|
|
  That's White "Man" to You
Posts: 5515
 
| ThreeCorners - 2015-03-04 10:53 AM I have seen alot of GREAT performing stallions be duds in the sire dept. Raising ones fee mid season because he himself did good reciently is bad business. Firewaterontherocks was in the exact same spot last year. He would have WON The American had he not pulled the third over leaving it, yet even with the downed third was still second. . Yes, Robyn raised his stud fee, but she did it for THIS year and not just because he himself did good. His foals are just now starting to hit the arena and he already has 3 over the $100,000 earnings mark!!!
I may be wrong. But If i remember right FWOTR book was already closed prior to the American. It it had still been open I'm sure she would have raised it that year. |
|
| |
|
Tried and True
Posts: 21185
  
Location: Where I am happiest | Whiteboy - 2015-03-04 11:05 AM ThreeCorners - 2015-03-04 10:53 AM I have seen alot of GREAT performing stallions be duds in the sire dept. Raising ones fee mid season because he himself did good reciently is bad business. Firewaterontherocks was in the exact same spot last year. He would have WON The American had he not pulled the third over leaving it, yet even with the downed third was still second. . Yes, Robyn raised his stud fee, but she did it for THIS year and not just because he himself did good. His foals are just now starting to hit the arena and he already has 3 over the $100,000 earnings mark!!! I may be wrong. But If i remember right FWOTR book was already closed prior to the American. It it had still been open I'm sure she would have raised it that year.
I came back to add. Only Robyn can really answere if she would have raised it last year but my point was, she raised it for this year not because he himself did good at The American. She raised it because of what his foals are doing and they are just starting to get out there.
Edited by ThreeCorners 2015-03-04 11:14 AM
|
|
| |
|
That's White "Man" to You
Posts: 5515
| ThreeCorners - 2015-03-04 11:08 AM Whiteboy - 2015-03-04 11:05 AM ThreeCorners - 2015-03-04 10:53 AM I have seen alot of GREAT performing stallions be duds in the sire dept. Raising ones fee mid season because he himself did good reciently is bad business. Firewaterontherocks was in the exact same spot last year. He would have WON The American had he not pulled the third over leaving it, yet even with the downed third was still second. . Yes, Robyn raised his stud fee, but she did it for THIS year and not just because he himself did good. His foals are just now starting to hit the arena and he already has 3 over the $100,000 earnings mark!!! I may be wrong. But If i remember right FWOTR book was already closed prior to the American. It it had still been open I'm sure she would have raised it that year.
I came back to add. Only Robyn can really answere if she would have raised it last year but my point was, she raised it for this year not because he himself did good at The American. She raised it because of what his foals are doing and they are just starting to get out there.
Either way, if it was him or his foals or a combination of the two. People obviously think he is worth it. If anything he is underpriced based on the speed at which she filled his book this year. |
|
| |
|
 Champ
Posts: 19623
Location: Peg-Leg Julia Grimm | Iwish - 2015-03-04 9:18 AM This thread has really opened my eyes that I'm going to have to find a different horse sport to get into. Mounted shooting seems like it would be fun or I have always wanted to try the trail competition (not endurance but the one where you have obstacles and what not to cross go over under etc.)
This isn't about what horse sport you may like and want to join in. It's about the free market and whats right or wrong. It's not wrong to be a capitalist. What's wrong is not abiding by your agreements and promises. |
|
| |
|
 Hugs to You
Posts: 7551
Location: In The Land of Cotton | OregonBR - 2015-03-04 12:27 PM Iwish - 2015-03-04 9:18 AM This thread has really opened my eyes that I'm going to have to find a different horse sport to get into. Mounted shooting seems like it would be fun or I have always wanted to try the trail competition (not endurance but the one where you have obstacles and what not to cross go over under etc.) This isn't about what horse sport you may like and want to join in. It's about the free market and whats right or wrong. It's not wrong to be a capitalist. What's wrong is not abiding by your agreements and promises.
If the stallion owner changes after you sent in your booking fee or even the whole stud fee, and doesn't honor the original price, yes that is wrong.
If the stud owners want to change in the middle of the breeding season, (on contracts not sent in/booked) it will remain to be seen how that affects their future business.
|
|
| |
|
 Career in Looney Tune Land
Posts: 1717
Location: the high desert | Well I got to figure out how to become a capitalist then. |
|
| |
|
Hugs to You
Posts: 7551
Location: In The Land of Cotton | Iwish - 2015-03-04 12:31 PM Well I got to figure out how to become a capitalist then.
This is America - you can do it if you want.  |
|
| |
|
Tried and True
Posts: 21185
Location: Where I am happiest | Whiteboy - 2015-03-04 11:20 AM ThreeCorners - 2015-03-04 11:08 AM Whiteboy - 2015-03-04 11:05 AM ThreeCorners - 2015-03-04 10:53 AM I have seen alot of GREAT performing stallions be duds in the sire dept. Raising ones fee mid season because he himself did good reciently is bad business. Firewaterontherocks was in the exact same spot last year. He would have WON The American had he not pulled the third over leaving it, yet even with the downed third was still second. . Yes, Robyn raised his stud fee, but she did it for THIS year and not just because he himself did good. His foals are just now starting to hit the arena and he already has 3 over the $100,000 earnings mark!!! I may be wrong. But If i remember right FWOTR book was already closed prior to the American. It it had still been open I'm sure she would have raised it that year.
I came back to add. Only Robyn can really answere if she would have raised it last year but my point was, she raised it for this year not because he himself did good at The American. She raised it because of what his foals are doing and they are just starting to get out there.
Exactly! Supply and demand. Last year she booked 50 mares and his book filled in jan. Prior to The American. This year, she upped his book to 65 and filled it in 2 hours. Thats why,I agree with Fatchance in that she would have been smarter to just say his book was full this year. Upped his fee for NEXT year and they would have raced to book and never would have upset anybody by raising it mid stream after he has been advertised at such and such a price for 2015. |
|
| |
|
Champ
Posts: 19623
Location: Peg-Leg Julia Grimm | 3canstorun - 2015-03-04 9:30 AM OregonBR - 2015-03-04 12:27 PM Iwish - 2015-03-04 9:18 AM This thread has really opened my eyes that I'm going to have to find a different horse sport to get into. Mounted shooting seems like it would be fun or I have always wanted to try the trail competition (not endurance but the one where you have obstacles and what not to cross go over under etc.) This isn't about what horse sport you may like and want to join in. It's about the free market and whats right or wrong. It's not wrong to be a capitalist. What's wrong is not abiding by your agreements and promises.
If the stud owners want to change in the middle of the breeding season, (on contracts not sent in/booked) it will remain to be seen how that affects their future business.
Is that what happened? I didn't read that anywhere. If that's what happened, I already said that's VERY wrong. It will come back and bite them in the butt. |
|
| |
|
Hugs to You
Posts: 7551
Location: In The Land of Cotton | No I am pretty sure that didn't happen. Just saying that if it ever did it would be bad news for any owner and future business. |
|
| |
|
 Veteran
Posts: 211
Location: Vinton, La. | Joleen is kind of busy right now, but I'm sure she would answer anyone's questions. All you have to do is call her. |
|
| |
|
 Expert
Posts: 3782
Location: Gainesville, TX | I disagree with the idea that a stud fee is changed midseason, most particularly if a contract is already signed. If the change is not applied to already signed contracts, while much less of a problem, the raising of the price is still a little odd.
I totally support stallion owners setting their own prices year to year and certainly they have the right to change it midyear too . . . may just not be the best idea for business because many people have a certain perception that at least for one year a stud is priced at one amount. If it changes, even with good reason, it just seems odd. |
|
| |
|
Hugs to You
Posts: 7551
Location: In The Land of Cotton | teed - 2015-03-04 8:03 AM Thoughts on someone that ups the stud fee in the middle of breeding season because his colts started doing good. Totally understand the fees going up the following year but in the middle of breeding season - I wouldn't think that's good business. Jmo
What stud exactly are you talking about?
We can discuss names as long as we all are nice about it. 
|
|
| |
|
Veteran
Posts: 211
Location: Vinton, La. | I'm going to clear something up right now. IF you already mailed your contract back to Joleen, your fee will not go up. It's locked in to what your contract states.
Instead of second guessing and throwing stuff out there, call her. |
|
| |
|
 Regular
Posts: 96
| While changing in mid season isn't common, I have seen it done before. It's a big price jump from what it was and in mid season upping it that much isn't going to make some people happy, but after what he did there will still be a LOT of people willing to pay that. Grant it, the contracts that were locked in at the old price still hold true, it's only new ones booking. I knew his fee would go up, just was thinking it would next year not this year. The beginning of 2014 I had made plans to book one of my mares to him for 2015, I had the money and I had made my mind up..well long story short I won a breeding to another very nice stud through a drawing so held off booking to STF until (I was thinking) 2016....yeah kicking myself in the butt every day for that now. As are I'm sure a few other people who wanted to breed to him. But will I pay that next year? Yes probably, the price increase won't scare me off unless he gets to be higher than ASOF (which he isn't far off now) and then I will go with ASOF since he's got more proven babies. STF's babies aren't proven yet, so makes me less inclined to pay what they are asking now. It's more of a gamble, hoping in the near future those babies go on to really be something, which in that case you have a chunk of 'gold' sitting in your barn.
Edited by theerebel 2015-03-04 12:57 PM
|
|
| |
|
 Cute Little Imp
Posts: 2747
Location: N Texas | Iwish - 2015-03-04 7:15 AM
I know I will get flamed for this but I don't care. I hate when people up stud fees because they have a foal or two that suddenly did something. Or they up it because it's another year... so I should pay another $250 because it's 2015?? I would walk away from that stud. If I ever had a stud (I never will though) his stud fee would never change, even if his foals started to make noise. I know a stud who's fee went up $500 because he moved to the same place a "famous" stud stands at....really?? So again I'm going to pay and extra $500 because he happens to be in the same place so and so is at. But at the end of the day, they own the stud so they can do whatever the hec they want to do and we are just at there mercy.
So you're saying Frenchmans Guy, Corona Cartel, Dash Ta Fame, etc should all have the same stud fee as a two year-old, no-name stud? You have to pay for quality, so once those studs prove they can produce good quality foals, they deserve to have a higher fee. I would be pi$$ed if I had a stud that produced big time winners, and had to charge the same as a crappy stud whose foals couldn't out-perform a donkey. |
|
| |
|
Cute Little Imp
Posts: 2747
Location: N Texas | Iwish - 2015-03-04 8:08 AM
Ah ok I see. So because I won't pay a certain price for something that means I'm a use-less POS of a horse person and I don't deserve to have something. Got it.
Um no, it means you don't appreciate the fact that you have to spend a little more to get a QUALITY product. Just like Sara Jean can charge more for her art than a four-year-old who can only draw stick figures. If you have a quality product, you deserve to charge more for it. |
|
| |
|
Elite Veteran
Posts: 915
Location: SE KS | Bigtime mistake - 2015-03-04 12:48 PM
I'm going to clear something up right now. IF you already mailed your contract back to Joleen, your fee will not go up. It's locked in to what your contract states.
Instead of second guessing and throwing stuff out there, call her.
Unless I missed it somewhere, the OP did not mention the stallion, for all we know it could be a local
to her area stallion!!!
We are just surmising it is Streaking to Fame!!! |
|
| |
|
 Guys Just Wanna Have Fun
Posts: 5530
Location: OH | Jolene has been at this game for a long time and she will know what is in her best interest and act accordingly. She is first class in my book and I cannot see her raising his fee on mares that were already booked, not her nature. If she wants to capitalize on The American---good for her and raise his fee moving forward, her call. Running The American was a huge expense for her, even though he qualified to advance each round it is not like he brought in a ton of money. |
|
| |
|
Veteran
Posts: 276
| Since it has been cleared up that none of the signed contracts have been affected by the increase, I really see no problem whatsoever with the owners raising the fee. Now, it is just up to everyone whether the new fee is worth paying for a breeding to him. He has proven himself, so his fee increased. For some, that will be enough to pay the higher price on the fact that he is such a nice stud himself. For others, they will want to wait and see if his babies are proven winners as well, and if they think they will get to see the babies win before the stud fee increases again, they are taking a huge risk. This should not really be a surprise as he has been winning and placing at a lot of big races over the past several months. I have a colt by him that I purchased last year for what I thought was a lot of money as "just a grandson of DTF" but I bought him after doing a lot of research on STF, thinking to myself that there was a POSSIBILITY that he might be one of the great up and coming sires. I also loved the dam lines of this colt and the colt himself, so I took a chance. I am loving how well STF is doing. I love that his stud fee is increasing and that they are not breeding to 1000 mares per year, and I hope he proves to be a producing sire and to see a large return on my investment after the futurities. |
|
| |
Folks on-line