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Impressive bloodlines...would you EVER buy one of his offspring?...

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barrelracr131
Reg. Aug 2011
Posted 2014-03-31 7:53 AM
Subject: RE: Impressive bloodlines...would you EVER buy one of his offspring?...


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trotncowpony - 2014-03-29 1:26 AM
foundation horse - 2014-03-28 1:56 PM No. I know I am most likely going against the grain on this thread. But Oh Well, That is the Way I roll! hehehhehehe I am not going to propagate a Bloodline that has genetic problems to begin with and then add in the FACT that Impressive's feet were a size O or OO for a 1200 lb animal. Ain't no way no how I will propagating something like that in My Band of Horses or on My Place.
HYPP has been found in several bloodlines and several breeds. It is not exclusive to Impressive. I have 3 roan boys that are all your Impressive bred and they all wear size 1 shoes lol.

" To date, confirmed cases of HYPP have been restricted to descendants of this horse."

From the UC Davis Website.


http://www.vgl.ucdavis.edu/services/hypp.php 
 
Hyperkalemic Periodic Paralysis (HYPP)
Introduction

Hyperkalemic periodic paralysis (HYPP) is an inherited disease of the muscle which is caused by a genetic defect. In the muscle of affected horses, a point mutation exists in the sodium channel gene and is passed on to offspring.

Sodium channels are "pores" in the muscle cell membrane which control contraction of the muscle fibers. When the defective sodium channel gene is present, the channel becomes "leaky" and makes the muscle overly excitable and contract involuntarily. The channel becomes "leaky" when potassium levels fluctuate in the blood. This may occur with fasting followed by consumption of a high potassium feed such as alfalfa. Hyperkalemia, which is an excessive amount of potassium in the blood, causes the muscles in the horse to contract more readily than normal. This makes the horse susceptible to sporadic episodes of muscle tremors or paralysis.

This genetic defect has been identified in descendents of the American Quarter Horse sire, Impressive. The original genetic defect causing HYPP was a natural mutation that occurred as part of the evolutionary process. The majority of such mutations, which are constantly occurring, are not compatible with survival. However, the genetic mutation causing HYPP produced a functional, yet altered, sodium ion channel. This gene mutation is not a product of inbreeding. The gene mutation causing HYPP inadvertently became widespread when breeders sought to produce horses with heavy musculature. To date, confirmed cases of HYPP have been restricted to descendants of this horse.

ORDER TEST PRICE LIST
Allow 2-6 business days for results.

Detailed HYPP Information

Symptoms and Signs of the Disease

Homozygous horses are affected more severely than heterozygous horses. Under ideal management practices, the defective gene does not appear to have adverse effects, but stress and/or increased potassium in the serum can trigger clinical signs of muscle dysfunction. Why some horses manifest severe signs of the disease and other exhibit little or no signs is unknown and currently under investigation. Unfortunately, a horse carrying the defective gene but showing minimal signs has the same chance of passing the gene to future generations as does the affected horse with severe signs.

HYPP is characterized by sporadic attacks of muscle tremors (shaking or trembling), weakness and/or collapse. Attacks can also be accompanied by loud breathing noises resulting from paralysis of the muscles of the upper airway. Occasionally, sudden death can occur following a severe paralytic attack, presumably from heart failure or respiratory muscle paralysis.

Attacks of HYPP can take various forms and commonly have been confused with other conditions. Because of the muscle tremors and weakness, HYPP often resembles exertional rhabdomyolysis ("tying-up" syndrome). "Tying-up" syndrome can be caused by many different circumstances, including exercising a horse beyond the capacity to which it has been trained, as well as nutritional deficiencies and metabolic diseases. A distinguishing feature of HYPP from "tying-up" syndrome is that horses usually appear normal following an attack of HYPP. Horses with "tying-up" syndrome, on the other hand, tend to have a stiff gait and painful, firm muscles of the hind limbs, rump and/or back. "Tying-up" syndrome is also generally associated with some type of exercise. HYPP, by contrast, is not usually associated with exercise, but occurs when horses are at rest, at feeding time, or following a stressful event such as transport, feed changes, or concurrent illness.

Because a horse may be down and reluctant or unable to stand during an HYPP attack, many owners have thought their horses were experiencing colic. HYPP has also been confused with seizures due to the pronounced muscle trembling and collapse. Unlike seizures and other conditions that cause fainting, horses with HYPP are conscious and aware of their surroundings during an attack and do not appear to be in pain. Respiratory conditions and choking have also been confused with HYPP because some horses make loud breathing noises during an attack.

Causes of an Attack

Environmental factors can actually cause an attack of muscle weakness. Owners of HYPP-positive horses should be aware that external stimulus and events could increase the chance of paralysis onset. These factors include dietary changes, fasting, general anesthesia, and concurrent illness and exercise restriction.

Prevention and Control of HYPP Attacks

Dietary management is extremely important in the management of affected horses. Dietary adjustments include (1) avoiding high potassium feeds such as alfalfa hay, brome hay, canola oil, soybean meal or oil, and sugar molasses and beet molasses, and replacing them with timothy or Bermuda grass hay, grains such as oats, corn, wheat and barley, and beet pulp; (2) feeding several times a day; and (3) exercising regularly and/or being allowed frequent access to a large paddock or yard. Due to the high water content of pasture grass, a horse is unlikely to consume large amounts of potassium in a short period of time if kept on pasture. If the horse is experiencing problems on its present diet, it is recommended to feed a diet containing between 0.6% and 1.5% total potassium concentrations.

Several drugs have been used for prevention of clinical episodes of paralysis. Horses have been treated with either acetazolamide (2-4 mg/kg orally, every 8 to 12 hours) or hydrochlorthiazide (0.5-1 mg/kg orally, every 12 hours) with apparent success. These agents exert their effects through different mechanisms; however, both cause increased renal potassium ATPase activity. Acetazolamide has been shown to stabilize blood glucose and potassium by stimulating insulin secretion. Breed registries have restrictions on the use of these drugs during competitions (some require a veterinary certificate).

Inform your veterinarian of the HYPP condition prior to any general anesthesia, as this may precipitate an episode of paralysis. If your horse is receiving medication, maintain him or her on therapy before and after surgery or anesthesia. Use common sense while hauling and be sure to stop and water horses frequently (every two hours).

During a severe attack of HYPP, emergency treatment from a veterinarian is necessary. For long term therapy, many horses can be managed by exercise and diet control alone. Regular exercise and access to a large paddock or pasture is preferred over stall confinement. Maintain a regular feeding schedule, preferably equally spaced, two to three times per day. Avoid rapid changes in feed, such as bringing a horse off pasture grass and immediately switching to alfalfa hay. Most horses improve when the potassium content in the diet is decreased.

Inheritance and Transmission of HYPP

HYPP is inherited as an autosomal dominant trait, which means it can occur in both males and females and only one copy of the gene is required to produce the disease. The trait is inherited from generation to generation with equal frequency; it does not get "diluted" out or skip generations. Breeding an affected heterozygous horse (N/H) to an affected heterozygous horse (N/H) will result in approximately 50% carrying the defective gene (N/H), approximately 25% will be normal (N/N) and approximately 25% will be homozygous carriers (H/H). Breeding an affected heterozygous horse (N/H) to a normal horse (N/N) will result in approximately 50% normal offspring and approximately 50% carrying the defective gene (N/H).

Expected Breeding Outcomes
N/H x N/H have 25% chance of producing normal offspring, 50% chance of producing heterozygous carriers and 25% chance of producing homozygote offspring N/H x N/N have 50% chance of producing normal (NN) offspring and 50% chance of producing carriers (NH).
  N H   N H
N 25% NN 25% NH N 50% NN 50% NH
H 25% NH 25% HH  

Breeding an affected homozygote (H/H) will result in all offspring carrying the defective gene regardless of the status of the other parent.

Myths about HYPP

Some people have felt that the disease can be diluted out and not carried to distant generations. This is false because an affected horse has just as much chance to pass on the trait as the affected parent which passed the gene to him. Some people also believe the horse will "grow out of it." This is not true. For unknown reasons, attacks of HYPP tend to occur most often at the beginning of intense training and fitting for shows (age three to seven years old). It is important to realize that horses with HYPP are affected for life. It is possible that older horses do not experience the same conditioning stresses as young horses or owners have discovered the best management strategies for the older horses with HYPP.

Some people also think that if a horse does not show any signs up to a certain age, it does not carry the trait. Unfortunately, this is not the case. Once again, horses with HYPP are affected for life. There was a stallion and a broodmare with HYPP who did not show signs of the disease until age eight and 15, and both horses only experienced one isolated attack.

Owners and breeders of affected horses should inform prospective buyers of the management constraints these horses have and the potential for future episodes of HYPP.

Which Horses Should Be Tested for HYPP?

As noted above, the DNA based test for HYPP identifies the specific genetic mutation which we now know exists in descendants of "Impressive". We presently do not know whether different genetic mutations in other bloodlines also cause HYPP, and the DNA test will not identify other such mutations. Further scientific research is required as to other bloodlines. We presently recommend that all descendants of "Impressive" be tested for diagnostic, treatment and breeding purposes.

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rachellyn80
Reg. Jan 2004
Posted 2014-03-31 7:59 AM
Subject: RE: Impressive bloodlines...would you EVER buy one of his offspring?...



Jr. Detective


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foundation horse - 2014-03-30 9:50 PM
cheryl makofka - 2014-03-30 9:34 PM
foundation horse - 2014-03-30 9:14 PM
Fairweather - 2014-03-30 8:05 PM  Intelligent horses always get a bad rap. Not everyone can deal with intelligent horses. 



I love them and I just gave away 2 heavily bred Impressive bred horses that I absolutely loved. Give them a job they liked and didn't get bored with and you couldn't find a better working horse. Great work ethic but you had to earn it. 
Frances, intelligence and genetics are two completely different entirely things. I am not doubting that there are intelligent Impressive Bred Horses. I am stating that Impressive Bred Horses are a KNOWN Genetic Risk. Why propagate a KNOWN Genetic Risk?
If the horses are double negative there is no risk, I'm not sure what your point is.
Now bear with me here. W/O Genetic Testing, One does not know if an Impressive bred horse is N/N or N/H. Had Impressive not been propagated, there would be no need of Genetic Testing now would there. HYPP has been specifically traced back to Impressive which is Genetic Defect. Why propagate a Known Genetic Defect?

The OP isn't "propagating" anything.  She's asking about an existing horse that she would like to go try.  This isn't a question of reproduction.  
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foundation horse
Reg. Aug 2004
Posted 2014-03-31 8:39 AM
Subject: RE: Impressive bloodlines...would you EVER buy one of his offspring?...


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Alicat0909 - 2014-03-31 1:05 AM

I dont really have a dog in this fight but for curiosities sake do you hold the same stance on every known genetic mutation...such as HERDA or PSSM?

Im probably wrong but isnt HYPP the ONLY disease that can be managed by diet and exercise?


I absolutely adore King P234 and most of His Get. However, I will NOT have anything to do w/ Poco Bueno due to Herda. So, Yes I am consistent.

Now, here is an analogy for those in the Cow Business. Say, One has a Bull who is a who wonderful Herd Breeding Bull, but with one exception, he throws a 'three eyed' calve every other breeding. Would Cow Breeders continue to propagate this specific Bull's Bloodline? Now apply the same logic to Impressive.
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wyoming barrel racer
Reg. Apr 2006
Posted 2014-03-31 9:28 AM
Subject: RE: Impressive bloodlines...would you EVER buy one of his offspring?...


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Alicat0909 - 2014-03-31 12:05 AM I dont really have a dog in this fight but for curiosities sake do you hold the same stance on every known genetic mutation...such as HERDA or PSSM? Im probably wrong but isnt HYPP the ONLY disease that can be managed by diet and exercise?

PSSM can be managed and HERDA is so much more rare. As for breeding, I would stay away from these lines just as much. I have tested everything that I breed for the 5-Panel. Now my show horse goes to Poco Bueno 5 times. I really didn't know much about his lines when I bought him. I knew his sire had tested NEG on the 5 panel. With the PSSM popping up every where I did the test for PSSM1 and he is NEG. Since he is a gelding and his sire is NEG for HERDA I don't worry about that, BUT for re-sale purposes, I am also going to do a 5 Panel on him because I know it will be asked in the event I offer him for sale. 
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ndiehl
Reg. Feb 2011
Posted 2014-03-31 9:35 AM
Subject: RE: Impressive bloodlines...would you EVER buy one of his offspring?...



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foundation horse - 2014-03-31 8:39 AM

Alicat0909 - 2014-03-31 1:05 AM

I dont really have a dog in this fight but for curiosities sake do you hold the same stance on every known genetic mutation...such as HERDA or PSSM?

Im probably wrong but isnt HYPP the ONLY disease that can be managed by diet and exercise?


I absolutely adore King P234 and most of His Get. However, I will NOT have anything to do w/ Poco Bueno due to Herda. So, Yes I am consistent.

Now, here is an analogy for those in the Cow Business. Say, One has a Bull who is a who wonderful Herd Breeding Bull, but with one exception, he throws a 'three eyed' calve every other breeding. Would Cow Breeders continue to propagate this specific Bull's Bloodline? Now apply the same logic to Impressive.

Foundation horse I respect your opinion on a lot of things but this just seems weird. IF they test negative for everything why wouldn't you try it? You may be missing out on some great crosses. I don't agree with breeding carriers but if they don't have it go for it.
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SaraJean
Reg. Dec 2006
Posted 2014-03-31 10:08 AM
Subject: RE: Impressive bloodlines...would you EVER buy one of his offspring?...


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foundation horse - 2014-03-31 7:39 AM
Alicat0909 - 2014-03-31 1:05 AM I dont really have a dog in this fight but for curiosities sake do you hold the same stance on every known genetic mutation...such as HERDA or PSSM? Im probably wrong but isnt HYPP the ONLY disease that can be managed by diet and exercise?
I absolutely adore King P234 and most of His Get. However, I will NOT have anything to do w/ Poco Bueno due to Herda. So, Yes I am consistent. Now, here is an analogy for those in the Cow Business. Say, One has a Bull who is a who wonderful Herd Breeding Bull, but with one exception, he throws a 'three eyed' calve every other breeding. Would Cow Breeders continue to propagate this specific Bull's Bloodline? Now apply the same logic to Impressive.

Well.....on the cattle end of things. There are several genetic defects in the Angus breed and yes, people in the business are still heavily using these lines. No different than horses. Those who care about quality in their programs have tested & removed carriers from their herds, others have not. 
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Southtxponygirl
Reg. Nov 2006
Posted 2014-03-31 10:46 AM
Subject: RE: Impressive bloodlines...would you EVER buy one of his offspring?...



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rachellyn80 - 2014-03-31 7:59 AM
foundation horse - 2014-03-30 9:50 PM
cheryl makofka - 2014-03-30 9:34 PM
foundation horse - 2014-03-30 9:14 PM
Fairweather - 2014-03-30 8:05 PM  Intelligent horses always get a bad rap. Not everyone can deal with intelligent horses. 



I love them and I just gave away 2 heavily bred Impressive bred horses that I absolutely loved. Give them a job they liked and didn't get bored with and you couldn't find a better working horse. Great work ethic but you had to earn it. 
Frances, intelligence and genetics are two completely different entirely things. I am not doubting that there are intelligent Impressive Bred Horses. I am stating that Impressive Bred Horses are a KNOWN Genetic Risk. Why propagate a KNOWN Genetic Risk?
If the horses are double negative there is no risk, I'm not sure what your point is.
Now bear with me here. W/O Genetic Testing, One does not know if an Impressive bred horse is N/N or N/H. Had Impressive not been propagated, there would be no need of Genetic Testing now would there. HYPP has been specifically traced back to Impressive which is Genetic Defect. Why propagate a Known Genetic Defect?
The OP isn't "propagating" anything.  She's asking about an existing horse that she would like to go try.  This isn't a question of reproduction.  

 
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OregonBR
Reg. Dec 2003
Posted 2014-03-31 11:13 AM
Subject: RE: Impressive bloodlines...would you EVER buy one of his offspring?...


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If she is N/N, go for it.   
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lonely va barrelxr
Reg. Apr 2005
Posted 2014-03-31 11:49 AM
Subject: RE: Impressive bloodlines...would you EVER buy one of his offspring?...



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I am posting this from Medline Plus, tho you can google and find many articles in the same vein - and for the purpose to clarify that HYPP is NOT exclusively equine. Also, although it is definitively genetic and attached to Impressive, I have known another Lucky Bars son that was HYPP positive.



Hyperkalemic periodic paralysis



Hyperkalemic periodic paralysis is a disorder that involves occasional episodes of muscle weakness and, sometimes, higher than normal levels of potassium in the blood.

It is one of a group of genetic disorders that includes hypokalemic periodic paralysis and thyrotoxic periodic paralysis.

Causes

Hyperkalemic periodic paralysis is congenital, which means it is present from before birth. In most cases, it is passed down through families (inherited) as an autosomal dominant disorder. That means only one parent needs to pass the gene related to this condition on to you in order for you to be affected.

Occasionally, the condition may be the result of a genetic problem that is not passed down through families.

It is believed that the disorder is related to problems with the way the body controls sodium and potassium levels in cells.

Risk factors include a family history of periodic paralysis. The condition occurs in approximately 1 in every 100,000 people. It affects men more often than women.





To the OP: if you like the horse then try it.
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FlyingHigh1454
Reg. Oct 2013
Posted 2014-03-31 12:04 PM
Subject: RE: Impressive bloodlines...would you EVER buy one of his offspring?...


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The Impressive gelding I know isn't a barrel horse (far from it in fact, great moving western pleasure horse), but he has the greatest mind and is completely bombproof, very sensitive under saddle, but very good with kids. And he's an Appaloosa, so that makes it even more surprising, haha. He is 4 or 5 generations back though.
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lindseylou2290
Reg. Aug 2013
Posted 2014-03-31 12:07 PM
Subject: RE: Impressive bloodlines...would you EVER buy one of his offspring?...



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SaraJean - 2014-03-31 10:08 AM
foundation horse - 2014-03-31 7:39 AM
Alicat0909 - 2014-03-31 1:05 AM I dont really have a dog in this fight but for curiosities sake do you hold the same stance on every known genetic mutation...such as HERDA or PSSM? Im probably wrong but isnt HYPP the ONLY disease that can be managed by diet and exercise?
I absolutely adore King P234 and most of His Get. However, I will NOT have anything to do w/ Poco Bueno due to Herda. So, Yes I am consistent. Now, here is an analogy for those in the Cow Business. Say, One has a Bull who is a who wonderful Herd Breeding Bull, but with one exception, he throws a 'three eyed' calve every other breeding. Would Cow Breeders continue to propagate this specific Bull's Bloodline? Now apply the same logic to Impressive.
Well.....on the cattle end of things. There are several genetic defects in the Angus breed and yes, people in the business are still heavily using these lines. No different than horses. Those who care about quality in their programs have tested & removed carriers from their herds, others have not. 

I can vouch for Sara about the Angus industry as well as the Short Horns ... both have things like this going on.  Breeders with ethics and quality ideals move away from the genetic "defects".  They also test and if something is the equivalent of N/N, that heifer/bull is considered breeding sound and they move on in most cases.  This is just a generalization 

 The OP is looking to buy a N/N (I think I read that correctly) horse for her child and is not talking about breeding it.  Go for it if you like the horse.

 However, this industry (equine) as a whole has more emphasis on profit than genetic clarity and ethics - yes this is a generalization.  We've all seen those backyard stallions who shouldn't be stallions - that is no different that people propagating a N/H carrier.  The genetic disease does not go away - the animal is a carrier, don't freaking breed it. Just like that backyard stallion, don't breed it. 
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OregonBR
Reg. Dec 2003
Posted 2014-03-31 1:08 PM
Subject: RE: Impressive bloodlines...would you EVER buy one of his offspring?...


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Just to add some clarity to the genetic issue.  

HYPP Dominant
PSSM1 Dominant
MH Dominant
HERDA Recessive
GBED Recessive

All dominants only require one copy of the gene to be afflicted and to pass it on to their offspring (50% of the time) who are themselves afflicted.  

All recessives - one copy means they are a carriers and are not afflicted with the disease. But they will pass on the carrier status to 50% of their offspring. If two carriers are bred to each other, they statistically will have 25% afflicted (two copies of the recessive) 50% carrier status and 25% non carrier.  


Edited by OregonBR 2014-04-01 4:17 PM
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Airbornetx
Reg. Sep 2014
Posted 2014-09-08 12:03 PM
Subject: RE: Impressive bloodlines...would you EVER buy one of his offspring?...


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I bought a horse out of Texas who is built like a Sherman tank, ropes, ranch works, laid back and moves beautifully. They were selling as grade, but I insisted there had to be papers on him, he was just too good looking! There was a registration and the papers were at the ranch HQ 200 miles away. I found out after I bought him he goes back to impressive 3 times. After my initial heart attack, I called AQHA and confirmed he was registered and is HYPP N/N. I tell you what, he is damn nice.
I find the lack of knowledge astounding. For example; I had a registered Thoroughbred mare that had a Stud named Impressive on her bloodline, COMPLETELY unrelated to AQHA Impressive. The lady said she was leery based off of a name and when she said that, I refused her a sale at ANY price, for ANY horse. Back to AQHA, if the horse is N/N it is a NORMAL horse and does NOT carry the gene. Some folks are just not that sharp.

Edited by Airbornetx 2014-09-08 12:04 PM
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Honeymoney
Reg. Apr 2012
Posted 2014-09-08 12:23 PM
Subject: RE: Impressive bloodlines...would you EVER buy one of his offspring?...


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I would NOT buy an Impressive bred horse. It does not seem to bother some people though because a friend of mine has a son of Perksmaster out of a granddaughter of Impressive who won the AQHA WORLD SHOW in Sr. Barrels. She also did extremely well at the Ft Smith Futurity with the horse as a 4 year old. There is a teenage girl that runs in E TX that can beat everyone by 3-4 tenths of a second on A streak Of Fling horse out of an Impressive mare. A neighbor has a team roping horse that he has won more than a few trucks and trailers with that is Impressive bred and is HYPP positive. I think he told me that it costs him about $1000 a month to keep the horse where he can ride him. He has the means to do this so it doesn't really bother him. I guess it all boils down to the horse.

Two facts---there was a Wiescamp mare that had some offspring that had HYPP. Impressive was no the only horse that passed on the trait.

If HYPP was a dominate trait ALL of the offspring that goes back to Impressive would have HYPP. It is definitely recessive.
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ACEINTHEHOLE
Reg. Apr 2005
Posted 2014-09-08 12:32 PM
Subject: RE: Impressive bloodlines...would you EVER buy one of his offspring?...



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Honeymoney - 2014-09-08 12:23 PM I would NOT buy an Impressive bred horse. It does not seem to bother some people though because a friend of mine has a son of Perksmaster out of a granddaughter of Impressive who won the AQHA WORLD SHOW in Sr. Barrels. She also did extremely well at the Ft Smith Futurity with the horse as a 4 year old. There is a teenage girl that runs in E TX that can beat everyone by 3-4 tenths of a second on A streak Of Fling horse out of an Impressive mare. A neighbor has a team roping horse that he has won more than a few trucks and trailers with that is Impressive bred and is HYPP positive. I think he told me that it costs him about $1000 a month to keep the horse where he can ride him. He has the means to do this so it doesn't really bother him. I guess it all boils down to the horse. Two facts---there was a Wiescamp mare that had some offspring that had HYPP. Impressive was no the only horse that passed on the trait. If HYPP was a dominate trait ALL of the offspring that goes back to Impressive would have HYPP. It is definitely recessive.
 Not true.. in the genetics world, the definition of dominant is:  it only takes one allele to be expressed in the phenotype.  So you can breed a H/H to an N/N.. getting an N/H that can express the trait.  HYPP is a dominant trait.  

Also in genetics the dominant trait is expressed with a capital letter "H" and the recessive trait with a lower case letter "h".. so another giveaway it is dominant is the genetic display of H/H, N/H, or N/N.

 

Edited by ACEINTHEHOLE 2014-09-08 12:50 PM
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OregonBR
Reg. Dec 2003
Posted 2014-09-08 12:45 PM
Subject: RE: Impressive bloodlines...would you EVER buy one of his offspring?...


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Honeymoney - 2014-09-08 10:23 AM I would NOT buy an Impressive bred horse. It does not seem to bother some people though because a friend of mine has a son of Perksmaster out of a granddaughter of Impressive who won the AQHA WORLD SHOW in Sr. Barrels. She also did extremely well at the Ft Smith Futurity with the horse as a 4 year old. There is a teenage girl that runs in E TX that can beat everyone by 3-4 tenths of a second on A streak Of Fling horse out of an Impressive mare. A neighbor has a team roping horse that he has won more than a few trucks and trailers with that is Impressive bred and is HYPP positive. I think he told me that it costs him about $1000 a month to keep the horse where he can ride him. He has the means to do this so it doesn't really bother him. I guess it all boils down to the horse. Two facts---there was a Wiescamp mare that had some offspring that had HYPP. Impressive was no the only horse that passed on the trait. If HYPP was a dominate trait ALL of the offspring that goes back to Impressive would have HYPP. It is definitely recessive.

Impressive himself was N/H.  Meaning of the 2 genes he had on that spot of his DNA he would pass on the H (positive for HYPP) 50% of the time.  The other 50% of the time he would pass on the N meaning the Non-HYPP gene.  So roughly half of his offspring had HYPP and half did not.  That's what dominant means to the offspring of a horse.  The effect of having a positive domiant gene, is that it only takes one to be affected and to pass it forward.  

I would not be afraid of an N/N HYPP horse as they are not affected by the mutated gene.  However, just because they don't have HYPP doesn't mean they can't have a different undesirable gene or characteristic.  
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Honeymoney
Reg. Apr 2012
Posted 2014-09-08 1:14 PM
Subject: RE: Impressive bloodlines...would you EVER buy one of his offspring?...


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ACEINTHEHOLE - 2014-09-08 12:32 PM

Honeymoney - 2014-09-08 12:23 PM I would NOT buy an Impressive bred horse. It does not seem to bother some people though because a friend of mine has a son of Perksmaster out of a granddaughter of Impressive who won the AQHA WORLD SHOW in Sr. Barrels. She also did extremely well at the Ft Smith Futurity with the horse as a 4 year old. There is a teenage girl that runs in E TX that can beat everyone by 3-4 tenths of a second on A streak Of Fling horse out of an Impressive mare. A neighbor has a team roping horse that he has won more than a few trucks and trailers with that is Impressive bred and is HYPP positive. I think he told me that it costs him about $1000 a month to keep the horse where he can ride him. He has the means to do this so it doesn't really bother him. I guess it all boils down to the horse. Two facts---there was a Wiescamp mare that had some offspring that had HYPP. Impressive was no the only horse that passed on the trait. If HYPP was a dominate trait ALL of the offspring that goes back to Impressive would have HYPP. It is definitely recessive.
Β Not true.. in the genetics world, the definition of dominant is: Β it only takes one allele to be expressed in the phenotype. Β So you can breed a H/H to an N/N.. getting an N/H that can express the trait. Β HYPP is a dominant trait. Β 

Also in genetics the dominant trait is expressed with a capital letter "H" and the recessive trait with a lower case letter "h".. so another giveaway it is dominant is the genetic display of H/H, N/H, or N/N.

Β 

Just for curiosity, have you ever done a Punnett square with dominate and recessive genes??? I teach it.

Tried to copy just the square but this has some good info.

Probability of Inheritance


The value of studying genetics is in understanding how we can predict the likelihood of inheriting particular traits. This can help plant and animal breeders in developing varieties that have more desirable qualities. It can also help people explain and predict patterns of inheritance in family lines.

One of the easiest ways to calculate the mathematical probability of inheriting a specific trait was invented by an early 20th century English geneticist named Reginald Punnett click this icon to hear the preceding name pronounced. His technique employs what we now call a Punnett square. This is a simple graphical way of discovering all of the potential combinations of genotypes that can occur in children, given the genotypes of their parents. It also shows us the odds of each of the offspring genotypes occurring.

Setting up and using a Punnett square is quite simple once you understand how it works. You begin by drawing a grid of perpendicular lines:

basic Punnett square grid framework--essentially the beginning of tick-tack-toe game box

Next, you put the genotype of one parent across the top and that of the other parent down the left side. For example, if parent pea plant genotypes were YY and GG respectively, the setup would be:

Punnett square with the genotype of one parent on the top with one letter in each square and the genotype of the other parent on the left side with one letter in each square

Note that only one letter goes in each box for the parents. It does not matter which parent is on the side or the top of the Punnett square.

Next, all you have to do is fill in the boxes by copying the row and column-head letters across or down into the empty squares. This gives us the predicted frequency of all of the potential genotypes among the offspring each time reproduction occurs.

same as the previous Punnett square but with the expected genotype frequencies of offspring are indicated in the 4 empty squares on the lower right

In this example, 100% of the offspring will likely be heterozygous (YG). Since the Y (yellow) allele is dominant over the G (green) allele for pea plants, 100% of the YG offspring will have a yellow phenotype, as Mendel observed in his breeding experiments.

In another example (shown below), if the parent plants both have heterozygous (YG) genotypes, there will be 25% YY, 50% YG, and 25% GG offspring on average. These percentages are determined based on the fact that each of the 4 offspring boxes in a Punnett square is 25% (1 out of 4). As to phenotypes, 75% will be Y and only 25% will be G. These will be the odds every time a new offspring is conceived by parents with YG genotypes.

Punnett square with both parents heterozygous (YG) showing that the offspring probablities are 25% YY, 50% YG, and 25% GG

An offspring's genotype is the result of the combination of genes in the sex cells or gametes (sperm and ova) that came together in its conception. One sex cell came from each parent. Sex cells normally only have one copy of the gene for each trait (e.g., one copy of the Y or G form of the gene in the example above). Each of the two Punnett square boxes in which the parent genes for a trait are placed (across the top or on the left side) actually represents one of the two possible genotypes for a parent sex cell. Which of the two parental copies of a gene is inherited depends on which sex cell is inherited--it is a matter of chance. By placing each of the two copies in its own box has the effect of giving it a 50% chance of being inherited.

If you are not yet clear about how to make a Punnett Square and interpret its result, take the time to try to figure it out before going on.


Are Punnett Squares Just Academic Games?

Why is it important for you to know about Punnett squares? The answer is that they can be used as predictive tools when considering having children. Let us assume, for instance, that both you and your mate are carriers for a particularly unpleasant genetically inherited disease such as cystic fibrosis click this icon to hear the preceding name pronounced. Of course, you are worried about whether your children will be healthy and normal. For this example, let us define "A" as being the dominant normal allele and "a" as the recessive abnormal one that is responsible for cystic fibrosis. As carriers, you and your mate are both heterozygous (Aa). This disease only afflicts those who are homozygous recessive (aa). The Punnett square below makes it clear that at each birth, there will be a 25% chance of you having a normal homozygous (AA) child, a 50% chance of a healthy heterozygous (Aa) carrier child like you and your mate, and a 25% chance of a homozygous recessive (aa) child who probably will eventually die from this condition.

Punnett square with both parents heterozygous (Aa) If both parents are carriers of the recessive
allele for a disorder, all of their children will
face the following odds of inheriting it:
25% chance of having the recessive disorder
50% chance of being a healthy carrier
25% chance of being healthy and not have
the recessive allele at all
If a carrier (Aa) for such a recessive disease mates with someone who has it (aa), the likelihood of their children also inheriting the condition is far greater (as shown below). On average, half of the children will be heterozygous (Aa) and, therefore, carriers. The remaining half will inherit 2 recessive alleles (aa) and develop the disease.

Punnett square with heterozygous (Aa) and homozygous recessive parents (aa) If one parent is a carrier and the other has a
recessive disorder, their children will have the
following odds of inheriting it:
50% chance of being a healthy carrier
50% chance having the recessive disorder
It is likely that every one of us is a carrier for a large number of recessive alleles. Some of these alleles can cause life-threatening defects if they are inherited from both parents. In addition to cystic fibrosis, albinism, and beta-thalassemia are recessive disorders.

Some disorders are caused by dominant alleles for genes. Inheriting just one copy of such a dominant allele will cause the disorder. This is the case with Huntington disease, achondroplastic dwarfism, and polydactyly. People who are heterozygous (Aa) are not healthy carriers. They have the disorder just like homozygous dominant (AA) individuals.

Punnett square with heterozygous (Aa) and homozygous recessive parents (aa) If only one parent has a single copy of a
dominant allele for a dominant disorder,
their children will have a 50% chance of
inheriting the disorder and 50% chance
of being entirely normal.
Punnett squares are standard tools used by genetic counselors. Theoretically, the likelihood of inheriting many traits, including useful ones, can be predicted using them. It is also possible to construct squares for more than one trait at a time. However, some traits are not inherited with the simple mathematical probability suggested here. We will explore some of these exceptions in the next section of the tutorial.










Edited by Honeymoney 2014-09-08 1:45 PM
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ACEINTHEHOLE
Reg. Apr 2005
Posted 2014-09-08 3:06 PM
Subject: RE: Impressive bloodlines...would you EVER buy one of his offspring?...



Tough Patooty


Posts: 2615
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Location: Sperry, OK
Yes I have.  I am a registered RVT with a Animal Science back ground.  Below is the Punnett Square for HYPP, all capital letters.. means a dominant trait.  Also per the Animal Genetics newsletter.... "HYPP is a dominant disorder meaning both homozygous positive (HH) and heterozygous (nH) horses will be affected. Only homozygous negative (nn) horses are not affected by HYPP.  Because HYPP is dominant disorder, the effects of it can also be transposed to other breeds of horses when intermixing occurs. This makes the recognition of this disorder very important in preserving the inherited health of all horses."  Your assesment that HYPP is a recessive gene is incorrect.

 

Edited by ACEINTHEHOLE 2014-09-08 3:08 PM
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Southtxponygirl
Reg. Nov 2006
Posted 2014-09-08 3:34 PM
Subject: RE: Impressive bloodlines...would you EVER buy one of his offspring?...



A Somebody to Everybody


Posts: 41354
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Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas
Wow this is an older thread, I wonder why it was brought back up, oh well, now its up on the front page now, just wondering if the OP bought this mare for her son? Does anybody know?
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shopnpro
Reg. Aug 2011
Posted 2014-09-08 3:36 PM
Subject: RE: Impressive bloodlines...would you EVER buy one of his offspring?...


Regular


Posts: 78
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Just curious- how is testing done and how much does it cost? How do you find out where they do it.
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