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Location: Not Where I Want to Be | hammer_time - 2017-07-04 8:48 PM I think the first mistake was sending the horse for more than 30 days. Sounds like the horse is blown/sulled up mentally. Typically when we put rides on our horses they get 30 days and then they get turned out. I would have sent him out for 30 days, turned out for the winter, and then back in the spring for another 30-60.
this is what I do also.
By the time they are 12 they are trained up and ready go to work.
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  Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
 
Location: Florida.. | 1DSoon - 2017-07-04 9:46 PM hammer_time - 2017-07-04 8:48 PM I think the first mistake was sending the horse for more than 30 days. Sounds like the horse is blown/sulled up mentally. Typically when we put rides on our horses they get 30 days and then they get turned out. I would have sent him out for 30 days, turned out for the winter, and then back in the spring for another 30-60. this is what I do also.
By the time they are 12 they are trained up and ready go to work.
I seriously just laughed out loud.. just at 1d response..  | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 695
Location: Windoming | runningk - 2017-07-04 7:09 AM It would be really good if everyone would read the OP's whole post. Not just parts of it.
I was going to post the same exact comment! I stop reading when they obviously haven't read everything that was said. | |
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Gettin Jiggy Wit It
Posts: 2734
| Silly Filly - 2017-07-05 11:36 AM
runningk - 2017-07-04 7:09 AM It would be really good if everyone would read the OP's whole post. Â Not just parts of it.Â
I was going to post the same exact comment! I stop reading when they obviously haven't read everything that was said.
 obviously you came to the show a little late. She added and edited her original post long after people started replying. | |
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 Half-Eaten Cookies
Posts: 2076
Location: Fort Worth / Springtown | Vickie - 2017-07-04 10:26 AM I would have posted the trainer's name by now. Then file a small claims suit for my fees. There is nothing acceptable about this being the results of 6 months professional training. If the horse was just a stubborn pig with a bad attitude the trainer should have known it within a month and called the owner to pick him up. Total rip off.
I am usually a pushover - too nice - give someone the benefit of the doubt, but this is my gut feeling with this post.
And I gotta say - I have put my camera in a tree to film myself working the poles and barrels for a horse of my own that I am training for myself, so that I can see the progress - if you are in the business of training horses, you should be able to take/send videos.
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Half-Eaten Cookies
Posts: 2076
Location: Fort Worth / Springtown | So Lost - 2017-07-03 3:18 PM Yes, I shouldn't have trusted the trainer, even though previously I had a great experience with them, and when the updates were slow I should have been a thorn in this trainers side. I should have said get me videos or I'm sending a hauler. Instead I was understanding about how many horses this trainer had and the long hours they were working and every other excuse I was given for why updates were slow, or vauge and they couldn't get video.
I should have traveled up to see and ride my horse, unfortunately because of my work right now I can't be gone for much more than 24 hours or I would have.
As far as riding different yes everyone rides a bit different but horsemanship is horsemanship. I grew up buying, retraining and selling sale barn horses, catch riding at sales, I usually train all of my own horses but the property I have now isn't set up for it. I have ridden everything from cutters, reiners, western pleasure horses to dressage and jumpers. So I can pretty much guaranteed this isn't a case of the horse has my number.
I asked the trainer about the issues I was having as soon as I rode the horse and they had no explanation, at all. Didn't even say it was odd for the horse or suggest maybe I was doing something wrong. They just said they feel bad the horse is like that. I can't even wrap my head around how a person can take a horse who was going pretty good for me before I sent it, into this dead sided, hard mouthed, animal
As far as my post on social media, well it pretty much said that my horse didn't do well in training and I am disappointed and will have to start the horse from scratch and retrain it. I also said I was feeling sort of ripped off.
I guess I should have told everyone the horse was perfect and retrained it in silence and let the trainer take the credit when the horse is retrained and running because it faux pas to share any experience with a trainer that was bad.
I am wondering how we can read a book, go to a restaurant, hotel, watch a movie, fly in a plane, buy a truck, buy a house, have a lawn care service, pay for child care, buy a saddle, buy a pad - pay money for all sorts of things and write a reviews all over the internet, but you can't share your bad experience about horse sellers/trainers? | |
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Half-Eaten Cookies
Posts: 2076
Location: Fort Worth / Springtown | lonely va barrelxr - 2017-07-03 4:21 PM Southtxponygirl - 2017-07-03 12:22 PM Yes you were wrong for posting your disappointment with this trainer on Facebook or where ever you did the posting, the problem should have been between the two of you not the public.. You should have been going to check on your horse to see how it was doing.. Take your horse for a vet check and see if they can find out if theres a issue of it being sore are hurt.
I totally disagree with it not being OK to post negative results of ANYTHING we purchase on FB or any other social media. If anyone has any common sense they understand that one side is just that - one side of an issue. But it's BS to be the bad person for posting negative stuff. Life is not all rosey cheeks and rainbows. We can't all post positive posts all the time. And if there are issues with specific trainers (or any other product or service) how the heck else are we horse people supposed to let others know?
I think this pussy footing around bad trainer service is stupid. There are good trainers and there are those that aren't. Some are good business men and women and some aren't. I've seen plenty of slamming of shady sellers - so why would the rules be any different for bad trainers?
I've had some bad dealings with trainers and tried to handle it between me and the trainer(s). All that did was make them think they could do it again, to me and to others.
When I really think about it - you are exactly right, Lonely. | |
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Expert
Posts: 1446
Location: California | Not sure why you are asking for opinions, whenever someone says you're wrong you justify your actions or position.
Edited by *almost there* 2017-07-08 12:28 AM
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Expert
Posts: 1446
Location: California | cheryl makofka - 2017-07-04 8:30 AM Here is my two cents. No you are not entitled to a refund. The trainer cannot guarantee success, they put their time in, and need to be paid for the time. Even the 6th month, you didn't pick the horse up at the beginning, the horse stayed there, and she had to feed it and care for it. As for the trainer there are always 3 sides to the story, yours, theirs, and the truth, it may have been how you worded things that made them continue working on the horse instead of calling you and telling you to pick up the horse. Trainers try and be polite. It takes an exceptional trainer to call and tell someone to come get their horse as it isn't working. I have friends that are trainers and their stories about how owners reject their suggestion of selling the horse, or reject the suggestion of stopping the training. I have seen horses sull up at 30, 60, and even 90 days. It sounds like yours has sulled up.
YES YES YES YES YES, THANK YOU!!
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 Fact Checker
Posts: 16575
Location: Displaced Iowegian | *almost there* - 2017-07-08 12:32 AM cheryl makofka - 2017-07-04 8:30 AM Here is my two cents. No you are not entitled to a refund. The trainer cannot guarantee success, they put their time in, and need to be paid for the time. Even the 6th month, you didn't pick the horse up at the beginning, the horse stayed there, and she had to feed it and care for it. As for the trainer there are always 3 sides to the story, yours, theirs, and the truth, it may have been how you worded things that made them continue working on the horse instead of calling you and telling you to pick up the horse. Trainers try and be polite. It takes an exceptional trainer to call and tell someone to come get their horse as it isn't working. I have friends that are trainers and their stories about how owners reject their suggestion of selling the horse, or reject the suggestion of stopping the training. I have seen horses sull up at 30, 60, and even 90 days. It sounds like yours has sulled up. YES YES YES YES YES, THANK YOU!!
Are you kidding???? It takes an "exceptional trainer" to call and tell you to come get your horse???? NO ...... it takes an HONEST trainer! And as far as her making excuses....not so....she HAD used this trainer before so she had faith (albeit misplaced) in THIS trainer. | |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| NJJ - 2017-07-08 9:25 AM
*almost there* - 2017-07-08 12:32 AM cheryl makofka - 2017-07-04 8:30 AM Here is my two cents. No you are not entitled to a refund. The trainer cannot guarantee success, they put their time in, and need to be paid for the time. Even the 6th month, you didn't pick the horse up at the beginning, the horse stayed there, and she had to feed it and care for it. As for the trainer there are always 3 sides to the story, yours, theirs, and the truth, it may have been how you worded things that made them continue working on the horse instead of calling you and telling you to pick up the horse. Trainers try and be polite. It takes an exceptional trainer to call and tell someone to come get their horse as it isn't working. I have friends that are trainers and their stories about how owners reject their suggestion of selling the horse, or reject the suggestion of stopping the training. I have seen horses sull up at 30, 60, and even 90 days. It sounds like yours has sulled up. YES YES YES YES YES, THANK YOU!!
Â
Honest yes, but it does take an exceptional trainer to be honest with themselves. Most trainers feel the stress and pressure that they apply to themself as well as the owner.
Most think they can get through to the horse.
Most are well aware that if they call someone to pick up their POS that that owner will be bashing them publically as they took my money and didn't train my horse, so they keep trying.
Most trainers cannot afford on giving refunds, as training is to a lucrative business. Even if the horse is a POS, and the owner comes and picks up the horse, the trainer probably spent more time with that horse, and has probably earned their money, but the horse owner will ask for it back, then the trainer feels bad, the owner may have verbally assaulted them, then will go and slander them on the Internet this last part is not directed at the op,
I have seen lots of it on the internet.
So yes I do believe it takes an exceptional trainer to make the call.
For every 1 good horse owner there are 10 bad ones.
Yes I know there are a few bad trainers, the way I see it if the trainer has an ad up multiple places, probably not a good choice as the exceptional trainers don't have to advertise. | |
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Expert
Posts: 1446
Location: California | NJJ - 2017-07-08 7:25 AM *almost there* - 2017-07-08 12:32 AM cheryl makofka - 2017-07-04 8:30 AM Here is my two cents. No you are not entitled to a refund. The trainer cannot guarantee success, they put their time in, and need to be paid for the time. Even the 6th month, you didn't pick the horse up at the beginning, the horse stayed there, and she had to feed it and care for it. As for the trainer there are always 3 sides to the story, yours, theirs, and the truth, it may have been how you worded things that made them continue working on the horse instead of calling you and telling you to pick up the horse. Trainers try and be polite. It takes an exceptional trainer to call and tell someone to come get their horse as it isn't working. I have friends that are trainers and their stories about how owners reject their suggestion of selling the horse, or reject the suggestion of stopping the training. I have seen horses sull up at 30, 60, and even 90 days. It sounds like yours has sulled up. YES YES YES YES YES, THANK YOU!!
I find it interesting that this trainer did fabulous with one horse and then all of a sudden what shotty with another horse? What changed? I've been sending horses off for years to different trainers and have done training myself. No two horses will every break out and train the same. People's expectations are generally greater than their horses God given ability. I could see where a trainer feels the pressure to perform and keep customers happy so no, they don't want to say "by the way your horse isn't good" and yes, they keep on trying to train to meet the owners expectations.
Edited by *almost there* 2017-07-08 4:42 PM
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 Loves to compete
Posts: 5760
Location: Oakdale, CA | Southtxponygirl - 2017-07-03 9:22 AM Yes you were wrong for posting your disappointment with this trainer on Facebook or where ever you did the posting, the problem should have been between the two of you not the public.. You should have been going to check on your horse to see how it was doing.. Take your horse for a vet check and see if they can find out if theres a issue of it being sore are hurt.
I think you should of went and checked on the progress every month of the horse when you paid them..............I think we as horse lovers and horse owners need to have more due diligence. 6 months is a long time for a colt to be in training in my own opinion too...............hopefully your horse will come around..... I think after 2 or 3 months a young horse gets burned out on work and arena work.......... | |
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Loves to compete
Posts: 5760
Location: Oakdale, CA | the horse trainer knew way before 6 months of training if they didn't think the horse would work or whatever..............30 days and the trainer should of gave the client a opinion like that........ | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 380
| That's why it is important for trainers to set reasonable expectations. The owner and trainer need to discuss what what the plans are for a horse. Usually a trainer can tell initially if a horse is on the right path and if the owner might be expecting too much. Usually temperament and conformation the first big factors. Then you assess the horses natural ability and aptitude. Not every horse will go on to be a top reining horse but that doesn't mean they cannot get to a point that they are reasonably good at lower level reining, or dressage or whatever else the owner is wanting. A good trainer will turn away an unreasonable client.
My trainer was and is on occasion worried that my gelding might not be coming along quickly enough. She has not even had him for 20 days. He isn't doing anything bad or dangerous, just takes a little longer especially since another trainer had him before us. I told her to take it back a few steps. Take him for trail rides and mix it up a bit. I am not expecting a finished horse in two months of training on a 3 year old. She had never had an owner ask her to stop doing arena work before. | |
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Fact Checker
Posts: 16575
Location: Displaced Iowegian | *almost there* - 2017-07-08 4:39 PM NJJ - 2017-07-08 7:25 AM *almost there* - 2017-07-08 12:32 AM cheryl makofka - 2017-07-04 8:30 AM Here is my two cents. No you are not entitled to a refund. The trainer cannot guarantee success, they put their time in, and need to be paid for the time. Even the 6th month, you didn't pick the horse up at the beginning, the horse stayed there, and she had to feed it and care for it. As for the trainer there are always 3 sides to the story, yours, theirs, and the truth, it may have been how you worded things that made them continue working on the horse instead of calling you and telling you to pick up the horse. Trainers try and be polite. It takes an exceptional trainer to call and tell someone to come get their horse as it isn't working. I have friends that are trainers and their stories about how owners reject their suggestion of selling the horse, or reject the suggestion of stopping the training. I have seen horses sull up at 30, 60, and even 90 days. It sounds like yours has sulled up. YES YES YES YES YES, THANK YOU!!
I find it interesting that this trainer did fabulous with one horse and then all of a sudden what shotty with another horse? What changed? I've been sending horses off for years to different trainers and have done training myself. No two horses will every break out and train the same. People's expectations are generally greater than their horses God given ability. I could see where a trainer feels the pressure to perform and keep customers happy so no, they don't want to say "by the way your horse isn't good" and yes, they keep on trying to train to meet the owners expectations.
LOL....you are DEAD wrong. I sent a four year old off to a trainer and in 30 days, she called and gave me an HONEST opinion....I drove 500 miles to pick him up ...... Those of you who incessantly blame the "owners" are the ones who "allow" "well known" shady trainers to keep on screwing folks....heaven fobid that anyone should be able to speak out against a trainer ...... | |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| NJJ - 2017-07-08 5:50 PM
*almost there* - 2017-07-08 4:39 PM NJJ - 2017-07-08 7:25 AM *almost there* - 2017-07-08 12:32 AM cheryl makofka - 2017-07-04 8:30 AM Here is my two cents. No you are not entitled to a refund. The trainer cannot guarantee success, they put their time in, and need to be paid for the time. Even the 6th month, you didn't pick the horse up at the beginning, the horse stayed there, and she had to feed it and care for it. As for the trainer there are always 3 sides to the story, yours, theirs, and the truth, it may have been how you worded things that made them continue working on the horse instead of calling you and telling you to pick up the horse. Trainers try and be polite. It takes an exceptional trainer to call and tell someone to come get their horse as it isn't working. I have friends that are trainers and their stories about how owners reject their suggestion of selling the horse, or reject the suggestion of stopping the training. I have seen horses sull up at 30, 60, and even 90 days. It sounds like yours has sulled up. YES YES YES YES YES, THANK YOU!!
Â
I find it interesting that this trainer did fabulous with one horse and then all of a sudden what shotty with another horse?  What changed?  I've been sending horses off for years to different trainers and have done training myself.  No two horses will every break out and train the same. People's expectations are generally greater than their horses God given ability. I could see where a trainer feels the pressure to perform and keep customers happy so no, they don't want to say "by the way your horse isn't good" and yes, they keep on trying to train to meet the owners expectations.  Â
I am not blaming the owner, and I am not blaming the trainer in this instance. As no one knows their side of the story or the true story. Would I have done things differently, absolutely, will the owner do things differently the next time, I hope so.
Chalk it up to lesson learned. I would have left it off of Facebook, but I also don't do drama. The op needs to be careful as the trainer can sue for slander as everyone is sue happy.
I find the worst people are the horse owners who bash the trainer till the end of earth then turn around and send two more horses to them to be trained a year after.
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Member
Posts: 28
| I'd love to know why the trainer said my horse was great at beginning and they loved it, to bar none hands down the worst horse they have ever stepped foot on ? This was according to the trainers own posts not mine?
As far as slander? Well I'm not worried about that either, the trainer would have to have the money to sue and I have all of our conversations about the horse, none of my statements are false or lies or half-truths.
And as for a professional not wanting to tell the owner their horse is a pig, or that they cannot get along with the horse or train it. Well that’s when it’s time to put on your big girl panties and do the job you are paid for, and you can "save face" and "Sugar Coat" things, and still get your point across. There are ways to tactfully tell the owner that their horse is a pig or not going to make it in an event or you don't want to train it. Its pretty simple really, I can think up half a dozen ways right off the top of my head.
This trainer could have told me straight up that they thought my horse was a pig or what ever, even on day 2 and I would have happily had it shipped back home, without a second though because I trusted this trainer’s opinion, advice, & intentions. I never would have said a peep about it and would have totally gave the trainer the benefit of the doubt.
However milking me for 6 months and then sending back a horse that I will have to start from the ground up to get back on track and zero explanation for it? Is that really ok to most people here?
I guess I'm kinda shocked that there is no bar or standards trainers are held to especially by this community. I understand you can’t guarantee to make a horse a winner but as a professional you can generally judge what you can do with a horse in a given amount of time.
I in no way shape or form was expecting a finished horse in six months but I did expect a basic solid foundation, especially since the horse was being ridden before I sent it!
I’ve gotten many pm’s from people who have been in my shoes and agree what went down was wrong but didn’t want to face the ridicule from posting.
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 380
| So Lost - 2017-07-09 8:01 AM
 I'd love to know why the trainer said my horse was great at beginning and they loved it, to bar none hands down the worst horse they have ever stepped foot on ? This was according to the trainers own posts not mine?
As far as slander? Well I'm not worried about that either, the trainer would have to have the money to sue and I have all of our conversations about the horse, none of my statements are false or lies or half-truths.
And as for a professional not wanting to tell the owner their horse is a pig, or that they cannot get along with the horse or train it. Well that’s when it’s time to put on your big girl panties and do the job you are paid for, and you can "save face" and "Sugar Coat" things, and still get your point across. There are ways to tactfully tell the owner that their horse is a pig or not going to make it in an event or you don't want to train it. Its pretty simple really, I can think up half a dozen ways right off the top of my head.
This trainer could have told me straight up that they thought my horse was a pig or what ever, even on day 2 and I would have happily had it shipped back home, without a second though because I trusted this trainer’s opinion, advice, & intentions. I never would have said a peep about it and would have totally gave the trainer the benefit of the doubt.
However milking me for 6 months and then sending back a horse that I will have to start from the ground up to get back on track and zero explanation for it? Is that really ok to most people here?
I guess I'm kinda shocked that there is no bar or standards trainers are held to especially by this community. I understand you can’t guarantee to make a horse a winner but as a professional you can generally judge what you can do with a horse in a given amount of time.
I in no way shape or form was expecting a finished horse in six months but I did expect a basic solid foundation, especially since the horse was being ridden before I sent it!
I’ve gotten many pm’s from people who have been in my shoes and agree what went down was wrong but didn’t want to face the ridicule from posting.
Â
I did not see it in any other posts but have you taken your horse to the vet and him looked over? Before starting over you should get that done first. Any number of things could have put a stop to this horses progression. And after 6 months of pushing him he will be reluctant even after any pain issues have been addressed. | |
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Member
Posts: 28
| I did not see it in any other posts but have you taken your horse to the vet and him looked over? Before starting over you should get that done first. Any number of things could have put a stop to this horses progression. And after 6 months of pushing him he will be reluctant even after any pain issues have been addressed.
The horse isn't obviously lame or showing classic signs of ulcers. I will be taking my horse to a clinic with a lameness locator and while I'm there I'll have them check for ulcers as well.
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