|
|
 Expert
Posts: 1218
 
Location: Great NW | Sometimes there comes a time when one has to say "enough" . I pray for these family's that their path becomes clear and the road smooths out. |
|
| |
|
 Toastest with the Mostest
Posts: 5712
 
Location: That part of Texas | After working in the legal system as a prosecutor and now a defense attorney, I can say that most people would be shocked at the lack of availability for treatment for these types of situations. If you have a problem child, there's not always a place to take them -- no matter how much money you can pay or not pay. You can offer $50K to place a child but if there is no room in some of these facilities, there's just no room and you have no other real options when it comes to seeking help.
The threat is real with some of these kids too. I know of a few who will always be in the system and I do fear for their families because no amount of counseling, medication or therapy seems to work. Until you've dealt with a child who can be described as refusing treatment or blanking out during therapy, you probably wouldn't believe it either but some kids are just really beyond a normal scope that it's truly frightening. |
|
| |
|
 Chicken Chick
Posts: 3562
 
Location: Texas | CanCan - 2013-11-17 9:11 AM Okay, so some of you are determined to stone this couple. Just shows that you don't understand mental illness or our health system. It is almost impossible to get help for the dangerously mentally ill. Insurance plays out and no one will help. Police will lock them up for a day or two. Hospitals will restrain, admit, and then treat and street them. This 9 year old child could be truly dangerous. I remember reading an essay written after a school shooting. The mom/author was raising a child that she understood to be capable of killing and she had no help with him. I'm off to see if I can find that essay.
We know a girl that has a mentally ill son. I don't know exactly what is wrong with him but he is mentally at the age of about 9 or so, really he is 17 I think. She is single and it is just them 2 living in their house. Being around this kid, he acted just like my 9 year old and they would have huge conversations about "kid" stuff. Not a problem, no anger issues etc, respectful. Really a good kid to be around, and we enjoyed being around him.
2 nights ago she woke up to him standing at the end of her bed staring at her. She asked what he was doing and he said "Nothing", she said then why are you in my room staring at me? He took off running. They looked for him for hours, the cops finally found him and brought him home. The cop was asking why he ran away etc and the kid kept saying "I don't know", they then started asking why he was in his mom's room watching her sleep. He finally told them he was thinking about how he could cut her up into a million pieces and get rid of the body. The cop told her what her son said about her and pretty much said good luck.
This is her biological son that she has lived with his whole life. Her son is at least 6' tall and she is like 5'4" and a tiny little thing. I don't know what she is going to do, I don't even know what her options are... but I feel for her. I couldn't imagine being scared of my own son. |
|
| |
|
10D Crack Champion
| pinx05 - 2013-11-18 4:37 PM
CanCan - 2013-11-17 9:11 AM Okay, so some of you are determined to stone this couple. Just shows that you don't understand mental illness or our health system. It is almost impossible to get help for the dangerously mentally ill. Insurance plays out and no one will help. Police will lock them up for a day or two. Hospitals will restrain, admit, and then treat and street them. This 9 year old child could be truly dangerous. I remember reading an essay written after a school shooting. The mom/author was raising a child that she understood to be capable of killing and she had no help with him. I'm off to see if I can find that essay.
We know a girl that has a mentally ill son. I don't know exactly what is wrong with him but he is mentally at the age of about 9 or so, really he is 17 I think. She is single and it is just them 2 living in their house. Being around this kid, he acted just like my 9 year old and they would have huge conversations about "kid" stuff. Not a problem, no anger issues etc, respectful. Really a good kid to be around, and we enjoyed being around him.
2 nights ago she woke up to him standing at the end of her bed staring at her. She asked what he was doing and he said "Nothing", she said then why are you in my room staring at me? He took off running. They looked for him for hours, the cops finally found him and brought him home. The cop was asking why he ran away etc and the kid kept saying "I don't know", they then started asking why he was in his mom's room watching her sleep. He finally told them he was thinking about how he could cut her up into a million pieces and get rid of the body. The cop told her what her son said about her and pretty much said good luck.
This is her biological son that she has lived with his whole life. Her son is at least 6' tall and she is like 5'4" and a tiny little thing. I don't know what she is going to do, I don't even know what her options are... but I feel for her. I couldn't imagine being scared of my own son.
That is so horrible. I would bet this is not the first time he has done this. It is probably just the first time he has done enough to wake her. It could mean he is getting closer to acting on his thoughts.I hope she can keep herself and others safe. Hopefully there will be some help for her, but chances are it will be minimal for what he needs. |
|
| |
|
10D Crack Champion
| Red Raider - 2013-11-18 4:26 PM
After working in the legal system as a prosecutor and now a defense attorney, I can say that most people would be shocked at the lack of availability for treatment for these types of situations. If you have a problem child, there's not always a place to take them -- no matter how much money you can pay or not pay. You can offer $50K to place a child but if there is no room in some of these facilities, there's just no room and you have no other real options when it comes to seeking help.
The threat is real with some of these kids too. I know of a few who will always be in the system and I do fear for their families because no amount of counseling, medication or therapy seems to work. Until you've dealt with a child who can be described as refusing treatment or blanking out during therapy, you probably wouldn't believe it either but some kids are just really beyond a normal scope that it's truly frightening.
All good points Red Raider. I know a family who has several adopted children all with mental issues. One of whom has to sleep in the parents room with all bedroom doors locked because this particular child has talked of killing one of the siblings. They all have counselors. One is homeschooled because he can't function in a small group without a scary outburst. He is scarier than the one they keep in their bedroom at night. .....downright creepy. |
|
| |
|
 Famous for Not Complaining
Posts: 8848
Location: Broxton, Ga | Few years ago we meant a couple selling a pool......and as somethings go you have small talk about different issues.........etc.........the husband / father was there to meet us......with 2 small children.......as talk went he shared with us where his wife was..........they were in the process of having their oldest daughter committed to a facility..........due to mental issues that had started early in her life........she finally became a threat to them and her sisters and had to be removed from the family.............I reckon unless we are faced with this one never knows............ |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 1336
Location: Central Arkansas | I agree with not judging the parents. I have a friend who several years ago adopted a baby boy from Russia. When he was 4 or so he tried to kill his little sister by criss crossing a dog
lease over her throat. Here are a few more things he did.
Killed a couple of their small pets.
Trying to hump the miniature horses.
Threatened to burn the house down with all them in it
Acting inappriately sexually toward his sisters.
Making up stories about his parents abusing him.
Stealing his sisters underwear and masturbating in them.
Going into rages and attacking the family.
These are only the things I can remember that he did. Everyone was scared of him.
He was in several institutions but they all released him after so long.
He was diagnosed as a sociopath. He is 22 now and not living at home.
He also has severe attachement disorder. He was already like that when she adopeted him.
She tried everything to help him. All sorts of therapy.
Sad.
As long as he is in a controlled enviroment he did OK. He can't function in the real world. |
|
| |
|
Location: In my own little world | NJJ - 2013-11-17 7:11 AM rodeomom3 - 2013-11-17 7:43 AM BARRELHORSE USA - 2013-11-17 2:07 AM ropenrun - 2013-11-16 11:30 PM CanCan - 2013-11-16 9:44 PM Please don't judge these parents. None of us know what the family has suffered. This may be the best thing for the boy. I totally agree that this may well be the best thing for this child, and for the other children in the home as well. Having worked with many children that have a diagnosed condition such as reactive attachment disorder and can not bond with anyone or anything, bipolar disorder, etc many issues can arise that make it unsafe for everyone. There just isn't enough information here to be able to make an informed opinion on whether it is right or wrong. As far as the child refusing help, there may be an easy explanation. He may receive counseling services but refuse to communicate with anyone. They are going through the motion only. I have been around small children this same age who have made me quite nervous and I never turned my back on them because I knew they were capable of stabbing me in the back, walking out and never thinking twice about what they did as being wrong. Some children have such deep rooted issues that it is unbelievable.
Unforunately some children are born with a lot of baggage, not by choice, that may never be overcome. Crack babies, fetal alcohol sydrome, the list goes on and on. The blame is not on the child, or adoptive parents or caregivers, but the birth parent that did the horrible things that may have led to this poor child having to live life with all the demons that come with it. And maybe that is not the case with this child either but that is the issue with many children adopted or not. Well said by both of you and so true ... Protecting the other members of the family comes first and the legal system is too ready to prosecute parents for just about anything while they are letting murderers and rapists go ... .... PARENTS ARE EASY TARGETS AND INEXPERIENCED IN THE COURT SYSTEM SO THE GOVERNMENT LAWYERS JUMP ON THEM TO GET ANOTHER ILLEGITIMATE WIN ON THEIR RECORDS ...
I find it strange that there are so many of you who are opposed to welfare and using tax payer money but have no problem with this family "dropping" this child into the "tax payer" funded system.
Not knowng this exact situation I can bet that taxpayers are already paying additional for this child in a variety of ways whether it be additional educational services, Medicaid based on a medical diagnosis. And we will most likely continue to pay for this child when he is older through the correctional system. If you have never worked with these kinds of children, it is hard to fathom what they are capable of. But it is real and they can be very scary.
I can just about guess this all has nothing to do with irresponsible adoptive parents wanting to give this child back, but rather this is the best thing they can do to assure that this child will get the treatment he abviously needs. To me that makes them extremely responsible. They are having to make some very difficult decisions regarding what's in the best interest for their adopted son, even if it means relinquishing their parental rights. It is also the best way for them to assure the safety of their other children and themselves.
And it really makes me wonder if the parents said exactly what is being stated...that the kid wouldn't accept treatment. This could be erroneous wording. Maybe, maybe not. My guess is how it is said and what is meant are 2 different things but that is speculation. JMO |
|
| |
|
 Elite Veteran
Posts: 808
| pinx05 - 2013-11-18 2:37 PM
CanCan - 2013-11-17 9:11 AM Okay, so some of you are determined to stone this couple. Just shows that you don't understand mental illness or our health system. It is almost impossible to get help for the dangerously mentally ill. Insurance plays out and no one will help. Police will lock them up for a day or two. Hospitals will restrain, admit, and then treat and street them. This 9 year old child could be truly dangerous. I remember reading an essay written after a school shooting. The mom/author was raising a child that she understood to be capable of killing and she had no help with him. I'm off to see if I can find that essay.
We know a girl that has a mentally ill son. I don't know exactly what is wrong with him but he is mentally at the age of about 9 or so, really he is 17 I think. She is single and it is just them 2 living in their house. Being around this kid, he acted just like my 9 year old and they would have huge conversations about "kid" stuff. Not a problem, no anger issues etc, respectful. Really a good kid to be around, and we enjoyed being around him.
2 nights ago she woke up to him standing at the end of her bed staring at her. She asked what he was doing and he said "Nothing", she said then why are you in my room staring at me? He took off running. They looked for him for hours, the cops finally found him and brought him home. The cop was asking why he ran away etc and the kid kept saying "I don't know", they then started asking why he was in his mom's room watching her sleep. He finally told them he was thinking about how he could cut her up into a million pieces and get rid of the body. The cop told her what her son said about her and pretty much said good luck.
This is her biological son that she has lived with his whole life. Her son is at least 6' tall and she is like 5'4" and a tiny little thing. I don't know what she is going to do, I don't even know what her options are... but I feel for her. I couldn't imagine being scared of my own son.
That is the scariest this I have ever read! I can't imagine what that poor woman must be thinking or going through.
That being said, I give kudos to the parents for realizing that they were unable to help this child and at least giving him to child services that hopefully can help him in some way shape or form. I'd rather my tax money go to that then bums on welfare etc |
|
| |
|
| I can testify that it is extemely hard to find mental help for a child like this. I went thru hell and back with my oldest, I almost went to jail. I begged to get her help. I searched the computer network,, church networks, hospitals, and counseling services. Sad to say there is not much help out there for kids. Especially in rural america. |
|
| |
|
 Water Weight Barbie
Posts: 6829
Location: Oz, Kansas | After listening to the news last night & seeing that a Senator was severly injured & his mentally ill son dead it made me remember this case. The news said this man tried to get his son committed but the hospitals were full & he had no choice but to take him home. I live in the County, and across the highway, from one of the few State run mental hospitals left in the Country. I also worked there & have had several family members work there. Mental Health has been swept under the table for many years & there are few options left for families, whether public or private. Our jails are full of people that should be in long term psychiatric hospitals but there aren't any. Once that person is an adult it makes it even more difficult to get them involuntarily committed. As much as I hate to say it, maybe now that one of their own was a victim the Gov't will start taking notice. Though I doubt it. |
|
| |
|
 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 501
Location: Oklahoma | As an HR professional who deals with the benefits of our organization... I have seen some very sad things, but the greatest injustice is the mental health care system itself as well as the legal system when it comes to addressing mental health issues. There really isn't alot of help available to these families or the victims of mental health situations. I have seen people have to threaten sucide or something else to even get any help at all. From what I can gather, at least in the state of Oklahoma- we really don't know how to address it or deal with it. Insurance pays very little towards it- and we don't have the facilities needed in our area. |
|
| |
|
Water Weight Barbie
Posts: 6829
Location: Oz, Kansas | runningfree123 - 2013-11-20 8:04 AM As an HR professional who deals with the benefits of our organization... I have seen some very sad things, but the greatest injustice is the mental health care system itself as well as the legal system when it comes to addressing mental health issues. There really isn't alot of help available to these families or the victims of mental health situations. I have seen people have to threaten sucide or something else to even get any help at all. From what I can gather, at least in the state of Oklahoma- we really don't know how to address it or deal with it. Insurance pays very little towards it- and we don't have the facilities needed in our area.
The hospital that is in my area used to house over 1300 patients that number has continued to drop & now can house right around 300. There are only 2 state run adult hospitals in the State of Kansas & one juvenile hospital. It's really sad to see funding continue to get cut in this area of need. |
|
| |
|
Nut Case Expert
Posts: 9305
Location: Tulsa, Ok | lookout hill - 2013-11-20 9:11 AM runningfree123 - 2013-11-20 8:04 AM As an HR professional who deals with the benefits of our organization... I have seen some very sad things, but the greatest injustice is the mental health care system itself as well as the legal system when it comes to addressing mental health issues. There really isn't alot of help available to these families or the victims of mental health situations. I have seen people have to threaten sucide or something else to even get any help at all. From what I can gather, at least in the state of Oklahoma- we really don't know how to address it or deal with it. Insurance pays very little towards it- and we don't have the facilities needed in our area. The hospital that is in my area used to house over 1300 patients that number has continued to drop & now can house right around 300. There are only 2 state run adult hospitals in the State of Kansas & one juvenile hospital. It's really sad to see funding continue to get cut in this area of need.
It seems that "warehousing" the mentally ill has become politically incorrect, which seems reasonable until you consider that there is a total lack of viable alternatives, much less funding for alternative treatments. |
|
| |
|
 Undercover Amish Mafia Member
Posts: 9991
Location: Kansas | Wow, just wow |
|
| |
|
Water Weight Barbie
Posts: 6829
Location: Oz, Kansas | SC Wrangler - 2013-11-20 8:21 AM lookout hill - 2013-11-20 9:11 AM runningfree123 - 2013-11-20 8:04 AM As an HR professional who deals with the benefits of our organization... I have seen some very sad things, but the greatest injustice is the mental health care system itself as well as the legal system when it comes to addressing mental health issues. There really isn't alot of help available to these families or the victims of mental health situations. I have seen people have to threaten sucide or something else to even get any help at all. From what I can gather, at least in the state of Oklahoma- we really don't know how to address it or deal with it. Insurance pays very little towards it- and we don't have the facilities needed in our area. The hospital that is in my area used to house over 1300 patients that number has continued to drop & now can house right around 300. There are only 2 state run adult hospitals in the State of Kansas & one juvenile hospital. It's really sad to see funding continue to get cut in this area of need.
I was watching a documentary on the Cook County jail & the sheriff said that over 2500 inmates are mentally ill & have no where else to go. So as soon as they max their time they commit another petty theft so they can go back in because they no their services will stop once they are on the outside. That right there is so sad. |
|
| |
|
 Expert
Posts: 1432
Location: Never in one place long | Scout1320 - 2013-11-18 3:38 PM
My friend has a little girl. She is only 6 years old (my daughter is 5). It is sad, but the 6 year old is big time, hugely not right. She has left barbies hanging by their neck with ropes all over, she stoof up in class and pointed her finger and said, "I am going to kill...each...and...every....one of you..." She will give evil looks to her teachers, class mates, etc and while giving the evil stare down will slide her finger across her throat (like " I am going to slit your throat" motion).
Also, she still wears a diaper. Her psychiatrist says because she likes "control." I forget what it is called, but she will hoard poop, like not go poop for a week, and then take a ginormous dump in her diaper and not let anyone change it for her. She has already killed small animals, and what is worse is her mom is expecting a baby boy. God be with that boy.
That poor girl just isn't right. And she is so young!
That girl is MESSED UP! She better watch her baby!! :( so sad.... I don't know if I'd even trust having her with a baby! I don't know what the answer is but those people seem to NEVER change only move onto hurting bigger things from small animals, to large animals to humans.... NOTHING should have to suffer because of a crazy, sick individual! |
|
| |
|
Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | Just so you all know, this thread has officially scared me away from ever having kids. lol |
|
| |
|
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 501
Location: Oklahoma | lookout hill - 2013-11-20 9:35 AM SC Wrangler - 2013-11-20 8:21 AM lookout hill - 2013-11-20 9:11 AM runningfree123 - 2013-11-20 8:04 AM As an HR professional who deals with the benefits of our organization... I have seen some very sad things, but the greatest injustice is the mental health care system itself as well as the legal system when it comes to addressing mental health issues. There really isn't alot of help available to these families or the victims of mental health situations. I have seen people have to threaten sucide or something else to even get any help at all. From what I can gather, at least in the state of Oklahoma- we really don't know how to address it or deal with it. Insurance pays very little towards it- and we don't have the facilities needed in our area. The hospital that is in my area used to house over 1300 patients that number has continued to drop & now can house right around 300. There are only 2 state run adult hospitals in the State of Kansas & one juvenile hospital. It's really sad to see funding continue to get cut in this area of need.
Ironically, the thing that I see and maybe that is the issue.... in many cases of mentally ill persons, there isn't a cure! There isn't an answer. Some of them are simply broken. In 5 cases that i have dealt with, long term, there has been no change. They are on medication to control impulses or bad/poor behavior- but that only works as long as they take or can afford the medication. There is no cure! I saw or read a statistic once about how many mentally ill people are in prison and I dont' remember what it was- but it was high. The only answer for the worst and most dangerous cases is to be warehoused.. sad to say... whether it is in prison or a mental healthy facility. Some people are just broken. |
|
| |
|
 Wishing I were a Wildcat
Location: 'Hawk Country | They are Sociopaths and there is no cure.
|
|
| |
Folks on-line