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New Info Detective
Posts: 1551
  
| rodeomom13 - 2014-04-20 9:15 PM I saw this earlier. I just wonder why the Native Americans haven't gone after the BLM before now? Why did he wait this long?
Maybe with all the publicity on the Bundy's, he just thought the time was right now!
Why did it take BLM so long to go after Bundy?
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 Nicknameless
Posts: 4565
Location: I can see the end of the world from here! | Turner1 - 2014-04-20 9:44 PM rodeomom13 - 2014-04-20 9:15 PM I saw this earlier. I just wonder why the Native Americans haven't gone after the BLM before now? Why did he wait this long?
Why did it take BLM so long to go after Bundy?
That article is from July 2011...maybe there's an update somewher? On the Navajo Reservation the tribe and chapter houses 'manage' the land... | |
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Grammar Expert
 
| musikmaker - 2014-04-19 11:17 AM TXBO, and anyone else...why are you opposed to the States having control of the land within their borders?
Is Texas so bad? Would you prefer it be under the fed?
Really curious...I've heard the arguments on here & so far I'm not convinced...maybe becasue I live here & see the vast amount of land that will never be habitable or usable for mineral extraction etc...I don't see the problem & don't see where the fed is protecting it so well, either.
If the state wants the land, I encourage them to do it through the system. If they do not, I support that as well.
I have never ever ever said I don't support state's rights - I don't see a need for the Depart. of Education, for example, but it needs to be done the way our laws allow it to be done. Not through Moon-bat Bundy. That's all I was saying. | |
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Grammar Expert
| jbhoot - 2014-04-20 8:11 PM Bibliafarm - 2014-04-20 8:32 PM These are the cows being picked up after they were ran to death or shot.  There are a lot more pictures on the site and there are more graves to dig up. There are also several videos posted of the damage they did to the water tanks. NO where in the court orders did it give them authority to do this.
IF you dont' want your cows run to death, don't leave them on property that isn't yours.
If you don't want your improvements taken down, take them down yourself and save the pieces for recycling on your own land.
If you move out of an apt., NO ONE packs your crap for you and puts it in a storage unit, they get a big roll off dumpster and throw your stuff away.
THIS is why I will never quite believe another "shocking" case again. This is so blown out of proportion and sadly so many are misinformed or simply do not care to think about this any harder than a photo online. | |
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Nicknameless
Posts: 4565
Location: I can see the end of the world from here! | smiley - 2014-04-21 8:54 AM musikmaker - 2014-04-19 11:17 AM TXBO, and anyone else...why are you opposed to the States having control of the land within their borders?
Is Texas so bad? Would you prefer it be under the fed?
Really curious...I've heard the arguments on here & so far I'm not convinced...maybe becasue I live here & see the vast amount of land that will never be habitable or usable for mineral extraction etc...I don't see the problem & don't see where the fed is protecting it so well, either.
If the state wants the land, I encourage them to do it through the system. If they do not, I support that as well.
I have never ever ever said I don't support state's rights - I don't see a need for the Depart. of Education, for example, but it needs to be done the way our laws allow it to be done. Not through Moon-bat Bundy. That's all I was saying.
The whole point of this 'stand' is that it HAS been tried throught the 'system', alas, the system is not one of our peers. In one interview that Bundy gave he expressed it quite well when he said...(to this effect)..."Imagine, that you & I are having a disagreement & rather than duke it out we agree to take it to court...we get there & you take off your shirt & put on the robe"...that sums up why he refused to obey the court orders. We've never had our voice heard out here...never. We've been 'outvoted' by those who are not even affected by it.
It sometimes takes a brave & willing person/family to become the target so the rest can finally achieve the freedom & liberty that is our birthright. Bundy's had no idea that it would come to this...it happened becasue ppl are tired of watching & doing nothing to stop the erosion of our country.
I'm very happy to see these issues nit-picked & discussed...whatever the outcome we have a chance to right some wrongs. Part of our problem in this country is 'case law'...part are agencies that make policy which is not the way it should be done, either.
I'll back anyone who gets this to the forefront in a non-violent manner...if the violence starts, then I'll have to decide who started it & what it means to our freedom & the future of our families.
It seems that the fed was very willing to continue their violence as far as they deemed 'feasable'...which has no end...I have no doubt that they would have killed the Bundy family after killing their cattle. What else did they expect? For the Bundy's to walk away? Lol...sure. They were setting them up as yet another example of 'Don't mess with the Government'.
Truly...when I think of going up against the mob, a cartel or the gov't...whew...the gov't scares me the most.
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 Proud to be Deplorable
Posts: 1929
| smiley - 2014-04-21 9:59 AM
jbhoot - 2014-04-20 8:11 PM Bibliafarm - 2014-04-20 8:32 PM These are the cows being picked up after they were ran to death or shot. There are a lot more pictures on the site and there are more graves to dig up. There are also several videos posted of the damage they did to the water tanks. NO where in the court orders did it give them authority to do this.
If you don't want your improvements taken down, take them down yourself and save the pieces for recycling on your own land.
If you move out of an apt., NO ONE packs your crap for you and puts it in a storage unit, they get a big roll off dumpster and throw your stuff away.
THIS is why I will never quite believe another "shocking" case again. This is so blown out of proportion and sadly so many are misinformed or simply do not care to think about this any harder than a photo online.
So in your mind it ok for the BLM to ignore the court orders but not Bundy. NOWHERE in the court orders was the BLM given the authority to do this. But because YOU think Bundy is a nut job you seem to give the BLM a pass. Anything goes because Bundy was wrong. I call BS to this. I am far more concerned at the over reach and lawless actions of the BLM than the simple crime of trespass by Bundy's cattle.
Edited by jbhoot 2014-04-21 10:55 AM
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Grammar Expert
| jbhoot - 2014-04-21 9:45 AM smiley - 2014-04-21 9:59 AM jbhoot - 2014-04-20 8:11 PM Bibliafarm - 2014-04-20 8:32 PM These are the cows being picked up after they were ran to death or shot. There are a lot more pictures on the site and there are more graves to dig up. There are also several videos posted of the damage they did to the water tanks. NO where in the court orders did it give them authority to do this.
If you don't want your improvements taken down, take them down yourself and save the pieces for recycling on your own land.
If you move out of an apt., NO ONE packs your crap for you and puts it in a storage unit, they get a big roll off dumpster and throw your stuff away.
THIS is why I will never quite believe another "shocking" case again. This is so blown out of proportion and sadly so many are misinformed or simply do not care to think about this any harder than a photo online. So in your mind it ok for the BLM to ignore the court orders but not Bundy. NOWHERE in the court orders was the BLM given the authority to do this. But because YOU think Bundy is a nut job you seem to give the BLM a pass. Anything goes because Bundy was wrong. I call BS to this. I am far more concerned at the over reach and lawless actions of the BLM than the simple crime of trespass by Bundy's cattle.
That is my point - they don't need a court order to remove animals/contents from their own property.
I don't hate Bundy, I think it's similar to the Hages, it will be talked about and then forgotten and they will survive or they won't. Similar to millions of people who have come before them.
Bundy is simply in the wrong. I'm not saying all cases are in the wrong, I've been reading a few that make me shake my head and wonder, but THIS case is in the wrong. As Music stated, maybe it's still for the best, since people are talking about.
Like I said before, just because you can get my dog out of YOUR chicken house without killing him doesn't mean you don't have the right to kill him, since he's on YOUR property in YOUR chicken house.
Edited by smiley 2014-04-21 11:10 AM
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Proud to be Deplorable
Posts: 1929
| smiley - 2014-04-21 11:09 AM
jbhoot - 2014-04-21 9:45 AM smiley - 2014-04-21 9:59 AM jbhoot - 2014-04-20 8:11 PM Bibliafarm - 2014-04-20 8:32 PM These are the cows being picked up after they were ran to death or shot. There are a lot more pictures on the site and there are more graves to dig up. There are also several videos posted of the damage they did to the water tanks. NO where in the court orders did it give them authority to do this.
If you don't want your improvements taken down, take them down yourself and save the pieces for recycling on your own land.
If you move out of an apt., NO ONE packs your crap for you and puts it in a storage unit, they get a big roll off dumpster and throw your stuff away.
THIS is why I will never quite believe another "shocking" case again. This is so blown out of proportion and sadly so many are misinformed or simply do not care to think about this any harder than a photo online. So in your mind it ok for the BLM to ignore the court orders but not Bundy. NOWHERE in the court orders was the BLM given the authority to do this. But because YOU think Bundy is a nut job you seem to give the BLM a pass. Anything goes because Bundy was wrong. I call BS to this. I am far more concerned at the over reach and lawless actions of the BLM than the simple crime of trespass by Bundy's cattle.
I don't hate Bundy, I think it's similar to the Hages, it will be talked about and then forgotten and they will survive or they won't. Similar to millions of people who have come before them.
Bundy is simply in the wrong. I'm not saying all cases are in the wrong, I've been reading a few that make me shake my head and wonder, but THIS case is in the wrong. As Music stated, maybe it's still for the best, since people are talking about.
Like I said before, just because you can get my dog out of YOUR chicken house without killing him doesn't mean you don't have the right to kill him, since he's on YOUR property in YOUR chicken house.
Your lack of understanding of the law is astounding. | |
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Nicknameless
Posts: 4565
Location: I can see the end of the world from here! | smiley - 2014-04-21 10:09 AM jbhoot - 2014-04-21 9:45 AM smiley - 2014-04-21 9:59 AM jbhoot - 2014-04-20 8:11 PM Bibliafarm - 2014-04-20 8:32 PM These are the cows being picked up after they were ran to death or shot. There are a lot more pictures on the site and there are more graves to dig up. There are also several videos posted of the damage they did to the water tanks. NO where in the court orders did it give them authority to do this.
If you don't want your improvements taken down, take them down yourself and save the pieces for recycling on your own land.
If you move out of an apt., NO ONE packs your crap for you and puts it in a storage unit, they get a big roll off dumpster and throw your stuff away.
THIS is why I will never quite believe another "shocking" case again. This is so blown out of proportion and sadly so many are misinformed or simply do not care to think about this any harder than a photo online. So in your mind it ok for the BLM to ignore the court orders but not Bundy. NOWHERE in the court orders was the BLM given the authority to do this. But because YOU think Bundy is a nut job you seem to give the BLM a pass. Anything goes because Bundy was wrong. I call BS to this. I am far more concerned at the over reach and lawless actions of the BLM than the simple crime of trespass by Bundy's cattle.
I don't hate Bundy, I think it's similar to the Hages, it will be talked about and then forgotten and they will survive or they won't. Similar to millions of people who have come before them.
Bundy is simply in the wrong. I'm not saying all cases are in the wrong, I've been reading a few that make me shake my head and wonder, but THIS case is in the wrong. As Music stated, maybe it's still for the best, since people are talking about.
Like I said before, just because you can get my dog out of YOUR chicken house without killing him doesn't mean you don't have the right to kill him, since he's on YOUR property in YOUR chicken house.
Although I do understand 'what' you're saying (Smiley), the debate is over more than 'ownership'...who has jurisdiction & authority? Is it the Sheriff or the fed? If it's the Sheriff then Bundy is answerable to that department only...we're not 'subjects' of the federal gov't....or are we? If so then we've already lost.
Concerning our possessions...they, too, would fall under the jurisdiction of the elected Sheriff. Does the fed have the authority to take possession of our personal property?
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 Googly Goo
Posts: 7053
| musikmaker - 2014-04-21 11:28 AM Although I do understand 'what' you're saying (Smiley), the debate is over more than 'ownership'...who has jurisdiction & authority? Is it the Sheriff or the fed? If it's the Sheriff then Bundy is answerable to that department only...we're not 'subjects' of the federal gov't....or are we? If so then we've already lost.
Concerning our possessions...they, too, would fall under the jurisdiction of the elected Sheriff. Does the fed have the authority to take possession of our personal property?
Read Article 1, Sec 2 of Constitution of State of Nevada.
It gives authority and jurisdiction to the Federal Government. It is so broad, it will turn your stomach.
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 464
| I've read most of these comments, and stopped for a while, then started back. I'm posting a link to a video of a gentleman that had the exact same situation as Mr. Bundy. One difference being he had the resources to fight the legal battle. It's 45 minutes long, and starts out a little boring, so stay with it if you are interested. Evident the "whole" story is told in the media because it's too long, and too confusing.
http://vimeo.com/m/8520897 | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 464
| Part 2 of the video. Also lengthy. Both are worth watching if someone is interested.
http://vimeo.com/m/9776367 | |
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Grammar Expert
| jbhoot - 2014-04-21 10:19 AM smiley - 2014-04-21 11:09 AM jbhoot - 2014-04-21 9:45 AM smiley - 2014-04-21 9:59 AM jbhoot - 2014-04-20 8:11 PM Bibliafarm - 2014-04-20 8:32 PM These are the cows being picked up after they were ran to death or shot. There are a lot more pictures on the site and there are more graves to dig up. There are also several videos posted of the damage they did to the water tanks. NO where in the court orders did it give them authority to do this.
If you don't want your improvements taken down, take them down yourself and save the pieces for recycling on your own land.
If you move out of an apt., NO ONE packs your crap for you and puts it in a storage unit, they get a big roll off dumpster and throw your stuff away.
THIS is why I will never quite believe another "shocking" case again. This is so blown out of proportion and sadly so many are misinformed or simply do not care to think about this any harder than a photo online. So in your mind it ok for the BLM to ignore the court orders but not Bundy. NOWHERE in the court orders was the BLM given the authority to do this. But because YOU think Bundy is a nut job you seem to give the BLM a pass. Anything goes because Bundy was wrong. I call BS to this. I am far more concerned at the over reach and lawless actions of the BLM than the simple crime of trespass by Bundy's cattle.
I don't hate Bundy, I think it's similar to the Hages, it will be talked about and then forgotten and they will survive or they won't. Similar to millions of people who have come before them.
Bundy is simply in the wrong. I'm not saying all cases are in the wrong, I've been reading a few that make me shake my head and wonder, but THIS case is in the wrong. As Music stated, maybe it's still for the best, since people are talking about.
Like I said before, just because you can get my dog out of YOUR chicken house without killing him doesn't mean you don't have the right to kill him, since he's on YOUR property in YOUR chicken house. Your lack of understanding of the law is astounding.
A court order is just that, a court order. If your property is on mine and I hold a court order, I will simply throw your stuff away. Or load up your cattle as the BLM did.
I've never been served with a court order, thankfully. And I hope to never be served with one.
Edited by smiley 2014-04-21 1:33 PM
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Grammar Expert
| Bigfoot - 2014-04-21 11:52 AM I've read most of these comments, and stopped for a while, then started back. I'm posting a link to a video of a gentleman that had the exact same situation as Mr. Bundy. One difference being he had the resources to fight the legal battle. It's 45 minutes long, and starts out a little boring, so stay with it if you are interested. Evident the "whole" story is told in the media because it's too long, and too confusing. http://vimeo.com/m/8520897
Very interesting. Not through the whole thing yet, but very interesting.
He wrote a book too Storm over Rangelands but used copies are now about $250 bucks............ | |
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Proud to be Deplorable
Posts: 1929
| smiley - 2014-04-21 1:32 PM
jbhoot - 2014-04-21 10:19 AM smiley - 2014-04-21 11:09 AM jbhoot - 2014-04-21 9:45 AM smiley - 2014-04-21 9:59 AM jbhoot - 2014-04-20 8:11 PM Bibliafarm - 2014-04-20 8:32 PM These are the cows being picked up after they were ran to death or shot. There are a lot more pictures on the site and there are more graves to dig up. There are also several videos posted of the damage they did to the water tanks. NO where in the court orders did it give them authority to do this.
If you don't want your improvements taken down, take them down yourself and save the pieces for recycling on your own land.
If you move out of an apt., NO ONE packs your crap for you and puts it in a storage unit, they get a big roll off dumpster and throw your stuff away.
THIS is why I will never quite believe another "shocking" case again. This is so blown out of proportion and sadly so many are misinformed or simply do not care to think about this any harder than a photo online. So in your mind it ok for the BLM to ignore the court orders but not Bundy. NOWHERE in the court orders was the BLM given the authority to do this. But because YOU think Bundy is a nut job you seem to give the BLM a pass. Anything goes because Bundy was wrong. I call BS to this. I am far more concerned at the over reach and lawless actions of the BLM than the simple crime of trespass by Bundy's cattle.
I don't hate Bundy, I think it's similar to the Hages, it will be talked about and then forgotten and they will survive or they won't. Similar to millions of people who have come before them.
Bundy is simply in the wrong. I'm not saying all cases are in the wrong, I've been reading a few that make me shake my head and wonder, but THIS case is in the wrong. As Music stated, maybe it's still for the best, since people are talking about.
Like I said before, just because you can get my dog out of YOUR chicken house without killing him doesn't mean you don't have the right to kill him, since he's on YOUR property in YOUR chicken house. Your lack of understanding of the law is astounding.
A court order is just that, a court order. If your property is on mine and I hold a court order, I will simply throw your stuff away. Or load up your cattle as the BLM did.
I've never been served with a court order, thankfully. And I hope to never be served with one.
If you did what you say then you would be in violation of the court order and could be held in contempt of court. It would be a lot easier if you just read the court orders. The judge granted the BLM the authority to remove and impound the cattle. That's it. Not sell or destroy his property. Now Bundy has a very good case for damages really dumb on the BLM's part. | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 464
| smiley - 2014-04-21 1:43 PM
Bigfoot - 2014-04-21 11:52 AM I've read most of these comments, and stopped for a while, then started back. I'm posting a link to a video of a gentleman that had the exact same situation as Mr. Bundy. One difference being he had the resources to fight the legal battle. It's 45 minutes long, and starts out a little boring, so stay with it if you are interested. Evident the "whole" story is told in the media because it's too long, and too confusing. http://vimeo.com/m/8520897
He wrote a book too Storm over Rangelands but used copies are now about $250 bucks............
This gentleman won his day in court, and the feds are yet to pay. | |
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Nicknameless
Posts: 4565
Location: I can see the end of the world from here! | Here's something our county commissioner sent via fb...he's refering to a map of Utah w/our county outlined:
I sent this to the State BLM director a few weeks ago. This boundary means something. It is a geographic and jurisdictional boundary of the County. Land within this boundary is under the jurisdiction of the the State of Utah and of its sub-unit San Juan County. Commissioners are elected by the residents of this County. They are charged with safeguarding the health, safety, welfare, and morals of their constituents. The State and Federal government owns 92% of this county. The Federal government is a proprietor, they do not have the authority to close roads or enforce state law. They are obligated to conform to the County Master Plan in so far as that plan does not violate the law.
Further, the States have the right (and obligation) to frustrate Congress, but congress does not have the right to frustrate the States.
ETA: Phil:
I support Ken Ivory completely. The truth is that the federal government does not have a leg to stand on when it comes to federal real estate. Either they fall the jurisdiction test, or they are forced to acknowledge their obligation to dispose. The more they overstep their jurisdiction the louder will be the demand for disposition.
Edited by musikmaker 2014-04-21 2:25 PM
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Grammar Expert
| jbhoot - 2014-04-21 1:09 PM smiley - 2014-04-21 1:32 PM jbhoot - 2014-04-21 10:19 AM smiley - 2014-04-21 11:09 AM jbhoot - 2014-04-21 9:45 AM smiley - 2014-04-21 9:59 AM jbhoot - 2014-04-20 8:11 PM Bibliafarm - 2014-04-20 8:32 PM These are the cows being picked up after they were ran to death or shot. There are a lot more pictures on the site and there are more graves to dig up. There are also several videos posted of the damage they did to the water tanks. NO where in the court orders did it give them authority to do this.
If you don't want your improvements taken down, take them down yourself and save the pieces for recycling on your own land.
If you move out of an apt., NO ONE packs your crap for you and puts it in a storage unit, they get a big roll off dumpster and throw your stuff away.
THIS is why I will never quite believe another "shocking" case again. This is so blown out of proportion and sadly so many are misinformed or simply do not care to think about this any harder than a photo online. So in your mind it ok for the BLM to ignore the court orders but not Bundy. NOWHERE in the court orders was the BLM given the authority to do this. But because YOU think Bundy is a nut job you seem to give the BLM a pass. Anything goes because Bundy was wrong. I call BS to this. I am far more concerned at the over reach and lawless actions of the BLM than the simple crime of trespass by Bundy's cattle.
I don't hate Bundy, I think it's similar to the Hages, it will be talked about and then forgotten and they will survive or they won't. Similar to millions of people who have come before them.
Bundy is simply in the wrong. I'm not saying all cases are in the wrong, I've been reading a few that make me shake my head and wonder, but THIS case is in the wrong. As Music stated, maybe it's still for the best, since people are talking about.
Like I said before, just because you can get my dog out of YOUR chicken house without killing him doesn't mean you don't have the right to kill him, since he's on YOUR property in YOUR chicken house. Your lack of understanding of the law is astounding.
A court order is just that, a court order. If your property is on mine and I hold a court order, I will simply throw your stuff away. Or load up your cattle as the BLM did.
I've never been served with a court order, thankfully. And I hope to never be served with one. If you did what you say then you would be in violation of the court order and could be held in contempt of court. It would be a lot easier if you just read the court orders. The judge granted the BLM the authority to remove and impound the cattle. That's it. Not sell or destroy his property. Now Bundy has a very good case for damages really dumb on the BLM's part.
Those cattle were killed - if they were killed - in the process of doing just what you said. Again, I haven't seen the court orders, if you have a link I'll read it.
I'm not a lawyer by any shot, but I think that the BLM will win in this situation based on the implied ability to get the cattle off the land - the court order also did not state - to my understanding "HOW" they could do it. They did it their way. | |
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Grammar Expert
| Bigfoot - 2014-04-21 1:09 PM smiley - 2014-04-21 1:43 PM Bigfoot - 2014-04-21 11:52 AM I've read most of these comments, and stopped for a while, then started back. I'm posting a link to a video of a gentleman that had the exact same situation as Mr. Bundy. One difference being he had the resources to fight the legal battle. It's 45 minutes long, and starts out a little boring, so stay with it if you are interested. Evident the "whole" story is told in the media because it's too long, and too confusing. http://vimeo.com/m/8520897
He wrote a book too Storm over Rangelands but used copies are now about $250 bucks............ This gentleman won his day in court, and the feds are yet to pay.
Yes, I agree. It's a very interesting video.
And he did it the right way and from what I understand his family still has the ranch they started on, they don't use the public land, correct?
And they've likely gone broke doing so. | |
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  Semper Fi
Location: North Texas | Bigfoot - 2014-04-21 12:52 PM
I've read most of these comments, and stopped for a while, then started back. I'm posting a link to a video of a gentleman that had the exact same situation as Mr. Bundy. One difference being he had the resources to fight the legal battle. It's 45 minutes long, and starts out a little boring, so stay with it if you are interested. Evident the "whole" story is told in the media because it's too long, and too confusing.
http://vimeo.com/m/8520897
I have just finished Part I and to say it is interesting would be an Understatement! The Term "Conspiracy" was coined by The Federal Government's Own Lawyer! Water Rights is at the very core of these actions! | |
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