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 Famous for Not Complaining
Posts: 8848
     
Location: Broxton, Ga | If you can a good listen is Fox Talk Tom Sullivan is going over this now...........can listen on your laptop or iPhone........
http://radio.foxnews.com/fox-news-talk/
Edited by CJE 2014-04-18 2:18 PM
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  Semper Fi
Location: North Texas | TXBO - 2014-04-18 1:20 PM
foundation horse - 2014-04-18 1:08 PM TXBO - 2014-04-18 1:06 PM foundation horse - 2014-04-18 12:54 PM TXBO - 2014-04-18 11:35 AM foundation horse - 2014-04-18 11:22 AM TXBO - 2014-04-18 11:12 AM CJE - 2014-04-18 11:06 AM Were they really overgrazing or was it about the tortoises.......... From everything i've read, it appears to be over grazing.... But that's just my opinion. Then the tortoise (s ) were a blatant excuse and the referenced Nature Conservancy (since bankrupt ) was a ruse, was it not? Because The BLM mentioned numerous times the aforementioned supposed causes to the best of my memory. I have pulled all the mesquites on MY Land. It is something 'management' and I would imagine the Bundy Family has 'managing' this tract of real estate most likely better than The BLM. To be perfectly honest with you I have not really paid attention to that aspect.
It DOES appear to be barren of much if any ground cover. I do agree with that. | |
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Semper Fi
Location: North Texas | TXBO - 2014-04-18 2:01 PM
foundation horse - 2014-04-18 12:54 PM TXBO - 2014-04-18 11:35 AM foundation horse - 2014-04-18 11:22 AM TXBO - 2014-04-18 11:12 AM CJE - 2014-04-18 11:06 AM Were they really overgrazing or was it about the tortoises.......... From everything i've read, it appears to be over grazing.... But that's just my opinion. Then the tortoise (s ) were a blatant excuse and the referenced Nature Conservancy (since bankrupt ) was a ruse, was it not? Because The BLM mentioned numerous times the aforementioned supposed causes to the best of my memory. I have pulled all the mesquites on MY Land. It is something called 'management' and I would imagine the Bundy Family has been 'managing' this tract of real estate most likely better than The BLM.
I absolutely despise mesquite! It's only good use to me is in the smoker or grill. There are many overgrown 'mesquite(ed) up' pastures in my area and I detest them! | |
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 Proud to be Deplorable
Posts: 1929
| foundation horse - 2014-04-18 2:29 PM
TXBO - 2014-04-18 1:20 PM
foundation horse - 2014-04-18 1:08 PM TXBO - 2014-04-18 1:06 PM foundation horse - 2014-04-18 12:54 PM TXBO - 2014-04-18 11:35 AM foundation horse - 2014-04-18 11:22 AM TXBO - 2014-04-18 11:12 AM CJE - 2014-04-18 11:06 AM Were they really overgrazing or was it about the tortoises.......... From everything i've read, it appears to be over grazing.... But that's just my opinion. Then the tortoise (s ) were a blatant excuse and the referenced Nature Conservancy (since bankrupt ) was a ruse, was it not? Because The BLM mentioned numerous times the aforementioned supposed causes to the best of my memory. I have pulled all the mesquites on MY Land. It is something 'management' and I would imagine the Bundy Family has 'managing' this tract of real estate most likely better than The BLM. To be perfectly honest with you I have not really paid attention to that aspect.
It DOES appear to be barren of much if any ground cover. I do agree with that.
Guys go to google maps and look at a Sat. view of the area you are talking about. All of the land that the BLM has looks the same. | |
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 Googly Goo
Posts: 7053
| jbhoot - 2014-04-18 2:44 PM foundation horse - 2014-04-18 2:29 PM TXBO - 2014-04-18 1:20 PM foundation horse - 2014-04-18 1:08 PM TXBO - 2014-04-18 1:06 PM foundation horse - 2014-04-18 12:54 PM TXBO - 2014-04-18 11:35 AM foundation horse - 2014-04-18 11:22 AM TXBO - 2014-04-18 11:12 AM CJE - 2014-04-18 11:06 AM Were they really overgrazing or was it about the tortoises.......... From everything i've read, it appears to be over grazing.... But that's just my opinion. Then the tortoise (s ) were a blatant excuse and the referenced Nature Conservancy (since bankrupt ) was a ruse, was it not? Because The BLM mentioned numerous times the aforementioned supposed causes to the best of my memory. I have pulled all the mesquites on MY Land. It is something 'management' and I would imagine the Bundy Family has 'managing' this tract of real estate most likely better than The BLM. To be perfectly honest with you I have not really paid attention to that aspect.
It DOES appear to be barren of much if any ground cover. I do agree with that. Guys go to google maps and look at a Sat. view of the area you are talking about. All of the land that the BLM has looks the same.
Unfortunately, most people have only seen an overgrazed desert and don't know the difference.
Edited by TXBO 2014-04-18 3:08 PM
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Grammar Expert
| Liberal handbook on how to remove cattle from the range:
http://books.google.com/books?id=KEhficL591MC&pg=PA360&dq=Storm+Over+Rangelands:+Private+Rights+in+Federal+Lands&hl=en&sa=X&ei=BYVRU6-fJseQyATxs4KwDA&ved=0CFIQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=Storm%20Over%20Rangelands%3A%20Private%20Rights%20in%20Federal%20Lands&f=false | |
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 Nicknameless
Posts: 4565
Location: I can see the end of the world from here! | TXBO - 2014-04-18 2:05 PM jbhoot - 2014-04-18 2:44 PM foundation horse - 2014-04-18 2:29 PM TXBO - 2014-04-18 1:20 PM foundation horse - 2014-04-18 1:08 PM TXBO - 2014-04-18 1:06 PM foundation horse - 2014-04-18 12:54 PM TXBO - 2014-04-18 11:35 AM foundation horse - 2014-04-18 11:22 AM TXBO - 2014-04-18 11:12 AM CJE - 2014-04-18 11:06 AM Were they really overgrazing or was it about the tortoises.......... From everything i've read, it appears to be over grazing.... But that's just my opinion. Then the tortoise (s ) were a blatant excuse and the referenced Nature Conservancy (since bankrupt ) was a ruse, was it not? Because The BLM mentioned numerous times the aforementioned supposed causes to the best of my memory. I have pulled all the mesquites on MY Land. It is something 'management' and I would imagine the Bundy Family has 'managing' this tract of real estate most likely better than The BLM. To be perfectly honest with you I have not really paid attention to that aspect.
It DOES appear to be barren of much if any ground cover. I do agree with that. Guys go to google maps and look at a Sat. view of the area you are talking about. All of the land that the BLM has looks the same.
Unfortunately, most people have only seen an overgrazed desert and don't know the difference.
Lol...wonder why they call it 'Mesquite Nv'? It's not sagebrush country...what you're probably seeing is a lot of Creosote brush, too...it's the Mojave Desert, not the Great Basin. | |
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Grammar Expert
| foundation horse - 2014-04-18 11:59 AM smiley - 2014-04-18 12:08 PM foundation horse - 2014-04-18 10:22 AM TXBO - 2014-04-18 11:12 AM CJE - 2014-04-18 11:06 AM Were they really overgrazing or was it about the tortoises.......... From everything i've read, it appears to be over grazing.... But that's just my opinion. Then the tortoise (s ) were a blatant excuse and the referenced Nature Conservancy (since bankrupt ) was a ruse, was it not? Because The BLM mentioned numerous times the aforementioned supposed causes to the best of my memory.
ENVIRONMENTALISTS. ACTIVISTS. THOSE are your enemies. Turns out they think they know a few uses for the land too. Do you discount the documented reports of Harry Reid's Involvement with this dating to the same time that Bundy had his initial disagreement with The BLM? Also, what that Legal Standing that The Federal Judge has assessed upon The Bundy Claim based upon The Precedent set by The Wayne Hage Case?
Also, one solar farm planned is 35 miles away from the Bundy ranch and the other is 100 miles away AND China met with 9 senators, not just Reid.
I do however shake my head at the guy in D.C. who had about 3 years of BLM experience when he got that cushy job. Then again, not many sane people want to move to D.C. and take some of those jobs, I would think.
Edited by smiley 2014-04-18 3:30 PM
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Grammar Expert
| bscanchaser - 2014-04-18 12:46 PM So this to kind of a question for those who are big on the States taking control back over the lands that the Fed’s run. I know several other Western states have looked into this possibility- my question to you is what makes you certain that Nevada is wanting to move in that direction? I have attended my County Commissioner meeting regarding AB 221 and the impacts it would have to the State and Counties. From my prospective of these meetings, it doesn’t seem likely to go forward.
The County Commissioners indicated that the State would push down majority of the management responsibilities to the County levels if they pursue taking over the land. Our County is pretty well off financially but had major concerns about the overall costs of implementation, management and lack of personnel and equipment that would be necessary to move forward without change in use. They said that a large portion of the land that the State takes over would need to be sold to be private ground to limit the responsibilities that the County would have for management. Public concern seemed to revolve around the large stake holders in our area (meaning the large companies ie. mining, gas, power) that would likely purchase and take over majority of the ex-BLM land; you add this to the Rail Road checker board and this means there is no legal access to most properties- this means no hunting, no fishing, no atv, no horseback trail rides, and no open cattle grazing.
Right now, in my district there are 9,277,772 public land acres divided up into 104 allotments with 95 operators. So basically those 95 operators run an average of 97,660 acres each- if this ground were to be sold at a cheap $100/acre that would be an astounding $9,776,000 per user to maintain what they currently run. Large corporations are going to buy up this land and either close it to public use or charge for use. Seems like a lose-lose for most ranchers/users in my area. I’m guessing this will give smaller people an opportunity to purchase some cheap land but they won’t be able to sustain especially considering the current grazing number say it requires 50 acres support 1 AUM. That $1.35/AUM seems pretty cheap according to my business accounting. I honestly don’t know very many ranchers that have millions lying around to be able to purchase vast ground to protect their grazing rights- and the ranchers at these meeting had the same sentiments.
Exactly, who thinks the states will be selling to ma and pa jones??
Not I, it will be just more land in the hands of a few. | |
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Nicknameless
Posts: 4565
Location: I can see the end of the world from here! | smiley - 2014-04-18 2:30 PM bscanchaser - 2014-04-18 12:46 PM So this to kind of a question for those who are big on the States taking control back over the lands that the Fed’s run. I know several other Western states have looked into this possibility- my question to you is what makes you certain that Nevada is wanting to move in that direction? I have attended my County Commissioner meeting regarding AB 221 and the impacts it would have to the State and Counties. From my prospective of these meetings, it doesn’t seem likely to go forward.
The County Commissioners indicated that the State would push down majority of the management responsibilities to the County levels if they pursue taking over the land. Our County is pretty well off financially but had major concerns about the overall costs of implementation, management and lack of personnel and equipment that would be necessary to move forward without change in use. They said that a large portion of the land that the State takes over would need to be sold to be private ground to limit the responsibilities that the County would have for management. Public concern seemed to revolve around the large stake holders in our area (meaning the large companies ie. mining, gas, power) that would likely purchase and take over majority of the ex-BLM land; you add this to the Rail Road checker board and this means there is no legal access to most properties- this means no hunting, no fishing, no atv, no horseback trail rides, and no open cattle grazing.
Right now, in my district there are 9,277,772 public land acres divided up into 104 allotments with 95 operators. So basically those 95 operators run an average of 97,660 acres each- if this ground were to be sold at a cheap $100/acre that would be an astounding $9,776,000 per user to maintain what they currently run. Large corporations are going to buy up this land and either close it to public use or charge for use. Seems like a lose-lose for most ranchers/users in my area. I’m guessing this will give smaller people an opportunity to purchase some cheap land but they won’t be able to sustain especially considering the current grazing number say it requires 50 acres support 1 AUM. That $1.35/AUM seems pretty cheap according to my business accounting. I honestly don’t know very many ranchers that have millions lying around to be able to purchase vast ground to protect their grazing rights- and the ranchers at these meeting had the same sentiments. Exactly, who thinks the states will be selling to ma and pa jones??
Not I, it will be just more land in the hands of a few.
I've heard all the fearful 'what if's' and all I can really say is: every other state had the opportunity to grow their product...why not us? It's past time. Aside from the fears of what the state or private property owners would do...how about the fact that the public is already being locked out of the land?
Also...I know of large tracts of land that's for sale now and has been for many, many years...nobody wanted to buy it 100 yrs ago and they still don't.
Edited by musikmaker 2014-04-18 3:49 PM
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Googly Goo
Posts: 7053
| musikmaker - 2014-04-18 3:29 PM TXBO - 2014-04-18 2:05 PM jbhoot - 2014-04-18 2:44 PM foundation horse - 2014-04-18 2:29 PM TXBO - 2014-04-18 1:20 PM foundation horse - 2014-04-18 1:08 PM TXBO - 2014-04-18 1:06 PM foundation horse - 2014-04-18 12:54 PM TXBO - 2014-04-18 11:35 AM foundation horse - 2014-04-18 11:22 AM TXBO - 2014-04-18 11:12 AM CJE - 2014-04-18 11:06 AM Were they really overgrazing or was it about the tortoises.......... From everything i've read, it appears to be over grazing.... But that's just my opinion. Then the tortoise (s ) were a blatant excuse and the referenced Nature Conservancy (since bankrupt ) was a ruse, was it not? Because The BLM mentioned numerous times the aforementioned supposed causes to the best of my memory. I have pulled all the mesquites on MY Land. It is something 'management' and I would imagine the Bundy Family has 'managing' this tract of real estate most likely better than The BLM. To be perfectly honest with you I have not really paid attention to that aspect.
It DOES appear to be barren of much if any ground cover. I do agree with that. Guys go to google maps and look at a Sat. view of the area you are talking about. All of the land that the BLM has looks the same.
Unfortunately, most people have only seen an overgrazed desert and don't know the difference.
That depends on who you talk to. The lines are drawn differently by different experts. If it's very southern NV it could be Mojave. Some have Clark County as Sonoran. My personal experience is that it has more characteristics of Sonoran that either of the other two until you get north of Las Vegas. | |
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Nicknameless
Posts: 4565
Location: I can see the end of the world from here! | TXBO - 2014-04-18 3:02 PM musikmaker - 2014-04-18 3:29 PM TXBO - 2014-04-18 2:05 PM jbhoot - 2014-04-18 2:44 PM foundation horse - 2014-04-18 2:29 PM TXBO - 2014-04-18 1:20 PM foundation horse - 2014-04-18 1:08 PM TXBO - 2014-04-18 1:06 PM foundation horse - 2014-04-18 12:54 PM TXBO - 2014-04-18 11:35 AM foundation horse - 2014-04-18 11:22 AM TXBO - 2014-04-18 11:12 AM CJE - 2014-04-18 11:06 AM Were they really overgrazing or was it about the tortoises.......... From everything i've read, it appears to be over grazing.... But that's just my opinion. Then the tortoise (s ) were a blatant excuse and the referenced Nature Conservancy (since bankrupt ) was a ruse, was it not? Because The BLM mentioned numerous times the aforementioned supposed causes to the best of my memory. I have pulled all the mesquites on MY Land. It is something 'management' and I would imagine the Bundy Family has 'managing' this tract of real estate most likely better than The BLM. To be perfectly honest with you I have not really paid attention to that aspect.
It DOES appear to be barren of much if any ground cover. I do agree with that. Guys go to google maps and look at a Sat. view of the area you are talking about. All of the land that the BLM has looks the same.
Unfortunately, most people have only seen an overgrazed desert and don't know the difference.
This is north east of LV about 80 miles...go to or through there several times a year. It is considered the Mojave desert by locals. Either way there's no sagebrush..and plenty of mesquite, they don't grow like they do in Texas...of course, nothing does. Lol! | |
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Googly Goo
Posts: 7053
| musikmaker - 2014-04-18 3:47 PM ....I've heard all the fearful 'what if's' and all I can really say is: every other state had the opportunity to grow their product...why not us? It's past time. Aside from the fears of what the state or private property owners would do...how about the fact that the public is already being locked out of the land?
....
Didn't you say you had oil leases on public land? If so, it doesn't sound like you are "locked out". | |
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Proud to be Deplorable
Posts: 1929
| musikmaker - 2014-04-18 4:29 PM
TXBO - 2014-04-18 3:02 PM musikmaker - 2014-04-18 3:29 PM TXBO - 2014-04-18 2:05 PM jbhoot - 2014-04-18 2:44 PM foundation horse - 2014-04-18 2:29 PM TXBO - 2014-04-18 1:20 PM foundation horse - 2014-04-18 1:08 PM TXBO - 2014-04-18 1:06 PM foundation horse - 2014-04-18 12:54 PM TXBO - 2014-04-18 11:35 AM foundation horse - 2014-04-18 11:22 AM TXBO - 2014-04-18 11:12 AM CJE - 2014-04-18 11:06 AM Were they really overgrazing or was it about the tortoises.......... From everything i've read, it appears to be over grazing.... But that's just my opinion. Then the tortoise (s ) were a blatant excuse and the referenced Nature Conservancy (since bankrupt ) was a ruse, was it not? Because The BLM mentioned numerous times the aforementioned supposed causes to the best of my memory. I have pulled all the mesquites on MY Land. It is something 'management' and I would imagine the Bundy Family has 'managing' this tract of real estate most likely better than The BLM. To be perfectly honest with you I have not really paid attention to that aspect.
It DOES appear to be barren of much if any ground cover. I do agree with that. Guys go to google maps and look at a Sat. view of the area you are talking about. All of the land that the BLM has looks the same.
Unfortunately, most people have only seen an overgrazed desert and don't know the difference.
I just did a search EVERY map says it part of the Mohave. | |
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Googly Goo
Posts: 7053
| musikmaker - 2014-04-18 4:29 PM This is north east of LV about 80 miles...go to or through there several times a year. It is considered the Mojave desert by locals. Either way there's no sagebrush..and plenty of mesquite, they don't grow like they do in Texas...of course, nothing does. Lol!
The reason you see so many mesquites is because it has been overgrazed for so long.
BTW...I was a local. I lived in Clark County just north of the Las Vegas city limits. Many desert experts consider the Joshua Tree to be the distingushing characteristic of the Mojave. I don't recall seeing any there.
I don't want to fight over what desert range it is. LOL. Regardless of range there are 1,000's of desert plants as goung cover in the Mojave, Sonoran and Great Basin. Many areas have been ruined by grazing over the years as well as by the introduction of switchgrass (for grazing) that chocked out the indiginous species.
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Googly Goo
Posts: 7053
| jbhoot - 2014-04-18 4:44 PM This is north east of LV about 80 miles...go to or through there several times a year. It is considered the Mojave desert by locals. Either way there's no sagebrush..and plenty of mesquite, they don't grow like they do in Texas...of course, nothing does. Lol! I just did a search EVERY map says it part of the Mohave. Jeez Louis! 80 miles north of Las Vegas is so close to where many draw the line. It's very much a transitional area.
LOL! didn't look at the name. Thought that was musik fighting me.
Edited by TXBO 2014-04-18 5:08 PM
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Nicknameless
Posts: 4565
Location: I can see the end of the world from here! | TXBO - 2014-04-18 3:30 PM musikmaker - 2014-04-18 3:47 PM ....I've heard all the fearful 'what if's' and all I can really say is: every other state had the opportunity to grow their product...why not us? It's past time. Aside from the fears of what the state or private property owners would do...how about the fact that the public is already being locked out of the land?
....
Didn't you say you had oil leases on public land? If so, it doesn't sound like you are "locked out".
Oh boy...let me tell ya! There's some old tanks that have been sitting there since the 50's, old bullet ridden, graffitied, rusty..ugly...can't remove them, they fall under the antiquities act! Lol...now let's talk migrating birds...when drilling they have to net the mud pits to keep birds from getting in...know that this land is adjacent to the San Juan river & private property...how about the new thing this month that the pump jacks have oil on the moving parts! OMG! Or maybe the signs aren't easy to read from a mile away...or or or...really stupid things.
The land we have leases on used to belong to an estate that I'm part owner of...it was a land patent that the fed 'retracted' in 1934...who knows why or how. This oil field belongs to my husband & is the oldest producing field in the state. Pretty cool! (Most of his wells are on private or state property.) It's also next to what the enviros are trying to get Obama to declare Wilderness...so just outside of 'town' we can no longer access the river on an old road that's been there since the 1880's, nor can we travel the many other old roads or trails that have been there forever. The river runners don't like to see 'developement', I guess it ruins their nudist trips & sense of getting in touch with nature.
We just bought a new jeep Wednesday (!)...planning on doing our part to open up our roads.
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Nicknameless
Posts: 4565
Location: I can see the end of the world from here! | TXBO - 2014-04-18 3:45 PM musikmaker - 2014-04-18 4:29 PM This is north east of LV about 80 miles...go to or through there several times a year. It is considered the Mojave desert by locals. Either way there's no sagebrush..and plenty of mesquite, they don't grow like they do in Texas...of course, nothing does. Lol! The reason you see so many mesquites is because it has been overgrazed for so long.
BTW...I was a local. I lived in Clark County just north of the Las Vegas city limits. Many desert experts consider the Joshua Tree to be the distingushing characteristic of the Mojave. I don't recall seeing any there.
I don't want to fight over what desert range it is. LOL. Regardless of range there are 1,000's of desert plants as goung cover in the Mojave, Sonoran and Great Basin. Many areas have been ruined by grazing over the years as well as by the introduction of switchgrass (for grazing) that chocked out the indiginous species.
Ok...I don't want to fight, either...life's too short...or long.
There's a lot of Joshua trees just north of there towards St. George...pretty rough country! True grazing can be hard on a range...it can also be good for it. I don't know enough about it to have an opinion...aren't you glad? Lol...
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Googly Goo
Posts: 7053
| jbhoot - 2014-04-18 4:44 PM I just did a search EVERY map says it part of the Mohave.
Most of my desert maps are old and in print but here are two maps. One would put Bunkerville in the Mojave. One would put Bunkerville in the Great Basin.
 (mojave.jpg)
 (sw_deserts (182x250).jpg)
Attachments
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 mojave.jpg (54KB - 227 downloads)
sw_deserts (182x250).jpg (70KB - 226 downloads)
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Proud to be Deplorable
Posts: 1929
| TXBO - 2014-04-18 4:58 PM
jbhoot - 2014-04-18 4:44 PM This is north east of LV about 80 miles...go to or through there several times a year. It is considered the Mojave desert by locals. Either way there's no sagebrush..and plenty of mesquite, they don't grow like they do in Texas...of course, nothing does. Lol! I just did a search EVERY map says it part of the Mohave.
Jeez Louis! 80 miles north of Las Vegas is so close to where many draw the line. It's very much a transitional area. Freaking Women!
Look buckwheat I am Not a woman. And Look it up yourself. You are not even close on this one. | |
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