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 "Hottie"
Posts: 1373
  
Location: Okemah,OK | It may have changed but eBay had gone to a system where sellers couldn't rate buyers. They really shut them out for pointing out shady buyers. I can't remember if a seller can still do a rebuttal but they became extremely buyer oriented. Not sure which way would be better for a site like this??? | |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 331
Location: Loma Linda, CA | It's because of stuff like this that I am absolutely TERRIFIED of buying any horses outside of where I am.
So far, I have been very lucky with my horses. I have bought 3 fillies in the last few months with no issues from very reputable people. I bought 2 from Tomas Garcilazo (he's the guy that rides the palomino with the gorgeous long mane at the NFR) and a now 2 year old from a local reining trainer here and most recently the paint in my profile picture from another barrel racer.
I'm one of those that doesn't normally vet check (shame on me, but so far no issues lol). I think if I were buying a finished horse that was 1-2D I probably would vet check with x-rays, but so far none of them have been too huge of an investment minus my paint. She is the most expensive horse I own lol.
It really absolutely sucks that people do this.
Most recently I was selling a filly, I didn't immediately disclose her issues in my ad, but always disclosed when contacted. Eventually, I did put it in the ad because people were thinking the worst of me. I ended up selling my filly to a 19 year old girl who loves her and has done all the vet work - turned out to be cellulitis  Super easy fix. She got a nice prospect for a good price lol.
I really don't understand people. | |
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I AM being nice
Posts: 4396
Location: MD | doglady - 2016-01-08 7:33 PM
I think this is going to be a nightmare. I see people that buy horses that they can't ride or don't keep the everything the same as the person that was winning on the horse. So then they blame the seller when the horse probably was not missrepresented as much as the buyer buying above their level. I agree there are some sellers that are very dishonest but how to keep this from becoming a witch hunt.
I'm with doglady on this. I am very honest when selling horses. I'll give you every piece of information there is regarding a horse's history, be it health, performance, quirks, etc... Years ago, we had a very nice gelding who was Top 3 in the Nation in the Hunter Hack a couple of years in a row. He was sold to a very high end H/J program. Obviously, this horse commanded a substantial purchase price and the barn that he sold into was very successful and well respected. They were given very detailed information with regards to feeding, his turnout program, frequency and length of rides, all of it. Of course, the H/J folks like a horse far heavier than the stock breed folks do.
About 2.5 or 3 months after the sale, we received a phone call, saying that the horse all of a sudden had turned into a nasty bronc. In all of the years that he had been in our program, this horse had never so much as had a knot in his back. Myself and another assistant headed up there a couple of days later to check out the situation. Upon seeing the horse in his stall, we both gasped. In the short time that he had been there, the horse had gained right about 250 lbs. His hay rack was filled with some of the most beautiful alfalfa that I had ever seen. When asked what they had done to put so much weight on him so quickly, we found out that his feed intake had been increased drastically. He was eating 1.5 times the amount of grain that he had been, the protein levels were significantly higher and he was receiving 20 or so lbs of alfalfa a day, in addition to his orchard grass. To top it off, he was only being ridden three days a week and for twenty or 30 minutes, at best. I couldn't help but to shrug my shoulders and ask them why they were so surprised that the horse was bucking what with the major increase of food, decrease in riding and almost total elimination of turnout.
A few years back now, I sold a 5 year old locally. Nice mare, very quiet, push style, only going to go as fast as you ask her, to the point that if you just went into the alley and dropped your hand a bit, she would no more than lope through the pattern. At the time that I had sold her, the mare was quite consistently placing in the 2D and would slip into the 1D in the Youth every now and then. When the buyer came to try the mare, we tacked her up with the person's saddle and I got on to show the horse. The buyer's saddle was a flex tree and didn't set super well on the mare, but didn't seem tragic. I walked and trotted around, but the instant that I picked up the lope, I could feel the saddle flexing and bottoming out on the mare's back. Good girl that she was, the mare did not react, but I stopped and explained the fit issue. We swapped to one of my saddles on her, I proceeded to take her through the pattern and then, the buyer rode her. The mare sold that day and before leaving, the buyer and I were discussing saddle options.
A few months later, we ran into the mare's new owner at a barrel race. She said that the mare had been acting like she wanted to buck during open arena. I had a string of horses to exhibition, but told her to bring the mare up and I would get on her as soon as I was done. Sure enough, still that same saddle. I didn't even get on her. I sent her to my trailer, had her put one of mine on and the mare was great. I again emphasized how poorly the saddle fitted the mare and that she was going to cripple her if she continued to ride in it. Eleven months after the sale, I received an irate message, informing me that I had knowingly sold a horse who had kissing spine. I called and discovered that the horse hadn't been diagnosed with kissing spine, at all. It had been brought up as a possibility, but no x rays had been taken. The poor mare's back was a wreck. Here I was, almost a year after the sale of a horse who had never belonged to me, being screamed at by a woman who had caused the damage to said horse. She demanded that I buy the mare back, or trade her for something else. When I refused, she called the previous owners who told her much the same. For years now, she will still tell people that I knowingly sold her a cripple.
I'm not adverse to the idea of some sort of way of providing information about sellers, but I think that a rating system is far too easily skewed. | |
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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| i have bought many horses over a phone call or internet. never got something that was cripple. some have managable problems if it is a vet problem fix it, if it is a saddle problem, change saddles. i see people on here buying saddles after saddles for there horse i wonder some time they think the back soreness that could come from hock,stifles and other thing being thought as saddle problems. i know people who have 10 pair of boots for them will not inject hocks on there horse. i see videos on here every day with horses not working on there rear proballby needs maintaince. thats the difference between people who win and people who dont. after while a horse that is sore is either not gonna run enough to make himself hurt, not gonna go thru gate, or sling there but so they dont have to hurt. buying horses off this site if you are not an experianced let someone look at the video maybe they can spot a lameness or notice something wrong. if you are paying a good amount of money get a vet check.
Edited by daisycake123 2016-01-09 6:01 AM
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  Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
 
Location: Florida.. | when we train our horses we always put the working students on them to make sure the horse is adaptable.. we also when perspective buyers come match up the right pair. we take a few days and give lessons on a few horses that are compatible. we give all information and levels and where the horse might top off at.. Amatuar or professional levels.when people spend the amount of money on our horses we want them to be solid..and what they are wanting..but the horse must be the right fit ..
we try not to overmount the buyers because in the end the horses suffer..
most matches do well.. some come back in a few months needing tuned up.. of course meaning... buyer messed horse up or for whatver reason.. we certainly dont place blame and most buyers dont either.. and we expect for issues the horse could come back if buyer overmounts and we spend a lil time reteaching or will try to find other alternatives ..we certainly dont want horse or rider unhappy.. but 9 times out of 10 its the buyer..I to agree with doglady , at some point the buyers must realize its not always the sellers.. of course there are exceptions.. lots.... but when we send out a horse its solid .. and when it comes back totally frazzled we know something isnt right with the horses situation at home.. what im saying is do homework , follow advice , listen to horse and the sellers and ask lots of questions and ride the horse few times .. make sure its the program you want.. and your goals are attainable with that horse.. or its not to much horse for you.
Edited by Bibliafarm 2016-01-09 7:58 AM
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 Barrel Horse World News
Posts: 64
| Thanks for everyone's input.
One of the things that make BHW classifieds unique is this forum. Valuable information is exchanged, either publicly or in private messages to help sort out the "bad" sellers.
One of the most immediate solutions might be right here . . . allowing more of you the opportunity to review and report your experiences, both good and bad in our forums. | |
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Mrs. Troy
Location: western Nebraska | doglady - 2016-01-08 7:33 PM I think this is going to be a nightmare. I see people that buy horses that they can't ride or don't keep the everything the same as the person that was winning on the horse. So then they blame the seller when the horse probably was not missrepresented as much as the buyer buying above their level. I agree there are some sellers that are very dishonest but how to keep this from becoming a witch hunt.
I hesitated to even say anything but buying a horse isn't like buying a saddle or lamp on eBay. A horse is your next partner and it takes two to dance. I see the ads you all are talking about and they have some very good bred, good looking horses at cheap prices. You get what you pay for generally. If it looks too good to be true it usually is. Good, solid horses cost a lot to make them that way. If you don't want to spend the time on one then you are going to pay someone else for doing it and their horse won't be cheap. Yes there are a few bargins out there if you know how to find them or you are good at fixing but most people aren't. So many barrel racers are buying the dream without realizing what it takes to keep that top horse at the level they bought. If you aren't knowledgeable enough to know what you need and can ride then pay someone you trust to help you find the perfect partner you can dance with. When you are looking to buy out of your area read the results to see names of people you can call about a horse. But call several to make sure you are getting a fair assessment of a horse and a seller. And one more thing. When you are vetting a horse I hear all the time about NOT taking a horse to the regular vet. Why would you not want to go to the vet that has been taking of that horse and doing the maintence on him so you can continue? My vet is the greatest guy. I have X-rays and regular Chiro and maintence records that I would release on my horses to make sure you can keep them at the level they are at when you buy them. Am I the only one that feels like this?
Edited by doglady 2016-01-09 10:09 AM
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 I Am Always Right
Posts: 4264
Location: stray dump capital of the world | doglady - 2016-01-09 10:08 AM doglady - 2016-01-08 7:33 PM I think this is going to be a nightmare. I see people that buy horses that they can't ride or don't keep the everything the same as the person that was winning on the horse. So then they blame the seller when the horse probably was not missrepresented as much as the buyer buying above their level. I agree there are some sellers that are very dishonest but how to keep this from becoming a witch hunt. I hesitated to even say anything but buying a horse isn't like buying a saddle or lamp on eBay. A horse is your next partner and it takes two to dance. I see the ads you all are talking about and they have some very good bred, good looking horses at cheap prices. You get what you pay for generally. If it looks too good to be true it usually is. Good, solid horses cost a lot to make them that way. If you don't want to spend the time on one then you are going to pay someone else for doing it and their horse won't be cheap. Yes there are a few bargins out there if you know how to find them or you are good at fixing but most people aren't. So many barrel racers are buying the dream without realizing what it takes to keep that top horse at the level they bought. If you aren't knowledgeable enough to know what you need and can ride then pay someone you trust to help you find the perfect partner you can dance with. When you are looking to buy out of your area read the results to see names of people you can call about a horse. But call several to make sure you are getting a fair assessment of a horse and a seller. And one more thing. When you are vetting a horse I hear all the time about NOT taking a horse to the regular vet. Why would you not want to go to the vet that has been taking of that horse and doing the maintence on him so you can continue? My vet is the greatest guy. I have X-rays and regular Chiro and maintence records that I would release on my horses to make sure you can keep them at the level they are at when you buy them. Am I the only one that feels like this?
I have to agree with this. My last 2 purchases, I went with the vet on record. Both clinics were very open, forwarded all X-rays and info back to my vet before I paid. | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 326
| I like this idea. A honest seller has nothing to worry about. I don't think anyone should wait 2 or 3 months to give a rating. That's to long. I have bought other horses off BHW and the other sellers were 100% honest. I just think BHW needs a way to weed out bad sellers. The rating should be done within a week. When you receive a horse you know within that time or before whether you were lied to or not. | |
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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| i bought on here last year, it was represented fairly and is tirning out nicely. horse was very athethletic and nice ground manners are wonderful.honestly mare was a tad bit greener than i expected, but is way quiet, like when i saddle just drop the rope and ground hold her. acks on the ground like a 20 year old horse. she was also advertised as 15 hand she is 15.1 and 1300 lb. butn i am sure i can practice running barrels like 6 times everyday for a month while feeding her 4 pads alfalfa and 3 pads hay and no turn out. but on this mare i dont think you can blow her up. to tell you how truly amazing this horse is. last summer about july i started working the barrelpattern all i had is hard ground and grass. worked her about 4 or 5 weeks ground hard enough cant lope. went to a show and exhibitioned her she ran like a 22. changed her bit and put a soft rope nosband on her she dropped 2 seconds and lkoope thru and turned looked like a barrel horse. two week latter went a an indoor and she loped thru like she had been doing for a while. fast fwd didnot get her out anymore and about 1 month later i get a sinus infectiin and keep all winter and about a month ago i got back on her and she is still the same, needs a little refresher course on a couple of things. cant wait to start again. be3st 3500.00 i ever spent. dolly corona i love you. she is waiting by the gait every dsy for me. she is a 1300 lb dog. i would put any child on her, she will not take advantiage.
Edited by daisycake123 2016-04-29 8:39 PM
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Cold hands and Warm Heart
Location: oklahoma | doglady - 2016-01-09 10:08 AM doglady - 2016-01-08 7:33 PM I think this is going to be a nightmare. I see people that buy horses that they can't ride or don't keep the everything the same as the person that was winning on the horse. So then they blame the seller when the horse probably was not missrepresented as much as the buyer buying above their level. I agree there are some sellers that are very dishonest but how to keep this from becoming a witch hunt. I hesitated to even say anything but buying a horse isn't like buying a saddle or lamp on eBay. A horse is your next partner and it takes two to dance. I see the ads you all are talking about and they have some very good bred, good looking horses at cheap prices. You get what you pay for generally. If it looks too good to be true it usually is. Good, solid horses cost a lot to make them that way. If you don't want to spend the time on one then you are going to pay someone else for doing it and their horse won't be cheap. Yes there are a few bargins out there if you know how to find them or you are good at fixing but most people aren't. So many barrel racers are buying the dream without realizing what it takes to keep that top horse at the level they bought. If you aren't knowledgeable enough to know what you need and can ride then pay someone you trust to help you find the perfect partner you can dance with. When you are looking to buy out of your area read the results to see names of people you can call about a horse. But call several to make sure you are getting a fair assessment of a horse and a seller. And one more thing. When you are vetting a horse I hear all the time about NOT taking a horse to the regular vet. Why would you not want to go to the vet that has been taking of that horse and doing the maintence on him so you can continue? My vet is the greatest guy. I have X-rays and regular Chiro and maintence records that I would release on my horses to make sure you can keep them at the level they are at when you buy them. Am I the only one that feels like this?
I agree with you. Besides, what I like and can handle isn't on someone else's level or interest. Hard to rate someone from such different perspectives.
A few years ago, I bought a jack of all trades from bhw, sight unseen. I watched a few videos and talked to the seller but I think most importantly, I sent pms and researched the seller. I hate that this happened to you, op and am not blaming you one bit. Hoping that these threads like yours helps all of us as we bounce ideas and experiences off of each other. | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 509
| i recently bought a horse which i love who the owner really thought was broke there style of riding is cowboy one and run hard set hard and pull around the barrels. I don't ride this way i like them turning with fingertip control and i have the patience and time i am in no hurry.i do my best to educate one. This horse had been broke and trained to run barrels all in one year, so he had a few things lacking in his basics the previous owners have been very offended that i restarted there horse i just can't ride that way and i love the horse. They are very offended. Sometimes people have different ideas of broke some can jockey an unbroke horse and make it look good, i can't!! He turned on his front end that drives me crazy. | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 926
| CurlyQ - 2016-01-09 7:41 PM
doglady - 2016-01-09 10:08 AM doglady - 2016-01-08 7:33 PM I think this is going to be a nightmare. I see people that buy horses that they can't ride or don't keep the everything the same as the person that was winning on the horse. So then they blame the seller when the horse probably was not missrepresented as much as the buyer buying above their level. I agree there are some sellers that are very dishonest but how to keep this from becoming a witch hunt. I hesitated to even say anything but buying a horse isn't like buying a saddle or lamp on eBay. A horse is your next partner and it takes two to dance. I see the ads you all are talking about and they have some very good bred, good looking horses at cheap prices. You get what you pay for generally. If it looks too good to be true it usually is. Good, solid horses cost a lot to make them that way. If you don't want to spend the time on one then you are going to pay someone else for doing it and their horse won't be cheap. Yes there are a few bargins out there if you know how to find them or you are good at fixing but most people aren't. So many barrel racers are buying the dream without realizing what it takes to keep that top horse at the level they bought. If you aren't knowledgeable enough to know what you need and can ride then pay someone you trust to help you find the perfect partner you can dance with. When you are looking to buy out of your area read the results to see names of people you can call about a horse. But call several to make sure you are getting a fair assessment of a horse and a seller. And one more thing. When you are vetting a horse I hear all the time about NOT taking a horse to the regular vet. Why would you not want to go to the vet that has been taking of that horse and doing the maintence on him so you can continue? My vet is the greatest guy. I have X-rays and regular Chiro and maintence records that I would release on my horses to make sure you can keep them at the level they are at when you buy them. Am I the only one that feels like this?
A few years ago, I bought a jack of all trades from bhw, sight unseen. I watched a few videos and talked to the seller but I think most importantly, I sent pms and researched the seller. I hate that this happened to you, op and am not blaming you one bit. Hoping that these threads like yours helps all of us as we bounce ideas and experiences off of each other.
It is a slippery slope, especially for barrel horses. If the horse is competitive, even 2/3D, and it's advertised at a very good price and it says 'no vices/completely sound', run. I don't think there is one out there that has no vices and is completely sound. I have bought so much crap over the years, I started to finally look in the mirror to see if I had 'sucker' printed on my forehead. And I think about the poor horses, unsound, in pain most likely, and going to someone unaware of what to look for or what to do.
I finally started to vet check beyond just a trot up and down at the vet. Spent a ton of money on extensive vet checks on horses that I didn't buy. Got burned on one that I bought out of state and found the 'best leg vet in the country' to vet check close to the seller. Found a few manageable leg issues, only problem was he didn't catch the back issue....guess he only did legs.
Best good horse I think I ever had came site unseen in a straight across trade that my trainer arranged for me, no vet check but she knew the horse and the vet that treated him. Own son of Bully Bullion, looked just like his dad. Awesome on the road and in the barrel pen, however, the vice list was: tries to kill other horses and is a cribbing machine. My granddaughter has him, he's 21, looks and runs like he's 15, clocks in the 1D/2D locally.....and I think he's pulled off most of the top wood rails on my daughter's fences!
I've come to think the good ones always have some quirk or the other...so I guess we should look for the ad that says: 1D horse, pricey, relatively sound, needs maintenance, less than 5 vices. Then you'd know you had an honest seller!
And thanks to all the honest sellers who tell you what is wrong, and offer to help you, like wrap snap. If only there were more of you.
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | I was looking at a horse too, and then remember about the KY sellers I could not remember their names so had to look this thread up, I like that mare too {The Woodbridge}, thought I knew her from somewhere...
Edited by Southtxponygirl 2016-04-22 2:17 PM
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 Veteran
Posts: 173
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow | Looks like this thread may have done some good, at least on this site. I don't see any horses currently listed.
I did purchase a horse from them last year. The horse was not broke as the description stated. Other than that, I was lucky. She was in great shape and sound etc...I got lucky though and I would never do that again. | |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 929
| There is a local seller in my area that does this. She sells a lot of horses but I figure if you can't keep from cheating on your SO...then you will certainly cheat me in buying a horse! I won't be purchasing one from her. If you are of loose moral character in one area, you are likely to be the same in others, IMO. | |
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 IMA No Hair Style Gal
Posts: 2594
| I am not far....never hesitate to pm me for info on the horses!!!! I have one from them...but was an indirect sell, he went through 5 people before I got him in one years time. Has taken 2 years to get him right. But before I bought him for $500 bucks I did my homework and contacted the breeders. Pieced together his story, and the homes he went through. I knew going into it I was either getting something crazy or unsound....turns out it was none of the above just a terrified horse who had been through lord only knows what. He will live out his days in my barn. I will make sure this horse never goes through whatever it was he went through again. When you realize someone is a horse trader just know that you HAVE to do your homework. It is a shame that people do these things to others, if you are spending money that is a large amount to you, you must always protect your investment and do your homework. I hate that people continue to get jipped, but I also feel so sorry for the horses. :-( They suffer the most. | |
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 Wishing I were a Wildcat
Location: 'Hawk Country | Not just in performance horse world. A friend bought a team of draft horses from an online ad. The ad and pictures were of black Clydesdales. What got off the truck were starved Belgins. I can't believe they survived the trip, they were so thin.
Same story, wouldn't answer phone or texts. I told him to get his lawyer and get them. His lawyer doesn't know what to do, especially across several state lines. My friend is just living with it. I told him he needed to get a lawyer who knew what he was doing otherwise these people would just keep doing it to others.
They answered the phone when he borrowed someone else's but hung up as soon as they realized who,it was. | |
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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| i sold a 4 year old on her through a friend of mine her son got him running barrels, he was really quiet a real dead head. the lady that bought him i never met but she was not a good rider. she got him home about 6 weeks later i get a call from a screaming lady that my horse no her horse bucked her off. that horse never buck from day i got him, i saddled in as a 2 yo put in round pen no buck acked like he had been riden, i have a very bad back, so i sent off to a guy for almost 90 days, he kept him in a stall the whole time and also feed alfalfa, horse came back great looking he said he never bucker, also the guy who trained him on barrels no buck the alsways had kides at there house and they would let them ride him. but i think the lady who was heavy bounced on his back and hurt him or either they kept him in a stall and over fed him, or either run him 5 or 6 times to learn how to ride him and he acted out. but nobody who had ridden him ever seen him and acted out. accept the lady who bought him. never thought she could have been riding him in a saddle that pinched him and or a bit or some gear that hurt him. i think her being heavy and maybe had a malfitting saddle and too much practise.
Edited by daisycake123 2016-04-23 6:24 AM
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Expert
Posts: 3514
| There is another one on here too. Burned me on a unsound horse from North Carolina | |
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Folks on-line