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Hungarian Midget Woman
  
Location: Midwest | hashope11 - 2013-11-20 10:00 AM
Still can't get that to come up when I googled it but I fault myself for not doing it this time because that is normally one of the first things I do when looking at a horse and I didn't this time. I spent all night beating myself up over the deal because I wanted a project but knew we couldn't afford much. After 5 years without barrel racing my mare, due to her being a broodmare & me having kids too, I pulled her out this year and ran her and she ended up winning the 2d without me pushing her at all. This was a mare that wouldn't even think about walking in the gate let alone turn a barrel. She did awesome, but she can't be pushed or she'll blow up. I've come so far with her I won't take the chance of ruining her, so we check a lot of cows and fence and its worked great. I can't practice barrels either, although I can walk around them or do a few other slow exercises to get her to bend she doesn't need the practice, I do. So I got bit by the barrel racing bug and decided to get something I could play with on the barrels. I still plan on running my mare sometimes but not much, that's why I got this mare. My mistake and I fully take the blame.
I really wouldn't beat yourself up about it. Sometimes things aren't what we thought, or people aren't totally honest, whatevs
If you learn something from an experience, it is never a waste |
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 Forever Young
Posts: 6768
  
Location: relocated to Texas | hashope11 - 2013-11-20 9:21 PM So how do you sell a horse with this type of issue? The previous owners were supposed to call me back but they never did (not real surprised knowing now what I do). Like I said she's bred to the hills & has a really nice build. I am honest and will be completely upfront to anyone about this. But are there people out there that would still consider her with this issue? You said she is 15 and had not been ridden much. She is at a new home, new saddle, etc. Tell me, did you just tie her to the trailer and throw the saddle on? Then, after she pulled back the first time, sounds like you tied her again (or left her tied) and went to get something in the trailer - trusting her after she had pulled back once. The lesson to be learned here on your part is that horses rarely just pull back once. It usually gets them more frightened and they continue to do so until they no longer feel trapped - in her case, until she busted the lead rope. The reason for her pulling back in the first place could have been saddle fit, and/or not having a cinch on in a while, or the cinch was pulled too tight to begin with. Some horses you have to cinch a little at a time or you will get a reaction.
IMO, your first mistake was not doing some ground work with her before you tried to saddle her and jump on. Probably a good thing she did pull back because she could have had this reaction with you ON her back. When you get a new horse, it is always best to get to know them on the ground FIRST. Do some desensitizing exercises with her, see how she responds to your cues on the ground, etc. When you do go to saddle, I would never tie one hard, but would either just loop the lead rope through or better yet, use Clinton Anderson's Aussie tie ring or the Blocker Tie Ring (they are the same thing). Clinton Anderson has a good video that goes along with the tie ring that he sells with techniques to help get a horse past pulling back.
It doesn't sound like the previous owners are going to be much help, so this problem is going to be yours to deal with. Get the CA tie ring and DVD and see if you can fix it. If you don't think you can do that, sell the mare to someone who is willing to work with her.
Edited by Hollywood's Fan 2013-11-20 10:27 AM
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Regular
Posts: 75
Location: Iowa | I appreciate ALL the opinions, advice and information given. I don't take anything said as being rude or mean. I will explain myself the best I can and try to explain why it is that I got her and what I did. I have replayed the day that I looked at her in my head over and over, and then the events that took place yesterday. I didn't tie her and saddle her fast. Yes I will admit I was trying to move along because I didn't have a ton of time to ride before I had to get back to my kids. But, I know better than to rush a horse, especially one that is new to me and the surroundings. I tied her and she was tied for awhile before I saddled her. I tried a few pads on her to see what fit the best and then put the saddle on her and adjusted it to see if it was the best fit for her. I was happy with how it sat on her so I proceeded to tighten the cinch, which I do slowly since we do have a cinchy mare, that will explode if you don't do it the right way. I've learned a lot about that with her and now do things completely different from what I learned growing up. She still didn't do anything until I started to go to the front tack area in the trailer to see what bit I was going to ride her with. That's when she blew up. I waited for her to stop and realize that when they do that they shake themselves up. So I talked to her and calmed her down then loosened the saddle. I moved it a little more to see if it would work and made sure she wasn't pinning her ears or giving me any signs of being uncomfortable, and then went to the tack area. I even took the time to switch a few bits around with different headstalls to see what combo I would use. Then she did it again. It wasn't one right after the other. After that I was a little shaken up and called my husband who came out and helped me get the saddle off. Once we got the saddle off, she stood there again. Then out of the blue she did it again, which is when she broke the snap on the rope and took off. We then calmed her down and tried to throw a different saddle on her without her being tied and we never even got it on her back long before she did it again. After trying one more time, we decided enough was enough.
We have bred some quarter race horses that have been pretty successful on the track and God knows they are spirited animals. We also have two who came back from the track and are still spirited but are handled daily. They are young and we expect them to be unpredictable, but they are smart enough to listen and learn. I am positive someone could take this mare and turn her around but I'm also sure it's not me. I don't want to give up, but I know my limitations too. As someone else said my time is very limited for a problem horse. When I get a chance to work with something or ride I want to go out and get something accomplished because I may not be able to get out on that horse again for a few days or sometimes a few weeks if my kids are sick, etc. So to me it's priceless to have a horse I can pull out and just ride. We may have our bad days where not much was accomplished, but thats expected and I'm okay with that. But if I have to work them for an hour before I can saddle up, well, that was all the time I may havebhad so then I don't get the chance to ride at all. Just can't have that. |
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Forever Young
Posts: 6768
Location: relocated to Texas | After reading your explanation, I would say that you should sell the horse or try to get the people to take her back. She is going to take some time to fix, and may or may not be fixed completely since she is an aged horse. Kudos to you for recognizing that she is going to be too much work for you and your situation. Better that you send her down the road and I hope she goes to someone that has the time for her.  |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 902
Location: Qld Australia | You keep saying you bought her as a project - projects by definition need work. This is work that you are not willing to give her so sell her to someone that will. Also, all the comments about using her as a broodmare - broodmare still need to be tied up!!!!!!!
We stand two stallions for live cover and AI many mares. All our live cover mares MUST tie up to be bred for safety and everything else needs to tie up for convenience. If we have the vet coming to check let's say 3 mares, I will have them caught and tied as close as possible to where the ultrasound will be set up. The vet doesn't want to wait while I lead one back to her paddock, let them go and then get another. Also, what about travelling the mare to the vet or stallion etc. Will she just be left loose in the trailer? No.
Sell her with full disclosure, she will probably make a great riding horse for someone willing to put a little effort in. |
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  Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | sounds like she got spooked when you went to front of trailer.. you dont know what her past was like.. then did it again and same reaction.. by then she is already spazzed out about any of it and so therefore again untied.. its all new to her.. the environment etc..shes older and set in her ways...
eitehr give her some time or rehome her .. |
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 The Vaccinator
Posts: 3810
Location: Slipping down the slope of old age. Boo hoo. | My opinion... she is 15 years old and she has probably been pulling back for a long time..... and I doubt she will stop. If this is a safety issue for you, get rid of her. Breaking one of this habit is not easy and really takes some work / dedication... and then you have to really be "on your toes" forevermore. I would not be "making excuses" for her, i.e. it was the saddle, you rushed her, etc. Horses that pull back like that typically don't usually just suddenly start doing it over some small issue. |
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Regular
Posts: 75
Location: Iowa | I did buy her as a project, but PROJECT and PROBLEM are two completely different things. I was very willing to work with her on her being rusty and needing to go back to the basics on barrels. However I am not willing to work out a problem of this magnitude, ESPECIALLY if it puts my family at risk. Granted this is a possible fix and could even be an easy one with a little time. BUT when that horse flipped back and came so close to my husband and kids, the buck stopped right there. I don't care if she was $1 million dollar horse, it just plain doesn't matter to me when it comes to my family. Sorry if I'm giving up too easy, but if something happened to my kids or anyone for that matter, because I was out to prove a point and keep an animal around that was this way, I would NEVER FORGIVE MYSELF. ANYONE who is willing to take her on is very welcome to send me a message and I will be happy to work something out with you. I am still waiting to hear from the previous owners on whether they will take her back or not. |
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 The Original Cyber Bartender
Location: Washington | hashope11 - 2013-11-20 3:59 PM I did buy her as a project, but PROJECT and PROBLEM are two completely different things. I was very willing to work with her on her being rusty and needing to go back to the basics on barrels. However I am not willing to work out a problem of this magnitude, ESPECIALLY if it puts my family at risk. Granted this is a possible fix and could even be an easy one with a little time. BUT when that horse flipped back and came so close to my husband and kids, the buck stopped right there. I don't care if she was $1 million dollar horse, it just plain doesn't matter to me when it comes to my family. Sorry if I'm giving up too easy, but if something happened to my kids or anyone for that matter, because I was out to prove a point and keep an animal around that was this way, I would NEVER FORGIVE MYSELF. ANYONE who is willing to take her on is very welcome to send me a message and I will be happy to work something out with you. I am still waiting to hear from the previous owners on whether they will take her back or not.
I applaud you for having your priorities straight.  |
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 Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | hashope11 - 2013-11-19 9:21 PM So how do you sell a horse with this type of issue? The previous owners were supposed to call me back but they never did (not real surprised knowing now what I do). Like I said she's bred to the hills & has a really nice build. I am honest and will be completely upfront to anyone about this. But are there people out there that would still consider her with this issue?
I'm guessing she was a freak before you got her and just because she was bred to the hills, doesn't mean she ever was a good riding horse (probably why she became a broodmare  ). Guessing she had a good price too? If it sounds too good to be true and too easy to make a dollar, it probably is. I'd get her gone. |
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I Need a Xanax!
Posts: 2774
| fatchance - 2013-11-20 6:14 PM
hashope11 - 2013-11-20 3:59 PM I did buy her as a project, but PROJECT and PROBLEM are two completely different things. I was very willing to work with her on her being rusty and needing to go back to the basics on barrels. However I am not willing to work out a problem of this magnitude, ESPECIALLY if it puts my family at risk. Granted this is a possible fix and could even be an easy one with a little time. BUT when that horse flipped back and came so close to my husband and kids, the buck stopped right there. I don't care if she was $1 million dollar horse, it just plain doesn't matter to me when it comes to my family. Sorry if I'm giving up too easy, but if something happened to my kids or anyone for that matter, because I was out to prove a point and keep an animal around that was this way, I would NEVER FORGIVE MYSELF. ANYONE who is willing to take her on is very welcome to send me a message and I will be happy to work something out with you. I am still waiting to hear from the previous owners on whether they will take her back or not.
I applaud you for having your priorities straight.
Me too. OP sounds like a great mom! |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 902
Location: Qld Australia | I never said not to sell her, I said sell her with complete disclosure and even as a broodie she would be expected to be tied up. |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | hashope11 - 2013-11-20 5:59 PM I did buy her as a project, but PROJECT and PROBLEM are two completely different things. I was very willing to work with her on her being rusty and needing to go back to the basics on barrels. However I am not willing to work out a problem of this magnitude, ESPECIALLY if it puts my family at risk. Granted this is a possible fix and could even be an easy one with a little time. BUT when that horse flipped back and came so close to my husband and kids, the buck stopped right there. I don't care if she was $1 million dollar horse, it just plain doesn't matter to me when it comes to my family. Sorry if I'm giving up too easy, but if something happened to my kids or anyone for that matter, because I was out to prove a point and keep an animal around that was this way, I would NEVER FORGIVE MYSELF. ANYONE who is willing to take her on is very welcome to send me a message and I will be happy to work something out with you. I am still waiting to hear from the previous owners on whether they will take her back or not.
I still say you do what makes you feel better, having kids around horses that you just dont trust is a need to resell the animal. If I feel like an animal could be a danger to my family its gone. No way would I keep it |
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Veteran
Posts: 165
| I had a good gelding a few years ago that I sold to a young girl. She used him for one summer then went off to school and he stood around for about 3 yrs doing nothing but being served by people every day. They finally decided to sell him and I told another friend about him. When I took her to see him, he acted like he had never seen a saddle or pad before, he was rude and belligerant about being handled at all. We ended up bringing him back to my place and we took him right back to the round pen and worked the heck out of him, sacked him out with the pad and saddle and just got after him until he finally decided to give in and realize that the holiday was over, it took a few days before he quit testing us. My friend did end up buying him and now with consistant handling, he stands like a dream for saddling and his manners are much better.
My dad had a friend who was saddling a horse that was tied up and the horse pulled back, knocked her down and she was pinned between the horse and post and was killed. I rarely tie a horse tight while I'm saddling and cinching up now. I always pull the knot loose first. I do have one mare who will randomly pull back and when she does she doesn't quit until she breaks something. Sometimes months will go by with no incidents, then something will trigger her to pull. Be careful. |
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 Money Eating Baggage Owner
Posts: 9586
Location: Phoenix | Delta Cowgirl - 2013-11-20 3:55 PM My opinion... she is 15 years old and she has probably been pulling back for a long time..... and I doubt she will stop. If this is a safety issue for you, get rid of her. Breaking one of this habit is not easy and really takes some work / dedication... and then you have to really be "on your toes" forevermore. I would not be "making excuses" for her, i.e. it was the saddle, you rushed her, etc. Horses that pull back like that typically don't usually just suddenly start doing it over some small issue.
Ditto. I have a hard time believing a horse pulls back because of poor saddle fit. Give me a break! She does it because she's done it before. I'd get a tie blocker ring. Or hell, don't even tie her. Just send the lead rope through the trailer tie so she *thinks* she's tied up but isn't. We do this all the time wih horses that are sketchy like that. We don't have many, but we've had a couple that were silly like that. They are all business in the arena, just iffy at the trailer. |
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Veteran
Posts: 183
| Just sell her with a real clear disclaimer or let them buy her back discounted. If you are ok financially with giving her away do that! I've given 3 horses away and it always came back to me somehow with better horses down the road. I attribute that to God. No sense in feeding a horse you don't trust or have time to mess with. Get busy and act cuz times a wastin'. lol. |
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 Veteran
Posts: 173
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow | You can do this...it is worth the try I think. Right now it doesn't matter how long she has done this or what they knew that they didn't disclose. Irritating but irreleva t right now. Let's rebrain her. She is acting like a colt that is learning to stand tied, so lets treat her like one. I know she is 15 but for this activity she is a baby and stuck mentally or spoiled, either way... You can help her get up to her age in a short period of time I promise. Sounds simple and it is but it's not easy because you have to exercise your best trainng attributes in order to help her...patience.
Her we go. Put her in a halter with a lead rope (in a safe pen) let her relearn giving to pressure. Spend those few days walking her grooming her pick up her feet, talk to her luv on her just like you do a baby.
Next, stand with her in your hand. Give her a command that says stand. If she takes a step move her feet. Reward her for standing with a pat and a good girl etc...let her go. Do that for a few days increasing g the amount of time that you make her stand still in your hand.
Next, tie...dont leave her. If she moves whe you give her the command to stand move her feet. A few days of ths increasing the expectation.
Next, approach with th saddle. Only place it on her. If she is nice, release and let her go. Few days of this as well as all of the above layered on.
Add the cinch just comi gu der her, don't tighter. If she is good release, bad, move her feet.
Keep progressing as if she is a baby. A few weeks and you might have an awesome horse.
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Veteran
Posts: 173
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow | Sorry for all of the spelling errors....I should mention this has worked for me on several horses that I wanted to give up on. After this everything else was easy. Very rewarding if you can get her to work out her fear. |
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 How freakish is that?
Posts: 3927
Location: Oregon | "Bred to the hills"? |
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Veteran
Posts: 173
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow | crapshooter - 2013-11-21 6:39 PM
"Bred to the hills"?
She has nice breeding...dam and sire are both money earners and have produced money earners. Maybe your hills are different than someone else.  |
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