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 I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
    
Location: In the Hills of Texas | Thanks for writing that letter up and sending it out.  |
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Mrs. Troy
Location: western Nebraska | I got the measurements from several arenas we go to that use laser markers. One is a 35ft score, 70 between 1st and 2nd and 100 to the 3rd. The other is a 40ft score, 80 between the 1st and 2nd and 90 to the 3rd.
I wonder how many other arenas use these same measurements.
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 972
Location: Texas! | I see a lot of comments about the other factors that say this would be impossible like ground moisture, closed gates etc. but this is the same factors when the poles are set up and pole horses are still advertised off their times on their standard. Hmm?  |
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 Chicken Chick
Posts: 3562
Location: Texas | Destry Fleming - 2014-11-06 2:31 PM I like the idea of a standard pattern,,, but the only problem I see is that several of the arenas we lease already have "their" pattern set up on lasers. When they have lasers already in place we always try to use them and set our timers up in accordance with their pattern. Every once in awhile, we don't get our lasers exactly where they normally are (for one reason or another) but we always try to set them up right. Plus it also adds to excitement levels when someone breaks an arena record.
If they wanted to get on board all they would have to do would find the pattern size closest to what they are currently set up for, do some tweaking and leave it alone. It would then turn into "their" pattern. I imagine there won't be many size changes in one arena. Most likely they will find the size that suits them, get set up for it, and every race there after would be set up the same. So one arena would have a B pattern with every race, and another arena may have a D pattern with every race. I don't think they will be going "I wonder what size pattern we are going to have this race?". Which they could, but it would just be easier to find what suits the arena and stick with it so I would assume that would be the most popular choice.
If they weren't on board they didn't have to use a standard pattern. They could do their own thing, it just wouldn't be classified as a B pattern or whatever. Same thing as with standard patterns now. If they do a standard great, if not the show still goes on but no one at that race can say "My horse ran a 18 on this pattern." because that pattern wasn't a set pattern size. Just what ever they wanted to set up that day.
Hope that makes sense. |
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Chicken Chick
Posts: 3562
Location: Texas | WYOracer - 2014-11-06 10:13 PM I see a lot of comments about the other factors that say this would be impossible like ground moisture, closed gates etc. but this is the same factors when the poles are set up and pole horses are still advertised off their times on their standard. Hmm?
Same with barrel horses being advertised with their standard pattern times. Everyone knows there are variables that may make that time faster or slower... but it is all we have to go on. I don't think the "too many variables" argument holds up. We deal with the same variables already. |
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 Go For It!
Location: Texas | Okay everyone, go like our new facebook page… A New Standard in Barrel Racing… https://www.facebook.com/pages/A-New-Standard-in-Barrel-Racing/54087...
Let's keep this ball rolling!
Edited by grinandbareit 2014-11-07 1:31 AM
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 Last Comedian Standing 
Posts: 10919
Location: South Texas | RocketPilot - 2014-11-05 7:40 PM Why would the producers or associations care if they help people market their horses?
Because we all work together to improve and support things to make this industry grow......duh.....and most of us like myself are not JUST producers.
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Last Comedian Standing
Posts: 10919
Location: South Texas | As a producer of 10 to 12 multi day races a year for about 6 years, most of us use the same group of pens every year and we know those measurements off the top of our heads and can tell you our barrels measurements as well |
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Last Comedian Standing
Posts: 10919
Location: South Texas | halter_ego - 2014-11-06 11:41 AM daisycake123 - 2014-11-05 3:55 PM Too many varibales like ground, how mqny in a drag, inside arena, outside arens, air temp and dampness of ground vs wetness. Deepness of ground. I could go one. Ifmthey put new ground in a arena. Took the words right out of my mouth. Way too many things come into play besides the size of the pattern.
This is the same with the current standard pattern as well as when clocking pole bending horses who always run a standard pattern....yes it makes a difference and everyone should be aware of that......but on the whole the number (times) would be more relevant when comparing horses than the free for all you have now.....it is just a calibration to help standardize things a little better than they are today. |
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Last Comedian Standing
Posts: 10919
Location: South Texas | When you are trying to buy my horse off the internet and you go look at the past races it ran in currently you would have no idea what the measurements of those races were .....are you going to call the producer and say when Sally ran Bozo at your race on May 3rd what were the arena measurments? No but you wouldnt have too if the producer just posted there results with a simple notation of results run on pattern C or whatever |
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Last Comedian Standing
Posts: 10919
Location: South Texas | grinandbareit - 2014-11-06 1:10 PM I guess the big deal here is why in the world would you be against something like this? It is a fabulous tool and could benefit so many people. And it isn't any more work for the producers either. They have to set a pattern so why not look up the dimensions and just set one of those that are listed. We need ONE big producer to get this going and I feel confident that others will follow suit. I'm sure they already have measurements for lots of patterns in lots of different venues... just need to get them put on paper, added to their website and voila! It would be awesome!
As a producer NOT A PROBLEM.......as a barrel racer NOT A PROBLEM, as a seller of barrel horses and breeder in this industry.....NOT A PROBLEM and a good standardization tool for the industry |
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Last Comedian Standing
Posts: 10919
Location: South Texas | cheryl makofka - 2014-11-06 5:42 PM Dinero10 - 2014-11-06 5:05 PM I think this would be a good deal. You have my vote.
Just want to add - wether th eproducer would notate prior to barrel race which pattern was being used would be helpful for those girls that have horses that do better on small patterns or large patterns which horse to bring. Mainly if barrel racer had never been to that venue before to know the set up. Then said barrel racer could decide, do I want to enter or I will pass for those that may not have 2 or more horses to chose from depending on if they are small or big pattern runners. Does this make sense.
I like bigger patterns, so I usually shy away from smaller patterns... (Can't think that fast.) :)
good topic. Nevertoold this is what I was talking about. I can hear all the disgruntled people now when a pattern was advertised, but due to circumstances beyond the producers control the pattern had to be changed prior to the first run.
To be honest......the chances of that happening would be slim for most big races as these races are usually run in indoor pens and produced by producers who know those pens and measurements like the back of our hands way before any advertisement goes out |
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Last Comedian Standing
Posts: 10919
Location: South Texas | BS Hauler - 2014-11-06 6:54 PM I think one thing that would happen is the spread in price from a 1d horse to the 4 and 5 d horses will really exagerate. There would be no question on where a horse would fit in. We would just kill the value of a lot of horses.
I disagree ......it would bring more trueth to advertising......a 4D horse would still be a 4D horse.....but it would sure clean up some misrepresentation of horses being advertised as alleged 1D horses |
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Last Comedian Standing
Posts: 10919
Location: South Texas | As the producer of Wrapn3 Races I dont see this as a problem at all....we use the same set up at all arenas except the Rose Palace as it is more narrow than the other arenas we use. For example: We normally set 50 ft to the timer from the alley 30 foot to the 1st and 2nd then arc the 3rd at 100 feet. There is usually 80 foot between the 1st and 2nd barrel and the 1st and 2nd are 25 foot off the fence and that is in an arena that is 130 foot wide like Gonzales, Edna, Bryan (back pen). At Rose Palace we are 20 foot off the fences as the arena in more narrow and we are usually 90 foot to the 3rd due to arena conditions and holding pens. Plus we are 40 foot from the alley to the timers.
I apologize for typos.....on my Ipad heading to LA
Edited by snazzy 2014-11-07 7:01 AM
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 Saint Stacey
| snazzy - 2014-11-07 5:44 AM
BS Hauler - 2014-11-06 6:54 PM I think one thing that would happen is the spread in price from a 1d horse to the 4 and 5 d horses will really exagerate. There would be no question on where a horse would fit in. We would just kill the value of a lot of horses.
I disagree ......it would bring more trueth to advertising......a 4D horse would still be a 4D horse.....but it would sure clean up some misrepresentation of horses being advertised as alleged 1D horses
Snazzy has a very valid point. I know a girl that won a race one time with a 15.4 is a pen we frequent a lot. She advertised the horse as a 1D. Typical what wins in that one in a 14.4. The horse was not a 1D horse. He was just the best on that day. A girl that was new to the sport bought him and can't get a 1D time to save her life. She paid $12,000 and basically got a 3D/4D horse. There was no truth in the advertising of this horse and a newbie was taken advantage of because of it. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 878
Location: "...way down south in the Everglades..." | WYOracer - 2014-11-06 11:13 PM I see a lot of comments about the other factors that say this would be impossible like ground moisture, closed gates etc. but this is the same factors when the poles are set up and pole horses are still advertised off their times on their standard. Hmm?
Agree with this for sure....it's funny my SO is just learning about horses and the whole barrel thing so he was shocked when I told him that the patterns aren't the same. He asked me how I can tell going from pen to pen if my mare's improving. I told him I more or less have to compare a previous trip in that pen under the same producer to get an idea. He told me "you horse people are complicated"...lol
I like the idea myself. It would make it easier to compare from a buying stand point when you may not know the local talent level. Now getting it implemented...that's a whole other story but I do like the concept...good luck! |
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 Expert
Posts: 3782
Location: Gainesville, TX | Haven't said much, just been watching. Personally, I like the idea. :) |
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I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
Location: In the Hills of Texas | Thanks Snazzy for your input.
For those who don't know who Snazzy is, she is one of our finest producers in Texas and is a get it done person. She is also the owner of Triple Vodka. |
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I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
Location: In the Hills of Texas |
It looks like it's rolling pretty well! |
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  Champ
Posts: 19623
Location: Peg-Leg Julia Grimm | I think it's going to be easier to get people to standardize the pattern size than it will be to get them to set the barrels the same way. I know I was shocked to learn the people in the south don't set the barrels in the center of the marker/stake.  |
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