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 I'm Cooler Offline
Posts: 6387
   
Location: Pacific Northwest | The fields are so much bigger now than they were back then too. When Affirmed won the Triple Crown there were 11 horses in the Derby, 7 in the Preakness and 5 in the Belmont. Not sure if it makes a difference but I do think it makes it difficult to fairly compare the horses of today to horses back then. |
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 No Fear
Posts: 5089
Location: TN | dianeguinn - 2014-06-08 1:02 PM Anniemae - 2014-06-08 12:45 PM I was hoping CC would win too, unfortunately, that didn't happen. However, I do feel a bit sorry for the connections of Tonalist. The track sure went quiet when he won and it should have been cause for celebration. It reminded me of when Blame beat Zenyatta in the Breeders Cup. The sentimental favorite doesn't win and it doesn't bode well with the masses...
There may or may not be another TC in my lifetime, I can only hope to see another.
1919 - Sir Barton
1930 - Gallent Fox
1935 - Omaha
1937 - War Admiral
1941 - Whirlaway
1943 - Count Fleet
1946 - Assault
1948 - Citation
1973 - Secretariat
1977 - Seattle Slew
1978 - Affirmed
It may be, as some have stated, that racing strategy has changed over the years or breeding decisions are different. IDK - Maybe, we just haven't seen that exceptional extraordinary brilliant "once in a lifetime" superstar colt lately... He has to be the 'one in a million', the one that against all odds, runs and wins.  I think something that most people are not considering is that steroids were not illegal in the 70's. I'm not saying that the TC winners would or would not have won with or without drugs or that any of them were on steroids, but I'm saying that could very well make a difference in how horses in that decade handled 3 close races as compared to now. Look at how Big Brown's speed changed when he was pulled off Equipoise. Everyone is saying that the quality of horses has declined. I don't think that's so. I just don't think that racing is the same as it was in 70's, and I think that there's just so many quality horses and they have to run to run totally on their heart w/no medicinal help....I'm not saying that the former TC winners were on anything, but I do know that it was widely used in racing back then.
Wow Diane, this is something I haven't even thought of...... |
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 I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
 
Location: In the Hills of Texas | komet. - 2014-06-08 1:00 AM Nevertooold - 2014-06-08 12:15 AM stayceem - 2014-06-08 12:06 AM jbhoot - 2014-06-08 12:05 AM stayceem - 2014-06-07 11:48 PM jbhoot - 2014-06-07 11:31 PM stayceem - 2014-06-07 10:47 PM Dreem_Chazer - 2014-06-07 10:37 PM I so disagree with you 3 to Go!!! Who are any of us to judge this man for saying something right after a dream is lost!! I have agreed with not letting horses who did not qualify for the Kentucky Derby for years!! I still love Chrome and his owners no matter what!!!!!! Has the triple crown always been run this way???? Or did you used to have to qualify and use the same 20 horses? There is really no such race as the Triple Crown. It is a term for three separate races. Each has it's own rules. The term Triple Crown was made up by the press. Until 1950 they did not even have a trophy for it. But the big dispute about allowing fresh horses into the other races... at some point was that not allowed?? Trying to understand the fuss Frankly I have no idea why people are complaining other than they think it is a race in it's self which has rules. It is not and does not. The only rule to win the triple crown is to enter all three races and win all three. My question though... has it changed? LOL!!!! I can't imagine a horse maturing enough in the 5 week spread between these 3 races to warrant that explanation.. Especially since the Belmont is 1/4 longer than the Derby.. I don't think the rules should be changed... It would be unfair to the memory of the 11 horses that have won the TC in the last 138 years and it would bring about enough winners to make a TC winner an everyday thing.....
Tonalist didn't qualify to run the derby and my point is they could have pushed the envelope even though he wasn't 100%. He only had one out as a two year old and didn't place so I would say the owner's were smart enough to know he wasn't ready and didn't race him again until his 3 year old year. So yes...A year makes a huge difference. Tonalist not only skipped the Derby but he also skipped the Preakness so he became the 9th straight horse to skip the Preakness to go on to win the Belmont so I sure understand CC's owner's frustrations.
If CC wasn't stepped on out of the gates we might have seen a different end result but of course we will never know. I can't wait for CC to heal up and be able to run against Tonalist once again.
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  The Original Cyber Bartender
Location: Washington | Tired of CC's owners playing the foul game. They know the deal when they went. Sit down and shut up. I bet the fresh horses, and guess what. Truly sorry he got stepped on leaving the gate....IMHO it was a huge excuse for CC, that and he was getting boxed in, (figured they would, why Victor didn't move out to begin with is beyond me) But big mouth Colburn ran his jaw...AGAIN and has forever lost me. The a ss fits him.
I dislike a cry baby....especially when they knew the rules going foward.
Many healing prayers to CC, and thank you CC for having the class to over come your owner.
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 Veteran
Posts: 292
Location: Northeast Nebraska | The jock rode a terrible ride. The owner should STFU. No, they should not change how the races are run. Hope Junior heals up ok. |
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 Midget Lover
Location: Kentucky | fatchance - 2014-06-08 5:28 PM Tired of CC's owners playing the foul game. They know the deal when they went. Sit down and shut up. I bet the fresh horses, and guess what. Truly sorry he got stepped on leaving the gate....IMHO it was a huge excuse for CC, that and he was getting boxed in, (figured they would, why Victor didn't move out to begin with is beyond me) But big mouth Colburn ran his jaw...AGAIN and has forever lost me. The a ss fits him.
I dislike a cry baby....especially when they knew the rules going foward.
Many healing prayers to CC, and thank you CC for having the class to over come your owner.
No matter how unpopular, I agree with this opinion also. I didn't like Steve when he was at Churchill, and I didn't like him when he ran his mouth off when CC lost. He should have listened to his wife, who was behind him trying to get him to shut up.
To be a TC winner, you have to win against any horse you are put up against. Changing the rules to fit your agenda isn't going to happen. He knew going into the race there would be "fresher" horses running. If he was pouty pants about that, he should have pulled him then.
I am a CC fan, and was hoping he would win, but it just wasn't his day. Steve could have had a little more class, but instead, showed his @$$ for sure. |
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Expert
Posts: 1561
| fatchance - 2014-06-08 4:28 PM Tired of CC's owners playing the foul game. They know the deal when they went. Sit down and shut up. I bet the fresh horses, and guess what. Truly sorry he got stepped on leaving the gate....IMHO it was a huge excuse for CC, that and he was getting boxed in, (figured they would, why Victor didn't move out to begin with is beyond me) But big mouth Colburn ran his jaw...AGAIN and has forever lost me. The a ss fits him.
I dislike a cry baby....especially when they knew the rules going foward.
Many healing prayers to CC, and thank you CC for having the class to over come your owner.
irony... |
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I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
Location: In the Hills of Texas | fatchance - 2014-06-08 4:28 PM Tired of CC's owners playing the foul game. They know the deal when they went. Sit down and shut up. I bet the fresh horses, and guess what. Truly sorry he got stepped on leaving the gate....IMHO it was a huge excuse for CC, that and he was getting boxed in, (figured they would, why Victor didn't move out to begin with is beyond me) But big mouth Colburn ran his jaw...AGAIN and has forever lost me. The a ss fits him.
I dislike a cry baby....especially when they knew the rules going foward.
Many healing prayers to CC, and thank you CC for having the class to over come your owner.
FC...Tells us how you really feel..LOL
I didn't see the video with his comments until this morning since I left the house before CC lost. I have to agree...He was a real cry baby and I hope his wife kicked him in the gonads when they got home as what he did to her was BS too.
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I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
Location: In the Hills of Texas | Nevertooold - 2014-06-08 5:11 PM fatchance - 2014-06-08 4:28 PM Tired of CC's owners playing the foul game. They know the deal when they went. Sit down and shut up. I bet the fresh horses, and guess what. Truly sorry he got stepped on leaving the gate....IMHO it was a huge excuse for CC, that and he was getting boxed in, (figured they would, why Victor didn't move out to begin with is beyond me) But big mouth Colburn ran his jaw...AGAIN and has forever lost me. The a ss fits him.
I dislike a cry baby....especially when they knew the rules going foward.
Many healing prayers to CC, and thank you CC for having the class to over come your owner.
FC...Tells us how you really feel..LOL
I didn't see the video with his comments until this morning since I left the house before CC lost. I have to agree...He was a real cry baby and I hope his wife kicked him in the gonads when they got home as what he did to her was BS too.
Meant to add...I highly doubt that the racing world will miss him with another Triple Crown contender as it's evident they don't get that CC is a freak just like Scamper was and they can breed that mare again the same and will probably get what the breeding of him dictates...Not much. JMO It was a neat fairy tale story and CC stole the hearts of America and racing needed that. |
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| fatchance - 2014-06-08 5:28 PM Tired of CC's owners playing the foul game. They know the deal when they went. Sit down and shut up. I bet the fresh horses, and guess what. Truly sorry he got stepped on leaving the gate....IMHO it was a huge excuse for CC, that and he was getting boxed in, (figured they would, why Victor didn't move out to begin with is beyond me) But big mouth Colburn ran his jaw...AGAIN and has forever lost me. The a ss fits him.
I dislike a cry baby....especially when they knew the rules going foward.
Many healing prayers to CC, and thank you CC for having the class to over come your owner.
You've stated my sentiments exactly! They knew going in what the rules were and that they would be running against fresh horses. They knew they would also have a target on their backs. Mr. Coburn, even after a night to think about it, continues the rant today with the audacity and total lack of compassion in comparing race horses to children in wheelchairs. He is, indeed, a DumbA**....Chrome, the other partner, the trainer Mr. Sherman and the rest of the connections may of deserved a Triple Crown but Mr. Coburn doesn't deserve to be called a horseman. He is a jerk and I hope I never have to listen to him again. I got strongly ridiculed on FB for saying he was a sore-loser right after the race. After hearing him this morning, the term sore-loser was giving him too much credit. |
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The Original Cyber Bartender
Location: Washington | Let me add this to this conversation.
We were with newbie's this weekend to this wonderful sporting event. It was hard to explain Cogburns rant.
I doubt they will ever care to watch again. |
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| fatchance - 2014-06-08 7:23 PM Let me add this to this conversation.
We were with newbie's this weekend to this wonderful sporting event. It was hard to explain Cogburns rant.
I doubt they will ever care to watch again.
Because he so poorly represented horse racing and the racing community to the outside world. When you become a public figure and thereby represent an industry, there comes a lot of personal responsibility. Mr. Coburn failed miserably at his upholding that responsibilty. Some will say that he didn't have any responsibility. I, personally, believe if advancing the horse racing industry is of any interest to him at all he did have responsibility. |
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I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
Location: In the Hills of Texas | I've been thinking about this all day and some say he was an ass but brought up what has been considered an unfair practice of fresh horses to be included in the Triple Crown races. All of the Triple Crown winners had the same hurdle and came out on top. To change the rules now would be lowering the standards in order for someone to succeed. I disagree with that in the real world along with racing. If we never have another Triple Crown winner is better then lowering the standards in order to have one. It would cheapen what is a real feat. |
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The Original Cyber Bartender
Location: Washington | Nevertooold - 2014-06-08 4:50 PM I've been thinking about this all day and some say he was an ass but brought up what has been considered an unfair practice of fresh horses to be included in the Triple Crown races. All of the Triple Crown winners had the same hurdle and came out on top. To change the rules now would be lowering the standards in order for someone to succeed. I disagree with that in the real world along with racing. If we never have another Triple Crown winner is better then lowering the standards in order to have one. It would cheapen what is a real feat.
Does it matter? Meaning he knew there would be fresh horses gunning his horse. OH SURPRISE! Personally tired of those who feel they know best when they are new to the game. CC trainer is keeping the class, but not Cogburn.
I find it funny he(Cogburn) wasn't more hacked off by his horse getting purposely boxed in. Sometimes you just have to make a point.
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 Can You Hear Me Now?
Location: When you hit the middle of nowhere .. Keep driving | I spoke my mind yesterday in he other thread. I will say this again though. I feel for Mr.Sherman. A good horse person here.
http://www.wdrb.com/story/25722256/crawford-sherman-updates-chrome-... |
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Expert
Posts: 3300
| The only change I think they should make is that you should have grade 1 money earned so green horses can't be ran.. If your horse has only won a maiden special weight claiming you shouldn't be able to run it... Jmo... |
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The Original Cyber Bartender
Location: Washington | aqhabarrelchic1 - 2014-06-08 5:21 PM The only change I think they should make is that you should have grade 1 money earned so green horses can't be ran.. If your horse has only won a maiden special weight claiming you shouldn't be able to run it... Jmo...
Might want to start adding up graded 1 races for 3 year olds. It's why they came up with the point system.
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 Angel in a Sorrel Coat
Posts: 16030
Location: In a happy place | Nevertooold - 2014-06-08 5:11 PM fatchance - 2014-06-08 4:28 PM Tired of CC's owners playing the foul game. They know the deal when they went. Sit down and shut up. I bet the fresh horses, and guess what. Truly sorry he got stepped on leaving the gate....IMHO it was a huge excuse for CC, that and he was getting boxed in, (figured they would, why Victor didn't move out to begin with is beyond me) But big mouth Colburn ran his jaw...AGAIN and has forever lost me. The a ss fits him.
I dislike a cry baby....especially when they knew the rules going foward.
Many healing prayers to CC, and thank you CC for having the class to over come your owner.
FC...Tells us how you really feel..LOL
I didn't see the video with his comments until this morning since I left the house before CC lost. I have to agree...He was a real cry baby and I hope his wife kicked him in the gonads when they got home as what he did to her was BS too.
I am so glad you said that about his wife. I wanted to say something about it but didn't feel I had the right words. I cannot believe he so dissed her too. At least she has some class dispite her husband. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 477
| Nevertooold - 2014-06-08 2:04 PM
komet. - 2014-06-08 1:00 AM Nevertooold - 2014-06-08 12:15 AM stayceem - 2014-06-08 12:06 AM jbhoot - 2014-06-08 12:05 AM stayceem - 2014-06-07 11:48 PM jbhoot - 2014-06-07 11:31 PM stayceem - 2014-06-07 10:47 PM Dreem_Chazer - 2014-06-07 10:37 PM I so disagree with you 3 to Go!!! Who are any of us to judge this man for saying something right after a dream is lost!! I have agreed with not letting horses who did not qualify for the Kentucky Derby for years!! I still love Chrome and his owners no matter what!!!!!! Has the triple crown always been run this way???? Or did you used to have to qualify and use the same 20 horses? There is really no such race as the Triple Crown. It is a term for three separate races. Each has it's own rules. The term Triple Crown was made up by the press. Until 1950 they did not even have a trophy for it. But the big dispute about allowing fresh horses into the other races... at some point was that not allowed?? Trying to understand the fuss Frankly I have no idea why people are complaining other than they think it is a race in it's self which has rules. It is not and does not. The only rule to win the triple crown is to enter all three races and win all three. My question though... has it changed? LOL!!!! I can't imagine a horse maturing enough in the 5 week spread between these 3 races to warrant that explanation.. Especially since the Belmont is 1/4 longer than the Derby.. I don't think the rules should be changed... It would be unfair to the memory of the 11 horses that have won the TC in the last 138 years and it would bring about enough winners to make a TC winner an everyday thing.....
If CC wasn't stepped on out of the gates we might have seen a different end result but of course we will never know. I can't wait for CC to heal up and be able to run against Tonalist once again.
I thought I read that Tonalist did run in the Peter Pan at Belmont 3 weeks ago?
http://espn.go.com/horse-racing/story/_/id/10916514/tonalist-hits-h...
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 Proud to be Deplorable
Posts: 1929
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Folks on-line