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Member
Posts: 5
| Southtxponygirl - 2018-04-06 12:41 PM
OregonBR - 2018-04-06 12:25 PM AMYR - 2018-04-06 9:22 AM OregonBR - 2018-04-06 11:11 AM AMYR - 2018-04-04 2:28 PM I am curious, do the clones have to do the 5 panel testing? I realize that they are not bound by AQHA. Unicorns and rocking horses are the only equids that can't have muscle myopathies. Mules, mustangs and any other horse can have them. They are at least 1600 years old. Some say even farther back than that. People, cattle, dogs, horses, any mammal has mutations. Discovering and being able to avoid these can be a useful tool to breeding better horses. It's going to be a bumpy ride for a while. Come to terms with it.  I guess I do not understand your comment. Some of the cutting clones are from the 1980's era. I was just wondering if they were going to do any of the testing being discussed. Clones can have the disorders. Owners don't have to test if they don't want to know.
 Welcome to the board AMYR we're not all Grumpy on here so ask any question and most can help you out.. Â
Thanks, I have been out of the barrel racing scene for over 10 years now for health issues. I was just hearing about EPM when I quit going to jackpots. So I am trying to catch up. It will be at least another 3 years before I can think of getting back into it. I do not have Facebook, so I am not able to follow PSSM forums there. Sure glad I am able to learn here.
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  Champ
Posts: 19623
   
Location: Peg-Leg Julia Grimm | Sorry if you think I was grumpy. I did answer the question at length the first time. The second time I answered it more directly and in sure terms.
ETA: It would require a crystal ball to answer if the cutting industry were going to test. I have no idea what someone else plans to do or will do in the future.
Edited by OregonBR 2018-04-06 1:11 PM
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | AMYR - 2018-04-06 1:07 PM Southtxponygirl - 2018-04-06 12:41 PM OregonBR - 2018-04-06 12:25 PM AMYR - 2018-04-06 9:22 AM OregonBR - 2018-04-06 11:11 AM AMYR - 2018-04-04 2:28 PM I am curious, do the clones have to do the 5 panel testing? I realize that they are not bound by AQHA. Unicorns and rocking horses are the only equids that can't have muscle myopathies. Mules, mustangs and any other horse can have them. They are at least 1600 years old. Some say even farther back than that. People, cattle, dogs, horses, any mammal has mutations. Discovering and being able to avoid these can be a useful tool to breeding better horses. It's going to be a bumpy ride for a while. Come to terms with it. I guess I do not understand your comment. Some of the cutting clones are from the 1980's era. I was just wondering if they were going to do any of the testing being discussed. Clones can have the disorders. Owners don't have to test if they don't want to know.
Welcome to the board AMYR we're not all Grumpy on here so ask any question and most can help you out.. Thanks, I have been out of the barrel racing scene for over 10 years now for health issues. I was just hearing about EPM when I quit going to jackpots. So I am trying to catch up. It will be at least another 3 years before I can think of getting back into it. I do not have Facebook, so I am not able to follow PSSM forums there. Sure glad I am able to learn here.
Theres so much to learn now adays, the problems have always been out there but NOW, lol, we have so many resources out there studying all the problems that horses can have and it's very interstering what is being found out there. And this board if full of very knowledgeable horse women and men..I learn something almost everyday on here  Do you still have your horses? Its tough when we got to give up something we love so much, but sounds like you still have the love going on for these wonderful animals  | |
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | OregonBR - 2018-04-06 1:09 PM Sorry if you think I was grumpy. I did answer the question at length the first time. The second time I answered it more directly and in sure terms. ETA: It would require a crystal ball to answer if the cutting industry were going to test. I have no idea what someone else plans to do or will do in the future.
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 618
| I've read through this entire thread trying to learn and I have.
Having said that, all the "naysayers" are asking for is supporting evidence from unbiased sources. This would happen in blind studies conducted in control groups. I'd be curious how many,big any horses test negative with this particular test.
In the posted responses from OP to questions she submitted to Paul he blatantly implied that people not wanting the testing were somehow uncaring and did not want the best for their horse or the breed. OP also did this in some of her statements. That's offensive on a personal level to many. This thread is almost 2 yrs old, still no published peer reviewed studies, the website is devoid of anything really other than explaining the science of DNA and Genetis which most people have a basic understanding of from HS sciences.
If you feel like your horse has been helped bc of this test,AWESOME!!!
Attacking those asking questions will not win any support
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 Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| iloveequine40 - 2018-04-06 1:46 PM I've read through this entire thread trying to learn and I have. Having said that, all the "naysayers" are asking for is supporting evidence from unbiased sources. This would happen in blind studies conducted in control groups. I'd be curious how many,big any horses test negative with this particular test. In the posted responses from OP to questions she submitted to Paul he blatantly implied that people not wanting the testing were somehow uncaring and did not want the best for their horse or the breed. OP also did this in some of her statements. That's offensive on a personal level to many. This thread is almost 2 yrs old, still no published peer reviewed studies, the website is devoid of anything really other than explaining the science of DNA and Genetis which most people have a basic understanding of from HS sciences. If you feel like your horse has been helped bc of this test,AWESOME!!! Attacking those asking questions will not win any support Paul also has recently stated on FB when he gives an answer that is contradictory to his website that the website is not updated. That may be the case but when dealing with an issue as important as this you need to have your i’s dotted and your t’s crossed. If I were wanting to breed I would want people to post their concerns so I could research and decide for myself. That said, until it is peer reviewed I would not condemn any horse. My daughter had severe seizures as a toddler. Through that journey I have seem science get right up to the finish line with a new drug or treatment only to have it proved ineffective and previous data wrong in the last stages or research. His testing is not absolute and still subject to peer review.
The Fulton's released a statement today referencing a Michigan state article that until the testing is peer reviewed and gone through the necessary protocol that they will not use it. From my experience, I don’t blame them.
Edited by rodeomom3 2018-04-06 5:00 PM
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 618
| rodeomom3 - 2018-04-06 4:40 PM
iloveequine40 - 2018-04-06 1:46 PM I've read through this entire thread trying to learn and I have. Having said that, all the "naysayers" are asking for is supporting evidence from unbiased sources. This would happen in blind studies conducted in control groups. I'd be curious how many,big any horses test negative with this particular test. In the posted responses from OP to questions she submitted to Paul he blatantly implied that people not wanting the testing were somehow uncaring and did not want the best for their horse or the breed. OP also did this in some of her statements. That's offensive on a personal level to many. This thread is almost 2 yrs old, still no published peer reviewed studies, the website is devoid of anything really other than explaining the science of DNA and Genetis which most people have a basic understanding of from HS sciences. If you feel like your horse has been helped bc of this test,AWESOME!!! Attacking those asking questions will not win any support  Paul also has recently stated on FB when he gives an answer that is contradictory to his website that the website is not updated.  That may be the case but when dealing with an issue as important as this you need to have your i’s dotted and your t’s crossed.  If I were wanting to breed I would want people to post their concerns so I could research and decide for myself.  That said, until it is peer reviewed I would not condemn any horse.  My daughter had severe  seizures as a toddler.  Through that journey I have seem science get right up to the finish line with a new drug or treatment only to have it proved  ineffective and previous data wrong in the last stages or research.  His testing is not absolute and still subject to peer review. Â
The Fulton's released a statement today referencing a Michigan state article that until the testing is peer reviewed and gone through the necessary protocol that they will not use it.  From my experience, I don’t blame them.Â
Yes and when you start using emotional arguments to solidify your "factual" positions you completely devalue your position no matter the subject.
I have not seen one person deny the existence of pssm2 they've only questioned the validity of this test and with good reason. | |
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Tried and True
Posts: 21185
Location: Where I am happiest | classicpotatochip - 2016-07-27 1:58 PM
cheeka77 - 2016-07-27 12:46 PM
classicpotatochip - 2016-07-27 11:52 AM
cheeka77 - 2016-07-27 1:15 AM
The test for PSSM type 2 is now available to the public and all you have to do is send in hair and $$$! A lot of people have been waiting a long time for this and it's finally here! A group of researchers/geneticists have found the gene responsible for causing PSSM type 2 in horses without having to do a muscle biopsy and this is the only accurate test as muscle biopsies are NOT completely accurate. I was lucky enough to have my mare tested in the study before it was released and she was positive (n/P2 ) and although it was a kick in the pants at first, it ultimately saved her life and countless others. Keep in mind, she is extremely well bred so please don’t think your horse is exempt because of the pedigree. We believe my mare got hers from the stallion who got it from his sire and that sire got it from Jet Deck (and so on and so forth ). I cannot release my mare’s sires name as of yet because I am waiting for them to do the right thing and test him but if they continue to breed him and not say anything, I will go ahead and post. I have been in contact with some of his offspring and let’s just say there’s a reason he has very few babies in the barrel pen despite his breeding. There is a website called BRIDGE Equine where you can check your horse for symptoms and search in the database for suspect horses—type 2 positives and suspects will be added soon. There are many symptoms and some horses (like mine ) get symptomatic at 5 and some don’t until they’re 12! Some are even great athletes who win tons of money until they become mysteriously lame or hard to work with or? And no, they don’t all tie up. Fun facts- there is actually a PSSM type 3 as well AND an AQHA rep confirmed mares will be required to be 5 paneled in the near future before registering foals. My hope is that the type 2 test will one day be added to the 5 panel although I know it will ruffle a lot of feathers. Which is crazy to me but I won’t get into that. ; ) Proper breeding is key, when we get involved in breeding these horses, some of which nature never intended to be together, things like this happen and it is our job to be proactive. Have a crazy/naughty/on off lame mare you think will just be better off as a broodmare, well those breeders will suffer the consequences because they didn’t choose a good specimen.  I hope this gives a little insight and I will be happy to answer any questions as well as a few others on here I’m sure because they are also involved in this study. “Pandora’s box” was opened, but I am optimistic it is for the best and I hope others see it that way too.  Here is the link to purchase the test
 http://equiseq.com/buy_pssm2.php
Where is the research indicating the muscle biopsy is not accurate?
If you're on FB check out the PSSM forum on there, there is lots of good info! They've even found a few horses that tested negative on muscle bioposy and in the test were positive and vice versa! One was a TB who was positive for P2 on muscle bioposy but was in fact P3 instead. Now that they know the gene it's actual science diagnosing, before (well muscle bioposys I should say ) are vets just looking at the staining and diagnosing if the muscle looks "different" than a normal non PSSM horse. The great thing about the test as well is that is tells you how many copies your horse has. Mine is n/P2 meaning she got it from one parent and P2/P2 horses get it from both-no P2/P2 horses have ever made riding horses though
Thanks for your reply. However, I'm requesting the researched, published work validating your assertion that muscle biopsies are not accurate. All you have presented is a place I could go and read anectdotes. I have read people's posts there, and I'm sure a few people have a good idea, but a lot of the discussion I've seen there seems to be based on assumptions and, yes, anecdotes.
Now, I'm all for learning about voodoo methods and using them, but when someone presents a "scientific" something or other and charges for it as "researched", they better have the literature.
The other day, I read about a genetic test that can help you figure out how to work out properly to reach a mysterious "fitness level". It was also $99. Ha.
This test looks very shady, due to the fact that it hasn't been published. I think they're needing funding and using these "tests" to get their money, since anything they have found is so unsubstantiated that they can't get a grant to keep going.
I would also be very cautious when singing around that a certain stallion or bloodline has something wrong with it. Your position would probably be very indefensible in a court of law if the owners felt like following up, due to the lack of research.
I'm sure that long time researchers like Dr Valberg would love to hear that her published, peer reviewed work with biopsy data isn't accurate. As far as invasive, I had mine done and it was literally three stitches and some silver spray. Not invasive and easily healed.
When it's published, peer reviewed, and legitimate, I'd love to look at it again. I'm glad people are looking further into it, but I don't think it's time to get on the train as customers just yet.
 Amazing how accurate you were about this equisec scam even back in 2016. | |
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Location: in the ozone | ThreeCorners - 2018-04-10 6:21 AM
classicpotatochip - 2016-07-27 1:58 PM
cheeka77 - 2016-07-27 12:46 PM
classicpotatochip - 2016-07-27 11:52 AM
cheeka77 - 2016-07-27 1:15 AM
The test for PSSM type 2 is now available to the public and all you have to do is send in hair and $$$! A lot of people have been waiting a long time for this and it's finally here! A group of researchers/geneticists have found the gene responsible for causing PSSM type 2 in horses without having to do a muscle biopsy and this is the only accurate test as muscle biopsies are NOT completely accurate. I was lucky enough to have my mare tested in the study before it was released and she was positive (n/P2 ) and although it was a kick in the pants at first, it ultimately saved her life and countless others. Keep in mind, she is extremely well bred so please don’t think your horse is exempt because of the pedigree. We believe my mare got hers from the stallion who got it from his sire and that sire got it from Jet Deck (and so on and so forth ). I cannot release my mare’s sires name as of yet because I am waiting for them to do the right thing and test him but if they continue to breed him and not say anything, I will go ahead and post. I have been in contact with some of his offspring and let’s just say there’s a reason he has very few babies in the barrel pen despite his breeding. There is a website called BRIDGE Equine where you can check your horse for symptoms and search in the database for suspect horses—type 2 positives and suspects will be added soon. There are many symptoms and some horses (like mine ) get symptomatic at 5 and some don’t until they’re 12! Some are even great athletes who win tons of money until they become mysteriously lame or hard to work with or? And no, they don’t all tie up. Fun facts- there is actually a PSSM type 3 as well AND an AQHA rep confirmed mares will be required to be 5 paneled in the near future before registering foals. My hope is that the type 2 test will one day be added to the 5 panel although I know it will ruffle a lot of feathers. Which is crazy to me but I won’t get into that. ; ) Proper breeding is key, when we get involved in breeding these horses, some of which nature never intended to be together, things like this happen and it is our job to be proactive. Have a crazy/naughty/on off lame mare you think will just be better off as a broodmare, well those breeders will suffer the consequences because they didn’t choose a good specimen.  I hope this gives a little insight and I will be happy to answer any questions as well as a few others on here I’m sure because they are also involved in this study. “Pandora’s box” was opened, but I am optimistic it is for the best and I hope others see it that way too. Here is the link to purchase the test
 http://equiseq.com/buy_pssm2.php
Where is the research indicating the muscle biopsy is not accurate?
If you're on FB check out the PSSM forum on there, there is lots of good info! They've even found a few horses that tested negative on muscle bioposy and in the test were positive and vice versa! One was a TB who was positive for P2 on muscle bioposy but was in fact P3 instead. Now that they know the gene it's actual science diagnosing, before (well muscle bioposys I should say ) are vets just looking at the staining and diagnosing if the muscle looks "different" than a normal non PSSM horse. The great thing about the test as well is that is tells you how many copies your horse has. Mine is n/P2 meaning she got it from one parent and P2/P2 horses get it from both-no P2/P2 horses have ever made riding horses though
Thanks for your reply. However, I'm requesting the researched, published work validating your assertion that muscle biopsies are not accurate. All you have presented is a place I could go and read anectdotes. I have read people's posts there, and I'm sure a few people have a good idea, but a lot of the discussion I've seen there seems to be based on assumptions and, yes, anecdotes.
Now, I'm all for learning about voodoo methods and using them, but when someone presents a "scientific" something or other and charges for it as "researched", they better have the literature.
The other day, I read about a genetic test that can help you figure out how to work out properly to reach a mysterious "fitness level". It was also $99. Ha.
This test looks very shady, due to the fact that it hasn't been published. I think they're needing funding and using these "tests" to get their money, since anything they have found is so unsubstantiated that they can't get a grant to keep going.
I would also be very cautious when singing around that a certain stallion or bloodline has something wrong with it. Your position would probably be very indefensible in a court of law if the owners felt like following up, due to the lack of research.
I'm sure that long time researchers like Dr Valberg would love to hear that her published, peer reviewed work with biopsy data isn't accurate. As far as invasive, I had mine done and it was literally three stitches and some silver spray. Not invasive and easily healed.
When it's published, peer reviewed, and legitimate, I'd love to look at it again. I'm glad people are looking further into it, but I don't think it's time to get on the train as customers just yet. Amazing how accurate you were about this equisec scam even back in 2016.
I'm not sure where you get "scam" from this. To you and the above poster and any others:
Dr Valberg is also in this "race" to have the first published info for dna testing for PSSM2 variants, therefore she is obviously not going to be in support of ANYONE else's studies, work or testing. Due to the other researchers trying to be the first with this information published, why would Paul release which Universities and labs that are doing the validations and readying the publishing of his work? Does it not make sense to keep his cards close to the vest until it is ready for that? Also, the Universities get grants and donations to pay for the research and testing - Paul did not. (he may have financial backers, that I do not know) Otherwise, all of the initial testing for the test subjects was out of his pocket. And I've not seen anyone talk about how Valberg charges also - I know of one person with a PSSM1 positive horse that is very difficult to get stabilized so tested through Paul. That owner's vet and Valberg want to do a muscle biopsy (and I will bet also will be doing dna testing too) on the horse BUT the owner has to pay for all of it. So attacking Paul for charging is nil - other researchers do it also. He ONLY released the testing to be available for others because there was a huge response and requests from others that wanted answers for their horses that were symptomatic. Also, what was first thought was that there was one variant, like there is for PSSM1 (P1) so would be a much quicker release of everything. That initial thought has been proven incorrect - currently they now have isolated P2, P3, P4, P5 (those are individual variant genes of PSSM2 - NOT PSSM3, PSSM4, etc) and is finding more. He has also found PX (a component of RER). He did not tell people "Buy my tests, they are all proven and published and you will get all your answers". EquiSeq does not do the testing there - they have independent labs do the testing so somehow they have to be paid, so if he does not charge for these, how are those labs to be paid for? Again, horse owners REQUESTED that he make the tests available. If a person does not believe in what they do, no big deal - it's your opinion. But for those that make light of PSSM2 and the struggles owners of symptomatic horses go through, is extremely rude and cruel! In the past, most people who had symptomatic horses (but had no idea what they were dealing with) either sold them on down the line; started breeding them (if you can't ride a well bred horse, then let's breed them right??), put them down or threw them out in a field. NOW we can begin to understand WHY these horses have the issues they do and if you actually care about your horse and it's well being, try to manage and stabilize them (not an easy task in way too many of them, whether PSSM1 or PSSM2).
Regarding the statement by ASOF's owners - it is a carefully worded statement so as to not admit any knowledge (if they have it now) of the disease in case of future lawsuits. They do not say anything about Paul's offer to test him for free back when Bling died - so being it was offered as private results, either they did not test for whatever reason, or they did and of course Paul had agreed not to reveal either. Interesting they site Valberg, although Valberg developed the muscle biopsy but do not mention anything about having THAT test done. (and as I said above, of course Valberg is NOT going to recommend Paul's testing since she is also trying to get her own developed.)
I do find it very sad that people with a little bit of information or NO true information like to blast things with statements they have not taken the time to research.
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 Owner of a ratting catting machine
Posts: 2258
| slipperyslope - 2018-04-10 11:31 AM
ThreeCorners - 2018-04-10 6:21 AM
classicpotatochip - 2016-07-27 1:58 PM
cheeka77 - 2016-07-27 12:46 PM
classicpotatochip - 2016-07-27 11:52 AM
cheeka77 - 2016-07-27 1:15 AM
The test for PSSM type 2 is now available to the public and all you have to do is send in hair and $$$! A lot of people have been waiting a long time for this and it's finally here! A group of researchers/geneticists have found the gene responsible for causing PSSM type 2 in horses without having to do a muscle biopsy and this is the only accurate test as muscle biopsies are NOT completely accurate. I was lucky enough to have my mare tested in the study before it was released and she was positive (n/P2 ) and although it was a kick in the pants at first, it ultimately saved her life and countless others. Keep in mind, she is extremely well bred so please don’t think your horse is exempt because of the pedigree. We believe my mare got hers from the stallion who got it from his sire and that sire got it from Jet Deck (and so on and so forth ). I cannot release my mare’s sires name as of yet because I am waiting for them to do the right thing and test him but if they continue to breed him and not say anything, I will go ahead and post. I have been in contact with some of his offspring and let’s just say there’s a reason he has very few babies in the barrel pen despite his breeding. There is a website called BRIDGE Equine where you can check your horse for symptoms and search in the database for suspect horses—type 2 positives and suspects will be added soon. There are many symptoms and some horses (like mine ) get symptomatic at 5 and some don’t until they’re 12! Some are even great athletes who win tons of money until they become mysteriously lame or hard to work with or? And no, they don’t all tie up. Fun facts- there is actually a PSSM type 3 as well AND an AQHA rep confirmed mares will be required to be 5 paneled in the near future before registering foals. My hope is that the type 2 test will one day be added to the 5 panel although I know it will ruffle a lot of feathers. Which is crazy to me but I won’t get into that. ; ) Proper breeding is key, when we get involved in breeding these horses, some of which nature never intended to be together, things like this happen and it is our job to be proactive. Have a crazy/naughty/on off lame mare you think will just be better off as a broodmare, well those breeders will suffer the consequences because they didn’t choose a good specimen.  I hope this gives a little insight and I will be happy to answer any questions as well as a few others on here I’m sure because they are also involved in this study. “Pandora’s box” was opened, but I am optimistic it is for the best and I hope others see it that way too. Here is the link to purchase the test
 http://equiseq.com/buy_pssm2.php
Where is the research indicating the muscle biopsy is not accurate?
If you're on FB check out the PSSM forum on there, there is lots of good info! They've even found a few horses that tested negative on muscle bioposy and in the test were positive and vice versa! One was a TB who was positive for P2 on muscle bioposy but was in fact P3 instead. Now that they know the gene it's actual science diagnosing, before (well muscle bioposys I should say ) are vets just looking at the staining and diagnosing if the muscle looks "different" than a normal non PSSM horse. The great thing about the test as well is that is tells you how many copies your horse has. Mine is n/P2 meaning she got it from one parent and P2/P2 horses get it from both-no P2/P2 horses have ever made riding horses though
Thanks for your reply. However, I'm requesting the researched, published work validating your assertion that muscle biopsies are not accurate. All you have presented is a place I could go and read anectdotes. I have read people's posts there, and I'm sure a few people have a good idea, but a lot of the discussion I've seen there seems to be based on assumptions and, yes, anecdotes.
Now, I'm all for learning about voodoo methods and using them, but when someone presents a "scientific" something or other and charges for it as "researched", they better have the literature.
The other day, I read about a genetic test that can help you figure out how to work out properly to reach a mysterious "fitness level". It was also $99. Ha.
This test looks very shady, due to the fact that it hasn't been published. I think they're needing funding and using these "tests" to get their money, since anything they have found is so unsubstantiated that they can't get a grant to keep going.
I would also be very cautious when singing around that a certain stallion or bloodline has something wrong with it. Your position would probably be very indefensible in a court of law if the owners felt like following up, due to the lack of research.
I'm sure that long time researchers like Dr Valberg would love to hear that her published, peer reviewed work with biopsy data isn't accurate. As far as invasive, I had mine done and it was literally three stitches and some silver spray. Not invasive and easily healed.
When it's published, peer reviewed, and legitimate, I'd love to look at it again. I'm glad people are looking further into it, but I don't think it's time to get on the train as customers just yet. Amazing how accurate you were about this equisec scam even back in 2016.
I'm not sure where you get "scam" from this. To you and the above poster and any others:
Dr Valberg is also in this "race" to have the first published info for dna testing for PSSM2 variants, therefore she is obviously not going to be in support of ANYONE else's studies, work or testing. Due to the other researchers trying to be the first with this information published, why would Paul release which Universities and labs that are doing the validations and readying the publishing of his work? Does it not make sense to keep his cards close to the vest until it is ready for that? Also, the Universities get grants and donations to pay for the research and testing - Paul did not. (he may have financial backers, that I do not know ) Otherwise, all of the initial testing for the test subjects was out of his pocket. And I've not seen anyone talk about how Valberg charges also - I know of one person with a PSSM1 positive horse that is very difficult to get stabilized so tested through Paul. That owner's vet and Valberg want to do a muscle biopsy (and I will bet also will be doing dna testing too ) on the horse BUT the owner has to pay for all of it. So attacking Paul for charging is nil - other researchers do it also. He ONLY released the testing to be available for others because there was a huge response and requests from others that wanted answers for their horses that were symptomatic. Also, what was first thought was that there was one variant, like there is for PSSM1 (P1 ) so would be a much quicker release of everything. That initial thought has been proven incorrect - currently they now have isolated P2, P3, P4, P5 (those are individual variant genes of PSSM2 - NOT PSSM3, PSSM4, etc ) and is finding more. He has also found PX (a component of RER ). He did not tell people "Buy my tests, they are all proven and published and you will get all your answers". EquiSeq does not do the testing there - they have independent labs do the testing so somehow they have to be paid, so if he does not charge for these, how are those labs to be paid for? Again, horse owners REQUESTED that he make the tests available. If a person does not believe in what they do, no big deal - it's your opinion. But for those that make light of PSSM2 and the struggles owners of symptomatic horses go through, is extremely rude and cruel! In the past, most people who had symptomatic horses (but had no idea what they were dealing with ) either sold them on down the line; started breeding them (if you can't ride a well bred horse, then let's breed them right?? ), put them down or threw them out in a field. NOW we can begin to understand WHY these horses have the issues they do and if you actually care about your horse and it's well being, try to manage and stabilize them (not an easy task in way too many of them, whether PSSM1 or PSSM2 ).
Regarding the statement by ASOF's owners - it is a carefully worded statement so as to not admit any knowledge (if they have it now ) of the disease in case of future lawsuits. They do not say anything about Paul's offer to test him for free back when Bling died - so being it was offered as private results, either they did not test for whatever reason, or they did and of course Paul had agreed not to reveal either. Interesting they site Valberg, although Valberg developed the muscle biopsy but do not mention anything about having THAT test done. (and as I said above, of course Valberg is NOT going to recommend Paul's testing since she is also trying to get her own developed. )
I do find it very sad that people with a little bit of information or NO true information like to blast things with statements they have not taken the time to research.
-Sigh-  | |
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 That's White "Man" to You
Posts: 5515
| So without having to read all the above comments, what did we decide?? Good or bad?? | |
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Location: in the ozone | Whiteboy - 2018-04-10 11:17 AM
So without having to read all the above comments, what did we decide?? Good or bad??Â
basically if you have a symptomatic horse and want answers OR you want to avoid breeding your mare or breeding to a stud that might be positive OR looking to buy a horse and not wanting to take a chance, you test. If you want to bury your head in the sand and insult people who DO truly care about their horses and the pain they are in, not to mention the heartbreak, then find reasons to not test. And by symptomatic, can be a number of symptoms, NOT just one or 2 on a list. | |
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 Hugs to You
Posts: 7550
Location: In The Land of Cotton | Whiteboy - 2018-04-10 1:17 PM So without having to read all the above comments, what did we decide?? Good or bad??
What any intelligent person can take away from this is -
Yes, there is PSSM. No one denies that.
There is no study that has been released from any reputable source/peer review confirming test results from a certain company.
The rest is just pure speculation and personal opinions.
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Location: Not Where I Want to Be | slipperyslope - 2018-04-10 1:36 PM Whiteboy - 2018-04-10 11:17 AM So without having to read all the above comments, what did we decide?? Good or bad?? basically if you have a symptomatic horse and want answers OR you want to avoid breeding your mare or breeding to a stud that might be positive OR looking to buy a horse and not wanting to take a chance, you test. If you want to bury your head in the sand and insult people who DO truly care about their horses and the pain they are in, not to mention the heartbreak, then find reasons to not test. And by symptomatic, can be a number of symptoms, NOT just one or 2 on a list.
so the short answer is
if you want to feel warm an fuzzy do it
if you don't believe in fake science and think the process is irresponsible and jeapardous then don't
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Champ
Posts: 19623
Location: Peg-Leg Julia Grimm | The truth will win in the end. | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 618
| Again read through the comments and the general consensus amongst believers in this test is if you question it you don't care about your horse, the breed etc. You do realize by making those assertions the door slams on you educating anyone and you devalue argument completely.
As far as Paul releasing financial information and funding I find it interesting that he he releases some details about backing but not others or at least in your claims you're not aware of. I also find a lot of hypocrisy in some of his arguments for keeping it close to his vest ie he doesn't want anyone to find the answers before him, however he's so concerned about the welfare of horses. I see a big condascending ego.
Again, I have seen ZERO denials of the existence of pssm2 only questioning of the validity of the testing equisec is promoting as gospel and with good reason. Stop conflating questions about the scientific testing with the measure in which horse owners care about their animals.
Edited by iloveequine40 2018-04-10 3:26 PM
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Owner of a ratting catting machine
Posts: 2258
| slipperyslope - 2018-04-10 12:36 PM
Whiteboy - 2018-04-10 11:17 AM
So without having to read all the above comments, what did we decide?? Good or bad??Â
basically if you have a symptomatic horse and want answers OR you want to avoid breeding your mare or breeding to a stud that might be positive OR looking to buy a horse and not wanting to take a chance, you test. If you want to bury your head in the sand and insult people who DO truly care about their horses and the pain they are in, not to mention the heartbreak, then find reasons to not test. And by symptomatic, can be a number of symptoms, NOT just one or 2 on a list.
Jesus lady. | |
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Tried and True
Posts: 21185
Location: Where I am happiest | classicpotatochip - 2018-04-10 3:19 PM
slipperyslope - 2018-04-10 12:36 PM
Whiteboy - 2018-04-10 11:17 AM
So without having to read all the above comments, what did we decide?? Good or bad??Â
basically if you have a symptomatic horse and want answers OR you want to avoid breeding your mare or breeding to a stud that might be positive OR looking to buy a horse and not wanting to take a chance, you test. If you want to bury your head in the sand and insult people who DO truly care about their horses and the pain they are in, not to mention the heartbreak, then find reasons to not test. And by symptomatic, can be a number of symptoms, NOT just one or 2 on a list.
Jesus lady.
 Its the indoctrination from the koolaid drinkers on the equisec marketing site, the PSSM Forum on FB. I also find it odd this Paul from equisec sure has ALOT of time to post there for such a busy researcher. At all hours. Lol . IF and when that test is validated then we will all be glad. Until then, it appears to be a ponzi scheme run by a snake oil salesman charging $249 for a unvalidated uncredited un peer reviewed test. | |
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 The best bad guy on the internet
Posts: 3519
Location: Arizona | So if a horse tests Negative for PSSM1 but has symptoms like PSSM2, what does he have then? Since the tests aren't validated. | |
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Owner of a ratting catting machine
Posts: 2258
| LIVE2RUN - 2018-04-10 4:31 PM
So if a horse tests Negative for PSSM1 but has symptoms like PSSM2, what does he have then? Since the tests aren't validated.
That’s the whole point here. Everyone here isn’t doubting that PSSM2 exists.
I would, and have, just put them on a PSSM friendly diet and see if in a few months or sooner it doesn’t help. Many horses thrive on that kind of diet anyway!
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