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Location: ohio-in my own little world with pretty ponies :) | dianeguinn - 2015-03-11 4:14 PM Might also want him to check for EHV-1...she will be running a fever, though, I'm pretty sure, if that's what it is.
I'm going to check her temp when I get home again. |
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 Undercover Amish Mafia Member
Posts: 9991
 
Location: Kansas | lexyy12 - 2015-03-11 3:16 PM dianeguinn - 2015-03-11 4:14 PM Might also want him to check for EHV-1...she will be running a fever, though, I'm pretty sure, if that's what it is. I'm going to check her temp when I get home again.
mesquitos were thick last night when I went to ride...I was getting eaten alive by the darn things. Have you vaccinated her recently for EHV? |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 667
| This sounds exactly like what happened to a gelding I had. But mine happened much quicker. It was a matter of a weak and he lost all of his top line and all hip atropy. It was disgustingly quick. I had the vet come do blood work. He was diagnosed with Immune mediated myositis (IMM). We put him on a heavy dose of steroids and it did liven him up a little but it killed him within a month. I do not mean to be morbid. And I so hope this is not the case for you. But he got down one morning and died in my arms. It is a horrible horrible thing to have and I will never forget it. |
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 Jr. Detective
Location: Beggs, OK | hoofs_in_motion - 2015-03-11 3:17 PM lexyy12 - 2015-03-11 3:16 PM dianeguinn - 2015-03-11 4:14 PM Might also want him to check for EHV-1...she will be running a fever, though, I'm pretty sure, if that's what it is. I'm going to check her temp when I get home again.
You mean WNV...I don't think there's a vaccine for EHV yet. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 667
| Immune Mediated Myositis
What is IMM?
Immune mediated myositis (IMM) is a disorder in which the immune system of horses attacks the skeletal muscles causing rapid atrophy of the muscles along the topline.
What causes IMM?
This immune mediated disease is probably caused by a loss of self tolerance by the immune system to the antigens present on the horse’s own muscle cells. This means that the immune system fails to recognize muscle cells as a part of the body and begins to see them as foreign. Certain infectious agents or possibly vaccines are thought to “trigger” this reaction. The most common disease believed to trigger IMM in the horse is Streptococcus infections. However, in only 40% of IMM cases is an infectious process ever identified.
How common is IMM?
Immune mediated myositis is rare in horses but it is the most common cause of rapid atrophy of the topline in Quarter and Paint horses.
What are the clinical signs?
Rapid loss of muscle mass, usually symmetric, is seen in the back (epaxial) and rump (gluteal) muscles. The atrophy along the horse’s topline typically becomes apparent within one to 3 days. Depression, loss of appetite and stiffness are also seen. If advanced, horses can have difficulty standing.
Are there any groups of horses that are more susceptible to IMM?
Quarter Horses and Paints are the primary breeds affected by IMM, however, Thoroughbreds, ponies, and Icelandic Horses have also been diagnosed with IMM. Horses under the age of 8 years old or over the age of 17 years old are more likely to develop the disease.
How is it diagnosed?
History
Horses with a recent history of respiratory disease or that have had recent exposure to horses with respiratory disease are at higher risk for developing IMM.
Routine diagnostic results
Blood chemistry results will typically show a chronic increase in serum creatine kinase (CK) and aspartate transaminase (AST) of up to 10,000 U/L.
Additional diagnostics
A definitive diagnosis requires muscle biopsies of the gluteal or epaxial muscles, semimembranosus muscle is often normal. Extensive lymphocyte infiltration and mononuclear vasculitis with regenerative and atrophied myofibers are characteristic features of IMM. We recommend submitting several muscle samples; 1) biopsies of atrophied rump/back muscles (can be in formalin using a large gauge trucut) and fresh semimembransus to rule out other diseases.
What are other diseases that look similar to IMM?
Equine Motor Neuron Disease
Malabsorption/cachetic conditions
Cushings disease in older horses
Homozygous for type 1 PSSM
Neurogenic muscle atrophy (trauma)
How is it treated?
IMM is remarkably responsive to corticosteroids. Typical therapy consists of dexamethasone (0.05 mg/kg) for 3 days, followed by prednisolone (1 mg/kg for 7 to 10 days) tapered by 100 mg/week over 1 month. We recommend a CBC be performed and antibiotic therapy is recommended if a leukocytosis, hyperfibrinogenemia or lymphadenopathy is present.
Are there any management strategies that can help a horse with IMM?
Horses recovering from muscle atrophy should be fed a concentrate in addition to hay that is balanced for vitamins and minerals and has high quality protein. (alfalfa hay may help here). If IMM has occurred within a month of vaccination, we recommend spreading out necessary vaccines with at least 6 weeks in between to see if one of these triggers a reaction. S equi vaccines are not generally recommended for horses that have had IMM.
What is the prognosis for a horse with IMM?
IMM usually resolves without long term consequences. Improvement in appetite should occur within 48 hours of steroid therapy, muscle atrophy should stop and then within 2-3 months muscle mass should return. In some cases there may be areas in a muscle that have a permanent divot. Without corticosteroid treatment, atrophy will eventually resolve and return of muscle mass may take a longer period of time.
Some horses may show signs of recrudescence of the syndrome particularly within in a year or two of initial presentation. Call your veterinarian to begin steroid therapy as soon as you notice muscle atrophy. |
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Undercover Amish Mafia Member
Posts: 9991
Location: Kansas | rachellyn80 - 2015-03-11 3:32 PM hoofs_in_motion - 2015-03-11 3:17 PM lexyy12 - 2015-03-11 3:16 PM dianeguinn - 2015-03-11 4:14 PM Might also want him to check for EHV-1...she will be running a fever, though, I'm pretty sure, if that's what it is. I'm going to check her temp when I get home again.
yes that is what I ment |
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Expert
Posts: 2276
Location: ohio-in my own little world with pretty ponies :) | TNcowgirl88 - 2015-03-11 4:34 PM Immune Mediated Myositis
What is IMM?
Immune mediated myositis (IMM) is a disorder in which the immune system of horses attacks the skeletal muscles causing rapid atrophy of the muscles along the topline.
What causes IMM?
This immune mediated disease is probably caused by a loss of self tolerance by the immune system to the antigens present on the horse’s own muscle cells. This means that the immune system fails to recognize muscle cells as a part of the body and begins to see them as foreign. Certain infectious agents or possibly vaccines are thought to “trigger” this reaction. The most common disease believed to trigger IMM in the horse is Streptococcus infections. However, in only 40% of IMM cases is an infectious process ever identified.
How common is IMM?
Immune mediated myositis is rare in horses but it is the most common cause of rapid atrophy of the topline in Quarter and Paint horses.
What are the clinical signs?
Rapid loss of muscle mass, usually symmetric, is seen in the back (epaxial) and rump (gluteal) muscles. The atrophy along the horse’s topline typically becomes apparent within one to 3 days. Depression, loss of appetite and stiffness are also seen. If advanced, horses can have difficulty standing.
Are there any groups of horses that are more susceptible to IMM?
Quarter Horses and Paints are the primary breeds affected by IMM, however, Thoroughbreds, ponies, and Icelandic Horses have also been diagnosed with IMM. Horses under the age of 8 years old or over the age of 17 years old are more likely to develop the disease.
How is it diagnosed?
History
Horses with a recent history of respiratory disease or that have had recent exposure to horses with respiratory disease are at higher risk for developing IMM.
Routine diagnostic results
Blood chemistry results will typically show a chronic increase in serum creatine kinase (CK) and aspartate transaminase (AST) of up to 10,000 U/L.
Additional diagnostics
A definitive diagnosis requires muscle biopsies of the gluteal or epaxial muscles, semimembranosus muscle is often normal. Extensive lymphocyte infiltration and mononuclear vasculitis with regenerative and atrophied myofibers are characteristic features of IMM. We recommend submitting several muscle samples; 1) biopsies of atrophied rump/back muscles (can be in formalin using a large gauge trucut) and fresh semimembransus to rule out other diseases.
What are other diseases that look similar to IMM?
Equine Motor Neuron Disease
Malabsorption/cachetic conditions
Cushings disease in older horses
Homozygous for type 1 PSSM
Neurogenic muscle atrophy (trauma)
How is it treated?
IMM is remarkably responsive to corticosteroids. Typical therapy consists of dexamethasone (0.05 mg/kg) for 3 days, followed by prednisolone (1 mg/kg for 7 to 10 days) tapered by 100 mg/week over 1 month. We recommend a CBC be performed and antibiotic therapy is recommended if a leukocytosis, hyperfibrinogenemia or lymphadenopathy is present.
Are there any management strategies that can help a horse with IMM?
Horses recovering from muscle atrophy should be fed a concentrate in addition to hay that is balanced for vitamins and minerals and has high quality protein. (alfalfa hay may help here). If IMM has occurred within a month of vaccination, we recommend spreading out necessary vaccines with at least 6 weeks in between to see if one of these triggers a reaction. S equi vaccines are not generally recommended for horses that have had IMM.
What is the prognosis for a horse with IMM?
IMM usually resolves without long term consequences. Improvement in appetite should occur within 48 hours of steroid therapy, muscle atrophy should stop and then within 2-3 months muscle mass should return. In some cases there may be areas in a muscle that have a permanent divot. Without corticosteroid treatment, atrophy will eventually resolve and return of muscle mass may take a longer period of time.
Some horses may show signs of recrudescence of the syndrome particularly within in a year or two of initial presentation. Call your veterinarian to begin steroid therapy as soon as you notice muscle atrophy.
I'm sorry for your loss and unfortunately this sounds just like her.
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Expert
Posts: 2276
Location: ohio-in my own little world with pretty ponies :) | Now I'm just trying to decide if I should have my vet come out and check her or have OSU come out. I bet we could get her loaded but I'm worried about her being stable and getting her backed out. The drive is only a few minutes from osu. My vet is cheaper but I'm not sure how educated he is about things like this. |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 336
Location: Missouri | My two cents - having went the local vet to teaching hospital vet route...since you are so close, get her to OSU. If it is indeed something neurological or requires more than basic bloodwork, you are probably going to wind up there anyway. As fast as she went downhill, I would hesitate to take that chance. And, OSU might be more costly today, but if you had to pay your local vet first, then take her there, you aren't saving anything. Best of luck to you on this! |
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 Owner of a ratting catting machine
Posts: 2258
| OSU yesterday!! I hope she turns out okay! |
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Expert
Posts: 2276
Location: ohio-in my own little world with pretty ponies :) | I got her some alfalfa pellets and she is chowing down like no ones business!!!! Calling OSU now |
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Expert
Posts: 1561
Location: North of where I want to be | Is she walking as if her front is on one path & her hind on another? Sorta like she wants to go forward but kind of sideways? |
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Expert
Posts: 2276
Location: ohio-in my own little world with pretty ponies :) | KRJ1791 - 2015-03-11 6:40 PM Is she walking as if her front is on one path & her hind on another? Sorta like she wants to go forward but kind of sideways?
Not exactly. I will try and take a video of her walking this evening. She lifts her hind legs really high in the air, extends and then puts it down. Also, she was very wobbly while standing still, oh and she tripped over herself while walking. |
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 Expert
Posts: 3782
Location: Gainesville, TX | I don't really have anything to add to this; you've gotten lots of good advice. I'd put my money on neurological like most others on here. Prayers for your horse and you too though. It's always tough when one is suffering like that and you don't know what to do. I'm glad you went ahead and called OSU too. Let us know how it goes.  |
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 Take a Picture
Posts: 12838
| mruggles - 2015-03-11 11:51 AM
ccarpe18 - 2015-03-12 10:19 AM Kind of off topic-is there a webiste that has a list of diseases, viruses & the sort listed with symptoms for horses? I've been hearing about A LOT of stuff lately, & I want to be as informed as possible. (& not drive everyone on this forum crazy lol)
http://www.merckmanuals.com/vet/index.html
m
I have had a Merck Vet Manual since 1960. Bought a new one about 4 years ago. If you have horses, it is a necessity.
It sounds to me like this horse has a severe case of EPM. If that is the case you are wasting your time getting it tested. Would probably be most humane to put it down if that is the case. Sorry. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| Any update on the horse, what did the vets say? |
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 Don't Wanna Make This Awkward
Posts: 3106
Location: Texas | Update? |
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 Saint Stacey
| It could be a number of things. I'd add wobblers to the list along with EPM, WNV, toxicity from ingesting something, the list goes on and on. I wouldn't waste time with a local vet unless they are one of the top names. Hopefully you get it figures out soon. Neuro issues are very tricky and expensive. |
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Jr. Detective
Location: Beggs, OK | streakysox - 2015-03-11 9:58 PM mruggles - 2015-03-11 11:51 AM ccarpe18 - 2015-03-12 10:19 AM Kind of off topic-is there a webiste that has a list of diseases, viruses & the sort listed with symptoms for horses? I've been hearing about A LOT of stuff lately, & I want to be as informed as possible. (& not drive everyone on this forum crazy lol) http://www.merckmanuals.com/vet/index.html
m I have had a Merck Vet Manual since 1960. Bought a new one about 4 years ago. If you have horses, it is a necessity. It sounds to me like this horse has a severe case of EPM. If that is the case you are wasting your time getting it tested. Would probably be most humane to put it down if that is the case. Sorry.
That's a bit extreme.
It may be as simple as running some DMSO to relieve the inflammation and treating her for whatever is causing the neurological symptoms. I realize that finances play a part in choosing veterinary care, but in cases like this you have to decide if you want to spend a little more and see if you can save her or just go with your local cheaper guy who can make a guess. |
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 Knowledge is Power
Posts: 4051
Location: wherever my daughter's running | lexyy12 - 2015-03-11 5:31 PM Now I'm just trying to decide if I should have my vet come out and check her or have OSU come out. I bet we could get her loaded but I'm worried about her being stable and getting her backed out. The drive is only a few minutes from osu. My vet is cheaper but I'm not sure how educated he is about things like this.
If you already have your vet set to come and look at your horse would there be a possibility they would work with OSU for things like blood work, etc. If you don't feel the horse can be trailered safely maybe you could explian this to OSU and see if they and your vet would work together. Just a thought. |
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