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 Googly Goo
Posts: 7053
  
| jbhoot - 2014-04-18 5:11 PM TXBO - 2014-04-18 4:58 PM jbhoot - 2014-04-18 4:44 PM This is north east of LV about 80 miles...go to or through there several times a year. It is considered the Mojave desert by locals. Either way there's no sagebrush..and plenty of mesquite, they don't grow like they do in Texas...of course, nothing does. Lol! I just did a search EVERY map says it part of the Mohave.
LOL! Hoot, I didn't look at who posted that. I assumed it was musik fighting me. I already edited the post. Please accept my apologies....But you're wrong. I just posted a couple pics for ya. | |
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Googly Goo
Posts: 7053
| musikmaker - 2014-04-18 5:09 PM Ok...I don't want to fight, either...life's too short...or long.
There's a lot of Joshua trees just north of there towards St. George...pretty rough country! True grazing can be hard on a range...it can also be good for it. I don't know enough about it to have an opinion...aren't you glad? Lol...
There most certainly are Joshua Trees north of Vegas but I never saw any that far east. | |
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 Nicknameless
Posts: 4565
Location: I can see the end of the world from here! | TXBO - 2014-04-18 4:15 PM jbhoot - 2014-04-18 5:11 PM TXBO - 2014-04-18 4:58 PM jbhoot - 2014-04-18 4:44 PM This is north east of LV about 80 miles...go to or through there several times a year. It is considered the Mojave desert by locals. Either way there's no sagebrush..and plenty of mesquite, they don't grow like they do in Texas...of course, nothing does. Lol! I just did a search EVERY map says it part of the Mohave. Look buckwheat I am Not a woman. And Look it up yourself. You are not even close on this one.
I so needed that laugh!  | |
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| musikmaker - 2014-04-18 3:47 PM smiley - 2014-04-18 2:30 PM bscanchaser - 2014-04-18 12:46 PM So this to kind of a question for those who are big on the States taking control back over the lands that the Fed’s run. I know several other Western states have looked into this possibility- my question to you is what makes you certain that Nevada is wanting to move in that direction? I have attended my County Commissioner meeting regarding AB 221 and the impacts it would have to the State and Counties. From my prospective of these meetings, it doesn’t seem likely to go forward.
The County Commissioners indicated that the State would push down majority of the management responsibilities to the County levels if they pursue taking over the land. Our County is pretty well off financially but had major concerns about the overall costs of implementation, management and lack of personnel and equipment that would be necessary to move forward without change in use. They said that a large portion of the land that the State takes over would need to be sold to be private ground to limit the responsibilities that the County would have for management. Public concern seemed to revolve around the large stake holders in our area (meaning the large companies ie. mining, gas, power) that would likely purchase and take over majority of the ex-BLM land; you add this to the Rail Road checker board and this means there is no legal access to most properties- this means no hunting, no fishing, no atv, no horseback trail rides, and no open cattle grazing.
Right now, in my district there are 9,277,772 public land acres divided up into 104 allotments with 95 operators. So basically those 95 operators run an average of 97,660 acres each- if this ground were to be sold at a cheap $100/acre that would be an astounding $9,776,000 per user to maintain what they currently run. Large corporations are going to buy up this land and either close it to public use or charge for use. Seems like a lose-lose for most ranchers/users in my area. I’m guessing this will give smaller people an opportunity to purchase some cheap land but they won’t be able to sustain especially considering the current grazing number say it requires 50 acres support 1 AUM. That $1.35/AUM seems pretty cheap according to my business accounting. I honestly don’t know very many ranchers that have millions lying around to be able to purchase vast ground to protect their grazing rights- and the ranchers at these meeting had the same sentiments. 
Exactly, who thinks the states will be selling to ma and pa jones??
Not I, it will be just more land in the hands of a few.
I've heard all the fearful 'what if's' and all I can really say is: every other state had the opportunity to grow their product...why not us? It's past time. Aside from the fears of what the state or private property owners would do...how about the fact that the public is already being locked out of the land?
Also...I know of large tracts of land that's for sale now and has been for many, many years...nobody wanted to buy it 100 yrs ago and they still don't.
What exactly do you mean by “put the land into production” and “grow their product”? If you hadn't posted that you use to live in Clark county I would seriously say you come off as someone who has never been to Nevada or know our economy. This isn’t a green rolling grass state like Kentucky or corn rows for miles like Nebraska where people can make a living off a small portion of ground. Basically our State has 3 economic systems- Ranching, Mining and Tourism. All 3 use BLM public ground at the same time under the multi-use provision. By selling off the land for private use you basically limit what industry is available to that site... My bet is that mining wins since they have the most money.
I do not have fears about what private ownership will do- I know the reality. I have family in other states that do not have public ground. They are limited on what they can do and rely on neighbors/connections to fulfill their needs/wants if they can’t do something on their own property-not the case here. So I’m looking off my property onto BLM land right now and this is what I see- there are cows grazing the hill behind my house, an open pit mine hauling material, kids that ride their 4-wheelers up the canyon, a family that taking their kids to fish the creek and 3 people up riding horses up the canyon- all simultaneously - If this becomes private owned, none of this would be occurring. Do you use public land for anything? A large portion of the people in our area use it every day and see the value of keeping it public whether it’s for recreational use or business use and are against the State taking over ownership knowing there is a possibility the changes could affect their everyday activities. The fact that someone OWNS large tracts of land they can’t sell doesn’t mean much to me- the fact that this same land is private owned and not being USED for anything speaks volumes. This is basically where we will be if all Public land goes private- a bunch of bare ground that has been made useless to everyone.
You mention being locked out of public land- I have NEVER seen this under normal circumstances; during fires and round-ups of illegal grazers-yes, to protect people from getting into a place and not being able to get out, but not ever beyond these circumstances.
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 Proud to be Deplorable
Posts: 1929
| musikmaker - 2014-04-18 5:22 PM
TXBO - 2014-04-18 4:15 PM jbhoot - 2014-04-18 5:11 PM TXBO - 2014-04-18 4:58 PM jbhoot - 2014-04-18 4:44 PM This is north east of LV about 80 miles...go to or through there several times a year. It is considered the Mojave desert by locals. Either way there's no sagebrush..and plenty of mesquite, they don't grow like they do in Texas...of course, nothing does. Lol! I just did a search EVERY map says it part of the Mohave. Look buckwheat I am Not a woman. And Look it up yourself. You are not even close on this one.
I so needed that laugh!
OK I know I am getting old BUT the last time I checked I was still a man and everything still works LOL | |
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  That's White "Man" to You
Posts: 5515
| TXBO - 2014-04-18 5:19 PM musikmaker - 2014-04-18 5:09 PM Ok...I don't want to fight, either...life's too short...or long.
There's a lot of Joshua trees just north of there towards St. George...pretty rough country! True grazing can be hard on a range...it can also be good for it. I don't know enough about it to have an opinion...aren't you glad? Lol...
There most certainly are Joshua Trees north of Vegas but I never saw any that far east.
There are Joshua trees all around Mesquite Nevada, especially east. | |
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Googly Goo
Posts: 7053
| Whiteboy - 2014-04-18 5:34 PM TXBO - 2014-04-18 5:19 PM musikmaker - 2014-04-18 5:09 PM Ok...I don't want to fight, either...life's too short...or long.
There's a lot of Joshua trees just north of there towards St. George...pretty rough country! True grazing can be hard on a range...it can also be good for it. I don't know enough about it to have an opinion...aren't you glad? Lol...
There most certainly are Joshua Trees north of Vegas but I never saw any that far east.
Then I'd say that's Mohave desert. | |
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Googly Goo
Posts: 7053
| Here's a link to that second map that's easier to see.
http://paulmirocha.com/projects/soutwestern-deserts/#.U1Gp1cJOW70 | |
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 Semper Fi
Location: North Texas | jbhoot - 2014-04-18 5:33 PM
musikmaker - 2014-04-18 5:22 PM
TXBO - 2014-04-18 4:15 PM jbhoot - 2014-04-18 5:11 PM TXBO - 2014-04-18 4:58 PM jbhoot - 2014-04-18 4:44 PM This is north east of LV about 80 miles...go to or through there several times a year. It is considered the Mojave desert by locals. Either way there's no sagebrush..and plenty of mesquite, they don't grow like they do in Texas...of course, nothing does. Lol! I just did a search EVERY map says it part of the Mohave. Look buckwheat I am Not a woman. And Look it up yourself. You are not even close on this one.
OK I know I am getting old BUT the last time I checked I was still a man and everything still works LOL
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Semper Fi
Location: North Texas |
Per the second illustration/map, http://paulmirocha.com/projects/soutwestern-deserts/#.U1G6oekU9qV the Bunkerville Area is borderline or go both ways! | |
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Googly Goo
Posts: 7053
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They're just picking on me, FH, cause I'm a tree-huggin' progressive. | |
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Semper Fi
Location: North Texas | TXBO - 2014-04-18 7:01 PM
They're just picking on me, FH, cause I'm a tree-huggin' progressive.
Literally LMAO
Yeah right!
heheeheheheehehehh | |
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Semper Fi
Location: North Texas | foundation horse - 2014-04-18 7:10 PM
TXBO - 2014-04-18 7:01 PM
They're just picking on me, FH, cause I'm a tree-huggin' progressive.
Literally LMAO
Yeah right!
heheeheheheehehehh
Now it is my turn for a laugh. Tears rolling from laughter! | |
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Semper Fi
Location: North Texas | TXBO - 2014-04-18 7:01 PM
They're just picking on me, FH, cause I'm a tree-huggin' progressive.
You are about as much a Tree Hugging Progressive as I am The Man in The Moon! LMAO Still laughing!
Edited by foundation horse 2014-04-18 7:14 PM
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 Expert
Posts: 4121
Location: SE Louisiana | foundation horse - 2014-04-18 7:13 PM
TXBO - 2014-04-18 7:01 PM
They're just picking on me, FH, cause I'm a tree-huggin' progressive.
You are about as much a Tree Hugging Progressive as I am The Man in The Moon! LMAO Still laughing!
You need glasses... He's got a tree right there in his hand!! | |
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Nicknameless
Posts: 4565
Location: I can see the end of the world from here! | bscanchaser - 2014-04-18 4:32 PM musikmaker - 2014-04-18 3:47 PM smiley - 2014-04-18 2:30 PM bscanchaser - 2014-04-18 12:46 PM So this to kind of a question for those who are big on the States taking control back over the lands that the Fed’s run. I know several other Western states have looked into this possibility- my question to you is what makes you certain that Nevada is wanting to move in that direction? I have attended my County Commissioner meeting regarding AB 221 and the impacts it would have to the State and Counties. From my prospective of these meetings, it doesn’t seem likely to go forward.
The County Commissioners indicated that the State would push down majority of the management responsibilities to the County levels if they pursue taking over the land. Our County is pretty well off financially but had major concerns about the overall costs of implementation, management and lack of personnel and equipment that would be necessary to move forward without change in use. They said that a large portion of the land that the State takes over would need to be sold to be private ground to limit the responsibilities that the County would have for management. Public concern seemed to revolve around the large stake holders in our area (meaning the large companies ie. mining, gas, power) that would likely purchase and take over majority of the ex-BLM land; you add this to the Rail Road checker board and this means there is no legal access to most properties- this means no hunting, no fishing, no atv, no horseback trail rides, and no open cattle grazing.
Right now, in my district there are 9,277,772 public land acres divided up into 104 allotments with 95 operators. So basically those 95 operators run an average of 97,660 acres each- if this ground were to be sold at a cheap $100/acre that would be an astounding $9,776,000 per user to maintain what they currently run. Large corporations are going to buy up this land and either close it to public use or charge for use. Seems like a lose-lose for most ranchers/users in my area. I’m guessing this will give smaller people an opportunity to purchase some cheap land but they won’t be able to sustain especially considering the current grazing number say it requires 50 acres support 1 AUM. That $1.35/AUM seems pretty cheap according to my business accounting. I honestly don’t know very many ranchers that have millions lying around to be able to purchase vast ground to protect their grazing rights- and the ranchers at these meeting had the same sentiments.
Exactly, who thinks the states will be selling to ma and pa jones??
Not I, it will be just more land in the hands of a few.
I've heard all the fearful 'what if's' and all I can really say is: every other state had the opportunity to grow their product...why not us? It's past time. Aside from the fears of what the state or private property owners would do...how about the fact that the public is already being locked out of the land?
Also...I know of large tracts of land that's for sale now and has been for many, many years...nobody wanted to buy it 100 yrs ago and they still don't.
What exactly do you mean by “put the land into production” and “grow their product”? If you hadn't posted that you use to live in Clark county I would seriously say you come off as someone who has never been to Nevada or know our economy. This isn’t a green rolling grass state like Kentucky or corn rows for miles like Nebraska where people can make a living off a small portion of ground. Basically our State has 3 economic systems- Ranching, Mining and Tourism. All 3 use BLM public ground at the same time under the multi-use provision. By selling off the land for private use you basically limit what industry is available to that site... My bet is that mining wins since they have the most money.
I do not have fears about what private ownership will do- I know the reality. I have family in other states that do not have public ground. They are limited on what they can do and rely on neighbors/connections to fulfill their needs/wants if they can’t do something on their own property-not the case here. So I’m looking off my property onto BLM land right now and this is what I see- there are cows grazing the hill behind my house, an open pit mine hauling material, kids that ride their 4-wheelers up the canyon, a family that taking their kids to fish the creek and 3 people up riding horses up the canyon- all simultaneously - If this becomes private owned, none of this would be occurring. Do you use public land for anything? A large portion of the people in our area use it every day and see the value of keeping it public whether it’s for recreational use or business use and are against the State taking over ownership knowing there is a possibility the changes could affect their everyday activities. The fact that someone OWNS large tracts of land they can’t sell doesn’t mean much to me- the fact that this same land is private owned and not being USED for anything speaks volumes. This is basically where we will be if all Public land goes private- a bunch of bare ground that has been made useless to everyone.
You mention being locked out of public land- I have NEVER seen this under normal circumstances; during fires and round-ups of illegal grazers-yes, to protect people from getting into a place and not being able to get out, but not ever beyond these circumstances.
You have mistaken me for someone else as I've never lived in Nv...I live in Utah. San Juan County, southeast corner...we have 6 national 'protected areas'& various other parks...Canyonlands Park, Glen Canyon (Lake Powell, Hovenweep, Natural Bridges, Rainbow Bridge, Manti-LaSal Forest...Valley of the Gods, Goosenecks State Park, Edge of the Cedars...oh yeah...Monument Valley...then there's Cedar Mesa (and Grand Gulch Primitive Area), White Canyon, Dark Canyon and the Abajo Mountains...and much more. Most of these 'areas' were open to travel...keep in mind that it's limited at best even 'open' as it's very rough & rocky terrain...there have been access roads & trails throughout as there used to be many uranium mines in the county and oil in some parts. The mountains we used to have access to for camping, hiking, horeback riding & hunting are now available by permit only...some places are a 2 year wait...that includes the river rafting (we own 2 miles of riverfront property and are not 'allowed' to raft it without a permit that takes 2-4 yrs to obtain). Cedar Mesa...what a wonderful place it used to be! We'd go up and camp, ride, gather wood and pinon nuts...now it's a hiking area only & parts of it you must have a permit for horses (they must wear a diaper!), the entire mesa is 'bugged' with cameras & noise activated devices that alarm the BLM that you're there...last year a Navajo family were gathering pinon nuts & a BLM ranger made them dump them on the ground, he impounded their vehicle & charged them. (Using his 'discretion'). This is the new norm.
Do we use public land for anything? Not so much anymore...
I hope that explains a bit more as I have no idea what different areas are dealing with...we're a 'hotspot' and a target for even more Wilderness. Something we're fighting & I won't apologize for my attitude about an out of control gov't that is two-faced.
We're either FOR big government or we're AGAINST it...can't have it both ways.
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Googly Goo
Posts: 7053
| musikmaker - 2014-04-18 10:03 PM ...
We're either FOR big government or we're AGAINST it...can't have it both ways.
I gotcha..... So even though I lost a good friend in the Oklahoma City bombing, I need to be in support of Timothy McVeigh? | |
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Nicknameless
Posts: 4565
Location: I can see the end of the world from here! | TXBO - 2014-04-19 8:41 AM musikmaker - 2014-04-18 10:03 PM ...
We're either FOR big government or we're AGAINST it...can't have it both ways.
I gotcha..... So even though I lost a good friend in the Oklahoma City bombing, I need to be in support of Timothy McVeigh?
I'm sorry for your loss, but, I certainly hope you're not comparing Bundy & our desire to control the land within our states to McVeigh???
It does help to understand your emotional views and support of 'some' big gov't.
Like I said...we can't have it both ways...we either give the control to the fed or keep it for ourselves as was the intent of our form of gov't. We have other options to replace & improve those agencies...hopefully ones that wouldn't require people to be targets, whether it be IRS agents or cattlemen.
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Nicknameless
Posts: 4565
Location: I can see the end of the world from here! | You're either FOR big gov't or Against it...we can't have it both ways. And for all the people in states without the public lands issue...if you won't allow US to be on equal footing with YOU, then I suggest you give all your excess private property and parks to the fed, too...then we'll be on equal footing.
http://fox13now.com/2014/04/18/officials-discuss-federal-ownership-of-lands-in-western-states/ | |
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| musikmaker - 2014-04-18 10:03 PM bscanchaser - 2014-04-18 4:32 PM musikmaker - 2014-04-18 3:47 PM smiley - 2014-04-18 2:30 PM bscanchaser - 2014-04-18 12:46 PM So this to kind of a question for those who are big on the States taking control back over the lands that the Fed’s run. I know several other Western states have looked into this possibility- my question to you is what makes you certain that Nevada is wanting to move in that direction? I have attended my County Commissioner meeting regarding AB 221 and the impacts it would have to the State and Counties. From my prospective of these meetings, it doesn’t seem likely to go forward.
The County Commissioners indicated that the State would push down majority of the management responsibilities to the County levels if they pursue taking over the land. Our County is pretty well off financially but had major concerns about the overall costs of implementation, management and lack of personnel and equipment that would be necessary to move forward without change in use. They said that a large portion of the land that the State takes over would need to be sold to be private ground to limit the responsibilities that the County would have for management. Public concern seemed to revolve around the large stake holders in our area (meaning the large companies ie. mining, gas, power) that would likely purchase and take over majority of the ex-BLM land; you add this to the Rail Road checker board and this means there is no legal access to most properties- this means no hunting, no fishing, no atv, no horseback trail rides, and no open cattle grazing.
Right now, in my district there are 9,277,772 public land acres divided up into 104 allotments with 95 operators. So basically those 95 operators run an average of 97,660 acres each- if this ground were to be sold at a cheap $100/acre that would be an astounding $9,776,000 per user to maintain what they currently run. Large corporations are going to buy up this land and either close it to public use or charge for use. Seems like a lose-lose for most ranchers/users in my area. I’m guessing this will give smaller people an opportunity to purchase some cheap land but they won’t be able to sustain especially considering the current grazing number say it requires 50 acres support 1 AUM. That $1.35/AUM seems pretty cheap according to my business accounting. I honestly don’t know very many ranchers that have millions lying around to be able to purchase vast ground to protect their grazing rights- and the ranchers at these meeting had the same sentiments.
Exactly, who thinks the states will be selling to ma and pa jones??
Not I, it will be just more land in the hands of a few.
I've heard all the fearful 'what if's' and all I can really say is: every other state had the opportunity to grow their product...why not us? It's past time. Aside from the fears of what the state or private property owners would do...how about the fact that the public is already being locked out of the land?
Also...I know of large tracts of land that's for sale now and has been for many, many years...nobody wanted to buy it 100 yrs ago and they still don't.
What exactly do you mean by “put the land into production” and “grow their product”? If you hadn't posted that you use to live in Clark county I would seriously say you come off as someone who has never been to Nevada or know our economy. This isn’t a green rolling grass state like Kentucky or corn rows for miles like Nebraska where people can make a living off a small portion of ground. Basically our State has 3 economic systems- Ranching, Mining and Tourism. All 3 use BLM public ground at the same time under the multi-use provision. By selling off the land for private use you basically limit what industry is available to that site... My bet is that mining wins since they have the most money.
I do not have fears about what private ownership will do- I know the reality. I have family in other states that do not have public ground. They are limited on what they can do and rely on neighbors/connections to fulfill their needs/wants if they can’t do something on their own property-not the case here. So I’m looking off my property onto BLM land right now and this is what I see- there are cows grazing the hill behind my house, an open pit mine hauling material, kids that ride their 4-wheelers up the canyon, a family that taking their kids to fish the creek and 3 people up riding horses up the canyon- all simultaneously - If this becomes private owned, none of this would be occurring. Do you use public land for anything? A large portion of the people in our area use it every day and see the value of keeping it public whether it’s for recreational use or business use and are against the State taking over ownership knowing there is a possibility the changes could affect their everyday activities. The fact that someone OWNS large tracts of land they can’t sell doesn’t mean much to me- the fact that this same land is private owned and not being USED for anything speaks volumes. This is basically where we will be if all Public land goes private- a bunch of bare ground that has been made useless to everyone.
You mention being locked out of public land- I have NEVER seen this under normal circumstances; during fires and round-ups of illegal grazers-yes, to protect people from getting into a place and not being able to get out, but not ever beyond these circumstances.
Do we use public land for anything? Not so much anymore...
I hope that explains a bit more as I have no idea what different areas are dealing with...we're a 'hotspot' and a target for even more Wilderness. Something we're fighting & I won't apologize for my attitude about an out of control gov't that is two-faced.
We're either FOR big government or we're AGAINST it...can't have it both ways.
That's interesting. We do not have any National Parks within this area so we do not have the same experience you have. I would imagine it is managed this way to perserve the features for generations to come. I know the indian caves here recently had some empty minded teenager go and spray paint all over the site. I know in a way it sucks for all of us but if all the sites get destroyed then there wont be anything for our children/grandchildren to have to marvel at in future generations. I would imagine if the State took over then it would still be managed the same.
General BLM ground here is open for use. People collect and sell pine nuts all the time, they issue $5 wood cutting permits and Christmas tree cutting permits. No diapers on horses either. The wilderness areas are accepted and most outdoorsmen and rancher appreciate these areas because they aren't impacted by atv's and motorcycles. Cow are easily gathered without having people interfere with what you are doing.
I'm not a big government person- trust me it p!$$es me off that my horses are better identified, tested and tracked than any person is- that said there has to be some regulation... If people would follow the law and be considerate of things that are theirs then we wouldn't have all the regulations we have. They were all made for a reason-mostly ignorant people that have no respect for things that aren't theirs.
Edited by bscanchaser 2014-04-19 10:27 AM
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