that way....especially if there are naturipaths, quacks, and snake oil salesmen out there promoting these myths (usually for their own profit).
When a person is exposed to a antigen such as a virus, a bacteria, or a toxin, he develops antibodies that are very specific against that antigen. That person can have billions of different antibodies to antigens, but along comes something new and they get sicker because they don't have those antibodies right away. We are exposed to tens of thousands of different antigens on a daily basis. Throwing in vaccines in no way "weakens us". It's just an insurance policy we take out that makes certain we are naturally immune to specific deadly or harmful infections. If a person is exposed to 15000 antigens in a given day and he is given a vaccine, that makes 15001. We can handle it way more than we realize. We have the ability to generate antibodies to billions of different antigens. Vaccines just insure the important ones are covered. Our bodies react to vaccines the same way we react to antigens we are exposed to in nature. In other words, vaccinations are as natural as anything we do. | |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25351
Location: Bastrop, Texas | cheryl makofka - 2014-05-03 11:46 AM HotbearLVR - 2014-05-03 11:37 AM Runninonthebuck - 2014-05-03 11:22 AM CYA Ranch - 2014-05-03 11:10 AM cheryl makofka - 2014-05-03 11:07 AM CYA Ranch - 2014-05-03 11:00 AM Runninonthebuck - 2014-05-03 10:46 AM HotbearLVR - 2014-05-03 10:06 AM Runninonthebuck - 2014-05-03 9:54 AM Any horse that does not have the same strain that does not link back to the same strain. I'm not so sure we can say that they are necessarily not linked, can we? There's no doubting that there are a number of commonalities between these cases. Same disease expression/manifestation, same time of year, all with high mortality, same mode of transmission, all are members of the same family of viruses, etc... That, plus the fact that mutations can happen quickly, makes it hard to say they are unrelated.
To me they are all "related"....not the same, but related. I understand that they are all EHV-1. Unfortunately I think you have been right this entire time. Due to the fact that people continued to travel during the initial outbreak and those people are still on the road this weekend, the only way this will die down at this point is for a weather change. But I don't know if that will be enough. Unless they find a way to pinpoint this or stop travel I think there is a huge possibility of this sticking around for a while. I think the possibility of transmission has traveled to far to just shut down travel to a few states. Barrel racing as a whole EVERYWHERE rodeos included would have to come to a stop for at least three weeks. For anyone that doesn't think I feel this is serious my horses were possibly exposed in the beginning of the outbreak and I spent three weeks sticking a thermometer up butts twice a day. I do not mean to offend anyone but were the horses that just showed symptoms suddenly being temped daily after they came home from the bonus race? Was it possible that they were running a fever before the symptoms showed? There are a lot of what it's involved with this in my eyes yet. I analyse everything involved with this and I would like to see the vets find any kind of common denominator. How many horses were at the bonus race that could have possibly been exposed. Why just those two horses? What caused them to contract when the horse next to it did not? I think concentrating on the outbreak horses will help to find something in common and help to put a stop to this since we all know travel as a whole will not stop. They are also saying over vaccinated horses are more susceptible. I would like to know what the definition of over vaccination is
Vaccines are designed to "prime" the immune system against a bacterium or virus. A vaccine generally takes about 3 weeks to get everything "primed". That's the typical length of time for the entire immune system to gear up.....ready to quickly identify a specific "antigen" and mount a quicker, more intense, stronger response.
You aren't alone. A lot of people have this notion that vaccines "weaken the immune system". The way my vet described the horses immune system is much more vigilant then a humans. If someone vaccinates repeatedly to the point of overvaccination (definition I would love to know ) the memory cells are on high alert, when the horse breathes in the spore, the memory cells signal the alarm and the white blood cells go on the full attack causing inflammation in the airway, which then causes increased stress of breathing which then leads to a domino effect.
Your vet sort of has the right idea, but he's wrong. Vaccines don't amplify respiratory allergies or reactive airway disease....unless the horse has an allergic reaction to the vaccine itself and shows airway symptoms. Remember, the immune system is very specific. If a horse is prone to reactive airway disease, his response to agents that provoke a response is exaggerated. This is one area where our immune system isn't always perfect. THere are some people who feel that vaccines in asthmatics leads to a surge of asthma attacks, but for the most part that hasn't been shown, with a couple exceptions, one being the live attenuated flu vaccine in kids with asthma. | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 876
Location: Wisconsin | HotbearLVR - 2014-05-03 1:15 PM Runninonthebuck - 2014-05-03 11:52 AM HotbearLVR - 2014-05-03 11:37 AM Runninonthebuck - 2014-05-03 11:22 AM CYA Ranch - 2014-05-03 11:10 AM cheryl makofka - 2014-05-03 11:07 AM CYA Ranch - 2014-05-03 11:00 AM Runninonthebuck - 2014-05-03 10:46 AM HotbearLVR - 2014-05-03 10:06 AM Runninonthebuck - 2014-05-03 9:54 AM Any horse that does not have the same strain that does not link back to the same strain. I'm not so sure we can say that they are necessarily not linked, can we? There's no doubting that there are a number of commonalities between these cases. Same disease expression/manifestation, same time of year, all with high mortality, same mode of transmission, all are members of the same family of viruses, etc... That, plus the fact that mutations can happen quickly, makes it hard to say they are unrelated.
To me they are all "related"....not the same, but related. I understand that they are all EHV-1. Unfortunately I think you have been right this entire time. Due to the fact that people continued to travel during the initial outbreak and those people are still on the road this weekend, the only way this will die down at this point is for a weather change. But I don't know if that will be enough. Unless they find a way to pinpoint this or stop travel I think there is a huge possibility of this sticking around for a while. I think the possibility of transmission has traveled to far to just shut down travel to a few states. Barrel racing as a whole EVERYWHERE rodeos included would have to come to a stop for at least three weeks. For anyone that doesn't think I feel this is serious my horses were possibly exposed in the beginning of the outbreak and I spent three weeks sticking a thermometer up butts twice a day. I do not mean to offend anyone but were the horses that just showed symptoms suddenly being temped daily after they came home from the bonus race? Was it possible that they were running a fever before the symptoms showed? There are a lot of what it's involved with this in my eyes yet. I analyse everything involved with this and I would like to see the vets find any kind of common denominator. How many horses were at the bonus race that could have possibly been exposed. Why just those two horses? What caused them to contract when the horse next to it did not? I think concentrating on the outbreak horses will help to find something in common and help to put a stop to this since we all know travel as a whole will not stop. They are also saying over vaccinated horses are more susceptible. I would like to know what the definition of over vaccination is
Vaccines are designed to "prime" the immune system against a bacterium or virus. A vaccine generally takes about 3 weeks to get everything "primed". That's the typical length of time for the entire immune system to gear up.....ready to quickly identify a specific "antigen" and mount a quicker, more intense, stronger response.
You aren't alone. A lot of people have this notion that vaccines "weaken the immune system".
When a person is exposed to a antigen such as a virus, a bacteria, or a toxin, he develops antibodies that are very specific against that antigen. That person can have billions of different antibodies to antigens, but along comes something new and they get sicker because they don't have those antibodies right away. We are exposed to tens of thousands of different antigens on a daily basis. Throwing in vaccines in no way "weakens us". It's just an insurance policy we take out that makes certain we are naturally immune to specific deadly or harmful infections. If a person is exposed to 15000 antigens in a given day and he is given a vaccine, that makes 15001. We can handle it way more than we realize. We have the ability to generate antibodies to billions of different antigens. Vaccines just insure the important ones are covered. Our bodies react to vaccines the same way we react to antigens we are exposed to in nature. In other words, vaccinations are as natural as anything we do.
Thank you, that was very informative and I appreciate it. | |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| HotbearLVR - 2014-05-03 1:33 PM
cheryl makofka - 2014-05-03 11:46 AM HotbearLVR - 2014-05-03 11:37 AM Runninonthebuck - 2014-05-03 11:22 AM CYA Ranch - 2014-05-03 11:10 AM cheryl makofka - 2014-05-03 11:07 AM CYA Ranch - 2014-05-03 11:00 AM Runninonthebuck - 2014-05-03 10:46 AM HotbearLVR - 2014-05-03 10:06 AM Runninonthebuck - 2014-05-03 9:54 AM Â Any horse that does not have the same strain that does not link back to the same strain. I'm not so sure we can say that they are necessarily not linked, can we? Â There's no doubting that there are a number of commonalities between these cases. Â Same disease expression/manifestation, same time of year, all with high mortality, same mode of transmission, all are members of the same family of viruses, etc... Â That, plus the fact that mutations can happen quickly, makes it hard to say they are unrelated.
To me they are all "related"....not the same, but related. I understand that they are all EHV-1. Unfortunately I think you have been right this entire time. Due to the fact that people continued to travel during the initial outbreak and those people are still on the road this weekend, the only way this will die down at this point is for a weather change. But I don't know if that will be enough. Unless they find a way to pinpoint this or stop travel I think there is a huge possibility of this sticking around for a while. I think the possibility of transmission has traveled to far to just shut down travel to a few states. Barrel racing as a whole EVERYWHERE rodeos included would have to come to a stop for at least three weeks. For anyone that doesn't think I feel this is serious my horses were possibly exposed in the beginning of the outbreak and I spent three weeks sticking a thermometer up butts twice a day. I do not mean to offend anyone but were the horses that just showed symptoms suddenly being temped daily after they came home from the bonus race? Was it possible that they were running a fever before the symptoms showed? There are a lot of what it's involved with this in my eyes yet. I analyse everything involved with this and I would like to see the vets find any kind of common denominator. How many horses were at the bonus race that could have possibly been exposed. Why just those two horses? What caused them to contract when the horse next to it did not? I think concentrating on the outbreak horses will help to find something in common and help to put a stop to this since we all know travel as a whole will not stop. They are also saying over vaccinated horses are more susceptible. I would like to know what the definition of over vaccination is
Vaccines are designed to "prime" the immune system against a bacterium or virus. Â A vaccine generally takes about 3 weeks to get everything "primed". Â That's the typical length of time for the entire immune system to gear up.....ready to quickly identify a specific "antigen" and mount a quicker, more intense, stronger response. Â
You aren't alone. Â A lot of people have this notion that vaccines "weaken the immune system". Â The way my vet described the horses immune system is much more vigilant then a humans. If someone vaccinates repeatedly to the point of overvaccination (definition I would love to know ) the memory cells are on high alert, when the horse breathes in the spore, the memory cells signal the alarm and the white blood cells go on the full attack causing inflammation in the airway, which then causes increased stress of breathing which then leads to a domino effect.
This is the current research results being done in the past few years. Horses are different then humans.
This is why more vets are starting to say the current guidelines are causing overvaccination.
I have valued you opinion in the past, but I will believe the equine vet when it comes to horses.
Edited by cheryl makofka 2014-05-03 1:42 PM
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25351
Location: Bastrop, Texas | I'm sorry, but you are going to have to explain it better than that to convince me that your hypothesis is correct. I'm open to changing my position if I can see some credible proof other than your statement. I want to know how a vaccine accomplishes this. I'd love to see some of that research and clinical data. They used to say that about human reactive airway disease too, but clinical studies haven't born that out, for the most part. As far as over vaccinating, I think there might be some vaccines that don't have to be given as often as they are, like rabies. There's probably a lot of guess work there. | |
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 Ace Ventura Pet Detective
Posts: 2409
Location: Wisconsin | Barrels&Babies - 2014-05-03 9:15 AM CYA Ranch - 2014-05-03 8:16 AM Runninonthebuck - 2014-05-03 6:52 AM SG. - 2014-05-03 6:45 AM Runninonthebuck - 2014-05-03 6:28 AM SG. - 2014-05-02 9:22 PM k.maddocks24 - 2014-05-02 9:16 PM SG. - 2014-05-02 9:05 PM Runninonthebuck - 2014-05-02 4:56 PM From what I am understanding the horses on the east coast have the neurological strain. The horses in the midwest and the Kentucky horse have a non-neorlogical strain. So I ammassuming they are not connected at all and really have no relevence to the midwest. I understand this is serious, but there seems to be A LOT of false information going around. You are wrong it mutates from the non-neurological to the neurological Please don't pass false information and so far unless you can post the link there are no east coast horses are there ? If you go back through this thread, there was a link posted referencing cases in PA & VA. It doesn't sound like they are related to the Midwest outbreak though from what I understand. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong! she said the midwest had the non-neuro. it is the non-neuro that is mutating into neuro and killing horses. There still is Ehv going around, but it is when it mutates to the neuro that is causing the deaths
I pray everyone just stays put. People linking horses together that do not have the same strain. That was the point, linking horses with different strains together. This thing is big enough without people adding in non-related cases. That was the point. Mama came back positive for EHV-1 NON NEUROTROPHIC strain but had the nuero symptoms. We haven't received the papers results from our vet this is just what they told us. I'm gunna see if I can get my hands on the actual fax from Kentucky. Maybe that will help answer some questions. Who knows, but it can't hurt.
One horse that was put down in Minnesota came back negative...with the first test. then the second test, Blood test came back after horse put down was POSITIVE. And anyone who thinks a vet certificate is mistaken. This horse was checked only because they had a horse in her barn that had come up sick. This mare that she had checked (just in case) was pregnant to Confederate Leader. It was tested and temped normal on Thursday and was down on Saturday...So she told me, "can you imagine if i would have gone to a race" How awful, this horse would have exposed many! | |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| HotbearLVR - 2014-05-03 2:15 PM
I'm sorry, but you are going to have to explain it better than that to convince me that your hypothesis is correct. I'm open to changing my position if I can see some credible proof other than your statement. I want to know how a vaccine accomplishes this. I'd love to see some of that research and clinical data. They used to say that about human reactive airway disease too, but clinical studies haven't born that out, for the most part. As far as over vaccinating, I think there might be some vaccines that don't have to be given as often as they are, like rabies. There's probably a lot of guess work there.
Rethinking Equine Vaccinations this is a 2 part series. Dr Jean Dodds DMV published in Interpgrative Veterinary Care Journal.
I don't have access to pub med at home, but since you are a doctor I guess you would, you can gather your own information.
Dr dePaulo has a couple of posts on his own webpage, he explains it good, but I cannot say it is a scholarly article as he doesn't list any references, nor is it peer reviewed.
Edited by cheryl makofka 2014-05-03 6:40 PM
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25351
Location: Bastrop, Texas | cheryl makofka - 2014-05-03 6:28 PM
HotbearLVR - 2014-05-03 2:15 PM
I'm sorry, but you are going to have to explain it better than that to convince me that your hypothesis is correct. I'm open to changing my position if I can see some credible proof other than your statement. I want to know how a vaccine accomplishes this. I'd love to see some of that research and clinical data. They used to say that about human reactive airway disease too, but clinical studies haven't born that out, for the most part. As far as over vaccinating, I think there might be some vaccines that don't have to be given as often as they are, like rabies. There's probably a lot of guess work there.
Rethinking Equine Vaccinations this is a 2 part series. Dr Jean Dodds DMV published in Interpgrative Veterinary Care Journal.
I don't have access to pub med at home, but since you are a doctor I guess you would, you can gather your own information.
Dr dePaulo has a couple of posts on his own webpage, he explains it good, but I cannot say it is a scholarly article as he doesn't list any references, nor is it peer reviewed.
I looked it up. Dr Dodd's article is readily available:
http://www.ivcjournal.com/articles/rethinking-equine-vaccinations-p...
This was published in a journal of "integrative" equine medicine. Integrative refers to a specialty that attempts to blend naturipathic with traditional medicine. I didn't see much to suggest what you are suggesting in either part I or part II. I could have missed something, so if you find it, let me know. I do agree with much of what she was suggesting in that there is weak evidence to support vaccinating as often as some are administered.
There could well be some adverse effects of vaccinating more frequently than is necessary. Just what constitutes "over vaccinating" wasn't well defined.
Here is the excerpt from the article that comes closest to your contention:
"The prevalence and severity of equine influenza has prompted many vets to routinely vaccinate. Show and racehorses are frequently done on the same two- to three-month schedule as EHV. However, in older horses, vaccination has been associated with vasculitis and purpura (bruising), as well as dysbiosis (disruption of normal body functions leading to colic, laminitis and founder) so it’s important to carefully consider the pros and cons of vaccinating an older horse. Heavily vaccinated horses appear more likely to develop a chronic cough after an EIV infection (which can still occur in frequently vaccinated horses)."
That may be true, but it hardly represents compelling evidence. | |
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 Wishing I were a Wildcat
Location: 'Hawk Country | I've been gone all weekend. Sorry if this one has been posted already.
HV-1 confirmed in barrel horse that was at the Clovis, Calif. and Springville, Calif. PRCA rodeos Please be advised that the PRCA has learned from the California Department of Food and Agriculture confirmation of a barrel horse with EHV-1 that competed at the Clovis, Calif. Rodeo then was taken to the Springville, Calif. Rodeo last weekend. See the Update from the Calif. Dept of Food and Ag below. This is for your information so you can take extra precautions. The most common way for this virus to spread is horse to horse contact but it can spread via equipment, facilities or people's hands or clothing. Rodeo Committees with upcoming rodeos should limit contact with timed event horses and bucking horses, limit co-mingling of horses by posting signs on fences asking contestants not to tie their horses and limit nose to nose contact due to the recent disease confirmation, print out the update below and post and have copies available at the secretary’s office and other precautions that you may deem necessary. Additional information to include in a handout to contestants would be:If you had your horse at either the Clovis, Calif. or Springville, Calif. Rodeos, contact your veterinarian for advice, take their horses temperature twice daily and report any temperature over 102 degrees to a veterinarian and to keep those horses away from other horses at events and back at their home stable for a minimum of 14 days but up to 21 days. While this horse has shown a low viral load it is definitely time to put some extra steps into place to protect rodeo livestock by taking extra bio-security precautions for both horse owners and rodeo committees. Here is the link to the California Department of Food and Ag's webpage with updates and resources, please call them with any questions. There is a wonderful biosecurity manual for events on this page that has an abundance of good information. Additionally on this page you will find resources for horse owners. http://www.cdfa.ca.gov/ahfss/animal_health/equine_herpes_virus.htmlMay 1 Update from CDFA: May 1, 2014: No additional cases. The Quarter Horse mare confirmed positive for the non-neuropathogenic strain of EHV-1 is displaying mild neurological signs uncharacteristic of Equine Herpes Myeloencephalopathy (EHM ), specifically vestibular signs, abnormal prehension, and hypermetria of the right front for limb. Additionally, the positive laboratory test results indicated the mare had an extremely low viral load on nasal swab which indicated a low level of viral shedding from this infected horse. Based on the low viral load and atypical clinical signs, it is possible that EHV-1 is not the cause of disease in this horse. Out of an abundance of caution, the horse has been classified as case of EHM by CDFA and remains isolated under quarantine. The epidemiologic investigation reveals this barrel racing mare did participate in the Clovis Rodeo on Friday, April 25, 2014 and immediately following her run was shipped out to the Springville Rodeo where she did not compete. Concerned owners of horses which participated in these events can monitor their horses for clinical signs and take temperatures twice daily. Any temperature over 102F should be reported to a veterinarian for investigation. At this time there is no epidemiologic link to other EHV-1 positive horses recently detected in other states. CDFA continues to monitor the situation. | |
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 Always Off Topic
Posts: 6382
Location: ND | cheryl makofka - 2014-05-03 1:40 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-05-03 1:33 PM cheryl makofka - 2014-05-03 11:46 AM HotbearLVR - 2014-05-03 11:37 AM Runninonthebuck - 2014-05-03 11:22 AM CYA Ranch - 2014-05-03 11:10 AM cheryl makofka - 2014-05-03 11:07 AM CYA Ranch - 2014-05-03 11:00 AM Runninonthebuck - 2014-05-03 10:46 AM HotbearLVR - 2014-05-03 10:06 AM Runninonthebuck - 2014-05-03 9:54 AM Any horse that does not have the same strain that does not link back to the same strain. I'm not so sure we can say that they are necessarily not linked, can we? There's no doubting that there are a number of commonalities between these cases. Same disease expression/manifestation, same time of year, all with high mortality, same mode of transmission, all are members of the same family of viruses, etc... That, plus the fact that mutations can happen quickly, makes it hard to say they are unrelated.
To me they are all "related"....not the same, but related. I understand that they are all EHV-1. Unfortunately I think you have been right this entire time. Due to the fact that people continued to travel during the initial outbreak and those people are still on the road this weekend, the only way this will die down at this point is for a weather change. But I don't know if that will be enough. Unless they find a way to pinpoint this or stop travel I think there is a huge possibility of this sticking around for a while. I think the possibility of transmission has traveled to far to just shut down travel to a few states. Barrel racing as a whole EVERYWHERE rodeos included would have to come to a stop for at least three weeks. For anyone that doesn't think I feel this is serious my horses were possibly exposed in the beginning of the outbreak and I spent three weeks sticking a thermometer up butts twice a day. I do not mean to offend anyone but were the horses that just showed symptoms suddenly being temped daily after they came home from the bonus race? Was it possible that they were running a fever before the symptoms showed? There are a lot of what it's involved with this in my eyes yet. I analyse everything involved with this and I would like to see the vets find any kind of common denominator. How many horses were at the bonus race that could have possibly been exposed. Why just those two horses? What caused them to contract when the horse next to it did not? I think concentrating on the outbreak horses will help to find something in common and help to put a stop to this since we all know travel as a whole will not stop. They are also saying over vaccinated horses are more susceptible. I would like to know what the definition of over vaccination is
Vaccines are designed to "prime" the immune system against a bacterium or virus. A vaccine generally takes about 3 weeks to get everything "primed". That's the typical length of time for the entire immune system to gear up.....ready to quickly identify a specific "antigen" and mount a quicker, more intense, stronger response.
You aren't alone. A lot of people have this notion that vaccines "weaken the immune system". The way my vet described the horses immune system is much more vigilant then a humans. If someone vaccinates repeatedly to the point of overvaccination (definition I would love to know ) the memory cells are on high alert, when the horse breathes in the spore, the memory cells signal the alarm and the white blood cells go on the full attack causing inflammation in the airway, which then causes increased stress of breathing which then leads to a domino effect. This is the current research results being done in the past few years. Horses are different then humans. This is why more vets are starting to say the current guidelines are causing overvaccination. I have valued you opinion in the past, but I will believe the equine vet when it comes to horses.
plenty say what clients want to hear.....and these days, more and more and more clients want to be stroked about anything ''naturopathic' and 'anti-medicine'.......
i'll stick to evaluating real data and listening to those that undeerstand pathophysiology and seem to be honest about it... | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 539
Location: South East Kansas | Can a horse get EHV-1 from the vaccine itself or the booster?
Is that why some don't vaccinate? | |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | cjane - 2014-05-04 8:20 AM Can a horse get EHV-1 from the vaccine itself or the booster? Is that why some don't vaccinate?
No
The modified live virus is given intra-nasally
the killed virus is given IM
there is no scientific data to suggest the vaccine, of either type, has caused the disease in a horse. | |
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