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| barreldude - 2014-01-08 9:45 PM
I read the first page only, but you said Most,which leads people to think....ummm, Most....I disagree because the 3D is the hardest to win because MOST horses run in it...LOLÂ
Im sorry but most horses aren't properly ridden or trained... |
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My mind still works
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| Itsme - 2014-01-08 9:49 PM barreldude - 2014-01-08 9:45 PM I read the first page only, but you said Most,which leads people to think....ummm, Most....I disagree because the 3D is the hardest to win because MOST horses run in it...LOL Im sorry but most horses aren't properly ridden or trained...
We've all bought a bred out the A horse that didn't make it. Some are better hands than some others- true- but it still falls back on the horse too |
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 Best of the Badlands
Location: You never know where I will show up...... | I don't agree. My husband has got 2 horses here that will run the prettiest patterns all day long and not be able to clock out of the 3D. And they are doing the best they can do. His mare has been bottom 2D a couple times but that is on her absolute best day. I don't care who rides them, they just aren't capable of going any faster than they already go.
Edited by rockinas 2014-01-08 10:05 PM
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Expert
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| barreldude - 2014-01-08 9:53 PM
Itsme - 2014-01-08 9:49 PM barreldude - 2014-01-08 9:45 PM I read the first page only, but you said Most,which leads people to think....ummm, Most....I disagree because the 3D is the hardest to win because MOST horses run in it...LOLÂ Im sorry but most horses aren't properly ridden or trained...
Agreed and I welcome all the thoughts and opinions on this. I figured I would just stir the pot a little and have some fun, it looks like I have some people that agree with me and a few more closet fans but most are on the other side.
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Best of the Badlands
Location: You never know where I will show up...... | barreldude - 2014-01-08 9:53 PM Itsme - 2014-01-08 9:49 PM barreldude - 2014-01-08 9:45 PM I read the first page only, but you said Most,which leads people to think....ummm, Most....I disagree because the 3D is the hardest to win because MOST horses run in it...LOL Im sorry but most horses aren't properly ridden or trained...
That's where we are at on Brett's two horses....they both flunked out for me, when I was prepping them for futurities. They are both very well bred....one's Frenchmans Guy & First Down Dash....he tries so hard but bless his heart his legs move fast but his body doesn't. The Royal Quick Dash mare he's got came off the track. She couldn't run there either but she tries. He has a lot of fun on them at the barrel races. He also shoots off of both of them too, and they are both actually high level shooting horses! But that's a totally different ballgame than barrel racing is. They are both super nice horses in their own way so I guess they don't all have to be 1D or 2D horses to make someone happy and go have fun with. |
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| rockinas - 2014-01-08 10:04 PM
I don't agree. My husband has got 2 horses here that will run the prettiest patterns all day long and not be able to clock out of the 3D. And they are doing the best they can do. His mare has been bottom 2D a couple times but that is on her absolute best day.  I don't care who rides them, they just aren't capable of going any faster than they already go.Â
Firewater Finale looks amazing! |
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 BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | Itsme - 2014-01-08 9:49 PM barreldude - 2014-01-08 9:45 PM I read the first page only, but you said Most,which leads people to think....ummm, Most....I disagree because the 3D is the hardest to win because MOST horses run in it...LOL Im sorry but most horses aren't properly ridden or trained...
I was thinking along the same lines. I guess I might insert the word "optimally" rather than "properly". I was thinking quarterhorses as well, not the other breeds. If an average QH with good conformation is really started with an excellent foundation, in terms of basic horsemanship and skills (ie: collection, handle, balance, bend, etc....) and then gets a good rider to pattern on, there's a pretty good chance that he can run at the top of the 2D. I obviously am not in a position to say with any authority, but that's how I see it. I guess what we are really talking about is if excellent training as a youngster and, later on, good, proper pattern work with a good jockey can make up for not having that highly sought after breeding. Good topic. |
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Pig-Bear Dog Lover
| Itsme - 2014-01-08 11:13 AM
Am I the only one who truly believes most horses with proper training and a competent jockey have the potential to be 2D? Im talking about sound, sane horses in their prime, not injured horses or horses that are 22 yo.
Ive seen a horse that was pulled off a dude ranch and he ran a tenth off an arena record and Ive seen plenty of ranch horses trained and running hard 1D-2D times.
Whats your thoughts on this?
I agree 100% |
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I AM being nice
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Location: MD | I agree that most horses that we see are not running to their fullest potential, even when well started, trained and ridden by good hands. There are those people who can really get deep inside a horse and teach them to use themselves in a way that allows you to get every ounce of ability out of one. Most cannot. The other thing to remember is that when you have a horse using themselves in that manner, it takes a toll on them. I had a great little mare that just should never have been a barrel horse. She was built decently enough, she was intelligent enough, but barrel racing was certainly not what the breeding of this mare intended. Unfortunately for her, she ended up residing at my house and eating on my payroll, so she got patterned anyway.
She ended up being a decent local 2D horse. At a salty barrel race, she'd get you a 3D check. I remember having her with me while at a friend's house, who is also a trainer. We were riding one day, I sitting on said mare and I was saying how she was my favorite horse in the barn. He laughed and asked me how a little runt who couldn't outrun the 3D could be my favorite. She was my favorite because she was dead honest and above all she tried her little guts out. When you sent her up the alley, she gave you her life. She never set a foot wrong. She pushed her body to it's limits to get to the top of the 3D in good company.
Some of them can be given every advantage and just never amount to greatness in the pen. I'd still take a barn full of that mare over something that could either win it, or cheat me any day. |
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 Goat Giver
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| rockinas - 2014-01-08 10:04 PM I don't agree. My husband has got 2 horses here that will run the prettiest patterns all day long and not be able to clock out of the 3D. And they are doing the best they can do. His mare has been bottom 2D a couple times but that is on her absolute best day. I don't care who rides them, they just aren't capable of going any faster than they already go.
Agree 100%. Stacy's Grasshopper fell into this category........I thought when I was starting him, he would be one of the great ones. WELL, he was great, just not a 1D horse. He did fall into the 1 or 2 D on occasion if the big dogs hit a barrel or stayed home.....
We have ridden some horses on the ranch that probably could not have even been 5D horses. They were bred for good feet, and the ability to stay fat on rocks. They would not have had the capability to run any farther than to catch a wooly sheep if their life depended on it. |
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 I Want a "MAN"
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Location: MD | Next time you go to a barrel race with each rider imagine how much different that run would be if LG were riding that same horse.
Edited by CE's wrapn3 2014-01-09 7:12 AM
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 You get what you give
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Location: Texas | Itsme - 2014-01-08 9:40 PM
casualdust07 - 2014-01-08 9:26 PM Okay so saying the training and jockey are competent- across the board- and you pick a bunch of random average horses in their prime and put them through the ringer, do I believe most would be 2D caliber? No. There are way too many factors that make a horse what it is. Some people are REALLY good at picking prospects and are equally good at training them, so they may make it look like any horse they pick up can become nice. However, what they are doing is weeding through all the ones that they chose not to buy, or not to train, so the ones that you end up seeing compete are the ones that made their cut. My other thought is, 2D where? arena record where? Any arena can have an arena record. That is really relative to who is putting on the race, how many people are entering the race, and who is entering the race. people also can have their bubbles of comfort of where they go. you might be the big fish in a small pond, and never leave the pond to see how big the fish are in the ocean. It's pretty well understood that the difficulty of getting int he 2D can change from race to race depending on the added money and number of entries.
 The dude ranch horse I mentioned in my original post was running against 1 2013 NFR horse thats LOVED on here and a couple futurity winning horses too. We know who is fast and who isnt.
that is my point. when you say so and so broke an arena record, you have to say more than that. Or people will then ask you for the specifics
Edited by casualdust07 2014-01-09 7:23 AM
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You get what you give
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Location: Texas | I do agree with you in the fact that there are a lot of horses who are not ridden to their potential, or exercised and are in their best physical condition. But I also get a little uncomfortable about saying that most horses at the barrel race aren't being ridden the right way, like, who am I to judge? |
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Expert
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| CE's wrapn3 - 2014-01-09 7:07 AM
Next time you go to a barrel race with each rider imagine how much different that run would be if LG were riding that same horse.Â
Or any of the top WPRA girls. |
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Extreme Veteran
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| CE's wrapn3 - 2014-01-09 5:07 AM
Next time you go to a barrel race with each rider imagine how much different that run would be if LG were riding that same horse.Â
Who is LG? |
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 Undercover Amish Mafia Member
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Location: Kansas | Soooo if I pull my neighbors donkey out of the pasture and run him on the pattern....does that mean he'll be a 2D donkey?? I mean he's sound, and sane LOL |
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Undercover Amish Mafia Member
Posts: 9992
Location: Kansas | 3 To Go - 2014-01-09 4:02 PM CE's wrapn3 - 2014-01-09 5:07 AM Next time you go to a barrel race with each rider imagine how much different that run would be if LG were riding that same horse. Who is LG?
Lance Graves |
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Expert
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| hoofs_in_motion - 2014-01-09 4:05 PM
Soooo if I pull my neighbors donkey out of the pasture and run him on the pattern....does that mean he'll be a 2D donkey?? I mean he's sound, and sane LOLÂ
FG or DTF donk cross= Fo sho!
Edited by Itsme 2014-01-09 4:41 PM
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 Sexy Bee Yacht
Posts: 5849
Location: WA | I didn't read all the reponses but I don't think they all could be. I had a paint mare that tried her heart out and she thought she was wining every time out and wasn't more than a 4D horse. She was great for beginners and I can throw anyone on her. But she isn't built for it and just isn't quick. |
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Sexy Bee Yacht
Posts: 5849
Location: WA | bennie1 - 2014-01-08 6:56 PM The system is also flooded with diesel pickups. Why, one might ask? Because they are the right tool for the job. Certain bloodlines are proven to replicate certain traits with consistancy. Then the people to whom these traits are desirable seek out these bloodlines creating a market that follows the laws of supply and demand. The cutters aren't buying up Storm Cats to take to the cutting pen. Breeding tells in horses, dogs and women....LOL,
A Storm Cat horse almost sent me to the hospital (It should have, but I didn't want to sit in the waiting room). So no way in hell am I riding a Storm Cat horse again. Lol. Is that unfair to all of them? Yes. Do I care? No.  |
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