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  The Original Cyber Bartender
    
Location: Washington | Whiteboy - 2014-10-01 8:36 AM fatchance - 2014-10-01 9:52 AM IMHO it's way past time for Lip Tattoo's. Even grade horses would need them to compete. It was just a few months ago that a TB mare ran in a QH race on the track. They were supposed to verify papers and lip tattoos. "Mistakes" will still happen whenever we are dealing with people and money.
That was a mistake? LOL Okay then. |
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 Shipwrecked and Flat Out Zapped
Posts: 16390
Location: DUMPING CATS AND PIGS IN TEXAS :) | Perhaps, someone would have caught it sooner had he used the same name. That's why I say use registration names. That's all I'm saying. I'm not judging at all. Just trying to understand the story and asking questions. I think losing that money after winning it was a tough enough blow. I would have cried. |
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Shipwrecked and Flat Out Zapped
Posts: 16390
Location: DUMPING CATS AND PIGS IN TEXAS :) | fatchance - 2014-10-01 10:40 AM Whiteboy - 2014-10-01 8:36 AM fatchance - 2014-10-01 9:52 AM IMHO it's way past time for Lip Tattoo's. Even grade horses would need them to compete. It was just a few months ago that a TB mare ran in a QH race on the track. They were supposed to verify papers and lip tattoos. "Mistakes" will still happen whenever we are dealing with people and money.
If I remember correctly, they fired the tattoo checker. Am I right, Whiteboy? |
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 Dog Resuce Agent
Posts: 3459
Location: southeast Texas | Three 4 Luck - 2014-10-01 9:54 AM TurnLane - 2014-10-01 9:39 AM I just hate to see the lynch mob mentality- its not like he drugged his horse nor got caught with an illegal timer laser device. It truly could have been the utmost of errors. He has been around far too long to make this big of a mistake, IMO.
He does ride TONS of horses. Maybe like most men, he isnt great with all the registered names of his futurity horses that change every year? Or maybe, just maybe, his customer strong armed him?? I have NO idea. Just playing devils advocate. Maybe he wasnt aware that the owner paid the carry over for the futurity??
I dislike a cheater more than anyone- I just hope someone would give an icon in our sport the benefit of the doubt until we know the details. I don't think he should be hung from the nearest tree by a lynch mob, however, let's call a spade a spade and stop trying to excuse or justify it. Dude needs to man up and own it, then move on and do better. People trying to smooth it over are making the situation worse because it deepens the mistrust.
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 That's White "Man" to You
Posts: 5515
| LRQHS - 2014-10-01 10:42 AM fatchance - 2014-10-01 10:40 AM Whiteboy - 2014-10-01 8:36 AM fatchance - 2014-10-01 9:52 AM IMHO it's way past time for Lip Tattoo's. Even grade horses would need them to compete. It was just a few months ago that a TB mare ran in a QH race on the track. They were supposed to verify papers and lip tattoos. "Mistakes" will still happen whenever we are dealing with people and money.
I'm not sure, but I would have. |
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 Own It and Move On
Location: The edge of no where | Longneck - 2014-10-01 10:39 AM MS2011 - 2014-10-01 10:17 AM Longneck - 2014-10-01 10:11 AM MS2011 - 2014-10-01 9:56 AM TurnLane - 2014-10-01 9:39 AM I just hate to see the lynch mob mentality- its not like he drugged his horse nor got caught with an illegal timer laser device. It truly could have been the utmost of errors. He has been around far too long to make this big of a mistake, IMO.
He does ride TONS of horses. Maybe like most men, he isnt great with all the registered names of his futurity horses that change every year? Or maybe, just maybe, his customer strong armed him?? I have NO idea. Just playing devils advocate. Maybe he wasnt aware that the owner paid the carry over for the futurity??
I dislike a cheater more than anyone- I just hope someone would give an icon in our sport the benefit of the doubt until we know the details. ^Exactly.
Let's not lynch him without knowing both sides of the story. I do think that often owners do all the paperwork on entering futurity horses. His reputation has taken a serious blow over the last few days and they did have to give up a big fat check.... Can we let it go with that? Perhaps JL will invite him NOT to come back for a couple of years, but they're the only producer that should (if they feel it's justified) penalize him for what happened at their race.
Does anyone else think it's odd that if he was really trying to cheat the system that they didn't at least get the painted on futurity number off the horse? Either it's really really dumb, or there's more to it....idk
Personally - I dislike the carryover rule. I would prefer that if you hit a barrel in the first class, you have the option to run again. As far as horse sports, there is far less cheating that occurs in barrel racing than anything else. Let's not get too carried away screaming for more rules and regulations....be careful what you wish for.
I wanted to tell you, I saw your saddle in person... and  !!
I never introduced myself because I could tell you had your game face on!
Thank you! I love it. You should've introduced yourself! I'd love to meet some board buddies in person! I thought it was a first class race that Jud put on, I'd never been and I learned SO much watching all week. Absolutely loved getting to watch some of the top riders anywhere run. |
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Rad Dork
Posts: 5218
Location: Oklahoma | MS2011 - 2014-10-01 10:49 AM Longneck - 2014-10-01 10:39 AM MS2011 - 2014-10-01 10:17 AM Longneck - 2014-10-01 10:11 AM MS2011 - 2014-10-01 9:56 AM TurnLane - 2014-10-01 9:39 AM I just hate to see the lynch mob mentality- its not like he drugged his horse nor got caught with an illegal timer laser device. It truly could have been the utmost of errors. He has been around far too long to make this big of a mistake, IMO.
He does ride TONS of horses. Maybe like most men, he isnt great with all the registered names of his futurity horses that change every year? Or maybe, just maybe, his customer strong armed him?? I have NO idea. Just playing devils advocate. Maybe he wasnt aware that the owner paid the carry over for the futurity??
I dislike a cheater more than anyone- I just hope someone would give an icon in our sport the benefit of the doubt until we know the details. ^Exactly.
Let's not lynch him without knowing both sides of the story. I do think that often owners do all the paperwork on entering futurity horses. His reputation has taken a serious blow over the last few days and they did have to give up a big fat check.... Can we let it go with that? Perhaps JL will invite him NOT to come back for a couple of years, but they're the only producer that should (if they feel it's justified) penalize him for what happened at their race.
Does anyone else think it's odd that if he was really trying to cheat the system that they didn't at least get the painted on futurity number off the horse? Either it's really really dumb, or there's more to it....idk
Personally - I dislike the carryover rule. I would prefer that if you hit a barrel in the first class, you have the option to run again. As far as horse sports, there is far less cheating that occurs in barrel racing than anything else. Let's not get too carried away screaming for more rules and regulations....be careful what you wish for.
I wanted to tell you, I saw your saddle in person... and !!
I never introduced myself because I could tell you had your game face on! You should've introduced yourself! I'd love to meet some board buddies in person! I thought it was a first class race that Jud put on, I'd never been and I learned SO much watching all week. Absolutely loved getting to watch some of the top riders anywhere run.
It certainly was first class, can't wait to back next year!
Next time I see that saddle I will say hello! lol You were doing exhibitions and I know how important those are!
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That's White "Man" to You
Posts: 5515
| fatchance - 2014-10-01 10:40 AM Whiteboy - 2014-10-01 8:36 AM fatchance - 2014-10-01 9:52 AM IMHO it's way past time for Lip Tattoo's. Even grade horses would need them to compete. It was just a few months ago that a TB mare ran in a QH race on the track. They were supposed to verify papers and lip tattoos. "Mistakes" will still happen whenever we are dealing with people and money.
Mistakes, incompetence, cheating...to me it doesn't really matter, it is almost impossible to prevent all of them. |
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 Husband Spoiler
Posts: 4151
Location: North Dakota | zipper - 2014-10-01 9:57 AM Let's stop and think about this
First, much to my dismay Troy has a well documented history of entering open races-even at futurities--with barn names. So no change in pattern here.
Second, EVERYONE KNOWS who he is and when you run an 8 the day before LOTS of people have good idea of who the horse is. So, entering with the plan to win the race isn't exactly low key. In fact, he's putting it out there for all to see. He knows people watch him, so he damn sure wasn't trying to hide anything. I think its funny that everyone is assuming that he thought that everyone who knew who the horse was wouldn't say anything.
Third, the horse still had the number on his butt. If he was trying to cheat and be all devisious, wouldn't someone who has been in the industry as long as he has thought to remove the number? It's not like he doesn't know its still there. Anyone who has futuritied knows what a pain in the butt it is to remove those things.
He said it was an honest mistake and I'm inclined to believe him.
Also futurity horses HAVE to be entered with their registered name if registered and months in advance. So running it with a registered name in the futurity and then barn name in the open is not a red flag to me. |
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 You just got to get mean and mean it.
Location: Arkansas | You can cut him all the slack you want....but that rider/trainer has been in this business for many many years. He should know the rules of engagement backwards and forwards. Isn't he the one who should be advising the owner where, when and how their horse can and should be enteried? Novice owner or not...he's the expert.
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Industrial Srength Barrel Racer
Posts: 7268
| A little OT here but did people get their checks and go home and then they discovered this? How do they handle all that? People have to send the money back or what? And who caught all this? If they didn't catch it before the run, how did they catch it after (I've heard a video but why not call it out before hand)? |
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Husband Spoiler
Posts: 4151
Location: North Dakota | Lobo - 2014-10-01 11:21 AM You can cut him all the slack you want....but that rider/trainer has been in this business for many many years. He should know the rules of engagement backwards and forwards. Isn't he the one who should be advising the owner where, when and how their horse can and should be enteried? Novice owner or not...he's the expert.
I agree "ignorance of the law excuses no one" so yes he should be held accountable but I don't want to throw stones at him yelling "cheater! cheater!" and have him banned for life. I honestly think it was a mistake...a stupid one yes! But a mistake none the less. Maybe he had been stressed dealing with horses and people (we all know how stressful horse people can be! lol). I know I have done some stupid things because my head wasn't all there and I didn't take the time to think things through. |
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You just got to get mean and mean it.
Location: Arkansas | Just Bring It - 2014-10-01 11:34 AM Lobo - 2014-10-01 11:21 AM You can cut him all the slack you want....but that rider/trainer has been in this business for many many years. He should know the rules of engagement backwards and forwards. Isn't he the one who should be advising the owner where, when and how their horse can and should be enteried? Novice owner or not...he's the expert.
I agree "ignorance of the law excuses no one" so yes he should be held accountable but I don't want to throw stones at him yelling "cheater! cheater!" and have him banned for life. I honestly think it was a mistake...a stupid one yes! But a mistake none the less. Maybe he had been stressed dealing with horses and people (we all know how stressful horse people can be! lol). I know I have done some stupid things because my head wasn't all there and I didn't take the time to think things through.
Yes, it can be confusing and stressful entering any number of horses. BUT he makes his living doing this! So, pay attention!!!! |
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 BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck.....
I think there ought to be consequences for this sort of thing. Simply saying "aw shucks I made an honest mistake" shouldn't let him off the hook. I think the consequence or penalty ought to be proportional to the violation. This sort of thing is a detriment to barrel racing, IMO. Once I made a run out of turn by mistake. I thought my name was called, and we went flying in there. We had a real good run, but it was a "no time" because I screwed up. I was embarrased, to say the least, but I completely understood. That too was an honest mistake. |
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Husband Spoiler
Posts: 4151
Location: North Dakota | Lobo - 2014-10-01 11:59 AM Just Bring It - 2014-10-01 11:34 AM Lobo - 2014-10-01 11:21 AM You can cut him all the slack you want....but that rider/trainer has been in this business for many many years. He should know the rules of engagement backwards and forwards. Isn't he the one who should be advising the owner where, when and how their horse can and should be enteried? Novice owner or not...he's the expert.
I agree "ignorance of the law excuses no one" so yes he should be held accountable but I don't want to throw stones at him yelling "cheater! cheater!" and have him banned for life. I honestly think it was a mistake...a stupid one yes! But a mistake none the less. Maybe he had been stressed dealing with horses and people (we all know how stressful horse people can be! lol). I know I have done some stupid things because my head wasn't all there and I didn't take the time to think things through.
Oh I agree! I am not trying to excuse what he did at all! But I don't think he intentially cheated. He just made a horrible unprofessional mistake. |
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Husband Spoiler
Posts: 4151
Location: North Dakota | HotbearLVR - 2014-10-01 12:01 PM If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck.....
I think there ought to be consequences for this sort of thing. Simply saying "aw shucks I made an honest mistake" shouldn't let him off the hook. I think the consequence or penalty ought to be proportional to the violation. This sort of thing is a detriment to barrel racing, IMO. Once I made a run out of turn by mistake. I thought my name was called, and we went flying in there. We had a real good run, but it was a "no time" because I screwed up. I was embarrased, to say the least, but I completely understood. That too was an honest mistake.
Yes and he ended up recieving a no time. You were not banned for life and I don't feel he should be either. I do not feel intentially cheated. I think he should be reprimanded but not banned for life or thought of as a cheater because of this. |
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 ...seeing spots
Posts: 1824
Location: BELLEVUE, IA | Griz - 2014-10-01 11:22 AM A little OT here but did people get their checks and go home and then they discovered this? How do they handle all that? People have to send the money back or what? And who caught all this? If they didn't catch it before the run, how did they catch it after (I've heard a video but why not call it out before hand)?
I was wondering this as well. Surely some people picked up their checks. I had originally won the 3d and was just waiting for my check in the mail. It would have been nice if someone from the race had contacted us and told us . |
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 Ms Bling Bling Sleeze Kitty
Posts: 20917
Location: LouLouVille, OK | Whiteboy - 2014-10-01 11:06 AM fatchance - 2014-10-01 10:40 AM Whiteboy - 2014-10-01 8:36 AM fatchance - 2014-10-01 9:52 AM IMHO it's way past time for Lip Tattoo's. Even grade horses would need them to compete. It was just a few months ago that a TB mare ran in a QH race on the track. They were supposed to verify papers and lip tattoos. "Mistakes" will still happen whenever we are dealing with people and money.
Incompetent we all know he isn't...He wouldn't have the horses he has if he was... this isn't his first rodeo, Jud Little race nor FF race.
Mistake? hummmm he knows the rules
Heres where Im at...lol
I wasn't there, I wasn't entered but my friends were, One lost a big paycheck over this deal and while not a big deal to him Im sure, it is to her. Im more livid for her then she is! so no matter what happens what he says, unless he brings her that 2k+ check she thought she won and would have won if he had been legit I aint buyin it....
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 Expert
Posts: 2097
Location: Deep South | dianeguinn - 2014-10-01 10:33 AM
cheryl makofka - 2014-10-01 10:18 AM
I can see how mistakes happen, as futurity entries are usually requested months in advance, it would be easy for someone to forget especially if there was uncertainty.
It also depends if there was a program, and if the program showed the carried over horses, if so there was no possibility for this to be an innocent mistake, he could have looked up the registered horse in the program and seen if the horse was carried over.
There also is another way to look at it which only the rider could comment on, people say he wasn't happy with his first run, the client is paying for the entries anyway, so he decided to pay the entry fee take his chances on getting caught and re run the horse.
He got caught they took the money away from him, since he is a "famous" person, chances are nothing else will happen, as it will be hard to prove. The client yes doesn't get the money, but that time was recorded and videoed so there is proof the horse should have won the race, doubt they are too upset.
There was no catalog. I'd be inclined to think that since other futurity horses were physically making the run on Sunday for Future Fortunes, that he thought he could physically run the horse again and didn't know the owner had paid to carry his time over. I can see why he used a barn name....heck, I can't even remember the registered name of some of my new horses w/o seeing the papers, and I can't imagine having a whole new set every few months to run. Plus, if he was in the futurity, the papers were in the office and not where he could look at them. And as Cheryl said, futurity entries are made months in advance, it could be that he forgot this horse carried over, as he had to physically run the LC Packin Heat horse in the futurity AND the open, as he was Future Fortunes. This one was NOT Future Fortunes, so his time was carried over. It's very confusing, and I can see how he could have been confused with as many horses as he was jockeying. I am reminded of the scripture where it says that you can see the speck in your brother's eyes, but not the log in your own when I am reading this thread. I say shame on everyone for thinking the worst. This is just like the crucifixion of Taylor Jacobs when no one really knew the facts. It's easy to sit on the couch and judge....much harder to be in the real world and find out the FACTS. jmo
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...seeing spots
Posts: 1824
Location: BELLEVUE, IA | cindyt - 2014-10-01 12:13 PM Whiteboy - 2014-10-01 11:06 AM fatchance - 2014-10-01 10:40 AM Whiteboy - 2014-10-01 8:36 AM fatchance - 2014-10-01 9:52 AM IMHO it's way past time for Lip Tattoo's. Even grade horses would need them to compete. It was just a few months ago that a TB mare ran in a QH race on the track. They were supposed to verify papers and lip tattoos. "Mistakes" will still happen whenever we are dealing with people and money.
Mistake? hummmm he knows the rules
Heres where Im at...lol
I wasn't there, I wasn't entered but my friends were, One lost a big paycheck over this deal and while not a big deal to him Im sure, it is to her. Im more livid for her then she is! so no matter what happens what he says, unless he brings her that 2k+ check she thought she won and would have won if he had been legit I aint buyin it....
Thanks Sister |
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