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The Resident Destroyer of Liberal Logic
  
Location: PNW | Kaitlyn19 - 2014-01-20 9:52 PM
svincent - 2014-01-20 9:39 PM
LIVE2RUN - 2014-01-20 4:25 PM
svincent - 2014-01-20 2:04 PM
LIVE2RUN - 2014-01-20 2:45 PM
Gunner11 - 2014-01-20 1:30 PM
LIVE2RUN - 2014-01-20 2:14 PM
svincent - 2014-01-20 12:34 PM
cheryl makofka - 2014-01-20 1:33 PM
LIVE2RUN - 2014-01-20 1:19 PM
svincent - 2014-01-20 11:29 AM
casualdust07 - 2014-01-20 11:56 AM
Runnin < C > - 2014-01-20 11:53 AM
svincent - 2014-01-20 11:41 AM LIVE2RUN - 2014-01-20 11:32 AM Reading threw these posts confuse me. A Paint is a COLOR not a BREED...... Just like Palominos....a color not a breed.... False... The American Paint Horse IS A BREED. Palomino is a color, buckskin is a color, dun is a color, brown is a color. Paint is a breed. A breed is any group of animals with a homogenous, regular phenotype/genotype. If you breed two paints, you are going to get a paint (exceptions for the crop out/plain marked ) - if you breed two palominos, you might get one, you might not. There are crop out QHs also that have "excessive white" - there are the oddballs in every group - but I assure you, the APH is most definitely its own specific breed. Correct, Paint is a breed. Not a color.
which is why they allow solid paints to be registered… LOL.
Exactly.lol
Hmm, I still don't agree...if you have two quarter horses, you breed them and you get a colored horse...what is the horse? If you have two Arabians you breed them and you get a colored horse, what is the horse? I guess I just don't see a "paint" as a breed. I see it as a color....I understand that the AQHA won't register a horse of color thus the APHA was formed...
I believe if you breed 2 Arabians and got coloured, they would still be registered Arabian color would be pinto
YES!
The color would be classed as a Pinto but the breed an Arabian....???
This is a direct quote from the Pinto Association website:
"A frequently asked question about the Pinto is “what’s the difference between an American Paint horse and a Pinto horse?” American Paint horses are limited to registered bloodlines of Paint, American Quarter Horse and Thoroughbred horses, whereas the Pinto can be from an array of bloodlines including the Arabian, American Saddlebred, American Miniature Horse, Tennessee Walking Horse and American Shetland Pony to name a few. The PtHA does not accept Appaloosa, Draft or Mule breedings and/or characteristics, except for non-characteristic Appaloosa geldings."
The term "pinto" is used to describe a coat pattern. The term "paint" is in reference to the breed, although most people refer to ANY colored horse as a paint, whether it is registered or not.
I totally understand the Pinto Association. It's when people say I own a Paint...okay great what kind? This is how I see it...you can have a Paint (colored horse ) from any "bloodline" (breed ) its the "associations" that define what you have....lol!
When people say they have a paint, but really they have a pinto patterned Arabian - it is out of ignorance. If somebody has a pinto colored horse of any breeding other than APHA recognized lineage - it is a pinto, not a Paint. Paint is a breed, pinto is a term uses to describe the color pattern. Again, this is why solid paints can be registered.
IT'S ABOUT GENETICS AND DNA, not just about what you see with your eyes!
I guess I just won't ever see it that way. Two registered AQHA horses that have a foal and it happens to come out colored is a Paint? Hmm...I see the horse as a quarter horse that the AQHA won't register, thus it's now a APHA quarter horse..but still a quarter horse. I call those quarter horse Paint....
It's not really a question of how a person sees it. Paint is a breed - scientific fact. And AQHA changed that rule years ago.
If it helps horse monopoly recognizes Paint as a breed :P
There's not much to argue about after learning Monopoly's official position on the matter. ;) | |
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 Toy Story Fanatic
Posts: 4148
 
Location: Oregon | Runnin < C > - 2014-01-20 9:53 AM svincent - 2014-01-20 11:41 AM LIVE2RUN - 2014-01-20 11:32 AM Reading threw these posts confuse me. A Paint is a COLOR not a BREED...... Just like Palominos....a color not a breed.... False... The American Paint Horse IS A BREED. Palomino is a color, buckskin is a color, dun is a color, brown is a color. Paint is a breed. A breed is any group of animals with a homogenous, regular phenotype/genotype. If you breed two paints, you are going to get a paint (exceptions for the crop out/plain marked ) - if you breed two palominos, you might get one, you might not. There are crop out QHs also that have "excessive white" - there are the oddballs in every group - but I assure you, the APH is most definitely its own specific breed. Correct, Paint is a breed. Not a color.
Paint is a breed...however in order to be registered paint they have to be ONLY quarter horse or thoroughbred. Pinto is just a color registry...any breed or mutt type. | |
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 Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | Honeymoney - 2014-01-20 4:21 PM When you go to a barrel race of any size I bet that at least 1/3 of the horses there are solid color paints.
I've got 2. They look like QHs. They have QH bloodlines. You can't tell the difference between them and my AQHA horses, but they are solid paints. One is eligible for the new incentive, because he had colored parents; the other is not because she's the product of a QH x solid paint mating. Ironically, the mare has way more white than the gelding, just not enough to qualify for regular papers. | |
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| APHA MISSION STATEMENT has always called APHA a breed organization .....>>>>
Mission Statement
Our mission is to collect, record and preserve the pedigrees of American
Paint Horses and to stimulate and regulate all matters that pertain to the
promotion, history, breeding and exhibition of this breed.
Our success depends upon our ability to provide fiscally responsible and
efficient services to our members.
We aspire to excellence in record keeping, reporting, recruiting,
educating and supporting our membership, so that we may inspire
confidence and create in them a desire to use our services.
We serve both the breed and our members by being ever aware of the
industry and market, and of the needs, opportunities and challenges of our
members
But the problems is in their rules they revert to a colored horse association with limitations and restrictions on horses that are registered paints. You can tell without asking if they own or have ever owned a horse or competed in a horse event because of the stupid way rules are written and expressed.
This is on Page 9-10 of the proposed rule changes at the 2014 convention for Barrel racing pattern ... these fools have no idea how to show the measurements on the pattern or having a clear approach zone prior to the start/finish line//timers ...... guess they watched the pattern at the NFR with its 12 ft inset ..... ... lol ...
http://www.apha.com/docs/default-source/rules/2013-rule-change-prop...
The more familiar you get with APHA rules the more aware you will be of the oxymoron rules you will see implemented by these morons ........
ANOTHER BASIC MORON DECISION:
The 2014 APHA RULE BOOK WILL NOT BE PRINTED BUT YOU CAN DOWNLOAD TO YOUR PHONE ONLY ....
( this was not a cost savings move .... they have started two of the dumbest new magazines you have ever seen along with the Paint Journal and a monthly paint magazine and put the Racing Journal on the internet duhhhh) this is 4 printed magazines!!
Edited by BARRELHORSE USA 2014-01-20 11:00 PM
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 Chicken Chick
Posts: 3562
Location: Texas | Kaitlyn19 - 2014-01-20 9:52 PM svincent - 2014-01-20 9:39 PM LIVE2RUN - 2014-01-20 4:25 PM svincent - 2014-01-20 2:04 PM LIVE2RUN - 2014-01-20 2:45 PM Gunner11 - 2014-01-20 1:30 PM LIVE2RUN - 2014-01-20 2:14 PM svincent - 2014-01-20 12:34 PM cheryl makofka - 2014-01-20 1:33 PM LIVE2RUN - 2014-01-20 1:19 PM svincent - 2014-01-20 11:29 AM casualdust07 - 2014-01-20 11:56 AM Runnin < C > - 2014-01-20 11:53 AM svincent - 2014-01-20 11:41 AM LIVE2RUN - 2014-01-20 11:32 AM Reading threw these posts confuse me. A Paint is a COLOR not a BREED...... Just like Palominos....a color not a breed.... False... The American Paint Horse IS A BREED. Palomino is a color, buckskin is a color, dun is a color, brown is a color. Paint is a breed. A breed is any group of animals with a homogenous, regular phenotype/genotype. If you breed two paints, you are going to get a paint (exceptions for the crop out/plain marked ) - if you breed two palominos, you might get one, you might not. There are crop out QHs also that have "excessive white" - there are the oddballs in every group - but I assure you, the APH is most definitely its own specific breed. Correct, Paint is a breed. Not a color. which is why they allow solid paints to be registered… LOL. Exactly.lol Hmm, I still don't agree...if you have two quarter horses, you breed them and you get a colored horse...what is the horse? If you have two Arabians you breed them and you get a colored horse, what is the horse? I guess I just don't see a "paint" as a breed. I see it as a color....I understand that the AQHA won't register a horse of color thus the APHA was formed... I believe if you breed 2 Arabians and got coloured, they would still be registered Arabian color would be pinto YES! The color would be classed as a Pinto but the breed an Arabian....??? This is a direct quote from the Pinto Association website: "A frequently asked question about the Pinto is “what’s the difference between an American Paint horse and a Pinto horse?” American Paint horses are limited to registered bloodlines of Paint, American Quarter Horse and Thoroughbred horses, whereas the Pinto can be from an array of bloodlines including the Arabian, American Saddlebred, American Miniature Horse, Tennessee Walking Horse and American Shetland Pony to name a few. The PtHA does not accept Appaloosa, Draft or Mule breedings and/or characteristics, except for non-characteristic Appaloosa geldings." The term "pinto" is used to describe a coat pattern. The term "paint" is in reference to the breed, although most people refer to ANY colored horse as a paint, whether it is registered or not. I totally understand the Pinto Association. It's when people say I own a Paint...okay great what kind? This is how I see it...you can have a Paint (colored horse ) from any "bloodline" (breed ) its the "associations" that define what you have....lol! When people say they have a paint, but really they have a pinto patterned Arabian - it is out of ignorance. If somebody has a pinto colored horse of any breeding other than APHA recognized lineage - it is a pinto, not a Paint. Paint is a breed, pinto is a term uses to describe the color pattern. Again, this is why solid paints can be registered. IT'S ABOUT GENETICS AND DNA, not just about what you see with your eyes! I guess I just won't ever see it that way. Two registered AQHA horses that have a foal and it happens to come out colored is a Paint? Hmm...I see the horse as a quarter horse that the AQHA won't register, thus it's now a APHA quarter horse..but still a quarter horse. I call those quarter horse Paint.... It's not really a question of how a person sees it. Paint is a breed - scientific fact. And AQHA changed that rule years ago. If it helps horse monopoly recognizes Paint as a breed :P
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Veteran
Posts: 185
| Just my thoughts but a quarter horse has the potential either to be also registered APHA or its offspring could be registered APHA (more options). Where as a APHA horse's offspring cannot be AQHA registered.
When I was shopping I looked at both AQHA and APHA registered horses (including solid breds). However I could tell I preferred to get an AQHA. Perhapes because the registry is larger? There are also more AQHA shows in my area. Also as pointed out they are (can be) more marketable for resale. | |
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 Expert
Posts: 1664
Location: iowa | the best horse we ever owned...and the only paint..we so regret selling him and if i could find him, i would buy him back in a minute..even tho he would be 24 this year....
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 Looking For Fun!
Posts: 4067
Location: Feeding those that need me | Three 4 Luck - 2014-01-20 10:44 PM
Honeymoney - 2014-01-20 4:21 PM When you go to a barrel race of any size I bet that at least 1/3 of the horses there are solid color paints.
I've got 2. They look like QHs. They have QH bloodlines. You can't tell the difference between them and my AQHA horses, but they are solid paints. One is eligible for the new incentive, because he had colored parents; the other is not because she's the product of a QH x solid paint mating. Ironically, the mare has way more white than the gelding, just not enough to qualify for regular papers.
As long as they were born before 2013, they are both eligible. APHA changed the rule this week. As of now, all APHA registered horses born before 2013 are eligible for PBRIP money regardless of parentage. | |
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Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | GhostDancer - 2014-01-21 10:30 AM Three 4 Luck - 2014-01-20 10:44 PM Honeymoney - 2014-01-20 4:21 PM When you go to a barrel race of any size I bet that at least 1/3 of the horses there are solid color paints. I've got 2. They look like QHs. They have QH bloodlines. You can't tell the difference between them and my AQHA horses, but they are solid paints. One is eligible for the new incentive, because he had colored parents; the other is not because she's the product of a QH x solid paint mating. Ironically, the mare has way more white than the gelding, just not enough to qualify for regular papers. As long as they were born before 2013, they are both eligible. APHA changed the rule this week. As of now, all APHA registered horses born before 2013 are eligible for PBRIP money regardless of parentage.
Oh cool, I didn't know that! She's a 2010, so we're good. Thanks for letting me know. | |
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 Lady Di
Posts: 21556
Location: Oklahoma | spitzh - 2014-01-20 2:26 PM
Around here paints are not know to be successful in the barrel pen. I do see alot in reining and roping but I can honestly say Ive never seen a nice barrel racing paint. The ones Ive seen are a pain in the a** and do not run that great. I personally am not a fan of the paint look, I like the plain old sorrels.
Charmayne James made it to the NFR on a paint named Magic, Kim West made it to the NFR on a black and white paint...I think his name was TBar....both of them were COLORED paints...there are some others that have made it on solid paints, but I can't remember their names right now. | |
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Lady Di
Posts: 21556
Location: Oklahoma | CowgirlLindz - 2014-01-21 8:04 AM
Just my thoughts but a quarter horse has the potential either to be also registered APHA or its offspring could be registered APHA (more options). Where as a APHA horse's offspring cannot be AQHA registered.
When I was shopping I looked at both AQHA and APHA registered horses (including solid breds). However I could tell I preferred to get an AQHA. Perhapes because the registry is larger? There are also more AQHA shows in my area. Also as pointed out they are (can be) more marketable for resale.
A quarter horse cannot be registered APHA. That changed in 2008, I believe (maybe 2006). My memory's not what it used to be. They must have one paint parent in order to qualify for APHA registration. If they are a cropout now, they are registered with AQHA and have "excessive white" on their papers. They CANNOT be registered APHA. | |
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 You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | dianeguinn - 2014-01-21 10:51 AM
CowgirlLindz - 2014-01-21 8:04 AM
Just my thoughts but a quarter horse has the potential either to be also registered APHA or its offspring could be registered APHA (more options). Where as a APHA horse's offspring cannot be AQHA registered.
When I was shopping I looked at both AQHA and APHA registered horses (including solid breds). However I could tell I preferred to get an AQHA. Perhapes because the registry is larger? There are also more AQHA shows in my area. Also as pointed out they are (can be) more marketable for resale.
A quarter horse cannot be registered APHA. That changed in 2008, I believe (maybe 2006 ). My memory's not what it used to be. They must have one paint parent in order to qualify for APHA registration. If they are a cropout now, they are registered with AQHA and have "excessive white" on their papers. They CANNOT be registered APHA.
^^this is correct! | |
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 Ms Bling Bling Sleeze Kitty
Posts: 20917
Location: LouLouVille, OK | I had paints back in the day..and for awhile there, alot of people bred for color... not bone, not brains, not anything other then color... so for awhile I think Paints got a bad rap for poor breeding choices...
I am not opposed to a nice paint, Im actually a sucker for a well made paint (or QH)
(I haven't read all the responses either, this may have already been said) | |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 823
Location: East Texas | I don't know squat about paint blood lines. So what are some of the good bloodlines y'all talk about. What about good paint blood lines in other disciplines? All I know is that I have a paint and he had APHA points at some time in his life. But the only thing that really matters to me is that he is good with my daughter. Also, if I wanted to get involved with APHA events, how would I need to go about doing that? | |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 1066
| dianeguinn - 2014-01-21 9:48 AM spitzh - 2014-01-20 2:26 PM Around here paints are not know to be successful in the barrel pen. I do see alot in reining and roping but I can honestly say Ive never seen a nice barrel racing paint. The ones Ive seen are a pain in the a** and do not run that great. I personally am not a fan of the paint look, I like the plain old sorrels. Charmayne James made it to the NFR on a paint named Magic, Kim West made it to the NFR on a black and white paint...I think his name was TBar....both of them were COLORED paints...there are some others that have made it on solid paints, but I can't remember their names right now.
I believe Lee Ann Rust's gelding "Harley" is also registed as a Paint. | |
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 Dancing in my Mind
Posts: 3062
Location: Eastern OH but my heart is in WV | Everyone can just send me all their paints and appaloosas!!! 
Edited by Rolling J 2014-01-21 11:31 AM
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 Zeal Queen
Posts: 3826
Location: TEXAS | Runnin < C > - 2014-01-19 8:40 PM Unfortunately they are a lot harder to sell... especially solid paint breds.
I actually prefer the solids, with a blaze and 4 high socks!  | |
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Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | slacy09 - 2014-01-21 1:01 PM Runnin < C > - 2014-01-19 8:40 PM Unfortunately they are a lot harder to sell... especially solid paint breds. I actually prefer the solids, with a blaze and 4 high socks!
You'd love my girl then. She has a pretty chin spot to go with it.  | |
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 Keep those crap slapping tails away!
Posts: 8871
Location: Around here somewhere... | AllAroundRider - 2014-01-19 5:46 PM
I have heard this a lot but not sure I have ever really seen proof of it although I think people can be more critical of paint stallions than a QH stallion bred almost identical with the same race/produce record because people will claim someone is only breeding to the paint for the color. I know some people just plain do not like a colored horse whether from old wives tales (they are all broncs, terrible feet, spooky, etc.) or from the fact white is a pain to keep clean. I have owned and do own several paints and I can't say I would value them any higher or lower than the QH's I have had.
I have heard this a lot, too- but in my own experience, I get better prices for Paints, Pintos, & Appaloosas (whether solid or colored) & they sell a lot faster. I suppose it depends on your area, and of course it depends on a horse's training, too. I agree with this comment about Paint stallions- same for Appy stallions. | |
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 Expert
Posts: 1430
Location: Montana | GhostDancer - 2014-01-21 9:30 AM
Three 4 Luck - 2014-01-20 10:44 PM
Honeymoney - 2014-01-20 4:21 PM When you go to a barrel race of any size I bet that at least 1/3 of the horses there are solid color paints.
I've got 2. They look like QHs. They have QH bloodlines. You can't tell the difference between them and my AQHA horses, but they are solid paints. One is eligible for the new incentive, because he had colored parents; the other is not because she's the product of a QH x solid paint mating. Ironically, the mare has way more white than the gelding, just not enough to qualify for regular papers.
As long as they were born before 2013, they are both eligible. APHA changed the rule this week. As of now, all APHA registered horses born before 2013 are eligible for PBRIP money regardless of parentage.
Really? Why? That's disappointing. (Sorry to those individual owners that it helped - I am happy for you.)
Did they change the stakes rules for racing and that affected the Barrel incentive or were the changes just made for the Barrel incentive?
To clarify, I was hoping to see the APHA's barrel incentive work out to be an incentive that would help those of us raising good old colored Paints to market our colts. If this requirement is dropped, it will help people selling finished barrel horses but I don't see it helping breeders. That's discouraging because it seems like the APHA was finally going to help us a little . . . .
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