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Location: Texas | Calangelo - 2015-03-25 6:20 PM EqualRanch - 2015-03-25 5:11 PM barrelracr131 - 2015-03-25 3:25 PM I agree with you FC. I, too, have heard that this practice is extremely uncommon, to the point of being an "almost never" deal.
do I agree with this idea? No, I think it is unethical. However, I think that this practice is not one often done anymore, especially since research has shown a foal is more likely to thrive in the care of the mare that carried it to term.
So, now I have to use this as an opportunity to bit my tongue and keep my thoughts, opinions and sarcasm to myself. I don't understand why people are feeling they need to bite their toungue and feel like they need to not be sarcastic. Even if this is not widespread, it is still happening and it's wrong. That's my opinion anyway.
We do agree it is wrong, as stated in the above post. But, we can't stop it or change it. There are many more forms of animal cruelty, also more frequent, that we can stop or enforce penalties on. Hell, people starve animals to death and only get a slap on the hand. |
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Location: delaWHERE? | I work at a fairly well known vet hospital here on the East Coast and we have a client that runs a nurse mare facility. What she does is turns 30 to 40 mares pretty well bonded mares with foals at their sides and the babies all nurse from each other's moms. It's strange to see for the first time, but when the nurse mares are needed, the babies just continue on nursing from other moms.
What I will say is that they are impeccably cared for. She does a great job and I understand her to be the outlier, but they are out there. |
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 Expert
Posts: 2128
| iloveequine40 - 2015-03-24 8:23 PM
The nurse mares are bred to anything to impregnate them. I'm friends with a rescue specifically for nurse mare foals and the ones they get in are weird crosses. I'm absolutely NOT ok with it. The premarin mares are similar. They keep the mares pregnant and collect the urine all day. As soon as the foals are born they are killed, mare rebred. Premarin is the drug they use to help soothe menopause symptoms.
That. is. Horrible. :( |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
 
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | Scoot - 2015-03-26 8:15 AM I work at a fairly well known vet hospital here on the East Coast and we have a client that runs a nurse mare facility. What she does is turns 30 to 40 mares pretty well bonded mares with foals at their sides and the babies all nurse from each other's moms. It's strange to see for the first time, but when the nurse mares are needed, the babies just continue on nursing from other moms. What I will say is that they are impeccably cared for. She does a great job and I understand her to be the outlier, but they are out there.
What does she do with all the babys ? |
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 Northern Exposure
Posts: 3919
Location: Wasagaming, Manitoba, Canada | I have tried to stay off this thread but now I can't
You guys posting about PMU mares need to get educated on it and quit posting crap. I can almost gurantee none of you have ever set foot in a facility. The industry is extremely regulated I live in an area around many of them http://www.naeric.org/about.asp?strNav=0&strBtn=5... and ALL of my horses have been BOUGHT from pmu operations.
The horse in my avatar is a 1D horse that was a PMU foal. I've been in the facilities and none of this crap you are posting happens in any of them.
The nurse mare thing is a totally different deal.
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 Good Grief!
Posts: 6343
Location: Cap'n Joan Rotgut.....alberta | BBKitamanCutter - 2015-03-27 9:25 AM I have tried to stay off this thread but now I can't
You guys posting about PMU mares need to get educated on it and quit posting crap. I can almost gurantee none of you have ever set foot in a facility. The industry is extremely regulated I live in an area around many of them http://www.naeric.org/about.asp?strNav=0&strBtn=5... and ALL of my horses have been BOUGHT from pmu operations.
The horse in my avatar is a 1D horse that was a PMU foal. I've been in the facilities and none of this crap you are posting happens in any of them.
The nurse mare thing is a totally different deal.
m
Edited by mruggles 2015-03-26 10:37 AM
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | EqualRanch - 2015-03-26 12:22 AM Calangelo - 2015-03-25 6:20 PM EqualRanch - 2015-03-25 5:11 PM barrelracr131 - 2015-03-25 3:25 PM I agree with you FC. I, too, have heard that this practice is extremely uncommon, to the point of being an "almost never" deal.
do I agree with this idea? No, I think it is unethical. However, I think that this practice is not one often done anymore, especially since research has shown a foal is more likely to thrive in the care of the mare that carried it to term.
So, now I have to use this as an opportunity to bit my tongue and keep my thoughts, opinions and sarcasm to myself. I don't understand why people are feeling they need to bite their toungue and feel like they need to not be sarcastic. Even if this is not widespread, it is still happening and it's wrong. That's my opinion anyway.
I guarantee there are more starving horses out there than nurse mare foals being being born every year.
I honestly don't understand why these farms still exist, since it is cheaper and easier to bring a mare into lactation than it is to breed and feed a nurse mare year round...
I don't think anyone is arguing for the merit of this practice, just trying to clarify the details. |
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  Rebel Without a Cause
Posts: 2758
Location: Adopt a homeless pet - www.petfinder.com! | barrelracr131 - 2015-03-26 10:38 AM EqualRanch - 2015-03-26 12:22 AM Calangelo - 2015-03-25 6:20 PM EqualRanch - 2015-03-25 5:11 PM barrelracr131 - 2015-03-25 3:25 PM I agree with you FC. I, too, have heard that this practice is extremely uncommon, to the point of being an "almost never" deal.
do I agree with this idea? No, I think it is unethical. However, I think that this practice is not one often done anymore, especially since research has shown a foal is more likely to thrive in the care of the mare that carried it to term.
So, now I have to use this as an opportunity to bit my tongue and keep my thoughts, opinions and sarcasm to myself. I don't understand why people are feeling they need to bite their toungue and feel like they need to not be sarcastic. Even if this is not widespread, it is still happening and it's wrong. That's my opinion anyway.
I honestly don't understand why these farms still exist, since it is cheaper and easier to bring a mare into lactation than it is to breed and feed a nurse mare year round...
I don't think anyone is arguing for the merit of this practice, just trying to clarify the details.
It still doesn't make either situation acceptable. There needs to be higher penalties for animal cruelty, but that doesn't happen without people advocating for it.
Edited by Calangelo 2015-03-26 11:23 AM
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | No one ever said it was an acceptable practice... in fact, I said the OPPOSITE. 
Having accurate information, however, is always worthwhile. |
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 The Original Cyber Bartender
Location: Washington | barrelracr131 - 2015-03-26 9:42 AM
No one ever said it was an acceptable practice... in fact, I said the OPPOSITE. Having accurate information, however, is always worthwhile.
No kidding.....if you have nurse mares your GUILTY! Not everyone is unethical. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 669
Location: Central Texas | All I can say is I wished I hadn't opened this thread. It makes me so very sad. |
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Veteran
Posts: 113
| Yeah, because if it's on the internet it MUST be true right? Let's just keep getting stupider and stupider :-/ Dispose of dairy calves???? Let PMU foals and mares just die??? Sounds like great business practice....Common sense people, do you think that the majority of these businesses would let a profit "die"??? Get real....Get your information from reliable sources, don't google and believe every article you read.  |
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 Queen Boobie 2
Posts: 7521
| mruggles - 2015-03-26 10:31 AM
BBKitamanCutter - 2015-03-27 9:25 AM  I have tried to stay off this thread but now I can't
You guys posting about PMU mares need to get educated on it and quit posting crap. I can almost gurantee none of you have ever set foot in a facility. The industry is extremely regulated I live in an area around many of them http://www.naeric.org/about.asp?strNav=0&strBtn=5... and ALL of my horses have been BOUGHT from pmu operations.
The horse in my avatar is a 1D horse that was a PMU foal. I've been in the facilities and none of this crap you are posting happens in any of them.
The nurse mare thing is a totally different deal. Thank you....i actually cursed outloud..lol... when i read that garbage about the pmu barn.................... m
Thank you guys for coming on and setting that straight! |
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Queen Boobie 2
Posts: 7521
| MeepMeep - 2015-03-26 12:09 PM
Yeah, because if it's on the internet it MUST be true right? Let's just keep getting stupider and stupider :-/ Dispose of dairy calves???? Let PMU foals and mares just die??? Sounds like great business practice....Common sense people, do you think that the majority of these businesses would let a profit "die"??? Get real....Get your information from reliable sources, don't google and believe every article you read.
Dispose of dairy calves makes me laugh. Yeah they dispose of them for $300 to $500 a head at three days old! Expensive little farts :) |
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Expert
Posts: 3147
| fatchance - 2015-03-25 10:54 AM
livinonlove&horses - 2015-03-25 5:40 AM Â I read an article where a lot of TB goals are raised by nurse mares. Because they are worth so much when they are born and the mare needs to be rebred which requires travel because they won't AI it's too risky to send the foal with the mare. So it is raised by a nurse mare while the mare is shipped for rebreeding
Please direct me to this article. Â I assure you I have never seen this practice.Â
I would think separating a mare from her foal would cause an extreme amount of distress on the mare and coming into heat or being bred would be the last thing on her mind. Separating a mare from her foal just to rebreed sounds like a fairy tale to me. Rachel Alexandra's foal was put on a nurse mare as she had a life threatening infection. Curlin's dam has a deformed/fractured knee so her foals are put on nurse mares as she is unable to care for them. I have also heard of the nurse mares keeping their foal and nursing two foals. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1131
| Maybe I shouldn't have asked....
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The Original Cyber Bartender
Location: Washington | BMW - 2015-03-26 5:39 PM fatchance - 2015-03-25 10:54 AM livinonlove&horses - 2015-03-25 5:40 AM I read an article where a lot of TB goals are raised by nurse mares. Because they are worth so much when they are born and the mare needs to be rebred which requires travel because they won't AI it's too risky to send the foal with the mare. So it is raised by a nurse mare while the mare is shipped for rebreeding Please direct me to this article. I assure you I have never seen this practice. I would think separating a mare from her foal would cause an extreme amount of distress on the mare and coming into heat or being bred would be the last thing on her mind. Separating a mare from her foal just to rebreed sounds like a fairy tale to me. Rachel Alexandra's foal was put on a nurse mare as she had a life threatening infection. Curlin's dam has a deformed/fractured knee so her foals are put on nurse mares as she is unable to care for them. I have also heard of the nurse mares keeping their foal and nursing two foals.
I am for nurse mares incase you didn't understand that.
The bleeding hearts here that truly belive there is a horrid issue with over population due to nurse mares need to see how many QH farms/ranches are using surrogate mares to mass produce one dam. Got to love a dam than can produce litters. I can do this all day long, as a whole there is enough blame to go around, but to say what was said about nurse mares in absolute is unfair. |
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 Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| fatchance - 2015-03-26 9:03 PM BMW - 2015-03-26 5:39 PM fatchance - 2015-03-25 10:54 AM livinonlove&horses - 2015-03-25 5:40 AM I read an article where a lot of TB goals are raised by nurse mares. Because they are worth so much when they are born and the mare needs to be rebred which requires travel because they won't AI it's too risky to send the foal with the mare. So it is raised by a nurse mare while the mare is shipped for rebreeding Please direct me to this article. I assure you I have never seen this practice. I would think separating a mare from her foal would cause an extreme amount of distress on the mare and coming into heat or being bred would be the last thing on her mind. Separating a mare from her foal just to rebreed sounds like a fairy tale to me. Rachel Alexandra's foal was put on a nurse mare as she had a life threatening infection. Curlin's dam has a deformed/fractured knee so her foals are put on nurse mares as she is unable to care for them. I have also heard of the nurse mares keeping their foal and nursing two foals.
The bleeding hearts here that truly belive there is a horrid issue with over population due to nurse mares need to see how many QH farms/ranches are using surrogate mares to mass produce one dam. Got to love a dam than can produce litters. I can do this all day long, as a whole there is enough blame to go around, but to say what was said about nurse mares in absolute is unfair.
Over breeding in any circumstance for any reason is not good. One does not justify the other. I wish all over breeding would stop. I may be considered a bleeding heart for not liking mares being bred just to create orphans but at least I have a heart. This practice is not necessary in today's world. |
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Location: delaWHERE? | Southtxponygirl - 2015-03-26 9:45 AM
Scoot - 2015-03-26 8:15 AM I work at a fairly well known vet hospital here on the East Coast and we have a client that runs a nurse mare facility. What she does is turns 30 to 40 mares pretty well bonded mares with foals at their sides and the babies all nurse from each other's moms. It's strange to see for the first time, but when the nurse mares are needed, the babies just continue on nursing from other moms. What I will say is that they are impeccably cared for. She does a great job and I understand her to be the outlier, but they are out there.
What does she do with all the babys ?Â
She adopts them out or keeps the fillies to be nurse mares themselves. They are nice riding horses, she does a cross of Clydesdale/paints. End up being very solid, very quiet riding horses. Ideal for fox hunting. |
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 Chicken Chick
Posts: 3562
Location: Texas | bennie1 - 2015-03-26 12:21 PM MeepMeep - 2015-03-26 12:09 PM Yeah, because if it's on the internet it MUST be true right? Let's just keep getting stupider and stupider :-/ Dispose of dairy calves???? Let PMU foals and mares just die??? Sounds like great business practice....Common sense people, do you think that the majority of these businesses would let a profit "die"??? Get real....Get your information from reliable sources, don't google and believe every article you read. Dispose of dairy calves makes me laugh. Yeah they dispose of them for $300 to $500 a head at three days old! Expensive little farts : )
Not around here. We were picking up trailer loads for next to nothing ($25-$75 a calf depending on where we went, some of them would cut us a break on sickly ones also just to get them gone). Some of the places we went did give colostrum, some didn't. Some of the calves we picked up weren't even completely dry. Some were very healthy for dairy calves, some I asked my husband "What were you thinking?" lol. We ran about 100 bottle calves through our place one summer. We lost around 5. |
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