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Extreme Veteran
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| No.....docs reckless is not out of the same mare.
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/docs+reckless
The mare produced iza dashing feature which is by a little known FDD stud that has some nice old school running blood with kipty's charger and rebs policy on there!
Edited by runfastturnsmooth 2018-02-02 4:43 PM
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Veteran
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| runfastturnsmooth - 2018-02-02 2:40 PM
joemama - 2018-02-02 2:24 PM
runfastturnsmooth - 2018-02-02 2:06 PM
joemama - 2018-02-02 1:55 PM
So, last night I watched the Kinder Cup shootout I believe it was. Almost all the horses were the latest and greatest designer bred, yet it seemed close to 75% of the 50+ horses ran .5+ off the winning time. For the record I didnt see the results, im just going off what I remembered.
Why are these well bred horses running that far off the winning times?
You would think if the breeding was so important the times would have been tighter.
http://kinderbarrelrace.com/2018-bfa-futurity-results/
Results from the 50 horse slot field. You can also find how each were bred sire and dam. Keep in mind the ground at Kinder is deep and loose, colts have always struggled with the ground. Lacey's BRH FS was struggling trying to work in that deep stuff.
Almost every well known race is this way, why?
If the stud is so important why do a high percentage of the "same" well bred horses run over a half second off all the time?
Well you want one out of a nice mare such as Mistys Dash OF Fame. She has 3 awesome colts doing well this year.
Most people never take into account the high volume of mares bred to FG, DTF, etc
Some lesser known small stud crop sires produce high numbers as the ones I posted early.
And all 3 of those colts are by different stallions. |
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Location: Desert Land | I would not say this horse is out of an unproven mare. The dam Mac Nightly Feature is also the dam of IZA Dashing Feature that Nicole Love did well on. The dam seems like a proven producer to me.
Edited by TheOldGrayMare 2018-02-02 4:16 PM
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Extreme Veteran
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| TheOldGrayMare - 2018-02-02 4:15 PM
I would not say this horse is out of an unproven mare. The dam Mac Nightly Feature is also the dam of IZA Dashing Feature that Nicole Love did well on. The dam seems like a proven producer to me.
Sorry your exactly right! Just making a point it was not the same mare as jk reckless lady or hm cornerstone.
There's another one outta that mare Johnny has that Kyle was riding. I dunno where it went. I didn't know Nicole ever had that horse I thought Kyle Noon just rode it.
Edited by runfastturnsmooth 2018-02-02 4:25 PM
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 490
| reese_tx - 2018-02-02 10:33 AM
Here in N Texas at just about any jackpot you're more than likely to find one out of Jesses Double Dee - 1D barrel horse and she did well roping off of him as well.
I don't see anything on his pedigree that falls in the 'puddle'.
Beautiful buckskin to boot! Wish I had one...
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/jesses+double+dee
You beat me to it!!!
I have a g-daughter of Wilywood o/o an old school bred mare that I cannot keep sound to run barrels on. IF she doesn't sell, Im really thinking about breeding her to him or his son. |
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| Sharp - 2018-02-02 8:22 AM
El Shady Zorrero. Brazil's number one producing stallion even in front of DTF, Tres Seis, Designer Red, FG and others. Produced over 4 million.
He has semen in Gainesville, TX
Isnt this the stallion whose offspring cannot be registered? I seem to remember a thread about this not to long ago... |
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 Saint Stacey
| awest has a grandson...that’s right, GRANDSON of Three Bars out of, I think it’s a Shawnee Bug daughter??? Anyhow? He’s older and never bred much due to his owners. But Amber found him and is now marketing him a little.
To be honest, you have more diversity in the barrel industry than any other discipline. Cow breds, race breds, reining rejects, cutting drop outs. You don’t see a Peppy San Badger running in the All American or a Dash Ta Fame at the NCHA. But look at the diversity of pedigrees at the NFR.
Typically a bloodline becomes obsolete for a reason. If you look back at Speedhorse from the 1980’s, everything was DFC, EJ, SE. yet how many SE sons are now hot? While some bloodlines stay the same, outcrosses do show up no matter what the decade. |
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Veteran
Posts: 183
Location: Wyoming | I think that given the amount of mares these popular stallions are bred too they are bound to have winners. I’ve seen many a 4-5 D out of these same popular stallions.
I agree that some new blood is needed or the breed is going to be in trouble. Someone needs to step out of the box and try something nee |
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Saint Stacey
| joemama - 2018-02-02 1:24 PM
runfastturnsmooth - 2018-02-02 2:06 PM
joemama - 2018-02-02 1:55 PM
So, last night I watched the Kinder Cup shootout I believe it was. Almost all the horses were the latest and greatest designer bred, yet it seemed close to 75% of the 50+ horses ran .5+ off the winning time. For the record I didnt see the results, im just going off what I remembered.
Why are these well bred horses running that far off the winning times?
You would think if the breeding was so important the times would have been tighter.
http://kinderbarrelrace.com/2018-bfa-futurity-results/
Results from the 50 horse slot field. You can also find how each were bred sire and dam. Keep in mind the ground at Kinder is deep and loose, colts have always struggled with the ground. Lacey's BRH FS was struggling trying to work in that deep stuff.
Almost every well known race is this way, why?
If the stud is so important why do a high percentage of the "same" well bred horses run over a half second off all the time?
Because everyone fixates on the sire and no one looks at the dam. The dam is 80%. Obviously not genetically, but it’s been my experience that the personality and desire tend to come from the mare.
How many “what should I breed her to” posts do we see where people want to “offset flaws” and they think that they can custom order parts and pieces from each parent to create the perfect foal when that is NOT reality and how breeding works. I’m sorry, but if something is so obviously off that you label it a “flaw”, maybe you shouldn’t breed the mare. Mediocre mares are being bred to proven stallions and when the resulting foal fails to perform...everyone blames the stallion for every single personality issue or conformational defect. When the truth is...the dam is probably more to blame.
ETA you also need to take training into account. Not every horse can stand up to the pressure of being a futurity horse. It might work for a year or two, but the burnout rate for futurity horses is very high. Few go on to make standout rodeo horses. Mental pressure tends to take all the try and confidence out of many horses.
Edited by SKM 2018-02-04 11:23 AM
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 Peecans
| What do you consider out of the gene pool?
Cow breed that are proven to produce 1D rodeo winning barrel horses? There are lots of those....
Old time breeding you don't see much any more? Jody Oh ... Truly Truckle ...
Beduino? I mean that's not FDD or DTF
I find when most people say "small gene pool" they are specifically referring to Dash ta fame ..... First down dash ... Thus dash for cash. Ya I get it a ton stallions are either by or out of daughters. But quite honestly if you can't find one that's not your just not looking, IMO there are lots out there. And if you want an NFR producer look to Blazin Jet Oleana or even 99 goldmine ....
I think we are set up with all these daughters out of wicked awesome proven time and time again stallions to do something really cool. I don't think barrel horses are in breed into a corner by any means.
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Veteran
Posts: 141
| SKM - 2018-02-03 7:35 AM
joemama - 2018-02-02 1:24 PM
runfastturnsmooth - 2018-02-02 2:06 PM
joemama - 2018-02-02 1:55 PM
So, last night I watched the Kinder Cup shootout I believe it was. Almost all the horses were the latest and greatest designer bred, yet it seemed close to 75% of the 50+ horses ran .5+ off the winning time. For the record I didnt see the results, im just going off what I remembered.
Why are these well bred horses running that far off the winning times?
You would think if the breeding was so important the times would have been tighter.
http://kinderbarrelrace.com/2018-bfa-futurity-results/
Results from the 50 horse slot field. You can also find how each were bred sire and dam. Keep in mind the ground at Kinder is deep and loose, colts have always struggled with the ground. Lacey's BRH FS was struggling trying to work in that deep stuff.
Almost every well known race is this way, why?
If the stud is so important why do a high percentage of the "same" well bred horses run over a half second off all the time?
Because everyone fixates on the sire and no one looks at the dam. The dam is 80%. Obviously not genetically, but it’s been my experience that the personality and desire tend to come from the mare.
How many “what should I breed her to” posts do we see where people wasn’t to “offset flaws” and they think that they can custom order parts and pieces from each parent to create the perfect foal when that is NOT reality and how breeding works. I’m sorry, but if something is so obviously off that you label it a “flaw”, maybe you shouldn’t breed the mare. Mediocre mares are being bred to proven stallions and when the resulting foal fails to perform...everyone blames the stallion for every single personality issue or conformational defect. When the truth is...the dam is probably more to blame.
ETA you also need to take training into account. Not every horse can stand up to the pressure of being a futurity horse. It might work for a year or two, but the burnout rate for futurity horses is very high. Few go on to make standout rodeo horses. Mental pressure tends to take all the try and confidence out of many horses.
Me and my daughter always discuss that. We figure people end up with the flaws of each more often than not.
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Location: Royal J Performance Horses, AZ | two proven studs that ar eout of the usual that come to the top of my head are slick by design of course. AND Jesses Double Dee |
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| Slick By Design is an Outcross as well is his son Slye By Design.. |
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Location: Michigan | runfastturnsmooth - 2018-02-02 4:54 PM
No.....docs reckless is not out of the same mare.
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/docs+reckless
The mare produced iza dashing feature which is by a little known FDD stud that has some nice old school running blood with kipty's charger and rebs policy on there!
Our stallion is a grand get of Kiptsy Charger. His only foal to futurity was with Marne. They did really well this year at the BFA. Qualified to the short go & tied for the fastest time in the short go to win 4th in the average. We were thrilled to say the least. Our stallion is a proven producer & a proven performer. It takes a lot of money to promote like the "puddle" horses. We don't have that kind of cash. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 542
| Brrelhorse - 2018-02-05 3:28 PM
runfastturnsmooth - 2018-02-02 4:54 PM
No.....docs reckless is not out of the same mare.
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/docs+reckless
The mare produced iza dashing feature which is by a little known FDD stud that has some nice old school running blood with kipty's charger and rebs policy on there!
Our stallion is a grand get of Kiptsy Charger. His only foal to futurity was with Marne. They did really well this year at the BFA. Qualified to the short go & tied for the fastest time in the short go to win 4th in the average. We were thrilled to say the least. Our stallion is a proven producer & a proven performer. It takes a lot of money to promote like the "puddle" horses. We don't have that kind of cash.
I saw your colt and liked it!
Congrats on getting one into good hands! Love that old racing blood. Indy Charger should definitely be mentioned as an out cross as well. I know I've heard some owners talking about liking the mare side on him!
Edited by runfastturnsmooth 2018-02-05 3:36 PM
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 338
Location: Michigan | runfastturnsmooth - 2018-02-05 4:33 PM
Brrelhorse - 2018-02-05 3:28 PM
runfastturnsmooth - 2018-02-02 4:54 PM
No.....docs reckless is not out of the same mare.
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/docs+reckless
The mare produced iza dashing feature which is by a little known FDD stud that has some nice old school running blood with kipty's charger and rebs policy on there!
Our stallion is a grand get of Kiptsy Charger. His only foal to futurity was with Marne. They did really well this year at the BFA. Qualified to the short go & tied for the fastest time in the short go to win 4th in the average. We were thrilled to say the least. Our stallion is a proven producer & a proven performer. It takes a lot of money to promote like the "puddle" horses. We don't have that kind of cash.
I saw your colt and liked it!
Congrats on getting one into good hands! Love that old racing blood. Indy Charger should definitely be mentioned as an out cross as well. I know I've heard some owners talking about liking the mare side on him!
Thanks runfastturnsmooth! |
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 Ms Bling Bling Sleeze Kitty
Posts: 20904
Location: LouLouVille, OK | RoaniePonie11 - 2018-02-02 10:07 AM classicpotatochip - 2018-02-02 10:00 AM RoaniePonie11 - 2018-02-02 9:31 AM classicpotatochip - 2018-02-02 8:21 AM Breeding for resale value is nothing to be taken aback about. Also, Dashing Chester is the same gene pool as everyone else. Same Dash For Cash and Moon names in there. Find me a proven stallion that I don't recognize any of the names on his papers, and we'll talk turkey. And not arena proven, what have his progeny done? So are you saying we shouldn’t try to go outside the norm? I think that’s just going to make our “puddle” smaller. In 20 Years there won’t be ANY variation left. I’m not saying go for something no one recognizes, but we have like 5 top sires that are eating up the industry. And on the progeny talk, too many sires are being bred to produce colts that will prove them that are themselves 3D horses. That’s dumb IMO. Why is it a bad thing to expect a stallion to be able to perform AND produce. And again, IMO just like in the racing world- I feel like they should perform and to see if they are good enough TO produce. Everyone with a yellow stud colt with FG, Sunfrost or DTF on their papers thinks is stallion worthy. Now, I know I’m not talking about EVERYBODY but you know what I mean. I also have to disagree that Dashing Chester is bred like everyone else. Look at the BHW stallions and pick out the ones that DONT have FG, Sun frost or first down dash on their papers. See how many you have left. While Chester may not be far off the norm, it’s a start. Sure. But you know where First Down Dash came from, right? Dash For Cash, and ummmm Top Moon. I would love it if somebody would put something together that nobody had heard of, that can blow the doors off of the current pool, and send real performers to the track and the arena. That's my whole point. BUT I'm not going to throw my good mare away on something that I can pay another grand and get something that somebody actually wants to buy. Yes I do realize where First Down Dash came from. In my mind I guess going back to Dash for Cash & Top Moon are more “purely” bred that way. And I see where you are coming from about resale. It’s going to take someone (more than 1 someone’s ) with money to burn to really step out there and create a new line of competitive horses. I don’t think this discredits your good mare that’s bred this way, or any others for that matter. I’m just concerned with the future of barrel horses’ pedigrees. Looks like we just keep narrowing the gene pool every year. I don’t feel like breeding to something outside the norm would be throwing your mare away. It would depend on what you wanted the foal for I guess. Resale, sure, the current lines are the way to go. But it you wanted to breed for a foal to keep and perform on, that’s when I think it would be a good idea to look elsewhere. 
Edited by cindyt 2018-02-07 12:24 PM
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Posts: 3782
Location: Gainesville, TX | Brrelhorse - 2018-02-05 3:28 PM
runfastturnsmooth - 2018-02-02 4:54 PM
No.....docs reckless is not out of the same mare.
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/docs+reckless
The mare produced iza dashing feature which is by a little known FDD stud that has some nice old school running blood with kipty's charger and rebs policy on there!
Our stallion is a grand get of Kiptsy Charger. His only foal to futurity was with Marne. They did really well this year at the BFA. Qualified to the short go & tied for the fastest time in the short go to win 4th in the average. We were thrilled to say the least. Our stallion is a proven producer & a proven performer. It takes a lot of money to promote like the "puddle" horses. We don't have that kind of cash.
I have a granddaughter of Kiptydoo, sire of Kipty's Charger. Her dam was an own daughter. She's Shawne Bug on the top side. She is an outcross to nearly everything out there. |
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 Poor Cracker Girl
Posts: 12150
Location: Feeding mosquitos, FL | SKM - 2018-02-03 8:02 AM awest has a grandson...that’s right, GRANDSON of Three Bars out of, I think it’s a Shawnee Bug daughter??? Anyhow? He’s older and never bred much due to his owners. But Amber found him and is now marketing him a little. To be honest, you have more diversity in the barrel industry than any other discipline. Cow breds, race breds, reining rejects, cutting drop outs. You don’t see a Peppy San Badger running in the All American or a Dash Ta Fame at the NCHA. But look at the diversity of pedigrees at the NFR. Typically a bloodline becomes obsolete for a reason. If you look back at Speedhorse from the 1980’s, everything was DFC, EJ, SE. yet how many SE sons are now hot? While some bloodlines stay the same, outcrosses do show up no matter what the decade.
Literally just gasped out loud. And me with a mare sitting in my pasture that I adore doing nothing.... oh the temptation!!
Dang you SKM!! Where's the fist shakin emoji when I need it?? |
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  Champ
Posts: 19623
Location: Peg-Leg Julia Grimm | Since the stud books have been closed on AQHA horses since 1940 with the only exception being a registered Jockey Club TB, there will be nothing new. TB books are also closed. So they won't be getting anything new either. Just new combinations and maybe some other bloodlines brought back to the top again. Tres Seis is one such horse. His pedigree is nothing new. He's just got the right combination to excel and he has. I remember when the horses on his pedigree were the current hot bloodlines. So he's an outcross to the 16179843132168798453123 First Down Dash and Beduino horses. |
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