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Posts: 559
  
| I am going to see if they can order it for me when I go in there :) I hope they can!! |
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  A Lady with Fight
Posts: 2701
    Location: NC | Buckeye is a GREAT feed company too. If you can try them, they're worth it.
But you need to be careful switching feeds around so often. It's not good for them. Their bodies get used to one thing then it's switched to another.
I love TC Senior and never had an issue with any horse wanting to eat it.
20-23% is the normal range for the 'traditional' pelleted feeds, so it's not crazy. It when you start getting into sweet feeds (oats and corn) that the NSC shoots up. Corn can add up to 10-20% more just on it's own.
I found a local mill that makes a Senior feed a lot like TC. It does have oats and barley added so it's a little high NSC (21%) but that won't hurt my lazy horses. They need a little starch. As long as you're riding regularly &/or she's turned out a lot, she should be fine. |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 559
  
| I know switching feeds too often is not good . I don't switch every week .. I am mailing sure that if I do decide to switch it will be for long term. The only thing with buckeyes feeds i didnt like was the low fiber content in the cadence feeds. I guess cadence ultra isnt too bad @ 14%... I might price it out but if its more than TC I will stick with the TC . I could try soaking the TC senior too.. See if that doesn't make her like it more. She just ate the ultium so readily , never stopped until it was gone. On the senior, she doesn't readily eat it. She could care less if she got it or not . She eats it when it's in there for a while, but if you want her to eat it right away , won't happen. I know she just doesn't like something about it. She takes a bite & shakes her head up @ down like she doesn't like it but eats it anyways . My other horses love the stuff .. I wish she did too , but she just doesn't . I could try wetting it or adding something to it to make her like it more, but idk what I could add . |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 559
  
| I also feed beet pulp . Not much though . Just a quarter scoop morning & night. Another reason I know she doesn't like the TC senior is , when I feed her the beet pulp plain , she loves it. If I mix it with a little bit of a different feed, she loves it.. But when I mix it with TC senior she immediately knows it & doesn't readily eat it .. So idk why she can't like the TC senior :( bc it sure is a good feed , & makes my life simple by feeding them all the same thing . But she has to be difficult lol maybe I should just go back go ultium ... Even though its 50 cents more a bag than TC & not even a fixed formula .. So I wanted to avoid that idea lol |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
    Location: Midwest | Fancy Lass - 2014-01-30 12:03 PM
I know switching feeds too often is not good . I don't switch every week .. I am mailing sure that if I do decide to switch it will be for long term. The only thing with buckeyes feeds i didnt like was the low fiber content in the cadence feeds. I guess cadence ultra isnt too bad @ 14%... I might price it out but if its more than TC I will stick with the TC . I could try soaking the TC senior too.. See if that doesn't make her like it more. She just ate the ultium so readily , never stopped until it was gone. On the senior, she doesn't readily eat it. She could care less if she got it or not . She eats it when it's in there for a while, but if you want her to eat it right away , won't happen. I know she just doesn't like something about it. She takes a bite & shakes her head up @ down like she doesn't like it but eats it anyways . My other horses love the stuff .. I wish she did too , but she just doesn't . I could try wetting it or adding something to it to make her like it more, but idk what I could add .
applesauce |
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  A Lady with Fight
Posts: 2701
    Location: NC | Try soaking it.
You may have said this already, but have you treated for ulcers?
We had a mare that would act like she had colic when she ate dry feed. Was cinchy. Hateful. But was fine when it was soaked. Put her on some ulcer stuff & she was fine. It was the weirdest symptom ever. |
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Posts: 559
  
| Yes, treating for ulcers right now. She's been on the meds two weeks & no change at all. I am going to try soaking it but I doubt it helps, but would be nice if it did ! |
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  More bootie than waist!
Posts: 18425
          Location: Riding Crackhead. | lookout hill - 2014-01-30 8:57 AM hoofs_in_motion - 2014-01-30 7:49 AM I personally like safechoice perform, it's a low starch grain.......I love it. My weanling was starting to get sunk in and looked terrible on the previous grain...I put her on this along with calf manna and she is filling out nicely. Plus my finished mare looks better than she ever has, and my coming 2 year has really filled out. I feed CM, and also a rice bran would probably benefit as well
Safechoice Perform
Guaranteed Analysis:
Crude Protein: 14.0%
Lysine: 0.80%
Methionine: 0.30%
Threonine: 0.50%
Crude Fat: 9.0%
Crude Fiber: (max. ) 15.0%
Dietary Starch: (max. ) 20.0%
Sugar: (max. ) 8.0%
Calcium: 0.90 - 1.20%
Phosphorus: 0.70%
Copper: 50 ppm
Zinc: 160 ppm
Selenium: 0.60 ppm
Vitamin A: 3,000 IU/lb
Vitamin D: 350 IU/lb
Vitamin E: 120 IU/lb
Biotin: 0.45 mg/lb
SafeChoice® Perform is a high fat, controlled starch formula, formulated with more energy from fat for performance and breeding horses and lactating mares.
- Helps take the worry out of feeding; controlled starch diets with added fat are widely recommended to help improve performance and reduce metabolic concerns
- Makes feeding convenient; it's scientifically balanced to meet the nutritional requirements of horses in all life stages, particularly those with higher energy or caloric requirements
- It's nutrition you can rely on as every bag of SafeChoice® Perform contains calorie-rich fats from vegetable oil, guaranteed amino acid levels to support muscle development and maintenance, plus added prebiotics and probiotics to aid in nutrient digestion
- Helps your horse make the most of every feeding; SafeChoice® Perform is pelleted to reduce sorting and enhance digestibility of the nutrients critical to a horse's health and performance
I feed this to my daughters hard keeper too with a flake of alfalfa a day & no other supplements. I was feeding Ultium & he did ok then switched to Omolene 400 & he quit eating. He loves the Perform & is doing great.
I feed the SafeChoice Sr to my 17 yr old gelding that requires a low starch feed. So far he looks real good. I'm anxious to start riding and see how he moves and feels IF it ever warms up and that's a big IF. I give him a little Calf manna with it. Once I start legging him up in the spring he'll get PP CJ. |
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  Keeper of the King Snake
Posts: 7616
    Location: Dubach, LA | For what it's worth, I talked to my vet about high fat feeds. He is an older man, race track vet, lameness specialist. He said that the high fat feeds were developed for endurance horses. He said that anything above 3% is just making expensive poop. I think he said that fat is the third source of energy for horses. They use carbs first and protein second. He said they metabolize fat differently from us. It takes more energy for them to use fat, if that makes sense to you. He said the perfect diet for any horse is oats and alfalfa and a little cracked corn. Substitute soybean meal for alfalfa if you have to but feed lots of good grass hay. I've switched all but my two colic prone SafeChoice horses to oats and soybean meal. I'll report how they do. |
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  More bootie than waist!
Posts: 18425
          Location: Riding Crackhead. | Fancy Lass - 2014-01-30 11:22 AM Ok :) I was wondering if it was all chalky like or not lol. All the nutrena feeds have high NSC % so I'm better off sticking with TC . I wanted to try the TC TLC for her bc it's similar to their senior but pelleted.. But of course my feed store doesn't carry it :( I think it would have been perfect for her too..
The Nutrena Safechoice feeds don't have high starch. Look at Sr and Special Care. |
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  Keeper of the King Snake
Posts: 7616
    Location: Dubach, LA | Am I in agreement with BARRELHORSE USA? The stars must be in some type of alignment. Everybody grab their tin foil hats to protect their brains. |
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 Ms. Poutability
Posts: 2362
      Location: In my own world | dme0324 - 2014-01-30 8:58 AM livinonlove&horses - 2014-01-30 8:35 AM BARRELHORSE USA - 2014-01-29 9:49 PM When you discover you are digging yourself into a hole ... you are supposed to stop and fill the hole back up with the dirt that came out of it ... lol Name one woman or health club food supplements that recommend you up your fat intake to turn it into muscle so you will return to being beautiful ..... pssssst ... fat is the reason you are working out to begin with ... so how do you eat more and turn it into muscle?? Choose any horse feed these two major mills make and find the actual ingredients that are in the pellets other than the generic names ... nutrients, amino acids, fat from vegetable oils, minerals ... all these are man made processed products and not in the form any type of grain ..... and formed into pellets with gluten from china ... Just watch the video and tell me if you hear any mention of oats, corn, alfalfa, hay or any other organic plant type sources for their feeds ... she sounds just like a fake dog rescue asking for donations .... lol ... http://www.nutrenaworld.com/products/horses/smart-grain-formulation... Do the same with any Purina product and you will find both companies are so evasive on what is actually in their feeds with a lot of marketing blah blah blah ... lol .. http://horse.purinamills.com/stellent/groups/public/@purinasites/do... You can hunt dig comb click scramble all you want to and you will NOT FIND THE INGREDIENTS in any of the products made by the two companies above ... just a lot of marketing blabbing ... I just made a statement on the sorry feeds horse owners are paying huge prices for and not even knowing what is in the feed .... .. you can add man made formulated processed crap to dog poop and make the analysis of it sound like it is a good food for your animals .. I dare you to post the INGREDIENTS of whatever feed you are feeding by scanning the tag and putting it here for everyone to see .... NOT THE ANALYSIS BUT THE INGREDIENTS ... and tell us what natural feed crop they are describing when using all of those the long words .... ******************************************************************* I will stay with Mother Nature's products of oats, corn, alfalfa and good hay and a minor mineral // vitamin //sodium supplement like GroStrong minerals .... and work out the amounts of each for a natural 14% feed .... Instead of waste products made from waste from human food or ethanol production ... I hope I saved at least one poor horse from their owner today ... lol ******************************************************************** Purina list the ingredients, actual name of stuff, on the bag. I can walk out to my barn and get a bag for you. Is it my fav feed, no but I know what's in it. Purina uses generic terms indicating a formula that is not fixed on a majority of their feeds.
I feed strategy healthy edge. And if u read the white tag on the bottom of the bag it says: wheat mids, alfalfa meal, ad soybean hulls are the first 3 ingredients and follows with the rest. Those aren't generic terms |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 559
  
| I don't think anyone is totally wrong .. Everyone has different opinions & they know what works & doesn't work for their horses. I appreciate all these opinions though :) I try to keep an open mind lol sometimes it's hard .. |
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  A Lady with Fight
Posts: 2701
    Location: NC | CanCan - 2014-01-30 1:54 PM For what it's worth, I talked to my vet about high fat feeds. He is an older man, race track vet, lameness specialist. He said that the high fat feeds were developed for endurance horses. He said that anything above 3% is just making expensive poop. I think he said that fat is the third source of energy for horses. They use carbs first and protein second. He said they metabolize fat differently from us. It takes more energy for them to use fat, if that makes sense to you. He said the perfect diet for any horse is oats and alfalfa and a little cracked corn. Substitute soybean meal for alfalfa if you have to but feed lots of good grass hay. I've switched all but my two colic prone SafeChoice horses to oats and soybean meal. I'll report how they do.
Him saying cracked corn is good for a horse makes me think that he hasn't read any new research in about 20 years on equine nutrition. There are just too many studies saying corn is BAD for any horse, especially any with joint issues. I won't ever feed it, regardless of how "natural" it is.
And oats in high amounts are also detrimental. Way too many carbs for most horses.
High fat is good for HARD KEEPERS and horses in highly demanding competitions. I feed my guys high fat because it keep their weight on in a very small amount. I can feed 6lbs a day and they stay nice and fat on it. Other people have to feed up to 10+lbs a day just to maintain their horse's condition.
To each their own. But high fat feeds have their place. |
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 Pork Fat is my Favorite
Posts: 3791
        Location: The Oklahoma plains. | hlynn - 2014-01-30 1:11 PM CanCan - 2014-01-30 1:54 PM For what it's worth, I talked to my vet about high fat feeds. He is an older man, race track vet, lameness specialist. He said that the high fat feeds were developed for endurance horses. He said that anything above 3% is just making expensive poop. I think he said that fat is the third source of energy for horses. They use carbs first and protein second. He said they metabolize fat differently from us. It takes more energy for them to use fat, if that makes sense to you. He said the perfect diet for any horse is oats and alfalfa and a little cracked corn. Substitute soybean meal for alfalfa if you have to but feed lots of good grass hay. I've switched all but my two colic prone SafeChoice horses to oats and soybean meal. I'll report how they do. Him saying cracked corn is good for a horse makes me think that he hasn't read any new research in about 20 years on equine nutrition. There are just too many studies saying corn is BAD for any horse, especially any with joint issues. I won't ever feed it, regardless of how "natural" it is.
And oats in high amounts are also detrimental. Way too many carbs for most horses.
High fat is good for HARD KEEPERS and horses in highly demanding competitions. I feed my guys high fat because it keep their weight on in a very small amount. I can feed 6lbs a day and they stay nice and fat on it. Other people have to feed up to 10+lbs a day just to maintain their horse's condition.
To each their own. But high fat feeds have their place.
There are hundreds and hundred of current champions of all breeds and events that currently eat corn. Even Amy Laymon who hates anything processed - feeds corn last I knew. |
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  Keeper of the King Snake
Posts: 7616
    Location: Dubach, LA | hlynn - 2014-01-30 1:11 PM [ Him saying cracked corn is good for a horse makes me think that he hasn't read any new research in about 20 years on equine nutrition.
You saying that makes me think you have never done a research project. Studies say what you want them to say. Lots of people HAVE to publish something yearly to keep a job.
He actually has a contract to teach vets who deploy. He may be old, but he's not dumb. Very up to date. Just sharing what he said. |
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 Veteran
Posts: 209
 
| Buckeye is a great feed! I really like to use Purina Amplify if the horse needs to gain weight. Had a broodmare that dropped a bunch of weight once she foaled and our vet recommended putting her on Amplify and it brought all the weight back on and she looked great. She wasn't a picky eater but I have not found a horse that doesn't like it! Best of luck! |
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 Veteran
Posts: 292
     Location: Northeast Nebraska | BARRELHORSE USA - 2014-01-29 9:49 PM
When you discover you are digging yourself into a hole ... you are supposed to stop and fill the hole back up with the dirt that came out of it ... lol
Name one woman or health club food supplements that recommend you up your fat intake to turn it into muscle so you will return to being beautiful ..... pssssst ... fat is the reason you are working out to begin with ... so how do you eat more and turn it into muscle??
Choose any horse feed these two major mills make and find the actual ingredients that are in the pellets other than the generic names ... nutrients, amino acids, fat from vegetable oils, minerals ... all these are man made processed products and not in the form any type of grain ..... and formed into pellets with gluten from china ...
Just watch the video and tell me if you hear any mention of oats, corn, alfalfa, hay or any other organic plant type sources for their feeds ... she sounds just like a fake dog rescue asking for donations .... lol ...
http://www.nutrenaworld.com/products/horses/smart-grain-formulation...
Do the same with any Purina product and you will find both companies are so evasive on what is actually in their feeds with a lot of marketing blah blah blah ... lol ..
http://horse.purinamills.com/stellent/groups/public/@purinasites/do...
You can hunt dig comb click scramble all you want to and you will NOT FIND THE INGREDIENTS in any of the products made by the two companies above ... just a lot of marketing blabbing ...
I just made a statement on the sorry feeds horse owners are paying huge prices for and not even knowing what is in the feed .... .. you can add man made formulated processed crap to dog poop and make the analysis of it sound like it is a good food for your animals ..
I dare you to post the INGREDIENTS of whatever feed you are feeding by scanning the tag and putting it here for everyone to see .... NOT THE ANALYSIS BUT THE INGREDIENTS ... and tell us what natural feed crop they are describing when using all of those the long words ....
*******************************************************************
I will stay with Mother Nature's products of oats, corn, alfalfa and good hay and a minor mineral // vitamin //sodium supplement like GroStrong minerals .... and work out the amounts of each for a natural 14% feed ....
Instead of waste products made from waste from human food or ethanol production ...
I hope I saved at least one poor horse from their owner today ... lol
********************************************************************
Purina Enrich Plus
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  A Lady with Fight
Posts: 2701
    Location: NC | TurnLane - 2014-01-30 4:18 PM
hlynn - 2014-01-30 1:11 PM CanCan - 2014-01-30 1:54 PM Β For what it's worth, I talked to my vet about high fat feeds. He is an older man, race track vet, lameness specialist. He said that the high fat feeds were developed for endurance horses. He said that anything above 3% is just making expensive poop. I think he said that fat is the third source of energy for horses. They use carbs first and protein second. He said they metabolize fat differently from us. It takes more energy for them to use fat, if that makes sense to you. He said the perfect diet for any horse is oats and alfalfa and a little cracked corn. Substitute soybean meal for alfalfa if you have to but feed lots of good grass hay. I've switched all but my two colic prone SafeChoice horses to oats and soybean meal. I'll report how they do. Him saying cracked corn is good for a horse makes me think that he hasn't read any new research in about 20 years on equine nutrition. There are just too many studies saying corn is BAD for any horse, especially any with joint issues. I won't ever feed it, regardless of how "natural" it is.
And oats in high amounts are also detrimental. Way too many carbs for most horses.
High fat is good for HARD KEEPERS and horses in highly demanding competitions. I feed my guys high fat because it keep their weight on in a very small amount. I can feed 6lbs a day and they stay nice and fat on it. Other people have to feed up to 10+lbs a day just to maintain their horse's condition.
To each their own. But high fat feeds have their place.
There areΒ hundreds andΒ hundred of current champions of all breeds and events that currently eat corn. Β Even Amy Laymon who hates anything processed - feeds corn last I knew.
That doesn't make it healthy. Corn is not meant for horses. They don't digest it. Why feed something the horse just poops out? Look at manure of horses on sweet feed. You can see the corn right there.
Corn has a HUGE difference between omega 3s and omega 6s. Omega 6s will cause inflammation in high amounts. And corn has a ridiculous high amount of them. And corn is sugar. Look at the starch content of feeds without corn compared to feeds with corn. You'll see up to a 20% difference. That's huge.
Corn is not a healthy choice for any horse. Sure, they can survive on it. A human could survive on candy. But they wouldn't be very healthy would they? |
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  Champ
Posts: 19623
       Location: Peg-Leg Julia Grimm | I feed corn, oats & barley. Always have. I throw 2 oz of supplement on top and we're good to go. Most of my horses only get 1# a day, broodmares and growing babies (after weaning) get 2-3# a day. My horses look great. Feel great and I haven't had any problems with epiphisitis or any other growth related issue. I also feed free choice grass hay/pasture with 3-5# of green leafy properly cured alfalfa.
With all the labels I've been reading today, I wonder why you guys feed "bagged crap" at all. Why don't you just feed a good quality hay and a mineral supplement and be done with it?
If you have a special needs horse, then yes, you have to do something different. I feel bad for you.
If you are feeding per bag directions you are feeding at least 10# or more of highly suspect "forage" to your animals just because it comes in a pretty bag and the feed companies have you brainwashed to think they need it. You're paying $64651654651/ton of feed when you could get better nutrition for a better value from feeding good quality hay. I'm not convinced that fat is good for horses. AT ALL. I don't feed it.
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