|
|
 Expert
Posts: 4121
 
Location: SE Louisiana | FlyingHigh1454 - 2016-04-18 11:29 AM
GraciousLegacy - 2016-04-18 10:52 AM
Ashton94 - 2016-04-18 6:16 AM bobbyjosocks - 2016-04-17 7:00 PM streakysox - 2016-04-16 7:00 PM FLITASTIC - 2016-04-16 2:13 PM komet. - 2016-04-16 12:03 PM della - 2016-04-16 1:53 PM streakysox - 2016-04-16 11:40 AM FLITASTIC - 2016-04-16 11:20 AM Its not as simple as anatomy. It would be difficult for me to explain the intricacies of human sexuality on this board but being transgendered is not the same as being gay/homosexual. Gay women don't mind using women's restrooms. Same for gay men. When someone is transgendered their mind does not match their body. For all you women , what if you woke up tomorrow morning and your mind was still female but you now have a penis. Female in every way except that extra part. Those people simply want to be able to use a restroom that fits their identity not necessarily their anatomy. Hope that makes some sense. And NO it's not a choice to be gay straight or transgendered. Many of these people would never choose that if it was a choice. What is to stop a pervert in a dress from going in with my 8 year old daughter? What is to stop a pervert with pants from going in with your 8 year old son.... BAM!! Della nailed it!!! Exactly. A pervert is a pervert. There are female perverts and male ones. A female perv could just as easily go in with your daughter. This is true and probably the best point in favor of letting trans gender folks go into women's restroom. I really don't care. Those guys in the mens' room certainly were courteous when I barged in there at Walmart. I was in a hurry. Why would you let your 8 yr old child go in a public bathroom alone? I wouldnt. Besides a male transgender (dressed as a female ) is NOT going to be interested in your little girl. They are females born in a male body. Period. They are NOT gay. "They are females born in a male body." But how does that even work??? It's like you're saying God made a mistake when he created them. His wonderful work leaves no room for mistakes; no one is born with the “wrong body".
In situations like this, they will 9/10 give them female anatomy. I've heard it said before on the topic that it's easier to make a hole than to make a pole.
There have always been birth defects... I'm old enough I remember growing around the Thalidomide babies. .... This is about sexual deviants.... What part of the opening statement did you NOT understand?
"... If you have a penis, you go to the men's room. If you have a vagina, you go to the women's room..." This child was born (according to you) with neither. I was born unable to speak.... what's your point? | |
| | |
 Lady Di
Posts: 21556
   
Location: Oklahoma | komet. - 2016-04-16 1:21 PM
astreakinchic - 2016-04-16 12:36 PM
Frodo - 2016-04-16 12:37 PM
I used to work for a mental health facility.  Alex/Alexis looked exactly as much like a woman as Klinger from MASH did.  Yet "it" dressed in mini-skirts, high heels, silk blouses AND used the ladies restroom.  We did not like that but luckily it only appeared at our facility once or twice a month. 
I find these are the ones that live in small towns or are just weird outliers LOL
Most transgender men look better than me and could def give me some fierce make up tips! The thing in my area (its kinda heavy gay/transgender population ) is that you won't be able to tell Bill from Betty and they just already use the female bathroom anyway. No one knows the difference because they are *desecrate* and don't draw attention at all to the fact that they aren't a women because they want to be recognized as a woman, not a woman that was once a man.
Beauty is only skin deep... yours stand out!! and just because I'm a grammar Nazi.. *discrete*
Actually, since I'm a retired English teacher, it's spelled discreet.
 | |
| | |
  Fact Checker
Posts: 16575
Location: Displaced Iowegian | dianeguinn - 2016-04-19 5:19 PM komet. - 2016-04-16 1:21 PM astreakinchic - 2016-04-16 12:36 PM Frodo - 2016-04-16 12:37 PM I used to work for a mental health facility. Alex/Alexis looked exactly as much like a woman as Klinger from MASH did. Yet "it" dressed in mini-skirts, high heels, silk blouses AND used the ladies restroom. We did not like that but luckily it only appeared at our facility once or twice a month.
I find these are the ones that live in small towns or are just weird outliers LOL Most transgender men look better than me and could def give me some fierce make up tips! The thing in my area (its kinda heavy gay/transgender population ) is that you won't be able to tell Bill from Betty and they just already use the female bathroom anyway. No one knows the difference because they are *desecrate* and don't draw attention at all to the fact that they aren't a women because they want to be recognized as a woman, not a woman that was once a man. Beauty is only skin deep... yours stand out!! and just because I'm a grammar Nazi.. *discrete* Actually, since I'm a retired English teacher, it's spelled discreet.
 I was going to post that Diane but I didn't want Komet to go off "bat sh*t crazy......... LOL | |
| | |
 Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | why is this a issue now? because bruce did it and won a award?
| |
| | |
I AM being nice
Posts: 4396
Location: MD | For those of you who have never had any experience with a transgendered individual and all that goes into "transitioning", I can promise you that the process is far more involved than simply a person dressing as the opposite gender. Yes, transgender is a psychiatric disorder. Actually, it is the only psychiatric disorder for which the only known cure is a physical surgery. In order to legally transition, get specific surgeries, receive identification with your new identity, etc... a person undergoes much psychiatric evaluation, counseling and the like. An individual must also live for a year as their new gender, all the while under supervision of mental health providers, to ensure that they are transitioning well and correctly. This is not simply a matter of a man deciding to slip on a dress, or a woman bandaging her chest down. | |
| | |
 Veteran
Posts: 101
| komet. - 2016-04-16 5:26 AM
...where the confusion lays. If you have a penis, you go to the men's room. If you have a vagina, you go to the women's room.... If it's a porta-toilet you step in and lock the door behind you... Wh.Whe...Where is the confusion? Am I missing something?
This discredits the folks who are intersex. If you are born both where do you go? | |
| | |
Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | WrapSnap - 2016-04-19 11:45 PM For those of you who have never had any experience with a transgendered individual and all that goes into "transitioning", I can promise you that the process is far more involved than simply a person dressing as the opposite gender. Yes, transgender is a psychiatric disorder. Actually, it is the only psychiatric disorder for which the only known cure is a physical surgery. In order to legally transition, get specific surgeries, receive identification with your new identity, etc... a person undergoes much psychiatric evaluation, counseling and the like. An individual must also live for a year as their new gender, all the while under supervision of mental health providers, to ensure that they are transitioning well and correctly. This is not simply a matter of a man deciding to slip on a dress, or a woman bandaging her chest down. Thats correct.. I think most of the people not wanting this legalized is due to the many perverts out there that will "pretend" they are to just get in that bathroom and noone can say a thing because its "legal" .. if this pervert harmed a child or was attmepting to without proof a police can do nothing because its legal for them to be in there.. Just to clarify.. this is not a transgender pervert..the transgender isnt what has others that I have talked to concerned.. I dont think anyway..
Edited by Bibliafarm 2016-04-19 11:00 PM
| |
| | |
I AM being nice
Posts: 4396
Location: MD | Bibliafarm - 2016-04-19 10:58 PM
WrapSnap - 2016-04-19 11:45 PM For those of you who have never had any experience with a transgendered individual and all that goes into "transitioning", I can promise you that the process is far more involved than simply a person dressing as the opposite gender. Yes, transgender is a psychiatric disorder. Actually, it is the only psychiatric disorder for which the only known cure is a physical surgery. In order to legally transition, get specific surgeries, receive identification with your new identity, etc... a person undergoes much psychiatric evaluation, counseling and the like. An individual must also live for a year as their new gender, all the while under supervision of mental health providers, to ensure that they are transitioning well and correctly. This is not simply a matter of a man deciding to slip on a dress, or a woman bandaging her chest down. Thats correct.. I think most of the people not wanting this legalized is due to the many perverts out there that will "pretend" they are to just get in that bathroom and noone can say a thing because its "legal" .. if  this pervert harmed a child or was attmepting to without proof a police can do nothing because its legal for them to be in there..  Just to clarify.. this is not a transgender pervert..the transgender isnt what has others that I have talked to concerned.. I dont think anyway..
There has to be legal documentation. If you are far enough long in a transition, you will have been issued new identification. Say there was a question concerning something that were to happen in the bathroom, if you can't provide proper identification upon request, you're behind is in a sling. This has been the norm for some time. Even most of my female illusionist friends (who have no desire to be women) have identification with them both in and out of drag. | |
| | |
I'm Over It!!
Posts: 2830
| Bibliafarm - 2016-04-19 10:41 PM why is this a issue now? because bruce did it and won a award?
Yes! And he is the exact reason that this is a problem. Because even though he has morphed into the opposite sex he claims he is still "into" women. He is one who should not be allowed to mingle in women's restrooms.
But sadly the only logical solution to the problem is to force businesses to return to single occupancy restrooms. And create lines waiting to go.
Furthermore the idiocy of concert professionals canceling concerts in deference to these laws should be an indication of why people should not base their oppions on the leadership of these people. | |
| | |
 Expert
Posts: 5293
| WrapSnap - 2016-04-19 8:45 PM
For those of you who have never had any experience with a transgendered individual and all that goes into "transitioning", I can promise you that the process is far more involved than simply a person dressing as the opposite gender. Yes, transgender is a psychiatric disorder. Actually, it is the only psychiatric disorder for which the only known cure is a physical surgery. In order to legally transition, get specific surgeries, receive identification with your new identity, etc... a person undergoes much psychiatric evaluation, counseling and the like. An individual must also live for a year as their new gender, all the while under supervision of mental health providers, to ensure that they are transitioning well and correctly. This is not simply a matter of a man deciding to slip on a dress, or a woman bandaging her chest down.
Thanks for explaining. I was trying to do it as best as I could and just decided to stay out of the conversation. We have folks on here from all over the country. Some areas more aware of these types of issues and others that live in places that haven't changed in 300 years. Its all good and for some it is a difficult thing to understand. I am from Southern California and these issues (Gender) are in my field so I see it every day. | |
| | |
Expert
Posts: 5293
| Kaitlyn19 - 2016-04-19 8:57 PM
komet. - 2016-04-16 5:26 AM
...where the confusion lays. If you have a penis, you go to the men's room. If you have a vagina, you go to the women's room.... If it's a porta-toilet you step in and lock the door behind you... Wh.Whe...Where is the confusion? Am I missing something?
This discredits the folks who are intersex. If you are born both where do you go?
Let me see if I can explain the difference now between transgendered and Being born with both sex organs ( Hermaphrodite). Trans people are genetically correct being male or female and are born with the genitals to match their genetic make up. The only problem, is a problem of the MIND in these people. They are born one way but their MIND ONLY is the opposite of the body parts. People who are born with both have a genetic issue. SOme are born with an extra "Y" chromosome, some are born with an extra "X". ALL women carry eggs with only an "X" chromosome, males carry sperm of both X and Y. Depending on which get to the egg first determines the sex of the child. XX=girl XY=Boy. Sometimes sperm malfunction and they actually carry BOTH an X and Y, or 2 X's or 2Y's. In this case XXY= female looking but has small male genitals as well. YYX= mostly male with a small undeveloped vagina and Penis. OK, so what does this all mean??? Back in the day a child born with both , the parents could CHOOSE to raise the child male or female. Doctors believed that a childs gender could be shaped and molded by socialization. We know this not to be the case. These children are born with MALE or FEMALE MINDS.... Its impossible to tell at birth if a childs mind identifies as female or male. Doctors now advise parents to raise the child unisex and at puberty they will see which the childs MIND identifies with. The person can then have surgery to make the body and Mind MATCH. Hope that helps. Trans people have COMPLETE gender reassignment surgery. Meaning they had not both parts, but a totally functioning normal male or female anatomy that they are changing to the other gender. | |
| | |
 Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
| I recently listened to a speaker about LGBT community and I found it extremely informative. Although I see both sides to this issue, what I found interesting is statistically speaking a person born with both parts (in some way shape for form, whether external parts or internal parts) is just as common as someone giving birth to a redhead when neither parent have red hair. I don't know why I found that so interesting but the speaker talked about the difference between gender and sexuality. How females and males are shaped from day one to behave in their gender. For example, pink clothing, long hair, play w/ dolls or kitchen sets, being told they will be a nurse or some type of profession involving caretaking. While males are dressed in blue, have short hair and are often told they are tough and play with trucks and often told they will be a firefighter or a doctor... If you eliminated these gender stereotypes, would there be more of the transgender identity? I for one, had never thought of it this way.
This may be off topic and I cannot capture the speaker in a paragraph but it was extremely interesting. I do know that quite a bit of time, money and commitment goes into the transitioning process. I am torn on my own opinion but I really started to think about it when they separated gender vs sexuality and stopped linking it all together. It is also a hard concept for me to grasp. If transgender is real (I assume it is), I cannot imagine the feeling. But because I cant imagine it, it makes it hard for me to think it is real or for me to fully understand it. | |
| | |
| FLITASTIC - 2016-04-20 11:07 AM Kaitlyn19 - 2016-04-19 8:57 PM komet. - 2016-04-16 5:26 AM ...where the confusion lays. If you have a penis, you go to the men's room. If you have a vagina, you go to the women's room.... If it's a porta-toilet you step in and lock the door behind you... Wh.Whe...Where is the confusion? Am I missing something? This discredits the folks who are intersex. If you are born both where do you go? Let me see if I can explain the difference now between transgendered and Being born with both sex organs ( Hermaphrodite ). Trans people are genetically correct being male or female and are born with the genitals to match their genetic make up. The only problem, is a problem of the MIND in these people. They are born one way but their MIND ONLY is the opposite of the body parts. People who are born with both have a genetic issue. SOme are born with an extra "Y" chromosome, some are born with an extra "X". ALL women carry eggs with only an "X" chromosome, males carry sperm of both X and Y. Depending on which get to the egg first determines the sex of the child. XX=girl XY=Boy. Sometimes sperm malfunction and they actually carry BOTH an X and Y, or 2 X's or 2Y's. In this case XXY= female looking but has small male genitals as well. YYX= mostly male with a small undeveloped vagina and Penis. OK, so what does this all mean??? Back in the day a child born with both , the parents could CHOOSE to raise the child male or female. Doctors believed that a childs gender could be shaped and molded by socialization. We know this not to be the case. These children are born with MALE or FEMALE MINDS.... Its impossible to tell at birth if a childs mind identifies as female or male. Doctors now advise parents to raise the child unisex and at puberty they will see which the childs MIND identifies with. The person can then have surgery to make the body and Mind MATCH. Hope that helps. Trans people have COMPLETE gender reassignment surgery. Meaning they had not both parts, but a totally functioning normal male or female anatomy that they are changing to the other gender.
Thank you for explaining. I do not have much knowledge on this topic, but while reading your explanation, I'm curious to know if you feel hormones may play a part. If a male takes female hormones he can develop breasts and if a women takes male hormones she can grow facial hair. Do you think that a hormonal imbalance may play a part in how transgender people feel about themselves? | |
| | |
 Elite Veteran
Posts: 920
| I have no issue with being gay, lesbian, bisexual or transgender. I could care less what floats peoples boats. It's life. I do care about sharing a bathroom with someone who shouldn't necessarily be there to begin with. You can say your the opposite sex all day long but technically at the end of the day your not. DNA doesn't change regardless of who you think you are. I do think maybe there should be a bathroom that is unisex for those people to use. I do not believe in sharing a bathroom with someone who may simply be portraying an actual transgender persona. That's what bothers me about the deal. If we are going to do that for transgender people we should just make all bathrooms unisex and be done with it. Why the government is having to decide on who uses what bathroom when so many other MAJOR issues need to be dealt with is beyond my grasp. | |
| | |
Expert
Posts: 5293
| LAC - 2016-04-20 10:08 AM
FLITASTIC - 2016-04-20 11:07 AM Kaitlyn19 - 2016-04-19 8:57 PM komet. - 2016-04-16 5:26 AM ...where the confusion lays. If you have a penis, you go to the men's room. If you have a vagina, you go to the women's room.... If it's a porta-toilet you step in and lock the door behind you... Wh.Whe...Where is the confusion? Am I missing something? This discredits the folks who are intersex. If you are born both where do you go? Let me see if I can explain the difference now between transgendered and Being born with both sex organs ( Hermaphrodite ). Trans people are genetically correct being male or female and are born with the genitals to match their genetic make up. The only problem, is a problem of the MIND in these people. They are born one way but their MIND ONLY is the opposite of the body parts. People who are born with both have a genetic issue. SOme are born with an extra "Y" chromosome, some are born with an extra "X". ALL women carry eggs with only an "X" chromosome, males carry sperm of both X and Y. Depending on which get to the egg first determines the sex of the child. XX=girl XY=Boy. Sometimes sperm malfunction and they actually carry BOTH an X and Y, or 2 X's or 2Y's. In this case XXY= female looking but has small male genitals as well. YYX= mostly male with a small undeveloped vagina and Penis. OK, so what does this all mean??? Back in the day a child born with both , the parents could CHOOSE to raise the child male or female. Doctors believed that a childs gender could be shaped and molded by socialization. We know this not to be the case. These children are born with MALE or FEMALE MINDS.... Its impossible to tell at birth if a childs mind identifies as female or male. Doctors now advise parents to raise the child unisex and at puberty they will see which the childs MIND identifies with. The person can then have surgery to make the body and Mind MATCH. Hope that helps. Trans people have COMPLETE gender reassignment surgery. Meaning they had not both parts, but a totally functioning normal male or female anatomy that they are changing to the other gender.
Thank you for explaining. I do not have much knowledge on this topic, but while reading your explanation, I'm curious to know if you feel hormones may play a part. If a male takes female hormones he can develop breasts and if a women takes male hormones she can grow facial hair. Do you think that a hormonal imbalance may play a part in how transgender people feel about themselves?
Excellent question and yes I can help you with some answers here. Someone who is trans meaning they have perfectly normal anatomy but their mind feels they are trapped in wrong body have normal hormones. So if a man is trapped in a girls body, the body will have ovaries that produce estrogen. Many trans people have mental break downs once puberty starts. I know one man personally who was born a normal woman. At puberty, he took razor blades and tried to physically cut off his growing breasts by himself. I have heard of cases where women trapped in a mans body try to cut their penis off. These very things ( Breasts and penis) are the manifestation of them being trapped. As a poster mentioned above, for a minimum ONE YEAR, trans people have to live as opposite gender, this includes hormone replacement therapy. Women trapped in a mans body will take estrogen and the testicles will stop producing testosterone. Men trapped in womans body will take testosterone, breasts will reduce, muscle mass will increase, facial hair and voice change etc. Once they decide this is the correct path for them, surgery will remove these parts permanently and they will need to stay on hormones for the rest of their lives. Hope that makes sense.
Hormones are " Biological" where as the feeling of being transgendered is " Mental" but no, hormone imbalances do not affect the feelings or cause someone to feel transgendered. If it were that simple it could be fixed very easily.
Edited by FLITASTIC 2016-04-20 12:47 PM
| |
| | |
Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | I have no worries about transgender.. or whatever anyone prefers.. or is..... its the stupid straight perverts that concern me.. yes a ID of some sort but whos going to realitically be at the restroom checking... Because here in Florida we have murders and molestations of the children in bathrooms more then you think and if someone walked in looking like a normal man into a womans bathroom, they would be going in after him. but a male dressed like a female impersonating a transgender or female.. people would not ..(i would but legally they can be there... or so we think..
Edited by Bibliafarm 2016-04-20 1:16 PM
| |
| | |
 Proud to be Deplorable
Posts: 1929
| Ok let me see if I have this correct. example: A person is born a male and his DNA says so. Sometime along the way his mind says nope I am a women. So he gets surgery has some parts removed and some added and has hormone shots to maintain his new gender for the rest of his life. And yet when he dies and they dig up his bones 200 years from now and check his bone structure and his DNA he still a man. Seams like an odd way to treat a mental illness to me or just humans screwing with nature. My suggestion would be until your reassignment surgery is complete use the restroom that you where born with. Hopefully science in the future will find a better way to solve this mental illness and stop chopping people up. | |
| | |
| FLITASTIC - 2016-04-20 1:43 PM
LAC - 2016-04-20 10:08 AM
FLITASTIC - 2016-04-20 11:07 AM Kaitlyn19 - 2016-04-19 8:57 PM komet. - 2016-04-16 5:26 AM ...where the confusion lays. If you have a penis, you go to the men's room. If you have a vagina, you go to the women's room.... If it's a porta-toilet you step in and lock the door behind you... Wh.Whe...Where is the confusion? Am I missing something? This discredits the folks who are intersex. If you are born both where do you go? Let me see if I can explain the difference now between transgendered and Being born with both sex organs ( Hermaphrodite ). Trans people are genetically correct being male or female and are born with the genitals to match their genetic make up. The only problem, is a problem of the MIND in these people. They are born one way but their MIND ONLY is the opposite of the body parts. People who are born with both have a genetic issue. SOme are born with an extra "Y" chromosome, some are born with an extra "X". ALL women carry eggs with only an "X" chromosome, males carry sperm of both X and Y. Depending on which get to the egg first determines the sex of the child. XX=girl XY=Boy. Sometimes sperm malfunction and they actually carry BOTH an X and Y, or 2 X's or 2Y's. In this case XXY= female looking but has small male genitals as well. YYX= mostly male with a small undeveloped vagina and Penis. OK, so what does this all mean??? Back in the day a child born with both , the parents could CHOOSE to raise the child male or female. Doctors believed that a childs gender could be shaped and molded by socialization. We know this not to be the case. These children are born with MALE or FEMALE MINDS.... Its impossible to tell at birth if a childs mind identifies as female or male. Doctors now advise parents to raise the child unisex and at puberty they will see which the childs MIND identifies with. The person can then have surgery to make the body and Mind MATCH. Hope that helps. Trans people have COMPLETE gender reassignment surgery. Meaning they had not both parts, but a totally functioning normal male or female anatomy that they are changing to the other gender.
Thank you for explaining. I do not have much knowledge on this topic, but while reading your explanation, I'm curious to know if you feel hormones may play a part. If a male takes female hormones he can develop breasts and if a women takes male hormones she can grow facial hair. Do you think that a hormonal imbalance may play a part in how transgender people feel about themselves?
Excellent question and yes I can help you with some answers here. Someone who is trans meaning they have perfectly normal anatomy but their mind feels they are trapped in wrong body have normal hormones. So if a man is trapped in a girls body, the body will have ovaries that produce estrogen. Many trans people have mental break downs once puberty starts. I know one man personally who was born a normal woman. At puberty, he took razor blades and tried to physically cut off his growing breasts by himself. I have heard of cases where women trapped in a mans body try to cut their penis off. These very things ( Breasts and penis ) are the manifestation of them being trapped. As a poster mentioned above, for a minimum ONE YEAR, trans people have to live as opposite gender, this includes hormone replacement therapy. Women trapped in a mans body will take estrogen and the testicles will stop producing testosterone. Men trapped in womans body will take testosterone, breasts will reduce, muscle mass will increase, facial hair and voice change etc. Once they decide this is the correct path for them, surgery will remove these parts permanently and they will need to stay on hormones for the rest of their lives. Hope that makes sense.
Hormones are " Biological" where as the feeling of being transgendered is " Mental" but no, hormone imbalances do not affect the feelings or cause someone to feel transgendered. If it were that simple it could be fixed very easily.
Thank you! Makes perfect sense how you explained. I now see the difference. | |
| | |
 Warrior Mom
Posts: 4400
| Just saw Target is allowing employees and customers to use whatever restroom AND dressing room that corresponds with their gender identity. | |
| | |
Expert
Posts: 5293
| jbhoot - 2016-04-20 11:45 AM
Ok let me see if I have this correct. example: A person is born a male and his DNA says so. Sometime along the way his mind says nope I am a women. So he gets surgery has some parts removed and some added and has hormone shots to maintain his new gender for the rest of his life. And yet when he dies and they dig up his bones 200 years from now and check his bone structure and his DNA he still a man. Seams like an odd way to treat a mental illness to me or just humans screwing with nature. My suggestion would be until your reassignment surgery is complete use the restroom that you where born with. Hopefully science in the future will find a better way to solve this mental illness and stop chopping people up.
I get what your saying. Bone structure actually changes when you take hormones. SO born man taking estrogen, the actual facial bones and other bones in the body will also become less dense and actually change shape. The facial bones and chin become more refined etc. But correct, if 1000 years from now they dig someone up, do a DNA test on the bone or other tissue, it would be whatever the person was born as. No surgery can change DNA
Do a google image search for " Transgender before and after pictures". SOme of the transformations from hormones are pretty remarkable.
Edited by FLITASTIC 2016-04-20 2:28 PM
| |
| |
| |
Folks on-line