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 Googly Goo
Posts: 7053
  
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  Semper Fi
  
Location: North Texas | smiley - 2014-04-22 3:17 PM
foundation horse - 2014-04-22 2:13 PM
smiley - 2014-04-22 2:55 PM
jbhoot - 2014-04-22 11:35 AM foundation horse - 2014-04-22 10:14 AM smiley - 2014-04-21 11:19 PM foundation horse - 2014-04-21 2:25 PM Still viewing the Part II, but an interesting point is "The Environmentalist(s) are pawns".
I agree, that was a good point. The water rights are what is bugging me at the moment, who the hell is United Water and why would we sell water rights to non-Americans.
I still think Bundy is wrong, but clearly there is a history here that is hard to comprehend unless you really dig.
Follow the money! There is literally millions of dollars at stake involved with these water rights. FH take a google sat. fly over of Bundy's deeded 150 acres. It is all irrigated he raises melons and hay on it. He has about two miles of river frontage. Hmmmm 150 acres of deeded land with river frontage just off a major interchange and just north of lake mead. Ya think it might have value to a developer. Plus his water rights. As you say follow the money!!!!!
Really? This remains to be seen. Remember how important (I.E. Valuable ) Water Rights are in the arid desert of Nevada.
Now here is an analogy:
'I' "own" a section (640 acres ) of pastureland. I do not "own" the mineral rights to said land. And Oil is discovered under that land.............The mineral rights owners can sell those minerals from under that land, thereby in effect, controlling or 'owning' that land.
The same concept applies to Water Rights and The Bundy Family owns the water rights controlling the land in question. Remember per the Hage Case, if One owns the Water Rights controlling a piece of rangeland, then One does NOT require a Grazing Permit in order to use said range. Or have you watched Pt. II of Hage's Interview yet. And The Federal Court of Claims (CFC ) agrees with Hage.
The Bundy's OWN The Water Rights in that area!
Well, they CLAIM to own the water rights, that remains to be seen, but I did watch the Hage interviews and I thought they were interesting, well done and very informative and I bought his first edition of his book online as well. Looking forward to reading it. Having said all that, he's not Bundy and Bundy is not him.
NO ONE at this point is trying to take Bundy's land, nor was that even a consideration toward his deeded land by anyone's estimation. Now, if they end up taking it in the future, I would have a hard time feeling sorry for Bundy, who has been illegally grazing for close to 25 years. He racked up those bills, no one did it for him, and I would venture to say that stopping the BLM from doing their court ordered duty, is racking up even more debt for Bundy.
That is not a conspiracy, that is simply a man fighting a battle that he's going to lose. IMO of course.
I agree about the claim of owning the water rights. Let us say he does for the sake of argument. Then with that said Bundy controls the range land that this water flows on.....................This is in line with that convoluted named Western Water Doctrine that I cannot for the life of me remember its correct name! heheheehhhee
I may be barking up the wrong the tree here, I do not know. But I do know this for certain! The BLM's response was heavy handed and over the top! A simple lien on the sale of the disputed cattle would have sufficed. And again follow the money in this little deally whopper. Just WHO stands to gain the MOST with the control of said Range?
Again, this is bigger than a simple extended trespassing charge. The Culture of The BLM has been documented for decades.
Also Smiley, do You agree with Colorado's Claim of Rainfall Runoff on Private Citizen's Structures and that said Private Citizen's do not own said Rainfall Runoff? This issue falls under The Water Rights Question as well. | |
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 Nicknameless
Posts: 4565
Location: I can see the end of the world from here! | smiley - 2014-04-22 2:01 PM foundation horse - 2014-04-22 1:55 PM smiley - 2014-04-22 2:52 PM
Is this the one where the guy can't get the donkey to move?? It's not abuse, come on already. That right there is a donkey getting the better part of a man. IT shows how smart the donkey is and how not smart the man is...............I laughed by the end. That donkey owned that man at the end, he never moved. This video also illustrates the use of Flying Helicopter Pilot employing the use of a landing skid to overturn a donkey in motion. Please do not out this description. For I watched the video.
In the past they would have donkey roasts with the excess donkeys. I think the activists are ridiculous in what they expect, like the new story that the BLM sold cattle to Canada for slaughter.
They were not wild horses, they were left over rodeo stock, then the contractor died and never removed them and no one else did either, so they were rounded up and sold to the highest bidder. Can you imagine if the BLM took in all the unwanted horses in the US and called them "wild." Good night.
IF we were smart as a society, we would be feeding our homeless people horse and donkey steak.
I got brave enough to watch it...you may not think it was abuse & the donkey 'won', but, in my world I don't know one person who would treat any animal like that. We eat meat & I agree that horses & donkeys could & should be used to feed people who are willing to eat them, however, I was raised to treat all animals with dignity, to make a clean kill a priority & to give thanks. Abuse is abuse. I cannot say that I saw 1 second of anything to laugh at. What are the choices? I'm sure that just about anyone could come up with something better than that. No small wonder that ppl support the Humane Society w/a-holes like that running things.
Look...I realize that you're not going to change your mind about how you think the Bundy's are wrong & the gov't can do NO wrong...but, to continue to defend them at this level is just...somehow.
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Semper Fi
Location: North Texas | TXBO - 2014-04-22 3:26 PM
It does, does it not? I agree, I could well wrong in believing Cliven Bundy's Claim. Wouldn't be the first time I have been hoodwinked.
However, The Hages and the Individuals in New Mexico and along The Red River in Texas, I believe are legitimate Stands Against An Overbearing Government! | |
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 Roan Wonder
Location: SW MO | http://21stcenturywire.com/2014/04/22/blm-shame-shocking-animal-auschwitz-left-behind-at-the-bundy-ranch-in-the-nevada/ | |
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Semper Fi
Location: North Texas | smiley - 2014-04-22 2:59 PM jbhoot - 2014-04-22 12:44 PM foundation horse - 2014-04-22 12:55 PM jbhoot - 2014-04-22 12:35 PM foundation horse - 2014-04-22 10:14 AM smiley - 2014-04-21 11:19 PM foundation horse - 2014-04-21 2:25 PM Still viewing the Part II, but an interesting point is "The Environmentalist(s) are pawns". I agree, that was a good point. The water rights are what is bugging me at the moment, who the hell is United Water and why would we sell water rights to non-Americans.
I still think Bundy is wrong, but clearly there is a history here that is hard to comprehend unless you really dig. Follow the money! There is literally millions of dollars at stake involved with these water rights. FH take a google sat. fly over of Bundy's deeded 150 acres. It is all irrigated he raises melons and hay on it. He has about two miles of river frontage. Hmmmm 150 acres of deeded land with river frontage just off a major interchange and just north of lake mead. Ya think it might have value to a developer. Plus his water rights. As you say follow the money!!!!! It IS conceivable that the BLM would attempt via The IRS to TAKE that 150 Deeded Acres in lieu of fines................................... They don't need the IRS. The judge already gave a blanket judgment to the BLM. Right now he has granted them the right to remove and impound the cattle. But all they have to do is go in front of the judge to get the right to go after the deeded land. I have wondered from the beginning why the BLM waited so long to go after Bundy. I think it was all about running up the bill so they could justify taking the whole thing. If this was only about the cattle the BLM could have hired 12 wranglers on horse back and taken the cattle off at a couple truck loads at a time and this would have never made the news. They have had more than enough time to do so.
They waited so long because it was in court and they had already had such bad press on Hage and the other ranchers. See how they are ****ed if they do and ****ed if they don't? You're seeing black helicopters.
12 wranglers and a few head at a time...............LOL - yeah, the BLM has the time and energy to do it that way. Come on, that is not realistic and it was the Bundy's that called for "people to show up in large numbers" - the BLM would be stupid to not show in numbers as well.
This 'bad press' as you call it is documented facts! Otherwise why would The Federal Court of Claims (CFC) have cided with The Hage Family referencing the Fourth Amendment and Illegal (or uncompensated) Takings? Ever think of that?
Reference:
Amendment IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
Edited by foundation horse 2014-04-22 3:45 PM
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Semper Fi
Location: North Texas | smiley - 2014-04-22 3:19 PM
foundation horse - 2014-04-22 2:05 PM smiley - 2014-04-22 3:01 PM foundation horse - 2014-04-22 1:55 PM smiley - 2014-04-22 2:52 PM
Is this the one where the guy can't get the donkey to move?? It's not abuse, come on already. That right there is a donkey getting the better part of a man. IT shows how smart the donkey is and how not smart the man is...............I laughed by the end. That donkey owned that man at the end, he never moved. This video also illustrates the use of Flying Helicopter Pilot employing the use of a landing skid to overturn a donkey in motion. Please do not out this description. For I watched the video.
In the past they would have donkey roasts with the excess donkeys. I think the activists are ridiculous in what they expect, like the new story that the BLM sold cattle to Canada for slaughter.
They were not wild horses, they were left over rodeo stock, then the contractor died and never removed them and no one else did either, so they were rounded up and sold to the highest bidder. Can you imagine if the BLM took in all the unwanted horses in the US and called them "wild." Good night.
IF we were smart as a society, we would be feeding our homeless people horse and donkey steak. Hage's Part I (or perhaps Pt II ) references just how and where the current day HUGE amounts of Wild Horses and Donkeys originated...............The BLM had a major hand in this! They had to justify themselves somehow. The timeline was the early 1970s.
No, He (Hage) was very clear on the timeline and the location he was referencing in regards to the ranch and BLM in regards to the BLM fining the ranch for range horses. Twas economically cheaper to leave the broodmares on the open range that BLM was fining em for than to pay the fines. I remember this part specifically. Because, I came to the conclusion, The BLM knew EXACTLY what They (BLM) were doing in manipulating the wild horse herds in the early 1970s. Remember, The BLM was Villain responsible for outlawing 'mustanging'. Which was rounding up wild mustangs, taming, breaking and generally domesticating wild mustangs for Human Use. This is all DOCUMENTED History, Smiley.
Remember Gov't Agencies are notorious for creating a problem to justify their own existence................................ | |
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Googly Goo
Posts: 7053
| foundation horse - 2014-04-22 3:13 PM..... . The Bundy's OWN The Water Rights in that area!
Water rights vary but in many cases, it does not mean you own the water source. It simply means you have the right to use so much of the water for a particular purpose. Since the Bundy's don't seem to have any documentation to those rights, we have no idea what the truth is. | |
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Grammar Expert
| foundation horse - 2014-04-22 2:27 PM smiley - 2014-04-22 3:17 PM foundation horse - 2014-04-22 2:13 PM smiley - 2014-04-22 2:55 PM jbhoot - 2014-04-22 11:35 AM foundation horse - 2014-04-22 10:14 AM smiley - 2014-04-21 11:19 PM foundation horse - 2014-04-21 2:25 PM Still viewing the Part II, but an interesting point is "The Environmentalist(s) are pawns". I agree, that was a good point. The water rights are what is bugging me at the moment, who the hell is United Water and why would we sell water rights to non-Americans.
I still think Bundy is wrong, but clearly there is a history here that is hard to comprehend unless you really dig. Follow the money! There is literally millions of dollars at stake involved with these water rights. FH take a google sat. fly over of Bundy's deeded 150 acres. It is all irrigated he raises melons and hay on it. He has about two miles of river frontage. Hmmmm 150 acres of deeded land with river frontage just off a major interchange and just north of lake mead. Ya think it might have value to a developer. Plus his water rights. As you say follow the money!!!!! Really? This remains to be seen. Remember how important (I.E. Valuable ) Water Rights are in the arid desert of Nevada. Now here is an analogy: 'I' "own" a section (640 acres ) of pastureland. I do not "own" the mineral rights to said land. And Oil is discovered under that land.............The mineral rights owners can sell those minerals from under that land, thereby in effect, controlling or 'owning' that land. The same concept applies to Water Rights and The Bundy Family owns the water rights controlling the land in question. Remember per the Hage Case, if One owns the Water Rights controlling a piece of rangeland, then One does NOT require a Grazing Permit in order to use said range. Or have you watched Pt. II of Hage's Interview yet. And The Federal Court of Claims (CFC ) agrees with Hage. The Bundy's OWN The Water Rights in that area! Well, they CLAIM to own the water rights, that remains to be seen, but I did watch the Hage interviews and I thought they were interesting, well done and very informative and I bought his first edition of his book online as well. Looking forward to reading it. Having said all that, he's not Bundy and Bundy is not him. NO ONE at this point is trying to take Bundy's land, nor was that even a consideration toward his deeded land by anyone's estimation. Now, if they end up taking it in the future, I would have a hard time feeling sorry for Bundy, who has been illegally grazing for close to 25 years. He racked up those bills, no one did it for him, and I would venture to say that stopping the BLM from doing their court ordered duty, is racking up even more debt for Bundy. That is not a conspiracy, that is simply a man fighting a battle that he's going to lose. IMO of course. I agree about the claim of owning the water rights. Let us say he does for the sake of argument. Then with that said Bundy controls the range land that this water flows on.....................This is in line with that convoluted named Western Water Doctrine that I cannot for the life of me remember its correct name! heheheehhhee I may be barking up the wrong the tree here, I do not know. But I do know this for certain! The BLM's response was heavy handed and over the top! A simple lien on the sale of the disputed cattle would have sufficed. And again follow the money in this little deally whopper. Just WHO stands to gain the MOST with the control of said Range? Again, this is bigger than a simple extended trespassing charge. The Culture of The BLM has been documented for decades. Also Smiley, do You agree with Colorado's Claim of Rainfall Runoff on Private Citizen's Structures and that said Private Citizen's do not own said Rainfall Runoff? This issue falls under The Water Rights Question as well.
I think that water runoff (rain) is open to all and anything less than that is stupid. I think it's stupid I can' t "make a pond" on my own land. I think the govt., needs a real wake up call and I would agree that hte BLM has had some bad press and done some stupid things - and now O has put in a rock hard liberal in charge of the agency...............that's who "runs" the BLM for lack of a better term - the president. I got a book on the history of hte BLM and it' s quite the soap opera.
Edited by smiley 2014-04-22 3:53 PM
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Grammar Expert
| musikmaker - 2014-04-22 2:28 PM smiley - 2014-04-22 2:01 PM foundation horse - 2014-04-22 1:55 PM smiley - 2014-04-22 2:52 PM
Is this the one where the guy can't get the donkey to move?? It's not abuse, come on already. That right there is a donkey getting the better part of a man. IT shows how smart the donkey is and how not smart the man is...............I laughed by the end. That donkey owned that man at the end, he never moved. This video also illustrates the use of Flying Helicopter Pilot employing the use of a landing skid to overturn a donkey in motion. Please do not out this description. For I watched the video.
In the past they would have donkey roasts with the excess donkeys. I think the activists are ridiculous in what they expect, like the new story that the BLM sold cattle to Canada for slaughter.
They were not wild horses, they were left over rodeo stock, then the contractor died and never removed them and no one else did either, so they were rounded up and sold to the highest bidder. Can you imagine if the BLM took in all the unwanted horses in the US and called them "wild." Good night.
IF we were smart as a society, we would be feeding our homeless people horse and donkey steak.
Look...I realize that you're not going to change your mind about how you think the Bundy's are wrong & the gov't can do NO wrong...but, to continue to defend them at this level is just...somehow.
Yep, I dang sure laughed about the middle of the middle of the video when I went from being aghast at the man to realizing that donkey owned his azz.
Show me where I said the govt., can do no wrong or stop putting words in my mouth. I'm WELL aware that everything in life has pros and cons. Well aware. | |
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Semper Fi
Location: North Texas | TXBO - 2014-04-22 3:50 PM
foundation horse - 2014-04-22 3:13 PM..... . The Bundy's OWN The Water Rights in that area!
Water rights vary but in many cases, it does not mean you own the water source. It simply means you have the right to use so much of the water for a particular purpose. Since the Bundy's don't seem to have any documentation to those rights, we have no idea what the truth is.
I can agree with this. There is a major lack of documentation in this scenario.
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Semper Fi
Location: North Texas | smiley - 2014-04-22 3:51 PM
foundation horse - 2014-04-22 2:27 PM smiley - 2014-04-22 3:17 PM foundation horse - 2014-04-22 2:13 PM smiley - 2014-04-22 2:55 PM jbhoot - 2014-04-22 11:35 AM foundation horse - 2014-04-22 10:14 AM smiley - 2014-04-21 11:19 PM foundation horse - 2014-04-21 2:25 PM Still viewing the Part II, but an interesting point is "The Environmentalist(s) are pawns". I agree, that was a good point. The water rights are what is bugging me at the moment, who the hell is United Water and why would we sell water rights to non-Americans.
I still think Bundy is wrong, but clearly there is a history here that is hard to comprehend unless you really dig. Follow the money! There is literally millions of dollars at stake involved with these water rights. FH take a google sat. fly over of Bundy's deeded 150 acres. It is all irrigated he raises melons and hay on it. He has about two miles of river frontage. Hmmmm 150 acres of deeded land with river frontage just off a major interchange and just north of lake mead. Ya think it might have value to a developer. Plus his water rights. As you say follow the money!!!!! Really? This remains to be seen. Remember how important (I.E. Valuable ) Water Rights are in the arid desert of Nevada. Now here is an analogy: 'I' "own" a section (640 acres ) of pastureland. I do not "own" the mineral rights to said land. And Oil is discovered under that land.............The mineral rights owners can sell those minerals from under that land, thereby in effect, controlling or 'owning' that land. The same concept applies to Water Rights and The Bundy Family owns the water rights controlling the land in question. Remember per the Hage Case, if One owns the Water Rights controlling a piece of rangeland, then One does NOT require a Grazing Permit in order to use said range. Or have you watched Pt. II of Hage's Interview yet. And The Federal Court of Claims (CFC ) agrees with Hage. The Bundy's OWN The Water Rights in that area! Well, they CLAIM to own the water rights, that remains to be seen, but I did watch the Hage interviews and I thought they were interesting, well done and very informative and I bought his first edition of his book online as well. Looking forward to reading it. Having said all that, he's not Bundy and Bundy is not him. NO ONE at this point is trying to take Bundy's land, nor was that even a consideration toward his deeded land by anyone's estimation. Now, if they end up taking it in the future, I would have a hard time feeling sorry for Bundy, who has been illegally grazing for close to 25 years. He racked up those bills, no one did it for him, and I would venture to say that stopping the BLM from doing their court ordered duty, is racking up even more debt for Bundy. That is not a conspiracy, that is simply a man fighting a battle that he's going to lose. IMO of course. I agree about the claim of owning the water rights. Let us say he does for the sake of argument. Then with that said Bundy controls the range land that this water flows on.....................This is in line with that convoluted named Western Water Doctrine that I cannot for the life of me remember its correct name! heheheehhhee I may be barking up the wrong the tree here, I do not know. But I do know this for certain! The BLM's response was heavy handed and over the top! A simple lien on the sale of the disputed cattle would have sufficed. And again follow the money in this little deally whopper. Just WHO stands to gain the MOST with the control of said Range? Again, this is bigger than a simple extended trespassing charge. The Culture of The BLM has been documented for decades. Also Smiley, do You agree with Colorado's Claim of Rainfall Runoff on Private Citizen's Structures and that said Private Citizen's do not own said Rainfall Runoff? This issue falls under The Water Rights Question as well. I think that water runoff (rain ) is open to all and anything less than that is stupid. I think it's stupid I can' t "make a pond" on my own land. I think the govt., needs a real wake up call and I would agree that hte BLM has had some bad press and done some stupid things - and now O has put in a rock hard liberal in charge of the agency...............that's who "runs" the BLM for lack of a better term - the president. I got a book on the history of hte BLM and it' s quite the soap opera.
So would you disagree that the BLM just might have created the Wild Horse Problem in order to justify their own existence? | |
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Grammar Expert
| foundation horse - 2014-04-22 2:36 PM smiley - 2014-04-22 2:59 PM jbhoot - 2014-04-22 12:44 PM foundation horse - 2014-04-22 12:55 PM jbhoot - 2014-04-22 12:35 PM foundation horse - 2014-04-22 10:14 AM smiley - 2014-04-21 11:19 PM foundation horse - 2014-04-21 2:25 PM Still viewing the Part II, but an interesting point is "The Environmentalist(s) are pawns".
I agree, that was a good point. The water rights are what is bugging me at the moment, who the hell is United Water and why would we sell water rights to non-Americans.
I still think Bundy is wrong, but clearly there is a history here that is hard to comprehend unless you really dig.
Follow the money! There is literally millions of dollars at stake involved with these water rights. FH take a google sat. fly over of Bundy's deeded 150 acres. It is all irrigated he raises melons and hay on it. He has about two miles of river frontage. Hmmmm 150 acres of deeded land with river frontage just off a major interchange and just north of lake mead. Ya think it might have value to a developer. Plus his water rights. As you say follow the money!!!!! It IS conceivable that the BLM would attempt via The IRS to TAKE that 150 Deeded Acres in lieu of fines................................... They don't need the IRS. The judge already gave a blanket judgment to the BLM. Right now he has granted them the right to remove and impound the cattle. But all they have to do is go in front of the judge to get the right to go after the deeded land. I have wondered from the beginning why the BLM waited so long to go after Bundy. I think it was all about running up the bill so they could justify taking the whole thing. If this was only about the cattle the BLM could have hired 12 wranglers on horse back and taken the cattle off at a couple truck loads at a time and this would have never made the news. They have had more than enough time to do so.
They waited so long because it was in court and they had already had such bad press on Hage and the other ranchers. See how they are ****ed if they do and ****ed if they don't? You're seeing black helicopters.
12 wranglers and a few head at a time...............LOL - yeah, the BLM has the time and energy to do it that way. Come on, that is not realistic and it was the Bundy's that called for "people to show up in large numbers" - the BLM would be stupid to not show in numbers as well.
Reference:
Amendment IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
I did not say the bad press wasn't warranted. But like this case, they are taking alllllllllllllll this flack and now it's coming to light that Bundy MIGHT just be full of bile.
I would not refer to "facts" when some of it is not even close to facts, like the newest "wild horse" BS about Canada and slaughter. People run with a half-azzed story and get FB all worked up and it turns out to be BS. That's all I'm saying.
Again, this book on the history of hte BLM - a Book they would NOT allow to be published today I can say with certainty - talks about the conservatives being in charge of vs. the liberals. | |
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I'll Be Your Huckleberry
Posts: 1488
Location: Arizona |
I just wanted to add my two cents about the BLM being abusive to the wild burros and mustangs. I actually own a BLM mustang, my husband was there when they loaded him up in the truck. These horses were beat the He%* up some with serious wounds and they were sent with the trainers anyway. They used cattle prods, and eared them down to get them in the chutes. (Now I understand these are wild horses and I'm not a weenie as far as "abusive" training goes just an FYI) However, my gelding STILL has issues with his left ear from these incidents. Also, they had so many horses crammed into such small spaces they were constantly kicking, biting, etc. My gelding was skin and bones and clearly wasn't getting enough feed against all the other geldings/studs he was jammed in there with. I've also seen videos of the roundups where their hooves have actually been worn to nubs and had to be euthanized from running from the choppers so long.
I don't know what the solution is to the overpopulation of mustangs and burros. I can just say I'd rather they be humanely euthanized than endure some of the things they have to. I am so grateful to have my boy, best horse I could ever ask for. | |
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Semper Fi
Location: North Texas | smiley - 2014-04-22 3:59 PM
foundation horse - 2014-04-22 2:36 PM smiley - 2014-04-22 2:59 PM jbhoot - 2014-04-22 12:44 PM foundation horse - 2014-04-22 12:55 PM jbhoot - 2014-04-22 12:35 PM foundation horse - 2014-04-22 10:14 AM smiley - 2014-04-21 11:19 PM foundation horse - 2014-04-21 2:25 PM Still viewing the Part II, but an interesting point is "The Environmentalist(s) are pawns".
I agree, that was a good point. The water rights are what is bugging me at the moment, who the hell is United Water and why would we sell water rights to non-Americans.
I still think Bundy is wrong, but clearly there is a history here that is hard to comprehend unless you really dig.
Follow the money! There is literally millions of dollars at stake involved with these water rights. FH take a google sat. fly over of Bundy's deeded 150 acres. It is all irrigated he raises melons and hay on it. He has about two miles of river frontage. Hmmmm 150 acres of deeded land with river frontage just off a major interchange and just north of lake mead. Ya think it might have value to a developer. Plus his water rights. As you say follow the money!!!!! It IS conceivable that the BLM would attempt via The IRS to TAKE that 150 Deeded Acres in lieu of fines................................... They don't need the IRS. The judge already gave a blanket judgment to the BLM. Right now he has granted them the right to remove and impound the cattle. But all they have to do is go in front of the judge to get the right to go after the deeded land. I have wondered from the beginning why the BLM waited so long to go after Bundy. I think it was all about running up the bill so they could justify taking the whole thing. If this was only about the cattle the BLM could have hired 12 wranglers on horse back and taken the cattle off at a couple truck loads at a time and this would have never made the news. They have had more than enough time to do so.
They waited so long because it was in court and they had already had such bad press on Hage and the other ranchers. See how they are ****ed if they do and ****ed if they don't? You're seeing black helicopters.
12 wranglers and a few head at a time...............LOL - yeah, the BLM has the time and energy to do it that way. Come on, that is not realistic and it was the Bundy's that called for "people to show up in large numbers" - the BLM would be stupid to not show in numbers as well.
Reference:
Amendment IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
I would not refer to "facts" when some of it is not even close to facts, like the newest "wild horse" BS about Canada and slaughter. People run with a half-azzed story and get FB all worked up and it turns out to be BS. That's all I'm saying.
Again, this book on the history of hte BLM - a Book they would NOT allow to be published today I can say with certainty - talks about the conservatives being in charge of vs. the liberals.
Since all of this is documented in Court Records in regards to The Hage Family and The CFC found The Federal Government to be in violation of The Fourth Amendment, what would these incidents and events be called then? Fairy Tales? Inaccurate Memories? Or just perhaps................Historical FACTS maybe? | |
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Grammar Expert
| foundation horse - 2014-04-22 2:44 PM smiley - 2014-04-22 3:19 PM foundation horse - 2014-04-22 2:05 PM smiley - 2014-04-22 3:01 PM foundation horse - 2014-04-22 1:55 PM smiley - 2014-04-22 2:52 PM
Is this the one where the guy can't get the donkey to move?? It's not abuse, come on already. That right there is a donkey getting the better part of a man. IT shows how smart the donkey is and how not smart the man is...............I laughed by the end. That donkey owned that man at the end, he never moved. This video also illustrates the use of Flying Helicopter Pilot employing the use of a landing skid to overturn a donkey in motion. Please do not out this description. For I watched the video.
In the past they would have donkey roasts with the excess donkeys. I think the activists are ridiculous in what they expect, like the new story that the BLM sold cattle to Canada for slaughter.
They were not wild horses, they were left over rodeo stock, then the contractor died and never removed them and no one else did either, so they were rounded up and sold to the highest bidder. Can you imagine if the BLM took in all the unwanted horses in the US and called them "wild." Good night.
IF we were smart as a society, we would be feeding our homeless people horse and donkey steak. Hage's Part I (or perhaps Pt II ) references just how and where the current day HUGE amounts of Wild Horses and Donkeys originated...............The BLM had a major hand in this! They had to justify themselves somehow. The timeline was the early 1970s. No, He (Hage ) was very clear on the timeline and the location he was referencing in regards to the ranch and BLM in regards to the BLM fining the ranch for range horses. Twas economically cheaper to leave the broodmares on the open range that BLM was fining em for than to pay the fines. I remember this part specifically. Because, I came to the conclusion, The BLM knew EXACTLY what They (BLM ) were doing in manipulating the wild horse herds in the early 1970s. Remember, The BLM was Villain responsible for outlawing 'mustanging'. Which was rounding up wild mustangs, taming, breaking and generally domesticating wild mustangs for Human Use. This is all DOCUMENTED History, Smiley. Remember Gov't Agencies are notorious for creating a problem to justify their own existence................................
Possibly, but I also think you give way too much "prior mind wrangling" to the BLM. Who was in charge then? A liberal or a conservative??
There are people within the BLM who don't even agree with everything they do. It's a political game and machine, no doubt. But they also have a job to do and it was NEPA (again with the NEPA) that caused them to do much of what followed. I'm not an expert on the wild horses, but I fail to see how Hage's timeline of "conspiracy" is provable. Facts are just like everything else, they mean different things to different people.
Your idea of a conspiracy and mine are different, but we might both be working with the same "facts" as evidenced by this whole Bundy ordeal. | |
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Grammar Expert
| foundation horse - 2014-04-22 3:03 PM smiley - 2014-04-22 3:59 PM foundation horse - 2014-04-22 2:36 PM smiley - 2014-04-22 2:59 PM jbhoot - 2014-04-22 12:44 PM foundation horse - 2014-04-22 12:55 PM jbhoot - 2014-04-22 12:35 PM foundation horse - 2014-04-22 10:14 AM smiley - 2014-04-21 11:19 PM foundation horse - 2014-04-21 2:25 PM Still viewing the Part II, but an interesting point is "The Environmentalist(s) are pawns".
I agree, that was a good point. The water rights are what is bugging me at the moment, who the hell is United Water and why would we sell water rights to non-Americans.
I still think Bundy is wrong, but clearly there is a history here that is hard to comprehend unless you really dig.
Follow the money! There is literally millions of dollars at stake involved with these water rights. FH take a google sat. fly over of Bundy's deeded 150 acres. It is all irrigated he raises melons and hay on it. He has about two miles of river frontage. Hmmmm 150 acres of deeded land with river frontage just off a major interchange and just north of lake mead. Ya think it might have value to a developer. Plus his water rights. As you say follow the money!!!!! It IS conceivable that the BLM would attempt via The IRS to TAKE that 150 Deeded Acres in lieu of fines................................... They don't need the IRS. The judge already gave a blanket judgment to the BLM. Right now he has granted them the right to remove and impound the cattle. But all they have to do is go in front of the judge to get the right to go after the deeded land. I have wondered from the beginning why the BLM waited so long to go after Bundy. I think it was all about running up the bill so they could justify taking the whole thing. If this was only about the cattle the BLM could have hired 12 wranglers on horse back and taken the cattle off at a couple truck loads at a time and this would have never made the news. They have had more than enough time to do so.
They waited so long because it was in court and they had already had such bad press on Hage and the other ranchers. See how they are ****ed if they do and ****ed if they don't? You're seeing black helicopters.
12 wranglers and a few head at a time...............LOL - yeah, the BLM has the time and energy to do it that way. Come on, that is not realistic and it was the Bundy's that called for "people to show up in large numbers" - the BLM would be stupid to not show in numbers as well.
Reference:
Amendment IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
I would not refer to "facts" when some of it is not even close to facts, like the newest "wild horse" BS about Canada and slaughter. People run with a half-azzed story and get FB all worked up and it turns out to be BS. That's all I'm saying.
Again, this book on the history of hte BLM - a Book they would NOT allow to be published today I can say with certainty - talks about the conservatives being in charge of vs. the liberals. Since all of this is documented in Court Records in regards to The Hage Family and The CFC found The Federal Government to be in violation of The Fourth Amendment, what would these incidents and events be called then? Fairy Tales? Inaccurate Memories? Or just perhaps................Historical FACTS maybe?
LOL - this is funny. Do you know how many people who have COURT RECORDS saying they are guilty have been set free by the freedom folks who fight old cases to prove wrongful convictions?
So wht you are saying is that hte "facts" in the MANY court cases that the Hages lost, weren't facts at all, but now that they won - now they are "facts."
You see how that works - when it's in the favor you want or belieev in, then they are "facts" but when it's not in your favor, then they arne't facts.
Fact is verb for "who you talking to at the time"?
I'm not saying that that stuff didn't happen, I wasn't there, I haven't read hte court docs, I'm pointing out that screaming "facts" at me when I've been aruging that bundy is con artist from the start and now being dismissive because I don't jump on the "fact" wagon is hyocritical. We can literally read hte same "facts" and come away with much different opinions. I'm talking bigger picture, you want me to back track to 1970 and pick out specifics............
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| MsDuchessGoTe - 2014-04-22 4:00 PM
I just wanted to add my two cents about the BLM being abusive to the wild burros and mustangs. I actually own a BLM mustang, my husband was there when they loaded him up in the truck. These horses were beat the He%* up some with serious wounds and they were sent with the trainers anyway. They used cattle prods, and eared them down to get them in the chutes. (Now I understand these are wild horses and I'm not a weenie as far as "abusive" training goes just an FYI ) However, my gelding STILL has issues with his left ear from these incidents. Also, they had so many horses crammed into such small spaces they were constantly kicking, biting, etc. My gelding was skin and bones and clearly wasn't getting enough feed against all the other geldings/studs he was jammed in there with. I've also seen videos of the roundups where their hooves have actually been worn to nubs and had to be euthanized from running from the choppers so long.
I don't know what the solution is to the overpopulation of mustangs and burros. I can just say I'd rather they be humanely euthanized than endure some of the things they have to. I am so grateful to have my boy, best horse I could ever ask for.
Possible solutions to the wild horse populations-
1) let the Native Americans go back to rounding them up, branding them and selling them for slaughter. They typically did 200-300 per round up and didnt cost us tax payers anything for round up or transportation and they managed the herd numbers and made decent money doing it...better yet, open it up to anyone eager enough to round them.
2) do an open hunt season and manage them like the antelope, deer or elk. Horse meat is consumable and I would imagine most people would be 100% fine consuming it if it weren't for the mantra connected to eating horse meat.
3) round them and the illegal Mexicans up and ship them all back to Mexico. Maybe we will get a lower combined shipping rate and it will fix both problems. | |
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Semper Fi
Location: North Texas | smiley - 2014-04-22 4:04 PM
foundation horse - 2014-04-22 2:44 PM smiley - 2014-04-22 3:19 PM foundation horse - 2014-04-22 2:05 PM smiley - 2014-04-22 3:01 PM foundation horse - 2014-04-22 1:55 PM smiley - 2014-04-22 2:52 PM
Is this the one where the guy can't get the donkey to move?? It's not abuse, come on already. That right there is a donkey getting the better part of a man. IT shows how smart the donkey is and how not smart the man is...............I laughed by the end. That donkey owned that man at the end, he never moved. This video also illustrates the use of Flying Helicopter Pilot employing the use of a landing skid to overturn a donkey in motion. Please do not out this description. For I watched the video.
In the past they would have donkey roasts with the excess donkeys. I think the activists are ridiculous in what they expect, like the new story that the BLM sold cattle to Canada for slaughter.
They were not wild horses, they were left over rodeo stock, then the contractor died and never removed them and no one else did either, so they were rounded up and sold to the highest bidder. Can you imagine if the BLM took in all the unwanted horses in the US and called them "wild." Good night.
IF we were smart as a society, we would be feeding our homeless people horse and donkey steak. Hage's Part I (or perhaps Pt II ) references just how and where the current day HUGE amounts of Wild Horses and Donkeys originated...............The BLM had a major hand in this! They had to justify themselves somehow. The timeline was the early 1970s. No, He (Hage ) was very clear on the timeline and the location he was referencing in regards to the ranch and BLM in regards to the BLM fining the ranch for range horses. Twas economically cheaper to leave the broodmares on the open range that BLM was fining em for than to pay the fines. I remember this part specifically. Because, I came to the conclusion, The BLM knew EXACTLY what They (BLM ) were doing in manipulating the wild horse herds in the early 1970s. Remember, The BLM was Villain responsible for outlawing 'mustanging'. Which was rounding up wild mustangs, taming, breaking and generally domesticating wild mustangs for Human Use. This is all DOCUMENTED History, Smiley. Remember Gov't Agencies are notorious for creating a problem to justify their own existence................................
There are people within the BLM who don't even agree with everything they do. It's a political game and machine, no doubt. But they also have a job to do and it was NEPA (again with the NEPA) that caused them to do much of what followed. I'm not an expert on the wild horses, but I fail to see how Hage's timeline of "conspiracy" is provable. Facts are just like everything else, they mean different things to different people.
Your idea of a conspiracy and mine are different, but we might both be working with the same "facts" as evidenced by this whole Bundy ordeal.
I'll be honest. I have a MAJOR MAJOR Distrust of The Federal Government. So, my view can be construed as most likely slanted from that direction.
My Distrust breeds contempt and dislike, and stems from The Fed's DISREGARD for The Constitution.
Many call me a Conspiracy Theorist. However, when Theories are proven, then One cannot be labeled a Conspiracy Theorist.
And I still believe Harry Reid is in this current Nevada Deal up to His Eyeballs.
His Behavioral History indicates I am correct. | |
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Googly Goo
Posts: 7053
| foundation horse - 2014-04-22 3:54 PM TXBO - 2014-04-22 3:50 PM foundation horse - 2014-04-22 3:13 PM..... . The Bundy's OWN The Water Rights in that area! Water rights vary but in many cases, it does not mean you own the water source. It simply means you have the right to use so much of the water for a particular purpose. Since the Bundy's don't seem to have any documentation to those rights, we have no idea what the truth is. I can agree with this. There is a major lack of documentation in this scenario.
The investigative report that bs posted suggests that the Bundys only have water rights to their deeded land. | |
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