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 Thread Killer
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| Three 4 Luck - 2013-12-17 7:00 PM Just Plain Lucky - 2013-12-17 5:13 PM TXBO - 2013-12-17 5:55 PM Just Plain Lucky - 2013-12-17 1:45 PM .....There are many things in the Bible that have been proven false by science. ....
What has been proven wrong by science?
For me, science has proven that the Earth is much, much older than the Bible says it to be. It has proven that the animals that walk the Earth now did not just appear, they changed and grew over time. That includes human kind.
That's a good point. ;)
The bottom line is that I just don't know like so many others. Like I said before, I feel like a fraud when I try to be serious about religion & faith in general. I admire those who are so sure about things when I am not. There are some things that I have an extremely hard time accepting.
Reading this thread has been very interesting. Perhaps religion is what confuses and repels me (not God) like a few others said.
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 IMA No Hair Style Gal
Posts: 2594
| The best question in the world to ask a public middle school science teacher!
In science we are driven by evidence. Without evidence you have no way to explain or back up any reasoning that could be considered "credible."
So how do I personally balance evidence vs. belief?
Everything I have been through in my life (which is more then what most 26 year olds have dealt with) I have ALWAYS been okay. I have always been taken care of.
Now-when I apply this to science---
I believe that the things we have an explanation for in science were willed to be done by God in the first place.
Something else that fascinates me and gets me really thinking about God is when I think about the Universe! We just did a series of brain teasers on the Universe in class-and I will admit learning about the Universe FASCINATES ME! There is so much out there-so much unknown-so much more out there beyond our own comprehension-and to me that is God. A higher power that is beyond our own comprehension, but does exist.
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ETA - this was meant to quote TXBO's question to me :)
That the Bible is a sole source of Authority, which leaves every man up for his own interpretation of it, or following the interpretation of the denomination they are already in all which disaggree on what it actually means. I do believe the Bible to be authoratative and correct (though there are bad translations), but not exhaustive.
Edited by angel123 2013-12-17 8:23 PM
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Cold hands and Warm Heart
Location: oklahoma |
“To one who has faith, no explanation is necessary. To one without faith, no explanation is possible.”
thomas aquinas
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 Googly Goo
Posts: 7053
| angel123 - 2013-12-17 7:53 PM
ETA - this was meant to quote TXBO's question to me :)
That the Bible is a sole source of Authority, which leaves every man up for his own interpretation of it, or following the interpretation of the denomination they are already in all which disaggree on what it actually means. I do believe the Bible to be authoratative and correct (though there are bad translations), but not exhaustive.
Our belief in Sola Scriptura does not mean that everyone can interprete Scripture in their own way. It means that we believe the Scriptures to be the complete truth. No one can add to it. No one can subtract from it. All Church teachings and doctrine must be consistent with Scripture. | |
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Googly Goo
Posts: 7053
| Just Plain Lucky - 2013-12-17 7:52 PM Three 4 Luck - 2013-12-17 7:00 PM Just Plain Lucky - 2013-12-17 5:13 PM TXBO - 2013-12-17 5:55 PM Just Plain Lucky - 2013-12-17 1:45 PM .....There are many things in the Bible that have been proven false by science. ....
What has been proven wrong by science?
For me, science has proven that the Earth is much, much older than the Bible says it to be. It has proven that the animals that walk the Earth now did not just appear, they changed and grew over time. That includes human kind.
Reading this thread has been very interesting. Perhaps religion is what confuses and repels me (not God) like a few others said.
What exactly do you have a hard time accepting? | |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 725
Location: Hogwarts | WYOTurn-n-Burn - 2013-12-17 6:48 PM
Della&bubba - 2013-12-17 4:25 PM barrelracr131 - 2013-12-17 2:33 PM hammer_time - 2013-12-17 1:13 PM Della&bubba - 2013-12-17 8:31 AM That's one of the things we discussed. If religion is completely taken out of the world and atheism strengthened, would their still be morals? I think there would be because I'm an atheist and I believe in the golden rule of do unto others that you would do unto you. But then I'd start to think and I feel on the other hand there are people who really need that looming idea of a greater punishment to stay fairly well on the straight and narrow (not implying you do but the general population as a whole). I don't know. This topic interests me a lot. Religion fascinates me, which is weird because I don't believe in it haha. Â I'm kind of the same way.....I'm agnostic. Â I believe there is a God who plans out fate and has a reason for what happens....but I have yet to be SAVED or have a relationship.....I just don't know how. Â I feel like a fraud whenever I think about getting serious. Â I DO believe in the idea of a positive attitude, which God/religion seems to bring to people. Â
BTW, not all scientists are athiests or agnostics. In fact, the founder of the Human Genome Project is some sort of Christian religion. Â
Science is an extremely interesting subject. So is religion. Our understanding of both subjects is limited by our intelligence as a species. I think I am more of a spiritual atheist. I believe that everything is connected in some way but not in a specific higher being. That's the definition of atheism is not believing in God or gods. Thank you to all who have replied by the way! I have been enjoying reading them all. I just wanted to talk about it because what's the point in taking a class without talking about it outside of the classroom? I read a really cool book for a report in this one called Atom and Eve it is a just a collection of interviews by prominent scientists, religious people, etc. that discuss there faith. A lot of scientists are devout Christians. Some Christians are strongly against science while others talk about how good a relationship between the two could be. It was fascinating. ETA: I wish I could have a conversation with all you personally. I'm really not trying to disprove religion or anything like that I'm just honestly fascinated as to what draws people to certain things. Its really the only thing in college that has really captured my attention so far and I like having discussions about religion and faith and everything. I just wish it wasn't so much of a taboo in our culture. For those who believe wholeheartedly, I am envious of your conviction in believing so much in something. I hope none of you think this is an attack or anything on what you believe. I feel like a few people above who have said they feel like frauds sometimes.
Have you ever sat back and pondered why you felt compelled to put this thread here? Or why you find discussion of faith facinating? I think it is GOD's work to bring you back to him.Â
Ever read the book "What happens when I die?" Â
Who knows it might be. I've sometimes felt like there might be some kind of driving force behind nature but I don't know and sometimes I feel like its better to carry the label spiritual atheist or agnostic because I honestly don't know exactly what I believe. It's the time in my life where I'm questioning a lot of things about a whole bunch of things. | |
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 Total Germophobe
Posts: 6443
Location: Montana | What an interesting question. I, personally, don't have a large knowledge of science beyond biology and basic science. I was home schooled, using a Christian based learning program, so pretty much all the science I had had a Christian base with God at the core.
I don't think I can honestly say science, one way or the other, has had an impact on how or why I believe. I believe because I know I am a sinner in need of God's love and mercy and I need His Son, Jesus, to save me. I need the Bible because it shows me the path to eternal life. Perhaps the Bible has been misinterpreted over the years, but it is still here in our every day life and I think still has the same priniciples at play as the original translations. I pray because I want what is best for those I love, and I know God knows what is best for them. And I pray because I want to know what God's will and purpose is for my life, and I want that connectiong with God. Life isn't easy, and I don't think I could make it through without God or His Son or His Word. I'm lost a lot of the times (and I know I would be really lost without God), but God gives me His peace. I know I'm not one of the smartest or wisest people out there in regards to the Bible or God or any other subject, so I know I don't always understand, but everything will be revealed in God's time. LadyJockey on here, with her posts with her takes on Bible verses has inspired me greatly and give me new insight.
I don't know if anything makes me believe beyond the fact of needing to. God gives us a choice to believe or not, so I guess I choose to.
I have to agree with another poster, that I think this question is the work of God because He is being talked about!
Merry Christmas!
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Common Sense and then some
Location: So. California | TXBO - 2013-12-17 7:11 PM angel123 - 2013-12-17 7:53 PM
ETA - this was meant to quote TXBO's question to me :)
That the Bible is a sole source of Authority, which leaves every man up for his own interpretation of it, or following the interpretation of the denomination they are already in all which disaggree on what it actually means. I do believe the Bible to be authoratative and correct (though there are bad translations), but not exhaustive. Our belief in Sola Scriptura does not mean that everyone can interprete Scripture in their own way. It means that we believe the Scriptures to be the complete truth. No one can add to it. No one can subtract from it. All Church teachings and doctrine must be consistent with Scripture.
What a great topic. I believe in God and I believe in a loving God, not a punishing God. I am not religious, but I am very spirtitual and talk to God daily and ask him to show me the way...
What confuses me with your statement is if that the Scripture is supposed to be the complete truth and that All Church teaching and doctrines must be consistent with the Scripture, then why are there different teachings and different versions of the bible within the same religion? Some bibles have more 'books' than others. And why is there an Old Testiment and a New Testiment? Why did man need a new version? That is what is baffling to me. | |
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Common Sense and then some
Location: So. California | Just Plain Lucky - 2013-12-17 5:52 PM That's a good point. ;)
The bottom line is that I just don't know like so many others. Like I said before, I feel like a fraud when I try to be serious about religion & faith in general. I admire those who are so sure about things when I am not. There are some things that I have an extremely hard time accepting.
Reading this thread has been very interesting. Perhaps religion is what confuses and repels me (not God) like a few others said.
I, too, have trouble with organized religion, but I no long have trouble with believing in God. A loving God.
A good friend once said to go to my favorite place, sit with my eyes closed and truly open my heart to all things are possible... Listen to the sounds around me, touch the ground below me, feel the air around me. Think of the most trying times in life and pray. I realized after a period of time that I was never alone through those times, that somehow, something was helping me, guiding me, holding me, assuring me... The little miracles were always there, I was just not seeing them before, now I do. I am now filled with the belief that I was never alone and don't ever have to be alone as He is always with me. I am one of God's children and he loves me...
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 Veteran
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Location: southeast | I have always believed in God, grew up in a Baptist church and never questioned anything.....I didn't always live my life like I should have but still believed. Fast forward to age 42... I went thru the lowest point in my life. I was at the point of giving up on everything including life. I was alone, broken and homeless. While laying in bed one night trying to say some soft of desperate prayer God spoke to me. He called me by name and said "hold on". That has been over two years ago and I have since got my life back on track and realized He was there for me when no one else was. He saved me, my job and the rest of my life. | |
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Googly Goo
Posts: 7053
| Anniemae - 2013-12-17 11:59 PM TXBO - 2013-12-17 7:11 PM angel123 - 2013-12-17 7:53 PM
ETA - this was meant to quote TXBO's question to me :)
That the Bible is a sole source of Authority, which leaves every man up for his own interpretation of it, or following the interpretation of the denomination they are already in all which disaggree on what it actually means. I do believe the Bible to be authoratative and correct (though there are bad translations), but not exhaustive. Our belief in Sola Scriptura does not mean that everyone can interprete Scripture in their own way. It means that we believe the Scriptures to be the complete truth. No one can add to it. No one can subtract from it. All Church teachings and doctrine must be consistent with Scripture.
What confuses me with your statement is if that the Scripture is supposed to be the complete truth and that All Church teaching and doctrines must be consistent with the Scripture, then why are there different teachings and different versions of the bible within the same religion? Some bibles have more 'books' than others. And why is there an Old Testiment and a New Testiment? Why did man need a new version? That is what is baffling to me.
Annie, that is a really long discussion but I'll try to give a short explanation. First, not all Churches agre with sola Scriptura. It's a product of the reformation. Catholics and Orthodox reject it and some Protestants don't follow it. As far as the books of the Bible, there have been conferences among Church leaders to determine the authenticity of Scripture. The difference in the books of the Bible in different Churches reflects the difference in their belief in authenticity. | |
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| Anniemae - 2013-12-18 12:59 AM TXBO - 2013-12-17 7:11 PM angel123 - 2013-12-17 7:53 PM
ETA - this was meant to quote TXBO's question to me :)
That the Bible is a sole source of Authority, which leaves every man up for his own interpretation of it, or following the interpretation of the denomination they are already in all which disaggree on what it actually means. I do believe the Bible to be authoratative and correct (though there are bad translations), but not exhaustive. Our belief in Sola Scriptura does not mean that everyone can interprete Scripture in their own way. It means that we believe the Scriptures to be the complete truth. No one can add to it. No one can subtract from it. All Church teachings and doctrine must be consistent with Scripture.
What confuses me with your statement is if that the Scripture is supposed to be the complete truth and that All Church teaching and doctrines must be consistent with the Scripture, then why are there different teachings and different versions of the bible within the same religion? Some bibles have more 'books' than others. And why is there an Old Testiment and a New Testiment? Why did man need a new version? That is what is baffling to me.
http://www.wisegeek.org/what-is-the-difference-between-the-new-and-old-testaments-of-the-bible.htm This explains it better than I could.In short, the Old Testament focuses on the history of the Jews, while the New Testament focuses on Jesus Christ and the birth of the Christian faith. The New Testament always shows how the God of the Old Testament completed His redemptive work in the person of Jesus Christ, who died to atone for the sins of all mankind. The Bible has permeated Western culture to its very core, is a foundation of literature and of spirituality. While Jews believe the Messiah has not yet come, to Christians, the Old Testament is inextricably linked with the New. The New Testament verbalizes as a promise the Old Testament inference of a salvation free to all humans.
The older I get and the more that is revealed to me ( in other words,my understanding becomes clearer, apparently as His will allows me to understand) I'm utterly AMAZED at the intricacies of how the Old and New Testaments tie together. Seek and you shall find, as the scriptures tell us. Without seeking, studying and meditating (we should be doing this daily) on the Bible and what it has to reveal to us we will NEVER understand what it has to offer us. If we will make it our mission to allow it to be our guide and take it seriously (more seriously than we do much less important things that take up so much of our time), it will, in due time, reveal to us what we need to know when we are ready to receive the message. You'd be surprised and amazed what all is in there when you allow yourself to receive it! Sometimes we go through periods of our life where we are in the mind-set of "I don't want to hear that stuff", well, how much we miss out on the blessings and wisdom that are there for the taking by having that attitude. I would encourage everyone to accept the gifts that the Bible has to offer and, most importantly, the gift of Jesus Christ who can and will SAVE you and offer you abundant life in the here and now and eternal life hereafter!
Edited by runs4fun 2013-12-18 8:39 AM
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | TXBO - 2013-12-17 5:38 PM Just Plain Lucky - 2013-12-17 5:13 PM TXBO - 2013-12-17 5:55 PM Just Plain Lucky - 2013-12-17 1:45 PM .....There are many things in the Bible that have been proven false by science. ....
What has been proven wrong by science?
For me, science has proven that the Earth is much, much older than the Bible says it to be. It has proven that the animals that walk the Earth now did not just appear, they changed and grew over time. That includes human kind.
Biogenesis describes the origins of life
Evolution describes the origins of new species
these two ideas are not the same, and evolution is still a widely accepted theory (as is gravity). The disproving of biogenesis has nothing to do with evolution and natural selection. | |
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 Midget Lover
Location: Kentucky | TXBO - 2013-12-18 9:03 AM Anniemae - 2013-12-17 11:59 PM TXBO - 2013-12-17 7:11 PM angel123 - 2013-12-17 7:53 PM
ETA - this was meant to quote TXBO's question to me :)
That the Bible is a sole source of Authority, which leaves every man up for his own interpretation of it, or following the interpretation of the denomination they are already in all which disaggree on what it actually means. I do believe the Bible to be authoratative and correct (though there are bad translations), but not exhaustive. Our belief in Sola Scriptura does not mean that everyone can interprete Scripture in their own way. It means that we believe the Scriptures to be the complete truth. No one can add to it. No one can subtract from it. All Church teachings and doctrine must be consistent with Scripture.
What confuses me with your statement is if that the Scripture is supposed to be the complete truth and that All Church teaching and doctrines must be consistent with the Scripture, then why are there different teachings and different versions of the bible within the same religion? Some bibles have more 'books' than others. And why is there an Old Testiment and a New Testiment? Why did man need a new version? That is what is baffling to me.
Edited by Murphy 2013-12-18 8:23 AM
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Googly Goo
Posts: 7053
| Murphy - 2013-12-18 8:17 AM TXBO - 2013-12-18 9:03 AM Anniemae - 2013-12-17 11:59 PM TXBO - 2013-12-17 7:11 PM angel123 - 2013-12-17 7:53 PM
ETA - this was meant to quote TXBO's question to me :)
That the Bible is a sole source of Authority, which leaves every man up for his own interpretation of it, or following the interpretation of the denomination they are already in all which disaggree on what it actually means. I do believe the Bible to be authoratative and correct (though there are bad translations), but not exhaustive. Our belief in Sola Scriptura does not mean that everyone can interprete Scripture in their own way. It means that we believe the Scriptures to be the complete truth. No one can add to it. No one can subtract from it. All Church teachings and doctrine must be consistent with Scripture.
What confuses me with your statement is if that the Scripture is supposed to be the complete truth and that All Church teaching and doctrines must be consistent with the Scripture, then why are there different teachings and different versions of the bible within the same religion? Some bibles have more 'books' than others. And why is there an Old Testiment and a New Testiment? Why did man need a new version? That is what is baffling to me.
Murphy, I really don't know why he said that. How somebody was raised is not as important as where they are going. | |
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 Dr. Ruth
Posts: 9891
Location: Blissfully happy Giants fan!!! | mtcanchazer - 2013-12-17 10:35 PM What an interesting question. I, personally, don't have a large knowledge of science beyond biology and basic science. I was home schooled, using a Christian based learning program, so pretty much all the science I had had a Christian base with God at the core.
I don't think I can honestly say science, one way or the other, has had an impact on how or why I believe. I believe because I know I am a sinner in need of God's love and mercy and I need His Son, Jesus, to save me. I need the Bible because it shows me the path to eternal life. Perhaps the Bible has been misinterpreted over the years, but it is still here in our every day life and I think still has the same priniciples at play as the original translations. I pray because I want what is best for those I love, and I know God knows what is best for them. And I pray because I want to know what God's will and purpose is for my life, and I want that connectiong with God. Life isn't easy, and I don't think I could make it through without God or His Son or His Word. I'm lost a lot of the times (and I know I would be really lost without God), but God gives me His peace. I know I'm not one of the smartest or wisest people out there in regards to the Bible or God or any other subject, so I know I don't always understand, but everything will be revealed in God's time. LadyJockey on here, with her posts with her takes on Bible verses has inspired me greatly and give me new insight.
I don't know if anything makes me believe beyond the fact of needing to. God gives us a choice to believe or not, so I guess I choose to.
I have to agree with another poster, that I think this question is the work of God because He is being talked about!
Merry Christmas!
This. I have believed in God but did not really look to him until I moved to Texas. He called me to be a better Christian. I am not going to dive into this but I have a unique situation with going to church. But we have found a church that we truly enjoy. I will say without a doubt they have done and said some things that I 100% do not agree with but my church is only about preaching the word and everything comes from that. We dive into Scripture every wednesday for a deep discussion and on sunday it is a little lighter but still only about the Word.
I will say my preacher tells us that to be a Christian in God's eyes you need to do three things (he has a three legged stool for the analogy): read the word, fellowship with other Christians, and pray. In my mind the fellowship is why it is important to go to Church. The other two things are on your time.
I fall short on all three things. I know I do. But I say the sinners prayer all of the time and I ask God to stay beside me and lead the way. I think that is all any of us can do.
To the OP's question, I think when I really started having a relationship wtih God, I had a calling inside of me to do so. I agree wtih a lot of people in that you seek him and you trust him that he is there for you. It is called Grace. | |
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 Voice of Reason
Location: NOT at Wal Mart | I wonder what the women Ariel Castro held captive raped and tortured for over 10 yrs believe. I see so much suffering, little children, animals...... Prayers going unanswered..... I wonder myself.
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Midget Lover
Location: Kentucky | justcruzin - 2013-12-18 9:32 AM I wonder what the women Ariel Castro held captive raped and tortured for over 10 yrs believe. I see so much suffering, little children, animals...... Prayers going unanswered..... I wonder myself.
Good questions. I think about this all the time. Why do I have a bed to sleep in at night, while there are small children homeless? Or being beaten? Endless questions. | |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | Murphy - 2013-12-18 8:39 AM justcruzin - 2013-12-18 9:32 AM I wonder what the women Ariel Castro held captive raped and tortured for over 10 yrs believe. I see so much suffering, little children, animals...... Prayers going unanswered..... I wonder myself.
Good questions. I think about this all the time. Why do I have a bed to sleep in at night, while there are small children homeless? Or being beaten? Endless questions.
This is one of many reasons I am an agnostic.
God is supposed to be all powerful, and all good. However, the earth tries to kill us in a myriad of ways.... so both of these cannot be true (in my mind) | |
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