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| Unfortunately, horrible things like those that happened to the girls Ariel Castro held hostage have always happened. Why? Because God did give "free-will" and all too often innocent people are the victim of the free-will of others. There is unspeakable pain and suffering on this earth, that too is true. I cannot offer an explanation of those things but I do believe that, as scripture tell us, things of this earth regardless of the years they go on are but a nano-second in the fullness of time and eternity. One day all the suffering and tears will be over each of us judged accordingly. The day will come that the meek shall inherit the earth, the last will become first. It will happen. | |
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| barrelracr131 - 2013-12-18 9:42 AM Murphy - 2013-12-18 8:39 AM justcruzin - 2013-12-18 9:32 AM I wonder what the women Ariel Castro held captive raped and tortured for over 10 yrs believe. I see so much suffering, little children, animals...... Prayers going unanswered..... I wonder myself.
Good questions. I think about this all the time. Why do I have a bed to sleep in at night, while there are small children homeless? Or being beaten? Endless questions.
God is supposed to be all powerful, and all good. However, the earth tries to kill us in a myriad of ways.... so both of these cannot be true (in my mind)
The earth has always been destined to be temporary. We are all appointed to "die" an earthly death sooner or later. It's what happens after our bodies are dead that we should concern ourselves with because death WILL come, no one is immuned to that regardless of our stature while on this earth. | |
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 Wide Darn Open
Posts: 2141
| I believe bad things happen in this world because as of now Satan is free to roam the earth. The bible says he's seeking whom he may devour. We were given free will and humans took their eyes off God and were deceived by Satan. We were not promised the earth would be a paradise any longer. The bible tells us there will be struggles here but we are promised a comforter. It is so easy to say there is no God because bad things happen but we are told in scripture they will happen. In my darkest hours His promises have proven true time and time again. | |
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  Desert Diva
Posts: 4946
Location: The birthplace of Honest Abe | Im going to ask OP this, are you sure Christianity is what you are looking for. Before all of you christians jump on me, there are many religions in the world. Maybe you should look into other religions that may fit your ideals better. I am not a christian but I dont push my religion on others. I think if you are lost and floundering and can not find your way, you may not be looking in the right direction.
Edited by jenijill 2013-12-18 8:59 AM
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 Voice of Reason
Location: NOT at Wal Mart | grullagirl - 2013-12-18 6:56 AM I believe bad things happen in this world because as of now Satan is free to roam the earth. The bible says he's seeking whom he may devour. We were given free will and humans took their eyes off God and were deceived by Satan. We were not promised the earth would be a paradise any longer. The bible tells us there will be struggles here but we are promised a comforter. It is so easy to say there is no God because bad things happen but we are told in scripture they will happen. In my darkest hours His promises have proven true time and time again.
My question is why did the prayers of a 10 year old chid go unanswered? Free will? What does free will have to do with unanswered prayers? I understand the free will part, but what happened to "Ask, and it shall be given to you; seek, and you shall find; knock, and it shall be opened to you. "For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it shall be opened." ????
Free will allowed the suffering, why did God not stop it? | |
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 Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | What would we learn if everyone did nothing but good and we all knew nothing but joy? Our time on earth is a spiritual journey made to learn things we need to know so that we can get closer to God. God created a world of balance. There is a counter-point to everything and we have the free will to negotiate our own way through it all. | |
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Wide Darn Open
Posts: 2141
| justcruzin - 2013-12-18 9:07 AM
grullagirl - 2013-12-18 6:56 AM I believe bad things happen in this world because as of now Satan is free to roam the earth. The bible says he's seeking whom he may devour. We were given free will and humans took their eyes off God and were deceived by Satan. We were not promised the earth would be a paradise any longer. The bible tells us there will be struggles here but we are promised a comforter. It is so easy to say there is no God because bad things happen but we are told in scripture they will happen. In my darkest hours His promises have proven true time and time again.
My question is why did the prayers of a 10 year old chid go unanswered? Free will? What does free will have to do with unanswered prayers? I understand the free will part, but what happened to "Ask, and it shall be given to you; seek, and you shall find; knock, and it shall be opened to you. "For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it shall be opened." ????
Free will allowed the suffering, why did God not stop it?
I don't know why God didn't just create earth as a perfect paradise other than if we didn't go through a spiritual journey we would be no different than angels...just created beings that do not have a relationship with Him like his children do. I was just sharing my faith and beliefs and they are what I choose to believe. I have accepted that I am not God and am not all knowing so I choose to have faith in Him and have been given great peace at times so dark I didn't think it was possible. | |
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 Googly Goo
Posts: 7053
| barrelracr131 - 2013-12-18 8:14 AM TXBO - 2013-12-17 5:38 PM Just Plain Lucky - 2013-12-17 5:13 PM TXBO - 2013-12-17 5:55 PM Just Plain Lucky - 2013-12-17 1:45 PM .....There are many things in the Bible that have been proven false by science. ....
What has been proven wrong by science?
For me, science has proven that the Earth is much, much older than the Bible says it to be. It has proven that the animals that walk the Earth now did not just appear, they changed and grew over time. That includes human kind.
Evolution describes the origins of new species
these two ideas are not the same, and evolution is still a widely accepted theory (as is gravity). The disproving of biogenesis has nothing to do with evolution and natural selection.
The law of biogenisis says that life must come from life. Evolution never gets started if it has to pass this generally accepted scientific test. There are many ways that science has disproven evolution; mathematically, law of biogenisis, enertia, genetics..... but I'm not smart enough to explain them. | |
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 Twin Sister to Queen Boobie
Posts: 13315
Location: East Tennessee but who knows?! | Everyone believes in love. PROVE that love exists. You can't. But yet we all still believe in it. Love of a mother for her child, love of a wife for her husband, our love for horses. We still believe those things exist even though we cant feel or see it and we can't prove it. And yet we still believe in love in some form without question. Why can't we do the same with God? | |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | TXBO - 2013-12-18 9:31 AM barrelracr131 - 2013-12-18 8:14 AM TXBO - 2013-12-17 5:38 PM Just Plain Lucky - 2013-12-17 5:13 PM TXBO - 2013-12-17 5:55 PM Just Plain Lucky - 2013-12-17 1:45 PM .....There are many things in the Bible that have been proven false by science. ....
What has been proven wrong by science?
For me, science has proven that the Earth is much, much older than the Bible says it to be. It has proven that the animals that walk the Earth now did not just appear, they changed and grew over time. That includes human kind.
Evolution describes the origins of new species
these two ideas are not the same, and evolution is still a widely accepted theory (as is gravity). The disproving of biogenesis has nothing to do with evolution and natural selection.
I found this on a google search, and it explains the theories well already, so I am copying instead of summarizing it in my own words
1. The so-called "law of biogenesis" came from the refutation of an outdated idea about the origin of life: that outdated idea is called spontaneous generation.
Spontaneous generation held that organisms - even those as complex as flies, rats, and frogs - could just spontaneously arise in a few days or weeks, and that complex life arising goes on all the time, all around us, under all kinds of conditions, throughout history. Several scientists started chipping away at that notion and Loius Pasteur drove the final nail in the coffin of spontaneous generation.
The modern view of the origin of life is abiogenesis, not spontaneous generation. In abiogensis, the first life would have been far far far far far far far far far far simpler than the simplest prokaryote alive today, would have taken possibly tens of millions of years to arise, would have arisen only once, and would have involved conditions unlike those present on today's earth. The experiments that refuted spontaneous generation don't even touch abiogenesis.
So no, the "law of biogenesis" does not refute abiogenesis.
2. It is a misnomer to speak of a scientific law of biogenesis. The closest thing to it is the part of the cell theory which states that all cells arise from preexisting cells. But then that is nothing more than an inductive conclusion: every cell we've even seen arise arose from a preexisting cell, so it is inductively concluded that that applies to all cells. But, there is no logical requirement that it apply to all cells: it's an extrapolation. There are untold numbers of similar inductive conclusions that were later proven false in science. For example, for decades biologists had not found any prokaryote that had a cytoskeleton so it was taught that no prokaryotes have a cytoskeleon: but then we found some prokaryotes that do have a cytoskeleton.
So no, one cannot prove the existence of a creator with the so-called "law of biogenesis."
PS: Besides, the Creator would be astronomically greater than the first living organism, right? So it would be more logical to accept that life just existed without a cause than it would be to accept that a Creator just existed without a cause. Calling upon a Creator does not solve anything: it just makes things worse. It replaces one mystery with an every bigger one. ETA I don't neccessarily agree with the PS, but I see the author's point they are making
Edited by barrelracr131 2013-12-18 9:48 AM
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| jenijill - 2013-12-18 9:58 AM Im going to ask OP this, are you sure Christianity is what you are looking for. Before all of you christians jump on me, there are many religions in the world. Maybe you should look into other religions that may fit your ideals better. I am not a christian but I dont push my religion on others. I think if you are lost and floundering and can not find your way, you may not be looking in the right direction.
A custom fit religion that adheres to one's personal desires? Rather than us giving into His will for us and accepting His gift to us? Exactly what Satan loves to hear. Getting us to even think along those lines allows Satan to get a foothold on us, he just wants an opening and he'll do the rest, if we let him. A discussion such as we are having in this forum can work for God or for Satan, it's according one's own personal conviction and strength. As we try so hard to have things our way and turn our backs on the gifts God has given (the scriptures to guide us, his forgiveness through Christ) as Satan convinces us that there are other better ways we only end up suffering the consequences while throwing away the most amazing gifts...abundant life, eternal life, forgiveness of our wrongs, peace that can only come through Him. Makes me sad to think that this happens to people. | |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 823
Location: East Texas | Pretty good answer to this question by Voddie Bauchman. He address many of the things touched on in this thread.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZNXMJGYNG8
Edited by CrossDRanch 2013-12-18 10:08 AM
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| grullagirl - 2013-12-18 9:56 AM I believe bad things happen in this world because as of now Satan is free to roam the earth. The bible says he's seeking whom he may devour. We were given free will and humans took their eyes off God and were deceived by Satan. We were not promised the earth would be a paradise any longer. The bible tells us there will be struggles here but we are promised a comforter. It is so easy to say there is no God because bad things happen but we are told in scripture they will happen. In my darkest hours His promises have proven true time and time again. Very well said! Do not think for one minute that Satan is not fighting to win us over for himself. He is constantly waiting for us to give him an opening, he's always waiting to pounce. Do not give him the opportunity; he does not offer anything that is worth having.
Edited by runs4fun 2013-12-18 9:59 AM
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Googly Goo
Posts: 7053
| barrelracr131 - 2013-12-18 9:41 AM TXBO - 2013-12-18 9:31 AM barrelracr131 - 2013-12-18 8:14 AM TXBO - 2013-12-17 5:38 PM Just Plain Lucky - 2013-12-17 5:13 PM TXBO - 2013-12-17 5:55 PM Just Plain Lucky - 2013-12-17 1:45 PM .....There are many things in the Bible that have been proven false by science. ....
What has been proven wrong by science?
For me, science has proven that the Earth is much, much older than the Bible says it to be. It has proven that the animals that walk the Earth now did not just appear, they changed and grew over time. That includes human kind.
Evolution describes the origins of new species
these two ideas are not the same, and evolution is still a widely accepted theory (as is gravity). The disproving of biogenesis has nothing to do with evolution and natural selection.
I found this on a google search, and it explains the theories well already, so I am copying instead of summarizing it in my own words
1. The so-called "law of biogenesis" came from the refutation of an outdated idea about the origin of life: that outdated idea is called spontaneous generation.
Spontaneous generation held that organisms - even those as complex as flies, rats, and frogs - could just spontaneously arise in a few days or weeks, and that complex life arising goes on all the time, all around us, under all kinds of conditions, throughout history. Several scientists started chipping away at that notion and Loius Pasteur drove the final nail in the coffin of spontaneous generation.
The modern view of the origin of life is abiogenesis, not spontaneous generation. In abiogensis, the first life would have been far far far far far far far far far far simpler than the simplest prokaryote alive today, would have taken possibly tens of millions of years to arise, would have arisen only once, and would have involved conditions unlike those present on today's earth. The experiments that refuted spontaneous generation don't even touch abiogenesis.
So no, the "law of biogenesis" does not refute abiogenesis.
2. It is a misnomer to speak of a scientific law of biogenesis. The closest thing to it is the part of the cell theory which states that all cells arise from preexisting cells. But then that is nothing more than an inductive conclusion: every cell we've even seen arise arose from a preexisting cell, so it is inductively concluded that that applies to all cells. But, there is no logical requirement that it apply to all cells: it's an extrapolation. There are untold numbers of similar inductive conclusions that were later proven false in science. For example, for decades biologists had not found any prokaryote that had a cytoskeleton so it was taught that no prokaryotes have a cytoskeleon: but then we found some prokaryotes that do have a cytoskeleton.
So no, one cannot prove the existence of a creator with the so-called "law of biogenesis."
PS: Besides, the Creator would be astronomically greater than the first living organism, right? So it would be more logical to accept that life just existed without a cause than it would be to accept that a Creator just existed without a cause. Calling upon a Creator does not solve anything: it just makes things worse. It replaces one mystery with an every bigger one. ETA I don't neccessarily agree with the PS, but I see the author's point they are making
No, I'm not confused. The page you have found is someone that disputes Louis Pasteur's "law of biogenisis" as discrediting spontaneous generation. Pasteur's law of biogenisis concluded that life must come from life. He did a series of experiments to prove his theory that are generally accepted as science. | |
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Desert Diva
Posts: 4946
Location: The birthplace of Honest Abe | runs4fun - 2013-12-18 9:50 AM jenijill - 2013-12-18 9:58 AM Im going to ask OP this, are you sure Christianity is what you are looking for. Before all of you christians jump on me, there are many religions in the world. Maybe you should look into other religions that may fit your ideals better. I am not a christian but I dont push my religion on others. I think if you are lost and floundering and can not find your way, you may not be looking in the right direction. A custom fit religion that adheres to one's personal desires? Rather than us giving into His will for us and accepting His gift to us? Exactly what Satan loves to hear. Getting us to even think along those lines allows Satan to get a foothold on us, he just wants an opening and he'll do the rest, if we let him. A discussion such as we are having in this forum can work for God or for Satan, it's according one's own personal conviction and strength. As we try so hard to have things our way and turn our backs on the gifts God has given (the scriptures to guide us, his forgiveness through Christ) as Satan convinces us that there are other better ways we only end up suffering the consequences while throwing away the most amazing gifts...abundant life, eternal life, forgiveness of our wrongs, peace that can only come through Him. Makes me sad to think that this happens to people.
Since Satan is a christian belief, I do not believe in him. But I did not say a custom fit religion. You cant tell me that millions of people that do not follow christianity are doomed. If you follow your religion then I believe you will meet the rewards from that religion. you are strong in your conviction which is good, I am not a follower of Jesus, but I am strong in my beliefs. | |
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Googly Goo
Posts: 7053
| jenijill - 2013-12-18 10:20 AM runs4fun - 2013-12-18 9:50 AM jenijill - 2013-12-18 9:58 AM Im going to ask OP this, are you sure Christianity is what you are looking for. Before all of you christians jump on me, there are many religions in the world. Maybe you should look into other religions that may fit your ideals better. I am not a christian but I dont push my religion on others. I think if you are lost and floundering and can not find your way, you may not be looking in the right direction. A custom fit religion that adheres to one's personal desires? Rather than us giving into His will for us and accepting His gift to us? Exactly what Satan loves to hear. Getting us to even think along those lines allows Satan to get a foothold on us, he just wants an opening and he'll do the rest, if we let him. A discussion such as we are having in this forum can work for God or for Satan, it's according one's own personal conviction and strength. As we try so hard to have things our way and turn our backs on the gifts God has given (the scriptures to guide us, his forgiveness through Christ) as Satan convinces us that there are other better ways we only end up suffering the consequences while throwing away the most amazing gifts...abundant life, eternal life, forgiveness of our wrongs, peace that can only come through Him. Makes me sad to think that this happens to people.
It's not logical to think that every religion is right. There can only be one truth. | |
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| jenijill - 2013-12-18 11:20 AM runs4fun - 2013-12-18 9:50 AM jenijill - 2013-12-18 9:58 AM Im going to ask OP this, are you sure Christianity is what you are looking for. Before all of you christians jump on me, there are many religions in the world. Maybe you should look into other religions that may fit your ideals better. I am not a christian but I dont push my religion on others. I think if you are lost and floundering and can not find your way, you may not be looking in the right direction. A custom fit religion that adheres to one's personal desires? Rather than us giving into His will for us and accepting His gift to us? Exactly what Satan loves to hear. Getting us to even think along those lines allows Satan to get a foothold on us, he just wants an opening and he'll do the rest, if we let him. A discussion such as we are having in this forum can work for God or for Satan, it's according one's own personal conviction and strength. As we try so hard to have things our way and turn our backs on the gifts God has given (the scriptures to guide us, his forgiveness through Christ) as Satan convinces us that there are other better ways we only end up suffering the consequences while throwing away the most amazing gifts...abundant life, eternal life, forgiveness of our wrongs, peace that can only come through Him. Makes me sad to think that this happens to people.
Edited by runs4fun 2013-12-18 10:38 AM
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 Roan Wonder
Location: SW MO | jenijill - 2013-12-18 10:20 AM runs4fun - 2013-12-18 9:50 AM jenijill - 2013-12-18 9:58 AM Im going to ask OP this, are you sure Christianity is what you are looking for. Before all of you christians jump on me, there are many religions in the world. Maybe you should look into other religions that may fit your ideals better. I am not a christian but I dont push my religion on others. I think if you are lost and floundering and can not find your way, you may not be looking in the right direction. A custom fit religion that adheres to one's personal desires? Rather than us giving into His will for us and accepting His gift to us? Exactly what Satan loves to hear. Getting us to even think along those lines allows Satan to get a foothold on us, he just wants an opening and he'll do the rest, if we let him. A discussion such as we are having in this forum can work for God or for Satan, it's according one's own personal conviction and strength. As we try so hard to have things our way and turn our backs on the gifts God has given (the scriptures to guide us, his forgiveness through Christ) as Satan convinces us that there are other better ways we only end up suffering the consequences while throwing away the most amazing gifts...abundant life, eternal life, forgiveness of our wrongs, peace that can only come through Him. Makes me sad to think that this happens to people.
I do believe that millions are doomed because it tells us so in the Bible
in verses like these
Mathew 7:13-14 13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it. Mathew 19:24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
I don't believe you have to go to church or that you have to be the same religion I am to enter into heaven, but I do believe you have to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and love him. That you have to confess your sins and ask him to be your savor & try very hard to be a good person & be kind to everyone.
As some have said " I would rather believe & find out I'm wrong than not believe & find out I'm wrong. | |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | TXBO - 2013-12-18 10:15 AM barrelracr131 - 2013-12-18 9:41 AM TXBO - 2013-12-18 9:31 AM barrelracr131 - 2013-12-18 8:14 AM TXBO - 2013-12-17 5:38 PM Just Plain Lucky - 2013-12-17 5:13 PM TXBO - 2013-12-17 5:55 PM Just Plain Lucky - 2013-12-17 1:45 PM .....There are many things in the Bible that have been proven false by science. ....
What has been proven wrong by science?
For me, science has proven that the Earth is much, much older than the Bible says it to be. It has proven that the animals that walk the Earth now did not just appear, they changed and grew over time. That includes human kind.
Evolution describes the origins of new species
these two ideas are not the same, and evolution is still a widely accepted theory (as is gravity). The disproving of biogenesis has nothing to do with evolution and natural selection.
I found this on a google search, and it explains the theories well already, so I am copying instead of summarizing it in my own words
1. The so-called "law of biogenesis" came from the refutation of an outdated idea about the origin of life: that outdated idea is called spontaneous generation.
Spontaneous generation held that organisms - even those as complex as flies, rats, and frogs - could just spontaneously arise in a few days or weeks, and that complex life arising goes on all the time, all around us, under all kinds of conditions, throughout history. Several scientists started chipping away at that notion and Loius Pasteur drove the final nail in the coffin of spontaneous generation.
The modern view of the origin of life is abiogenesis, not spontaneous generation. In abiogensis, the first life would have been far far far far far far far far far far simpler than the simplest prokaryote alive today, would have taken possibly tens of millions of years to arise, would have arisen only once, and would have involved conditions unlike those present on today's earth. The experiments that refuted spontaneous generation don't even touch abiogenesis.
So no, the "law of biogenesis" does not refute abiogenesis.
2. It is a misnomer to speak of a scientific law of biogenesis. The closest thing to it is the part of the cell theory which states that all cells arise from preexisting cells. But then that is nothing more than an inductive conclusion: every cell we've even seen arise arose from a preexisting cell, so it is inductively concluded that that applies to all cells. But, there is no logical requirement that it apply to all cells: it's an extrapolation. There are untold numbers of similar inductive conclusions that were later proven false in science. For example, for decades biologists had not found any prokaryote that had a cytoskeleton so it was taught that no prokaryotes have a cytoskeleon: but then we found some prokaryotes that do have a cytoskeleton.
So no, one cannot prove the existence of a creator with the so-called "law of biogenesis."
PS: Besides, the Creator would be astronomically greater than the first living organism, right? So it would be more logical to accept that life just existed without a cause than it would be to accept that a Creator just existed without a cause. Calling upon a Creator does not solve anything: it just makes things worse. It replaces one mystery with an every bigger one. ETA I don't neccessarily agree with the PS, but I see the author's point they are making
We are in more agreement than you think. What I am not understanding is how this relates to evolution.
As far as I am concerned, evolution describes the process that occurs after that first life is created. There is plenty of scientific evidence to support evolution, in fact this law which you are describing supports that "life" is continously evolving from what came before.
I don't understand why many Christians religions think evolution is false. The idea of intelligent design certainly would go along with evolution (as as a child in the Catholic Church, we were taught this idea). We were told, as children, that God directed evolution, started the process of life. The story in Genesis was an allegory.
I guess I don't understand why some religions or sects take the Genesis story ONLY in its literal sense. | |
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 Midget Lover
Location: Kentucky | crossspur - 2013-12-18 11:41 AM jenijill - 2013-12-18 10:20 AM runs4fun - 2013-12-18 9:50 AM jenijill - 2013-12-18 9:58 AM Im going to ask OP this, are you sure Christianity is what you are looking for. Before all of you christians jump on me, there are many religions in the world. Maybe you should look into other religions that may fit your ideals better. I am not a christian but I dont push my religion on others. I think if you are lost and floundering and can not find your way, you may not be looking in the right direction. A custom fit religion that adheres to one's personal desires? Rather than us giving into His will for us and accepting His gift to us? Exactly what Satan loves to hear. Getting us to even think along those lines allows Satan to get a foothold on us, he just wants an opening and he'll do the rest, if we let him. A discussion such as we are having in this forum can work for God or for Satan, it's according one's own personal conviction and strength. As we try so hard to have things our way and turn our backs on the gifts God has given (the scriptures to guide us, his forgiveness through Christ) as Satan convinces us that there are other better ways we only end up suffering the consequences while throwing away the most amazing gifts...abundant life, eternal life, forgiveness of our wrongs, peace that can only come through Him. Makes me sad to think that this happens to people.
in verses like these
Mathew 7:13-14
13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
Mathew 19:24
And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
I don't believe you have to go to church or that you have to be the same religion I am to enter into heaven, but I do believe you have to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and love him. That you have to confess your sins and ask him to be your savor & try very hard to be a good person & be kind to everyone.
As some have said " I would rather believe & find out I'm wrong than not believe & find out I'm wrong.
So what about those folks that no nothing of Jesus? They are automatically doomed because they have never heard His teachings? I just don't know what to think about that. | |
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Folks on-line