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 BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
  
Location: Bastrop, Texas | This debate will never be resolved, obviously. Like I've said, I'm in no position to judge whether or not this man violated some code of silence, but it seems to me all of this could be avoided with a written pledge to honor things deemed to be classified, lest there be consequences. If you look up the dozens of movies and documentaries that have been made about special forces/special ops, you will see many of these involve specifics operations that took place. The movie, "Zero Dark Thirty" is supposed to be a very factual account of events leading up to and including the killing of UBL. Each of these productions has at least one former Navy Seal, or other Special Ops man as a consultant. I don't recall much outrage directed at any of these fellas. This man risked his life alongside his brothers for about 16 years, and now he has a bunch of Monday-morning quarterbacks condemning him and questioning his motives. I watched this guy interviewed by O'Reilly tonight, and I couldn't help thinking that he made me proud, and what's more, I was bursting with pride knowing that he is one of thousands of fine young men who sacrificed just as much, sometimes a lot more. This notion that O'Neil somehow disclosed secret tactics to our enemy doesn't pass muster to me. I must have missed it. Also, for those of you who didn't watch both hours of the special, you missed it, but he did explicitly explain why he decided to go public, and he identified the exact moment when he made that decision. I found his explanation to be completely plausible. Putting a human faces on our very finest is a very good thing, in my opinion. These are not supermen or monsters, or remorseless killing machines....they are fine, talented, gifted, selfless young men and human beings. I underscore "human beings". I'm not going to condemn him....I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt for that reason....he's a good man, and a human being. I can think of a lot more people in this country more deserving of scorn and condemnation than this nice man. I, for one, would be proud to have him as my son.
Edited by HotbearLVR 2014-11-13 8:31 PM
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 Proud to be Deplorable
Posts: 1929
 
| Well said Scott  | |
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Location: South Dakota | HotbearLVR - 2014-11-13 8:04 PM This debate will never be resolved, obviously. Like I've said, I'm in no position to judge whether or not this man violated some code of silence, but it seems to me all of this could be avoided with a written pledge to honor things deemed to be classified, lest there be consequences. If you look up the dozens of movies and documentaries that have been made about special forces/special ops, you will see many of these involve specifics operations that took place. The movie, "Zero Dark Thirty" is supposed to be a very factual account of events leading up to and including the killing of UBL. Each of these productions has at least one former Navy Seal, or other Special Ops man as a consultant. I don't recall much outrage directed at any of these fellas. This man risked his life alongside his brothers for about 16 years, and now he has a bunch of Monday-morning quarterbacks condemning him and questioning his motives. I watched this guy interviewed by O'Reilly tonight, and I couldn't help thinking that he made me proud, and what's more, I was bursting with pride knowing that he is one of thousands of fine young men who sacrificed just as much, sometimes a lot more. This notion that O'Neil somehow disclosed secret tactics to our enemy doesn't pass muster to me. I must have missed it. Also, for those of you who didn't watch both hours of the special, you missed it, but he did explicitly explain why he decided to go public, and he identified the exact moment when he made that decision. I found his explanation to be completely plausible. Putting a human faces on our very finest is a very good thing, in my opinion. These are not supermen or monsters, or remorseless killing machines....they are fine, talented, gifted, selfless young men and human beings. I underscore "human beings". I'm not going to condemn him....I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt for that reason....he's a good man, and a human being. I can think of a lot more people in this country more deserving of scorn and condemnation than this nice man. I, for one, would be proud to have him as my son.
^^^ Well Said! | |
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  The Original Cyber Bartender
Location: Washington | As we look back when the smoke has cleared and it will take years, I wonder if you will see a man who decided to tell a story, or a man who decided it was his to tell. HUGE difference. | |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | I mean seriously, this O'Neil guy went to great lengths to not take any credit for anything. He said, "this is not about me" and he listed several people who deserve more credit than himself, starting with his team members, the chopper pilots, and the woman who worked for the CIA hunting down UBL. I thought that was pretty classy how he gave the credit to everyone else and emphasized that his being in the right place at the right time was just "the luck of the draw". He also related how the fella who went up to the 3rd floor ahead of him grabbed two women, threw them in a pile, and covered them with his body, because he wanted to take the hit for his team if these women were wearing a suicide vest. That's just amazing...the guy didn't hesitate to sacrifice his body for the team and the mission. No doubt O'Neil would have been willing to make the same sacrifice. He said himself, in fact, that he was certain this was a one way mission.....so this doesn't sound like some self serving, greedy man who betrayed his brothers or his country. I don't see how anyone can draw that conclusion. As far as I'm concerned he and others like him deserve a break. We are a sick twisted society in this country when we idolize professional athletes, overlook their own greed, and then turn around and assume guys like O'Neil have some self serving agenda.
I hope he and his brothers have a happy serene life of peace and prosperity. | |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 385
Location: Texas Big Country | ridejg - 2014-11-13 8:49 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-11-13 8:04 PM This debate will never be resolved, obviously. Like I've said, I'm in no position to judge whether or not this man violated some code of silence, but it seems to me all of this could be avoided with a written pledge to honor things deemed to be classified, lest there be consequences. If you look up the dozens of movies and documentaries that have been made about special forces/special ops, you will see many of these involve specifics operations that took place. The movie, "Zero Dark Thirty" is supposed to be a very factual account of events leading up to and including the killing of UBL. Each of these productions has at least one former Navy Seal, or other Special Ops man as a consultant. I don't recall much outrage directed at any of these fellas. This man risked his life alongside his brothers for about 16 years, and now he has a bunch of Monday-morning quarterbacks condemning him and questioning his motives. I watched this guy interviewed by O'Reilly tonight, and I couldn't help thinking that he made me proud, and what's more, I was bursting with pride knowing that he is one of thousands of fine young men who sacrificed just as much, sometimes a lot more. This notion that O'Neil somehow disclosed secret tactics to our enemy doesn't pass muster to me. I must have missed it. Also, for those of you who didn't watch both hours of the special, you missed it, but he did explicitly explain why he decided to go public, and he identified the exact moment when he made that decision. I found his explanation to be completely plausible. Putting a human faces on our very finest is a very good thing, in my opinion. These are not supermen or monsters, or remorseless killing machines....they are fine, talented, gifted, selfless young men and human beings. I underscore "human beings". I'm not going to condemn him....I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt for that reason....he's a good man, and a human being. I can think of a lot more people in this country more deserving of scorn and condemnation than this nice man. I, for one, would be proud to have him as my son. ^^^ Well Said!
Edited by crossarrowk 2014-11-13 9:10 PM
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 385
Location: Texas Big Country | HotbearLVR - 2014-11-13 9:01 PM I mean seriously, this O'Neil guy went to great lengths to not take any credit for anything. He said, "this is not about me" and he listed several people who deserve more credit than himself, starting with his team members, the chopper pilots, and the woman who worked for the CIA hunting down UBL. I thought that was pretty classy how he gave the credit to everyone else and emphasized that his being in the right place at the right time was just "the luck of the draw". He also related how the fella who went up to the 3rd floor ahead of him grabbed two women, threw them in a pile, and covered them with his body, because he wanted to take the hit for his team if these women were wearing a suicide vest. That's just amazing...the guy didn't hesitate to sacrifice his body for the team and the mission. No doubt O'Neil would have been willing to make the same sacrifice. He said himself, in fact, that he was certain this was a one way mission.....so this doesn't sound like some self serving, greedy man who betrayed his brothers or his country. I don't see how anyone can draw that conclusion. As far as I'm concerned he and others like him deserve a break. We are a sick twisted society in this country when we idolize professional athletes, overlook their own greed, and then turn around and assume guys like O'Neil have some self serving agenda. I hope he and his brothers have a happy serene life of peace and prosperity.
GReat follow-up. I second that too!  Especially the professional athlete part, gimme a break, those prima donnas roll on the floor when they get a hangnail trying to "draw a foul".
Best example of a real hero in a long long time. | |
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The Original Cyber Bartender
Location: Washington | crossarrowk - 2014-11-13 7:08 PM ridejg - 2014-11-13 8:49 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-11-13 8:04 PM This debate will never be resolved, obviously. Like I've said, I'm in no position to judge whether or not this man violated some code of silence, but it seems to me all of this could be avoided with a written pledge to honor things deemed to be classified, lest there be consequences. If you look up the dozens of movies and documentaries that have been made about special forces/special ops, you will see many of these involve specifics operations that took place. The movie, "Zero Dark Thirty" is supposed to be a very factual account of events leading up to and including the killing of UBL. Each of these productions has at least one former Navy Seal, or other Special Ops man as a consultant. I don't recall much outrage directed at any of these fellas. This man risked his life alongside his brothers for about 16 years, and now he has a bunch of Monday-morning quarterbacks condemning him and questioning his motives. I watched this guy interviewed by O'Reilly tonight, and I couldn't help thinking that he made me proud, and what's more, I was bursting with pride knowing that he is one of thousands of fine young men who sacrificed just as much, sometimes a lot more. This notion that O'Neil somehow disclosed secret tactics to our enemy doesn't pass muster to me. I must have missed it. Also, for those of you who didn't watch both hours of the special, you missed it, but he did explicitly explain why he decided to go public, and he identified the exact moment when he made that decision. I found his explanation to be completely plausible. Putting a human faces on our very finest is a very good thing, in my opinion. These are not supermen or monsters, or remorseless killing machines....they are fine, talented, gifted, selfless young men and human beings. I underscore "human beings". I'm not going to condemn him....I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt for that reason....he's a good man, and a human being. I can think of a lot more people in this country more deserving of scorn and condemnation than this nice man. I, for one, would be proud to have him as my son. ^^^ Well Said!
What's the number? | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 385
Location: Texas Big Country | fatchance - 2014-11-13 9:17 PM crossarrowk - 2014-11-13 7:08 PM ridejg - 2014-11-13 8:49 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-11-13 8:04 PM This debate will never be resolved, obviously. Like I've said, I'm in no position to judge whether or not this man violated some code of silence, but it seems to me all of this could be avoided with a written pledge to honor things deemed to be classified, lest there be consequences. If you look up the dozens of movies and documentaries that have been made about special forces/special ops, you will see many of these involve specifics operations that took place. The movie, "Zero Dark Thirty" is supposed to be a very factual account of events leading up to and including the killing of UBL. Each of these productions has at least one former Navy Seal, or other Special Ops man as a consultant. I don't recall much outrage directed at any of these fellas. This man risked his life alongside his brothers for about 16 years, and now he has a bunch of Monday-morning quarterbacks condemning him and questioning his motives. I watched this guy interviewed by O'Reilly tonight, and I couldn't help thinking that he made me proud, and what's more, I was bursting with pride knowing that he is one of thousands of fine young men who sacrificed just as much, sometimes a lot more. This notion that O'Neil somehow disclosed secret tactics to our enemy doesn't pass muster to me. I must have missed it. Also, for those of you who didn't watch both hours of the special, you missed it, but he did explicitly explain why he decided to go public, and he identified the exact moment when he made that decision. I found his explanation to be completely plausible. Putting a human faces on our very finest is a very good thing, in my opinion. These are not supermen or monsters, or remorseless killing machines....they are fine, talented, gifted, selfless young men and human beings. I underscore "human beings". I'm not going to condemn him....I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt for that reason....he's a good man, and a human being. I can think of a lot more people in this country more deserving of scorn and condemnation than this nice man. I, for one, would be proud to have him as my son. ^^^ Well Said!What's the number?
Edited by crossarrowk 2014-11-13 9:23 PM
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Regular
Posts: 61
| Lobo - 2014-11-13 10:13 AM
You can be pissed off all you want. Those of us who have had close relations with the military don't need to see the show. We know he stepped over the line by talking and writing about his experience. You keep your mouth shut and do not profit from it.
Of course, that would not satisfy the American public's thirst to know everything. Sometimes, it's just not none of your business.
It made for great Fox ratings. 
I call BS! TONS and I mean tons, of retired special forces guys and snipers have written books about their exploits. Once they are done I see nothing wrong with it as long as they aren't divulging secrets. | |
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Regular
Posts: 61
| HotbearLVR - 2014-11-13 8:04 PM
This debate will never be resolved, obviously. Like I've said, I'm in no position to judge whether or not this man violated some code of silence, but it seems to me all of this could be avoided with a written pledge to honor things deemed to be classified, lest there be consequences. If you look up the dozens of movies and documentaries that have been made about special forces/special ops, you will see many of these involve specifics operations that took place. The movie, "Zero Dark Thirty" is supposed to be a very factual account of events leading up to and including the killing of UBL. Each of these productions has at least one former Navy Seal, or other Special Ops man as a consultant. I don't recall much outrage directed at any of these fellas. This man risked his life alongside his brothers for about 16 years, and now he has a bunch of Monday-morning quarterbacks condemning him and questioning his motives. I watched this guy interviewed by O'Reilly tonight, and I couldn't help thinking that he made me proud, and what's more, I was bursting with pride knowing that he is one of thousands of fine young men who sacrificed just as much, sometimes a lot more. This notion that O'Neil somehow disclosed secret tactics to our enemy doesn't pass muster to me. I must have missed it. Also, for those of you who didn't watch both hours of the special, you missed it, but he did explicitly explain why he decided to go public, and he identified the exact moment when he made that decision. I found his explanation to be completely plausible. Putting a human faces on our very finest is a very good thing, in my opinion. These are not supermen or monsters, or remorseless killing machines....they are fine, talented, gifted, selfless young men and human beings. I underscore "human beings". I'm not going to condemn him....I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt for that reason....he's a good man, and a human being. I can think of a lot more people in this country more deserving of scorn and condemnation than this nice man. I, for one, would be proud to have him as my son.
I agree. He seems like a stand up guy. And if he makes a million in the process, good for him. He could just as easily have been killed numerous times. And i guarentee he didn't go into the SEALS thinking about making a bunch of money. | |
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 Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| I find it hard to find the words of how incredibly amazing it is that we have these men and women who are willing to go on these missions where they know they will most likely not return and all for our country. I am thankful for them. | |
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 Hawty & Nawty
Posts: 20424
| I'm incredibly thankful. I'm not knocking the guy for willing to do a job most of us wouldn't dare. | |
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Veteran
Posts: 180
| From what I understand the First guy (point man) is the one that should get all the credit. He spoke Arabic and killed Osama's brother and then shot at Osama - this is what both Matt Bissonnette and the O'Neil guy said.
Matt Bissonnette's version: When he walked in the room Osama was on the floor (probably from the point man's shot up the stairs) and two women were standing over him. The point man then grabbed both women, took them away and jumped on them bc they thought they had suicide vests. Then Matt and another guy shot Obama some more.
O'Neills story: Osama was standing behind a women, then the pointman took two women away and jumped on them. Then he shot Osama in the head while he was standing behind his wife. Don't you think that if this happened, the wife would've gone crazy and he would've mentioned this? He never mentioned her again, he just said he stood over Osama.
I'm sorry, but I don't believe O'Neills story. I believe Bissonnett's...he was shot before Bissonnette/O'Neill got into the room and then those guys finished him off. I respect the point man. HE did the work, AND kept the SEAL honor code, and truly left it to a TEAM being responsible by not trying to get additional attention towards himself. | |
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 Famous for Not Complaining
Posts: 8848
Location: Broxton, Ga | HotbearLVR - 2014-11-12 9:04 PM This debate will never be resolved, obviously. Like I've said, I'm in no position to judge whether or not this man violated some code of silence, but it seems to me all of this could be avoided with a written pledge to honor things deemed to be classified, lest there be consequences. If you look up the dozens of movies and documentaries that have been made about special forces/special ops, you will see many of these involve specifics operations that took place. The movie, "Zero Dark Thirty" is supposed to be a very factual account of events leading up to and including the killing of UBL. Each of these productions has at least one former Navy Seal, or other Special Ops man as a consultant. I don't recall much outrage directed at any of these fellas. This man risked his life alongside his brothers for about 16 years, and now he has a bunch of Monday-morning quarterbacks condemning him and questioning his motives. I watched this guy interviewed by O'Reilly tonight, and I couldn't help thinking that he made me proud, and what's more, I was bursting with pride knowing that he is one of thousands of fine young men who sacrificed just as much, sometimes a lot more. This notion that O'Neil somehow disclosed secret tactics to our enemy doesn't pass muster to me. I must have missed it. Also, for those of you who didn't watch both hours of the special, you missed it, but he did explicitly explain why he decided to go public, and he identified the exact moment when he made that decision. I found his explanation to be completely plausible. Putting a human faces on our very finest is a very good thing, in my opinion. These are not supermen or monsters, or remorseless killing machines....they are fine, talented, gifted, selfless young men and human beings. I underscore "human beings". I'm not going to condemn him....I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt for that reason....he's a good man, and a human being. I can think of a lot more people in this country more deserving of scorn and condemnation than this nice man. I, for one, would be proud to have him as my son.
Since we no longer have a "like" button............I am liking this.......... | |
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 BHW's Lance Armstrong 
Posts: 11134
Location: Somewhere between S@%&# stirrer and Saint | I once knew a Navajo Code talker from WWII. When he was in the army, they were told never to talk about their mission. Even, after it was declassified, he would not talk about it because he was told not to talk about it. | |
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 Shipwrecked and Flat Out Zapped
Posts: 16390
Location: DUMPING CATS AND PIGS IN TEXAS :) | No one needs to know that O'neil was the one that claims to have pulled the trigger. He was part of Seal Team 6. The difference in stories between he and Bisonette pulls doubt into the public whatever his reasons are. I, personally, didn't want to doubt them. I want to believe that they are a team of perfect warriors. Now I doubt both of their motives. We see two brothers with different stories and the point man sounds like the baddest ass of them all. I doubt we'll ever hear from him.
Don't ever think that I'm not the first one in line to support our Special Forces. I worked with the Rangers at Hunter Army Airfield as a nurse following my active duty stint for a few years. I treated several SEALS passing through there. They have my highest respect. The absolute highest. So, don't think I'm condeming one. O'neil has my respect. I'm sure he's a great guy and he's made the sacrifices that most of us haven't. He still should have kept his mouth shut. All of the books and movies surfacing about these special missions should not be either. The stories are told by one person's account of events and or glammed up for entertainment value. I doubt that the events in the Marcus Lutrell movie happened exactly as you see in the movie...exactly that way.....it was a movie. You are seeing the same thing with Bissonette and O'neil. Which story is true? Would the point man tell it different? | |
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Shipwrecked and Flat Out Zapped
Posts: 16390
Location: DUMPING CATS AND PIGS IN TEXAS :) | Douglas J Gordon - 2014-11-14 9:01 AM I once knew a Navajo Code talker from WWII. When he was in the army, they were told never to talk about their mission. Even, after it was declassified, he would not talk about it because he was told not to talk about it.
I know a hundred guys that would never talk, even if asked point blank. They are told to never talk. | |
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 Expert
Posts: 1857
| I am surrounded by SF's in my family, active and retired. I've asked thoughts about this guys actions and what few words they would say was that their whole teams and guys they work with thought it was selfish and stupid of him. Not only did he put himself in danger but his family. He did take an oath and he broke it. Officers and government people make money off writing books about SOF missions but that doesn't make it ok for him to speak out. There's many people in the community that are pist because it makes the SEALs look like loudmouths. Shame on him for looking for recognition other than with his team mates and brothers that were right there with him. He turned a WE into an I. | |
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"Heck's Coming With Me"
Posts: 10797
Location: Kansas | ld3 - 2014-11-14 8:41 AM From what I understand the First guy (point man) is the one that should get all the credit. He spoke Arabic and killed Osama's brother and then shot at Osama - this is what both Matt Bissonnette and the O'Neil guy said. Matt Bissonnette's version: When he walked in the room Osama was on the floor (probably from the point man's shot up the stairs) and two women were standing over him. The point man then grabbed both women, took them away and jumped on them bc they thought they had suicide vests. Then Matt and another guy shot Obama some more. O'Neills story: Osama was standing behind a women, then the pointman took two women away and jumped on them. Then he shot Osama in the head while he was standing behind his wife. Don't you think that if this happened, the wife would've gone crazy and he would've mentioned this? He never mentioned her again, he just said he stood over Osama. I'm sorry, but I don't believe O'Neills story. I believe Bissonnett's...he was shot before Bissonnette/O'Neill got into the room and then those guys finished him off. I respect the point man. HE did the work, AND kept the SEAL honor code, and truly left it to a TEAM being responsible by not trying to get additional attention towards himself.
O'Neill did mention this on The O'Reilly Factor last night. He said the woman UBL hid behind was screaming when they shot him. There was also a two year old child in the room to contend with.
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