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 Expert
Posts: 4121
 
Location: SE Louisiana | RidenFly - 2014-04-16 4:27 PM Let's not border on hypocritcal garbage here; Prized bull, or something that needs a bag over his head makes no difference, it is a living thing that didn't belong to the Feds. What if Bundy raised beautiful fluffy koala bears? Let's stick to what matters.
You mean one of these??
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 Hawty & Nawty
Posts: 20424
| komet. - 2014-04-17 9:14 PM RidenFly - 2014-04-16 4:27 PM Let's not border on hypocritcal garbage here; Prized bull, or something that needs a bag over his head makes no difference, it is a living thing that didn't belong to the Feds. What if Bundy raised beautiful fluffy koala bears? Let's stick to what matters. You mean one of these??
Good grief, I'm going to have nightmares! Wth happened to him? LOL | |
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Expert
Posts: 4121
Location: SE Louisiana | TXBO - 2014-04-16 2:57 PM My edit button is gone. Did Komet screw that up too.
hmmppffff!!!
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 BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | LMAO.....Clay just posts some clappy hands and someone hits dislike!
That struck me as funny. | |
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Expert
Posts: 4121
Location: SE Louisiana | RidenFly - 2014-04-16 11:17 PM
komet. - 2014-04-17 9:14 PM RidenFly - 2014-04-16 4:27 PM Let's not border on hypocritcal garbage here; Prized bull, or something that needs a bag over his head makes no difference, it is a living thing that didn't belong to the Feds. What if Bundy raised beautiful fluffy koala bears? Let's stick to what matters. You mean one of these??
He got wet AND Photoshopped.... | |
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  Semper Fi
 
Location: North Texas | HotbearLVR - 2014-04-16 11:19 PM
LMAO.....Clay just posts some clappy hands and someone hits dislike!
That struck me as funny.
Obliviously there is a contingent on this forum who seriously do not like me or anything I have to say. Oh well, I hope this contingent never runs into one of them 'First Amendment Zones'....................... | |
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Grammar Expert
| Nevertooold - 2014-04-16 3:24 PM smiley - 2014-04-16 2:22 PM Nevertooold - 2014-04-16 1:01 PM They just showed the destruction the Feds did to fencing, pens etc plus shooting 2 prized bulls.
Then if they were so prized - they shouldn't have been off the 160 acre Bundy ranch, which resides on private property. They charged the agents and were shot. Fencing would be destroyed if it was on federal land that they needed access to. They will probably send Bundy a bill for their work too.
One bull was in an enclosed pen.
I find this one hard to believe. If the bull was on federal land in a pen, then yes, they probably tried to round him out and get him loaded. I think that too many are willing to just take what they hear at face value and drive on.
I wasn't there, but from what I have read the bulls were shot because they charged the agents. Again, if the bulls had been on private property this would not have happened. The agents did not go on private property to get anything, including bulls. | |
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Grammar Expert
| HotbearLVR - 2014-04-16 3:29 PM smiley - 2014-04-16 3:47 PM FinneyQuarterHorses - 2014-04-16 2:01 PM smiley - 2014-04-16 2:22 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-04-16 1:07 PM smiley - 2014-04-16 12:20 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-04-16 9:48 AM equussynergy - 2014-04-16 9:55 AM If you think that this about land, cattle and tortoises. I think you are wrong. I think this is about unelected officials stepping on Americans and American farmers and ranchers. I pray this is a sign of Americans are getting tired of it. In America if you are a small farmer it is illegal for you to produce food and sell it to your neighbors. If you have a milk cow and have extra milk in most places you have to dump it. If you sell it to a neighbor you are breaking the law. If you have extra meat birds or a pig or a steer. You cannot have it butchered and sell it to your neighbors without it being USDA inspected and you have to have a retail food establishment license. The FDA is coming down even harder on small farmers and if you want to grow your business it is becoming hard and harder to make it financially feasible. Even if you jump through regulatory hoops you can still have your farm raided at 3 am by heavily armed men who treat you and your family like they are terrorists and get no reasonable explanation for why. You can be happily raising your livestock and one day the Department of Natural Resources, issues a decree that the animals you are raising are an illegal invasive species and if you don’t kill them all you will be faced with fines reaching nearly a million dollars because your animals have, floppy ears or straight ears, and hundred other traits and some that are “not yet known” to the DNR so they can call all of your animals illegal! The BLM can just decide your cattle are killing turtles, or a plant or whatever and kick you animals off the lease. Or they can decide they want your land for whatever purpose and force you to sell it at what they want to pay, or threaten you with eminent domain.
I think these letter agencies need to answer to the American public. If we have them they need to be elected not appointed. If you are up against these letter agencies how do you get a fair trial? I know plenty of farmers and ranchers have gone broke fighting for what is right. They keep the farmers and ranchers in court for years and use their unlimited funds from the American tax payers to put these farmers and ranchers out of business by bleeding them dry going through the courts. The Bundy affair is just a symptom of a very broken system. Right or wrong it was inspiring to see Americans stand up for something in and age of such apathy. I don’t pretend to know the politics or all the laws or regulations, but I think there must be a better way where the American farmers and ranchers can get fair shake.
Now we're talking. I don't know anything, to speak of, about Mr Bundy and his woes. For all I know this man is a crackpot. I don't know what's fact and what's fiction, but I haven't looked very hard either. Equussynergy hit the nail on the head. I'm not ready to think of this as some cause celebre for conservatism any more than I think of Timothy McVeigh as a poster boy for conservatism or Ted Kozinsky for liberalism. Right now, people are eager to latch on to just about anything because they see tryanny everywhere. "I just want to hit someone" has become their motto. In so doing, many well intended people find themselves supporting a cause that may end up being hypocritical. Then we are no better than people like Finney who are eager to jump on something like this, while ignoring the hypocrisy on their own side.
I think this is a cheap shot too - I'm not sure who Finney is but clearly he or she has garnered some real backlash on this site. I'm not sure if it's warranted, but as for me I think that he/she's been treated pretty poorly on this thread. Again, I haven't been around much, but there are some pretty rude comments to her for a view that many actually share.
That's not a cheap shot. That's what happened. Personally, I didn't mind it at all, because it gave me an opportunity to shoot holes in the progressive-liberal agenda. I will admit, and I have said this several times before, I find it hard to repect the views of someone who has never ever been able to muster the intellectual courage to criticise someone in their own political party or someone who espouses the same political philosophy. She has never criticised anything progressive and has never criticised another Democrat.
Compare that with someone like TxBO who is unafraid to say when he thinks something or someone is wrong, regardless of their underlying political agenda. There are plenty of conservative-minded people on this board who have this kind of intellectual honesty. Finney doesn't. Hi Smiley, I'm just a middle aged woman who raises horses and has ranched her whole life, unlike most of the commentors who wouldn't know the ass end of a cow if it **** on them. I don't live in their echo chamber of fact denial, but rather like to think I'm normal. Ever since I lived in Wyoming for many years, I have found that many ranchers who own federal and state allotments to be ungrateful whiners. When I expressed my liberal opinion that this guy should either pay for his pasture or get off the property, that sent some people into conservative hysteria. I quit commenting on here because I found it addictive and spent way too much time on my laptop, and not enough time working to make a living. These people don't want another opinion, they only want their opinion of revolution and anarchy validated. I can't do that nor do I want to live in that kind of reality. I have no idea how anybody that comments on here all day gets any work done. People believe what they want to believe. I don't try to sling insults because that implies ignorance nor do I hide behind a nickname because that implies cowardice. I was taught better than that. If you look up my nickname on the internet, you'll see who we are, and if you talk to our friends you'll know who we are and what we stand for. Thank you Smiley. Don't let them corrupt you. Your opinion is yours and be proud of it, but if you are scared to claim it, maybe you should rethink your position or get different friends. Lunch break's over.
Thanks for the intro - clearly Hotbear can't stand you but that's okay, sometimes he and I have gone head to head too, but I like him and respect his ability to argue with me. Not many will actually.
And I agree with a lot that you've said on this thread to boot.
Well said, and that's why I remain an independent as well. I know some think of that as fence sitting, but I think of it as being able to think for myself. Sometimes - but not often - I actually agree with people on the left.  | |
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Grammar Expert
| FlyingJT - 2014-04-16 3:36 PM Could Bundy use prescriptive rights to when his argument in court against the BLM?
Actually, I've read in a couple of places where he is trying to do just that. I think he'll lose, but hey, we're only spending BLM money to deal with him anyway (tongue in cheek) | |
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Grammar Expert
| rodeomom13 - 2014-04-16 4:26 PM foundation horse - 2014-04-16 1:40 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-04-16 2:07 PM smiley - 2014-04-16 12:20 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-04-16 9:48 AM equussynergy - 2014-04-16 9:55 AM If you think that this about land, cattle and tortoises. I think you are wrong. I think this is about unelected officials stepping on Americans and American farmers and ranchers. I pray this is a sign of Americans are getting tired of it. In America if you are a small farmer it is illegal for you to produce food and sell it to your neighbors. If you have a milk cow and have extra milk in most places you have to dump it. If you sell it to a neighbor you are breaking the law. If you have extra meat birds or a pig or a steer. You cannot have it butchered and sell it to your neighbors without it being USDA inspected and you have to have a retail food establishment license. The FDA is coming down even harder on small farmers and if you want to grow your business it is becoming hard and harder to make it financially feasible. Even if you jump through regulatory hoops you can still have your farm raided at 3 am by heavily armed men who treat you and your family like they are terrorists and get no reasonable explanation for why. You can be happily raising your livestock and one day the Department of Natural Resources, issues a decree that the animals you are raising are an illegal invasive species and if you don’t kill them all you will be faced with fines reaching nearly a million dollars because your animals have, floppy ears or straight ears, and hundred other traits and some that are “not yet known” to the DNR so they can call all of your animals illegal! The BLM can just decide your cattle are killing turtles, or a plant or whatever and kick you animals off the lease. Or they can decide they want your land for whatever purpose and force you to sell it at what they want to pay, or threaten you with eminent domain.
I think these letter agencies need to answer to the American public. If we have them they need to be elected not appointed. If you are up against these letter agencies how do you get a fair trial? I know plenty of farmers and ranchers have gone broke fighting for what is right. They keep the farmers and ranchers in court for years and use their unlimited funds from the American tax payers to put these farmers and ranchers out of business by bleeding them dry going through the courts. The Bundy affair is just a symptom of a very broken system. Right or wrong it was inspiring to see Americans stand up for something in and age of such apathy. I don’t pretend to know the politics or all the laws or regulations, but I think there must be a better way where the American farmers and ranchers can get fair shake.
Now we're talking. I don't know anything, to speak of, about Mr Bundy and his woes. For all I know this man is a crackpot. I don't know what's fact and what's fiction, but I haven't looked very hard either. Equussynergy hit the nail on the head. I'm not ready to think of this as some cause celebre for conservatism any more than I think of Timothy McVeigh as a poster boy for conservatism or Ted Kozinsky for liberalism. Right now, people are eager to latch on to just about anything because they see tryanny everywhere. "I just want to hit someone" has become their motto. In so doing, many well intended people find themselves supporting a cause that may end up being hypocritical. Then we are no better than people like Finney who are eager to jump on something like this, while ignoring the hypocrisy on their own side.
I think this is a cheap shot too - I'm not sure who Finney is but clearly he or she has garnered some real backlash on this site. I'm not sure if it's warranted, but as for me I think that he/she's been treated pretty poorly on this thread. Again, I haven't been around much, but there are some pretty rude comments to her for a view that many actually share.
That's not a cheap shot. That's what happened. Personally, I didn't mind it at all, because it gave me an opportunity to shoot holes in the progressive-liberal agenda. I will admit, and I have said this several times before, I find it hard to repect the views of someone who has never ever been able to muster the intellectual courage to criticise someone in their own political party or someone who espouses the same political philosophy. She has never criticised anything progressive and has never criticised another Democrat.
Compare that with someone like TxBO who is unafraid to say when he thinks something or someone is wrong, regardless of their underlying political agenda. There are plenty of conservative-minded people on this board who have this kind of intellectual honesty. Finney doesn't. Mrs. Finney's historical M.O. has been to C&P something very incendiary in analogy 'passing wind' in a crowd of people and then running off laughing. And her last post that I quoted was as cherry picked as they come! She was attempting to stir the majority members (women's ) emotions with the idea of morals, chivalry and the implication of cowardice. Notice she would not paste a validated live link to her info? And when said Info was examined and analyzed, said action never actually took place. But VOILA! Mrs. Finney has created that proverbial sh!tstorm she is so historically famous for. Let me put me it this way, should Mrs. Finney have something for sell: I AIN'T buying! I vote with my hard earned dollars and I DO NOT support Progressive/Liberal Politics!
Oh my goodness, I finally watched some Maddow last night and while I don't agree with her condescending (sp) tone, she hit the nail on the head about the Bundy deal. It was embarassing to me as someone who falls on the right 90% of the time.
I doubt I'd watch her again, but she didn't have the horns and forked tongue I was expecting. | |
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 I'm not opinionated
Posts: 4597
Location: Online | foundation horse - 2014-04-16 10:34 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-04-16 11:19 PM LMAO.....Clay just posts some clappy hands and someone hits dislike!
That struck me as funny. Obliviously there is a contingent on this forum who seriously do not like me or anything I have to say. Oh well, I hope this contingent never runs into one of them 'First Amendment Zones'.......................
Yet no one comes to your defense, claiming that maybe you are just misunderstood. 
(lets see how many dislikes I get for this.)
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I'm not opinionated
Posts: 4597
Location: Online | smiley - 2014-04-17 7:19 AM rodeomom13 - 2014-04-16 4:26 PM foundation horse - 2014-04-16 1:40 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-04-16 2:07 PM smiley - 2014-04-16 12:20 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-04-16 9:48 AM equussynergy - 2014-04-16 9:55 AM
Oh my goodness, I finally watched some Maddow last night and while I don't agree with her condescending (sp) tone, she hit the nail on the head about the Bundy deal. It was embarassing to me as someone who falls on the right 90% of the time.
I doubt I'd watch her again, but she didn't have the horns and forked tongue I was expecting.
I watch her if I'm in the mood to be ****ed off and yell at the TV. She is very condescending, and negative, and most of the time only tells part of the story with her own special spin. (Kinda like the mainstream media) | |
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Grammar Expert
| musikmaker - 2014-04-16 6:20 PM foundation horse - 2014-04-16 2:56 PM This LIVE Link is from the Guy who actually walked out front up to the FED's Fence. Also, there is invalidated info floating around that the FEDS were surrounded by 3000 Americans (Patriots/Militia Types ) and something like 500 FEDs. Again, this is unconfirmed to my knowledge. http://www.westernjournalism.com/footage-bundy-massacre/
I went to town today & had some time to mull this over some more...(imagine).
Part of me fumes when I hear people say that the ranchers out here are on 'the government teat'...yet, I can see the point. It's like the reservations...we're the next area to be 'socialized'...and have very little support in fighting it. If we grab our guns we're 'radical', if we do nothing we're cowards. The short answer is to give us our land, then we won't be a 'welfare cause' anymore.
Can that happen? Without a stand?
I don't think so.
Many on here & everywhere, including Cliven Bundy, have been saying that this isn't about cattle, turtles or even solar. This is just the 'tool' to get a fair day in court. It can't happen any other way...and I don't know that it will happen this way...there's not a lot of options, though.
I now know that those of us out west naively thought that we could garner some support from the rest of Americans once they knew what was going on & how wrongly the citizens of the western states have been denied our equal footing...a chance to be economically strong and independent, to own our land.
Now we know that the majority of the Americans we hoped would help have come to rely on the gov't sharing our 'riches' with them & they're not about to free us from gov't bondage.
What was a great day in America has turned into a hard truth the rest of us hoped & prayed wasn't so...our Constitution is no longer the law of the land.
For those who would say, "If you don't like it move"...you're next so what's the point?
I used to think that this Nation was split by the Mississippi...it's moved to the Great Divide & is seeping westward.
Oh well! Spring is here & the lake is calling! Gonna enjoy it while I can cuz there ain't no glueing this world back together Humpty.
Well, this was dramatically written.
But I agreed with some of your points, maybe not the way you think. You already were/are socialized, you basically had a benefit that no one else had and at a fraction of the cost of any other grazing land, access to public land in which your business was more viable than it would have been had you not had access to public land. It's not your land anymore than it's some wacky turtle loving liberals land. It's not their land either, which is why the BLM to my view, was the intermediary who was trying to keep BLM grazing while responding to the NEPA law and the activists. Again, they are danged if they do and danged if they don't.
You are asking, literally for the federal govt. to "give you your land" - but federal land was never yours to begin with. If it reverts back to the States, the sad fact is that these same activists will still be after the land, only now they too can go more locally to fight their battle as well. The sad fact is that the States will likely take the land and sell it to the highest bidder and then you have what you have in Wyoming and Colorado - people like Ted Turner buying up the prized land and raising the taxes of the locals and pushing them out another way. Do you really envision that the States will get the land and be all like "Ohhhhhhhhh, I know a perfect rancher to pay me $1.34 a head per month for this land." I just never see that happening. The BLM loses millions on their grazing permits, States won't settel for that once they get the land, if they get the land.
Who relies on the govt., to "share your riches"? The activists? Free you from govt., bondage?? I'm not sure I was able to keep up with your line of thinking here. Who put you in govt., bondage and what is stopping you from freeing yourself?
So, if someone does not support the federal land as a rancher's private reserve, then they are the problem??
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Grammar Expert
| rodeomom13 - 2014-04-17 7:21 AM foundation horse - 2014-04-16 10:34 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-04-16 11:19 PM LMAO.....Clay just posts some clappy hands and someone hits dislike!
That struck me as funny. Obliviously there is a contingent on this forum who seriously do not like me or anything I have to say. Oh well, I hope this contingent never runs into one of them 'First Amendment Zones'.......................
Is this directed at ME?  | |
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 Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | smiley - 2014-04-17 8:15 AM Nevertooold - 2014-04-16 3:24 PM smiley - 2014-04-16 2:22 PM Nevertooold - 2014-04-16 1:01 PM They just showed the destruction the Feds did to fencing, pens etc plus shooting 2 prized bulls.
Then if they were so prized - they shouldn't have been off the 160 acre Bundy ranch, which resides on private property. They charged the agents and were shot. Fencing would be destroyed if it was on federal land that they needed access to. They will probably send Bundy a bill for their work too.
One bull was in an enclosed pen.
I wasn't there, but from what I have read the bulls were shot because they charged the agents. Again, if the bulls had been on private property this would not have happened. The agents did not go on private property to get anything, including bulls.
It can and does happen on private property. Armed govt agents, whether police, ATF, whatever, plus aggressive animal...bang. | |
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Grammar Expert
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OMGoodness, I can't edit my typos. This will drive me insane all day - Settle with an le, not an el.
I feel better now. And if I missed some, don't point them out.  | |
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Grammar Expert
| Three 4 Luck - 2014-04-17 7:36 AM smiley - 2014-04-17 8:15 AM Nevertooold - 2014-04-16 3:24 PM smiley - 2014-04-16 2:22 PM Nevertooold - 2014-04-16 1:01 PM They just showed the destruction the Feds did to fencing, pens etc plus shooting 2 prized bulls.
Then if they were so prized - they shouldn't have been off the 160 acre Bundy ranch, which resides on private property. They charged the agents and were shot. Fencing would be destroyed if it was on federal land that they needed access to. They will probably send Bundy a bill for their work too.
One bull was in an enclosed pen.
I wasn't there, but from what I have read the bulls were shot because they charged the agents. Again, if the bulls had been on private property this would not have happened. The agents did not go on private property to get anything, including bulls.
Oh, of course it can, but that wasn't what we were arguing about. I'm not saying that can't happen, I'm saying if this bull was in an enclosure, then it must have been one on the fed land, as by all reports they never stepped foot on private Bundy land. | |
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 Nicknameless
Posts: 4565
Location: I can see the end of the world from here! | smiley - 2014-04-17 7:31 AM musikmaker - 2014-04-16 6:20 PM foundation horse - 2014-04-16 2:56 PM This LIVE Link is from the Guy who actually walked out front up to the FED's Fence. Also, there is invalidated info floating around that the FEDS were surrounded by 3000 Americans (Patriots/Militia Types ) and something like 500 FEDs. Again, this is unconfirmed to my knowledge. http://www.westernjournalism.com/footage-bundy-massacre/
I went to town today & had some time to mull this over some more...(imagine).
Part of me fumes when I hear people say that the ranchers out here are on 'the government teat'...yet, I can see the point. It's like the reservations...we're the next area to be 'socialized'...and have very little support in fighting it. If we grab our guns we're 'radical', if we do nothing we're cowards. The short answer is to give us our land, then we won't be a 'welfare cause' anymore.
Can that happen? Without a stand?
I don't think so.
Many on here & everywhere, including Cliven Bundy, have been saying that this isn't about cattle, turtles or even solar. This is just the 'tool' to get a fair day in court. It can't happen any other way...and I don't know that it will happen this way...there's not a lot of options, though.
I now know that those of us out west naively thought that we could garner some support from the rest of Americans once they knew what was going on & how wrongly the citizens of the western states have been denied our equal footing...a chance to be economically strong and independent, to own our land.
Now we know that the majority of the Americans we hoped would help have come to rely on the gov't sharing our 'riches' with them & they're not about to free us from gov't bondage.
What was a great day in America has turned into a hard truth the rest of us hoped & prayed wasn't so...our Constitution is no longer the law of the land.
For those who would say, "If you don't like it move"...you're next so what's the point?
I used to think that this Nation was split by the Mississippi...it's moved to the Great Divide & is seeping westward.
Oh well! Spring is here & the lake is calling! Gonna enjoy it while I can cuz there ain't no glueing this world back together Humpty.
But I agreed with some of your points, maybe not the way you think. You already were/are socialized, you basically had a benefit that no one else had and at a fraction of the cost of any other grazing land, access to public land in which your business was more viable than it would have been had you not had access to public land. It's not your land anymore than it's some wacky turtle loving liberals land. It's not their land either, which is why the BLM to my view, was the intermediary who was trying to keep BLM grazing while responding to the NEPA law and the activists. Again, they are danged if they do and danged if they don't.
You are asking, literally for the federal govt. to "give you your land" - but federal land was never yours to begin with. If it reverts back to the States, the sad fact is that these same activists will still be after the land, only now they too can go more locally to fight their battle as well. The sad fact is that the States will likely take the land and sell it to the highest bidder and then you have what you have in Wyoming and Colorado - people like Ted Turner buying up the prized land and raising the taxes of the locals and pushing them out another way. Do you really envision that the States will get the land and be all like "Ohhhhhhhhh, I know a perfect rancher to pay me $1.34 a head per month for this land." I just never see that happening. The BLM loses millions on their grazing permits, States won't settel for that once they get the land, if they get the land.
Who relies on the govt., to "share your riches"? The activists? Free you from govt., bondage?? I'm not sure I was able to keep up with your line of thinking here. Who put you in govt., bondage and what is stopping you from freeing yourself?
So, if someone does not support the federal land as a rancher's private reserve, then they are the problem??
You're not comprehending the fact that the states were supposed to recieve the land, water, minerals...and taxing authority...within their borders! The fed hasn't kept up their end of the bargain...the various 'enabling acts' allowed the states to gain statehood without the land 'until such a time as the land was disposed of' (as in sold, homesteaded etc...). It never happened.
So ranchers, miners, drillers etc...have put this land into production over the years & used their own funds to do so...they've taken risks...it's the American way.
You seem to think it's easy living...that they're getting 'rich' and you resent that. There's nothing wrong with making a living, even a good one, while providing product to a Nation.
In more recent years the fed has been closing the land to 'multiple use'...mostly at the urging of groups like the Sierra Club, Earth First, various 'Friends of_____' & Wilderness Associations. Non-profits with huge bank accounts who employ high wage lobbyists to close down land to the public it supposedly belongs to. In order for them to continue to ask for donations they must have 'emergencies'...they must have more & more land that they can target. They have many friends & appointments within the BLM...as pointed out over & over, the BLM is NOT answerable to the public...it can & should be dismantled.
Anyhow...I see how it is...sadly you do not. I suppose we all have a loyalty to who butters our bread regardless of the right or wrong of it.
And no, we're not 'asking' we'll be demanding & have every right to do so. Furthermore, it's nobody's business outside of the state what we do with the land.
You've twisted the thought process...I mean...a "ranchers private reserve"??? Lol...
One more time...the gov't used to claim 51% (their take as managers) of the land revenue while the states recieved 49%...until last year, the gov't decided (without public knowledge) to up their % to 53...they're broke ya know...because of a little known 'agreement' with the origianl 13 states concerning this revenue, it's split between the remaining states, as in, those are the monies that Congress fights over every year during the budget wars. So there's your 'greed'. The 'carrot on the stick'. And precisely 'who' put the western states in bondage to the eastern states.
Whoever thinks this is ok is the problem.
And it wouldn't take a court to make it right as it's already law...just decency & a desire to fix a major wrong.
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 Own It and Move On
Location: The edge of no where | smiley - 2014-04-17 8:37 AM Three 4 Luck - 2014-04-17 7:36 AM smiley - 2014-04-17 8:15 AM Nevertooold - 2014-04-16 3:24 PM smiley - 2014-04-16 2:22 PM Nevertooold - 2014-04-16 1:01 PM They just showed the destruction the Feds did to fencing, pens etc plus shooting 2 prized bulls.
Then if they were so prized - they shouldn't have been off the 160 acre Bundy ranch, which resides on private property. They charged the agents and were shot. Fencing would be destroyed if it was on federal land that they needed access to. They will probably send Bundy a bill for their work too.
One bull was in an enclosed pen.
I wasn't there, but from what I have read the bulls were shot because they charged the agents. Again, if the bulls had been on private property this would not have happened. The agents did not go on private property to get anything, including bulls.
It was STILL in a PEN.
They took a half assed excuse to shoot them. Given the confrontational nature of the 'roundup', they were looking for any excuse. I've worked lots of cattle, I'm calling bullchit on shooting them being the only way to deal with the situation.
It's not just in NV. I still want to know why the BLM even has a police force? And why, no matter whose, where the cattle are...it's ok to use inhumance tactics like this to gather?
Why was this deemed a crisis that had to be address in this manner now?
Al Sharpton owes the IRS 1.9 million, and gets dinner with Obummer.....This guy 'might' owe a figure far south of 1 million, and we blow 3 million to go after it?
This is from Sid Miller's page...
As you may know, I have taken a strong stance against the abuses and federal overreach of the Obama Administration and by the President’s Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and Bureau of Land Management (BLM) here in Texas. What has taken place in recent days in Nevada is clear and compelling evidence that Barack Obama and his out-of-control thugs will stop at nothing to seize more power and exert their will, regardless whether doing so violates our constitution, impedes state’s rights, or infringes upon the private property and water rights of farmers, ranchers, and individual landowners. I will not stand by and let what happened in Nevada happen in Texas—not on my watch!
Earlier this week, I issued a press release urging Governor Perry to be prepared, if necessary, to mobilize our state’s military and law enforcement resources in order to protect Texas citizens and landowners from proposed actions that would put some 90,000 acres of land along a 116 mile stretch of the Red River at risk of a BLM takeover.
Yesterday, believe it or not, I received a call from a Republican State Legislator asking me to back down from my “aggressive” stance against the federal government and the BLM. He was concerned that our fellow Texans might show up armed on the Red River in order to defend their friends, neighbors and fellow citizens against the BLM and its heavy handed tactics by armed federal agents. This state lawmaker told me that since I issued my press release earlier this week alerting Texans to the very real danger to their private property rights his office has been receiving calls from what he described as “crazy, gun-toting Texans” and that caused him concern. He told me he wanted me to retract my statement and back down on my stance against the BLM. He told me that if didn’t do so he would retract his endorsement of me in my race for Texas Agriculture Commissioner.
If you know anything about Sid Miller, you know that I don’t back down from doing what is right. Gaining an endorsement from a politician is never worth giving up my beliefs, violating the constitution, or putting the individual rights of Texans and their property at risk. I will never back down from an over-reaching federal government no matter what the cost and most especially because I might lose a campaign endorsement.
The only endorsement I truly care about is yours and I pray that you will continue to stand with me and our fellow citizens here in Texas, Nevada, and across the United States who have been abused and victimized by Barack Obama and his out-of-control, overreaching, and over regulating federal agents and bureaucrats.
The stakes have never been higher in the race for Texas Agriculture Commissioner. I want you to know that as your next Ag Commissioner, I will always say what I mean, do what I say, and stand up in defense of our freedoms. You should demand that from all of your elected officials because you deserve no less.
If you agree, please share this with your friends and family. I won’t get the support of the Austin insiders who are afraid to take a stand, which means your vote and support in the May 27th Republican Primary run-off is even more important. I humbly ask for your vote and ask that you keep me in your prayers as I continue this fight.
---Sid Miller
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 926
| musikmaker - 2014-04-17 9:21 AM
smiley - 2014-04-17 7:31 AM musikmaker - 2014-04-16 6:20 PM foundation horse - 2014-04-16 2:56 PM This LIVE Link is from the Guy who actually walked out front up to the FED's Fence. Also, there is invalidated info floating around that the FEDS were surrounded by 3000 Americans (Patriots/Militia Types ) and something like 500 FEDs. Again, this is unconfirmed to my knowledge. http://www.westernjournalism.com/footage-bundy-massacre/
I went to town today & had some time to mull this over some more...(imagine).
Part of me fumes when I hear people say that the ranchers out here are on 'the government teat'...yet, I can see the point. It's like the reservations...we're the next area to be 'socialized'...and have very little support in fighting it. If we grab our guns we're 'radical', if we do nothing we're cowards. The short answer is to give us our land, then we won't be a 'welfare cause' anymore.
Can that happen? Without a stand?
I don't think so.
Many on here & everywhere, including Cliven Bundy, have been saying that this isn't about cattle, turtles or even solar. This is just the 'tool' to get a fair day in court. It can't happen any other way...and I don't know that it will happen this way...there's not a lot of options, though.
I now know that those of us out west naively thought that we could garner some support from the rest of Americans once they knew what was going on & how wrongly the citizens of the western states have been denied our equal footing...a chance to be economically strong and independent, to own our land.
Now we know that the majority of the Americans we hoped would help have come to rely on the gov't sharing our 'riches' with them & they're not about to free us from gov't bondage.
What was a great day in America has turned into a hard truth the rest of us hoped & prayed wasn't so...our Constitution is no longer the law of the land.
For those who would say, "If you don't like it move"...you're next so what's the point?
I used to think that this Nation was split by the Mississippi...it's moved to the Great Divide & is seeping westward.
Oh well! Spring is here & the lake is calling! Gonna enjoy it while I can cuz there ain't no glueing this world back together Humpty.
But I agreed with some of your points, maybe not the way you think. You already were/are socialized, you basically had a benefit that no one else had and at a fraction of the cost of any other grazing land, access to public land in which your business was more viable than it would have been had you not had access to public land. It's not your land anymore than it's some wacky turtle loving liberals land. It's not their land either, which is why the BLM to my view, was the intermediary who was trying to keep BLM grazing while responding to the NEPA law and the activists. Again, they are danged if they do and danged if they don't.
You are asking, literally for the federal govt. to "give you your land" - but federal land was never yours to begin with. If it reverts back to the States, the sad fact is that these same activists will still be after the land, only now they too can go more locally to fight their battle as well. The sad fact is that the States will likely take the land and sell it to the highest bidder and then you have what you have in Wyoming and Colorado - people like Ted Turner buying up the prized land and raising the taxes of the locals and pushing them out another way. Do you really envision that the States will get the land and be all like "Ohhhhhhhhh, I know a perfect rancher to pay me $1.34 a head per month for this land." I just never see that happening. The BLM loses millions on their grazing permits, States won't settel for that once they get the land, if they get the land.
Who relies on the govt., to "share your riches"? The activists? Free you from govt., bondage?? I'm not sure I was able to keep up with your line of thinking here. Who put you in govt., bondage and what is stopping you from freeing yourself?
So, if someone does not support the federal land as a rancher's private reserve, then they are the problem??
So ranchers, miners, drillers etc...have put this land into production over the years & used their own funds to do so...they've taken risks...it's the American way.
You seem to think it's easy living...that they're getting 'rich' and you resent that. There's nothing wrong with making a living, even a good one, while providing product to a Nation.
In more recent years the fed has been closing the land to 'multiple use'...mostly at the urging of groups like the Sierra Club, Earth First, various 'Friends of_____' & Wilderness Associations. Non-profits with huge bank accounts who employ high wage lobbyists to close down land to the public it supposedly belongs to. In order for them to continue to ask for donations they must have 'emergencies'...they must have more & more land that they can target. They have many friends & appointments within the BLM...as pointed out over & over, the BLM is NOT answerable to the public...it can & should be dismantled.
Anyhow...I see how it is...sadly you do not. I suppose we all have a loyalty to who butters our bread regardless of the right or wrong of it.
And no, we're not 'asking' we'll be demanding & have every right to do so. Furthermore, it's nobody's business outside of the state what we do with the land.
You've twisted the thought process...I mean...a "ranchers private reserve"??? Lol...
One more time...the gov't used to claim 51% (their take as managers) of the land revenue while the states recieved 49%...until last year, the gov't decided (without public knowledge) to up their % to 53...they're broke ya know...because of a little known 'agreement' with the origianl 13 states concerning this revenue, it's split between the remaining states, as in, those are the monies that Congress fights over every year during the budget wars. So there's your 'greed'. The 'carrot on the stick'. And precisely 'who' put the western states in bondage to the eastern states.
Whoever thinks this is ok is the problem.
And it wouldn't take a court to make it right as it's already law...just decency & a desire to fix a major wrong.
I just can't wrap my head around the fact that because Bundy doesn't believe it is national land, even though apparently someone knew it when they took up the offer to graze cattle on it for a little over a buck a head, but now that it's time to pay for it, well it belongs to the state. Huh? The Bundy's have had chances to remedy this through the appropriate channels, and there's always an excuse....we've had bad experiences with lawyers.....per the constitution Nevada owns this not the federal government, so we don't think we should pay the feds...bottom line so we don't pay anyone, and whip up a firestorm of Liberty and Injustice because it seems to me they just don't want to pay their bills. I know what would happen to me if I all of a sudden decided I didn't want to pay Chase my mortgage payment because I thought it belonged to Bank of America.
Don't we all own the land that the Bundy's have leased, but not paid for? What about National Parks? I think there's a few of those in Nevada, one pretty good sized one in a neighboring state, the Grand Canyon? I don't remember seeing big issues over those nationally owned pieces of land.
Now, it's become something way out of proportion to what it should be, and the longer it goes, the less I feel for this rancher. Like the original poster said, if he doesn't like the arrangement let someone else take it. Move your herd to the land you own and you can do what you dang well please.
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