|
|
 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 356
 
| WYOracer - 2014-11-06 12:25 PM
k.maddocks24 - 2014-11-06 11:06 AM WYOracer - 2014-11-06 11:25 AM Anyone else noticed that now when producers are using laser stakes instead of ground stakes the barrel is set in the middle of the stake instead of at the lip of the barrel? So when I was at a barrel race a couple months ago and they say its set to a standard I don't see how it truly was a standard since the barrel was set on the stake differently. Makes a difference in my mind. WPRA rules state that barrels should be centered on the markers as well. 12.12.9. When setting barrels on marker, center of barrel shall be positioned over where marker comes out of the ground. I've seen it done both ways at different events, whether they have stakes or lasers. No idea why though!
Agreed! I just referred back to the WPRA rule because (at least I've always been told) the WPRA is where the "standard" pattern originated from. I've been at barrel races where a barrel got put on the wrong side of a stake before, and it's not a good situation! From that standpoint though, a run on a standard pattern at a WPRA event wouldn't be comparable to a run on a standard pattern at an event where the barrels were set inside or outside the stakes. |
|
| |
|
 Husband Spoiler
Posts: 4151
Location: North Dakota | k.maddocks24 - 2014-11-06 2:09 PM WYOracer - 2014-11-06 12:25 PM k.maddocks24 - 2014-11-06 11:06 AM WYOracer - 2014-11-06 11:25 AM Anyone else noticed that now when producers are using laser stakes instead of ground stakes the barrel is set in the middle of the stake instead of at the lip of the barrel? So when I was at a barrel race a couple months ago and they say its set to a standard I don't see how it truly was a standard since the barrel was set on the stake differently. Makes a difference in my mind. WPRA rules state that barrels should be centered on the markers as well. 12.12.9. When setting barrels on marker, center of barrel shall be positioned over where marker comes out of the ground. I've seen it done both ways at different events, whether they have stakes or lasers. No idea why though! Agreed! I just referred back to the WPRA rule because (at least I've always been told ) the WPRA is where the "standard" pattern originated from. I've been at barrel races where a barrel got put on the wrong side of a stake before, and it's not a good situation! From that standpoint though, a run on a standard pattern at a WPRA event wouldn't be comparable to a run on a standard pattern at an event where the barrels were set inside or outside the stakes.
I always thought barrels should be on the inside of the stake because that stake is measured from the fence/wall which in many rule books have a rule stating that the barrels need to be at least such a such a distance from the fence/wall so to me that means the outside edge of the barrel. But I have been to quite a few runs where they set the barrel to the ouside of the stake. Or like mentioned right over the top of the stake (which to me would be difficult to get exact). |
|
| |
|
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 356
| Just Bring It - 2014-11-06 2:16 PM
k.maddocks24 - 2014-11-06 2:09 PM WYOracer - 2014-11-06 12:25 PM k.maddocks24 - 2014-11-06 11:06 AM WYOracer - 2014-11-06 11:25 AM Anyone else noticed that now when producers are using laser stakes instead of ground stakes the barrel is set in the middle of the stake instead of at the lip of the barrel? So when I was at a barrel race a couple months ago and they say its set to a standard I don't see how it truly was a standard since the barrel was set on the stake differently. Makes a difference in my mind. WPRA rules state that barrels should be centered on the markers as well. 12.12.9. When setting barrels on marker, center of barrel shall be positioned over where marker comes out of the ground. I've seen it done both ways at different events, whether they have stakes or lasers. No idea why though! Agreed! I just referred back to the WPRA rule because (at least I've always been told ) the WPRA is where the "standard" pattern originated from. I've been at barrel races where a barrel got put on the wrong side of a stake before, and it's not a good situation! From that standpoint though, a run on a standard pattern at a WPRA event wouldn't be comparable to a run on a standard pattern at an event where the barrels were set inside or outside the stakes.
Maybe I'm an oddball here, but I'd rather see them centered on top of the stake. Then there can be no confusion among the barrel setters as to inside or outside.... |
|
| |
|
 Elite Veteran
Posts: 693
Location: Mansfield, TX | I like the idea of a standard pattern,,, but the only problem I see is that several of the arenas we lease already have "their" pattern set up on lasers. When they have lasers already in place we always try to use them and set our timers up in accordance with their pattern. Every once in awhile, we don't get our lasers exactly where they normally are (for one reason or another) but we always try to set them up right. Plus it also adds to excitement levels when someone breaks an arena record. |
|
| |
|
 I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
Location: In the Hills of Texas | Destry Fleming - 2014-11-06 2:31 PM I like the idea of a standard pattern,,, but the only problem I see is that several of the arenas we lease already have "their" pattern set up on lasers. When they have lasers already in place we always try to use them and set our timers up in accordance with their pattern. Every once in awhile, we don't get our lasers exactly where they normally are (for one reason or another) but we always try to set them up right. Plus it also adds to excitement levels when someone breaks an arena record.
We wouldn't be changing the standard pattern but would actually be adding more patterns instead of just having one pattern that is known to be the standard pattern. Does that make sense?
I agree about the excitement of breaking an arena record as you of all people know how exciting it was the day Jordan Peterson broke the record at one of your races. We all know the ground had to be awesome for her to do so and was a hat's off to the Win$More ground crew and the facility. 
|
|
| |
|
 Go For It!
Location: Texas | Destry, there have been lots of posts on this topic so I will try to summarize it for you.
Leave the "standard" pattern as is, but add 4 additional sizes to choose from when setting up your pattern... size A would be the current WPRA standard pattern, Size B would have ___ measurements, Size C would be ___, etc. You could have the NFR pattern as pattern C and then one smaller for a D pattern. Producers could choose the pattern size from the list and stake it according to the size of the venue they are running in. On the results you simply state which pattern you were using. It would be a fantastic tool for those who are buying and selling horses and would close up that regional gap.
|
|
| |
|
 Go Your Own Way
Posts: 4947
Location: SE KS | I think this would be a good deal. You have my vote.
Just want to add - wether th eproducer would notate prior to barrel race which pattern was being used would be helpful for those girls that have horses that do better on small patterns or large patterns which horse to bring. Mainly if barrel racer had never been to that venue before to know the set up. Then said barrel racer could decide, do I want to enter or I will pass for those that may not have 2 or more horses to chose from depending on if they are small or big pattern runners. Does this make sense.
I like bigger patterns, so I usually shy away from smaller patterns... (Can't think that fast.) :)
good topic.
Edited by Dinero10 2014-11-06 5:15 PM
|
|
| |
|
The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| Dinero10 - 2014-11-06 5:05 PM
I think this would be a good deal. You have my vote.
Just want to add - wether th eproducer would notate prior to barrel race which pattern was being used would be helpful for those girls that have horses that do better on small patterns or large patterns which horse to bring. Mainly if barrel racer had never been to that venue before to know the set up. Then said barrel racer could decide, do I want to enter or I will pass for those that may not have 2 or more horses to chose from depending on if they are small or big pattern runners. Does this make sense.
I like bigger patterns, so I usually shy away from smaller patterns... (Can't think that fast.) :)
good topic.
Nevertoold this is what I was talking about.
I can hear all the disgruntled people now when a pattern was advertised, but due to circumstances beyond the producers control the pattern had to be changed prior to the first run. |
|
| |
|
Go For It!
Location: Texas | cheryl makofka - 2014-11-06 5:42 PM
Dinero10 - 2014-11-06 5:05 PM
I think this would be a good deal. You have my vote.
Just want to add - wether th eproducer would notate prior to barrel race which pattern was being used would be helpful for those girls that have horses that do better on small patterns or large patterns which horse to bring. Mainly if barrel racer had never been to that venue before to know the set up. Then said barrel racer could decide, do I want to enter or I will pass for those that may not have 2 or more horses to chose from depending on if they are small or big pattern runners. Does this make sense.
I like bigger patterns, so I usually shy away from smaller patterns... (Can't think that fast.) :)
good topic.
Nevertoold this is what I was talking about.
I can hear all the disgruntled people now when a pattern was advertised, but due to circumstances beyond the producers control the pattern had to be changed prior to the first run.
Even if it were to happen, it's not going to go from an A to a D... Maybe from an A to a B. Which probably won't bother many folks. Just those who love to have something to gripe about... And you'll never make that type of person happy regardless of what you do.
|
|
| |
|
I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
Location: In the Hills of Texas | grinandbareit - 2014-11-06 6:13 PM cheryl makofka - 2014-11-06 5:42 PM Dinero10 - 2014-11-06 5:05 PM I think this would be a good deal. You have my vote.
Just want to add - wether th eproducer would notate prior to barrel race which pattern was being used would be helpful for those girls that have horses that do better on small patterns or large patterns which horse to bring. Mainly if barrel racer had never been to that venue before to know the set up. Then said barrel racer could decide, do I want to enter or I will pass for those that may not have 2 or more horses to chose from depending on if they are small or big pattern runners. Does this make sense.
I like bigger patterns, so I usually shy away from smaller patterns... (Can't think that fast.) :)
good topic. Nevertoold this is what I was talking about. I can hear all the disgruntled people now when a pattern was advertised, but due to circumstances beyond the producers control the pattern had to be changed prior to the first run. Even if it were to happen, it's not going to go from an A to a D... Maybe from an A to a B. Which probably won't bother many folks. Just those who love to have something to gripe about... And you'll never make that type of person happy regardless of what you do.
Amen!
|
|
| |
|
Go For It!
Location: Texas | Nevertooold - 2014-11-06 6:16 PM
grinandbareit - 2014-11-06 6:13 PM cheryl makofka - 2014-11-06 5:42 PM Dinero10 - 2014-11-06 5:05 PM I think this would be a good deal. You have my vote.
Just want to add - wether th eproducer would notate prior to barrel race which pattern was being used would be helpful for those girls that have horses that do better on small patterns or large patterns which horse to bring. Mainly if barrel racer had never been to that venue before to know the set up. Then said barrel racer could decide, do I want to enter or I will pass for those that may not have 2 or more horses to chose from depending on if they are small or big pattern runners. Does this make sense.
I like bigger patterns, so I usually shy away from smaller patterns... (Can't think that fast.) :)
good topic. Nevertoold this is what I was talking about. I can hear all the disgruntled people now when a pattern was advertised, but due to circumstances beyond the producers control the pattern had to be changed prior to the first run. Even if it were to happen, it's not going to go from an A to a D... Maybe from an A to a B. Which probably won't bother many folks. Just those who love to have something to gripe about... And you'll never make that type of person happy regardless of what you do.
Actually, I don't really think it will matter to many people what size the pattern is… unless you're talking about the rodeos or the straight open races… Most producers put on 4d races and the majority of people will go regardless of the size of the arena. It's more help for those who are buying, selling or trying to compare their horses runs to some of the tougher horses. It would help sellers in regards to pricing their horses accurately and it would help buyers tremendously in their quest to find the right horse. This can work and I'm betting that one day we'll see it all over the place, because it's a GREAT concept!
It would open up so many options for those that are buying and selling… And how fun would it be to have a different record on each pattern. Those who have really nice horses would be going all over the place to see if they could set a record on more than one pattern. And no matter where you run, you could see a record breaking run on that particular pattern. It would be pretty cool!
Edited by grinandbareit 2014-11-06 6:48 PM
|
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 1314
Location: North Central Iowa Land of white frozen grass | I think one thing that would happen is the spread in price from a 1d horse to the 4 and 5 d horses will really exagerate. There would be no question on where a horse would fit in. We would just kill the value of a lot of horses. |
|
| |
|
 You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | I like the idea!! |
|
| |
|
Go For It!
Location: Texas | BS Hauler - 2014-11-06 6:54 PM
I think one thing that would happen is the spread in price from a 1d horse to the 4 and 5 d horses will really exagerate. There would be no question on where a horse would fit in. We would just kill the value of a lot of horses.
I don't think we would kill the value, just keep people honest. Fact is, a 4d horse isn't worth what a 1d horse is worth. Like I said earlier, it would close up that north - south gap. BUT, if you're trying to sell your 3d horse as a consistent 1d, then you're right, lol, those guys are going to be poop out of luck!
I personally see that as the BIGGEST PLUS!
|
|
| |
|
I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
Location: In the Hills of Texas | I think it's a great idea and the people we need to sell it to first is the big producers and I think it's such a simple deal it would be an easy sell. Every producer has to stake barrels and write down the dimensions in case a stake is lost. The hardest part would be getting the exact measurements and I would say that each producer pretty much already knows what size pattern they set up at the arenas they produce barrel races out so it would be just doing a little tweaking so everyone would be on the same page.
|
|
| |
|
Nut Case Expert
Posts: 9305
Location: Tulsa, Ok | I feel like there are too many other mitigating factors effecting time for "standard patterns" in different venues to ever be truly comparable. |
|
| |
|
I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
Location: In the Hills of Texas | SC Wrangler - 2014-11-06 7:12 PM I feel like there are too many other mitigating factors effecting time for "standard patterns" in different venues to ever be truly comparable.
We've already discussed that and it's already present with the Standard Pattern records already. It was still run and was impressive when it was done in Alvarado, TX, Pasco and Brazil. It's more or of an arena record done on a certain size pattern and holds a lot of bragging rights. |
|
| |
|
I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
Location: In the Hills of Texas | Nevertooold - 2014-11-06 7:19 PM SC Wrangler - 2014-11-06 7:12 PM I feel like there are too many other mitigating factors effecting time for "standard patterns" in different venues to ever be truly comparable. We've already discussed that and it's already present with the Standard Pattern records already. It was still run and was impressive when it was done in Alvarado, TX, Pasco and Brazil. It's more or of an arena record done on a certain size pattern and holds a lot of bragging rights.
And wasn't it the girl that ran the standard pattern record in Brazil that just spanked them at the American Qualifier in Glen Rose? It would have been cool if this had already been in place and she probably would be holding 2 records right now instead of one. |
|
| |
|
Go For It!
Location: Texas | I've already posted this on FB and emailed it to several producers… Please feel free to copy and paste if you know a producer and would like to send it to them.
To Whom It May Concern:
Several of us in the barrel racing community would like to extend a proposition to you regarding the implementation of a new "standard" in barrel racing patterns. After much discussion, we have concluded that it would be really beneficial to many barrel racers if we could implement more than one "standard" pattern size.
Here is the thought… Leave the WPRA standard pattern alone and call it "Pattern A", from there choose 3 or 4 additional pattern sizes to be used, dependent on the size of the venue where the barrel race will be held. We could call the NFR sized pattern "Pattern C" then come up with a pattern for "B" and "D". Perhaps the Ardmore or Oklahoma City arenas could be used to compute those particular pattern sizes. Then a list of the dimensions for each pattern would be on your website and producers could choose what pattern would fit their venue.
The producer would then stake the pattern according to what "standard" they choose. The benefits of this type of standard will be felt across the barrel racing industry from Hawaii to Brazil. People all over the globe could use these standards to compare their runs with runs all over the country. It would be beneficial in closing the gap between horses who run in the Northern states vs the South. It would help, immensely, those who are purchasing horses out of state and help those that are marketing their horses as well. The really neat thing about this is that producers, all over the country, all over the world, will have a shot at seeing standard pattern records being set and broken. I'm sure that if we put our heads together on this deal, it could be something that would set the barrel racing world on fire. We could get a group together that would come up with a set of standards, work out any kinks that may arise, and it's clear sailing from there.
I truly hope that you will consider this proposition and please feel free to contact me for further assistance.
Thanks so much,
Joy Cameron
[email protected]
|
|
| |
|
 Elite Veteran
Posts: 972
Location: Texas! | grinandbareit - 2014-11-06 6:02 PM BS Hauler - 2014-11-06 6:54 PM I think one thing that would happen is the spread in price from a 1d horse to the 4 and 5 d horses will really exagerate. There would be no question on where a horse would fit in. We would just kill the value of a lot of horses. I don't think we would kill the value, just keep people honest. Fact is, a 4d horse isn't worth what a 1d horse is worth. Like I said earlier, it would close up that north - south gap. BUT, if you're trying to sell your 3d horse as a consistent 1d, then you're right, lol, those guys are going to be poop out of luck! I personally see that as the BIGGEST PLUS!
Nailed it! |
|
| |
Folks on-line