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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 316
| I will probably get flamed for this but I agreed with this decision. He was out of line hitting hit horse with that much force that many times. Yes his horse may have set up on him but he did get out very late on a fast calf. And girls do over and under their barrel horses but not with that much force and besides the fact he is a man. Ithink that Tuf has been up and down the rodeo trail enough to know that you don't do that at a rodeo in the pen on a huge stage such as Calgary. People then complain that they do it cause PETA is there and yes they are there but they can get this event shut down and would we rather have that or stricter rulers? | |
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 I'm Cooler Offline
Posts: 6387
  
Location: Pacific Northwest | hammer_time - 2015-07-09 9:49 PM
I thought it looked at tad excessive but his horse wasn't running in there. But I agree what you're saying about barrel racers. If he had whipped his horse walking back to the gate That would have been poor sportsmanship, but he didn't.
I thought it looked excessive because his facial expression looked angry. And I'm a Tuf Cooper fan and I know its frustrating when your horse isn't working in that pressure-moment when they NEED to be working. I don't think it was something he needed to be DQed over but Calgary has a LOT of animal activist problems so maybe thats why. I DO think it warranted being fined or warned because it was excessive.
As for comparing it to barrel racing, I've seen plenty of barrel racers that I thought SHOULD be DQed for excessively whipping their horses or slamming them into the ground and yanking them backwards at the end of a run because they were mad. Or whipping the entire way through a run. If you have to "hustle" your horse so much that it needs "encouragement" every other stride maybe it needs a different job.
Edited by livexlovexrodeo 2015-07-10 12:54 PM
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 Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
 
| livexlovexrodeo - 2015-07-10 12:45 PM
hammer_time - 2015-07-09 9:49 PM
I thought it looked at tad excessive but his horse wasn't running in there. But I agree what you're saying about barrel racers. If he had whipped his horse walking back to the gate That would have been poor sportsmanship, but he didn't.
I thought it looked excessive because his facial expression looked angry. And I'm a Tuf Cooper fan and I know its frustrating when your horse isn't working in that pressure-moment when they NEED to be working. I don't think it was something he needed to be DQed over but Calgary has a LOT of animal activist problems so maybe thats why. I DO think it warranted being fined or warned because it was excessive.
As for comparing it to barrel racing, I've seen plenty of barrel racers that I thought SHOULD be DQed for excessively whipping their horses or slamming them into the ground and yanking them backwards at the end of a run because they were mad. Or whipping the entire way through a run. If you have to "hustle" your horse so much that it needs "encouragement" every other stride maybe it needs a different job.
I agree... I have seen it much worse in barrel racers.
I think his expression is also being misread a bit. Google his runs, you will see he makes that teeth grit, determined look every run. Honestly too, i doubt he hit the horse all that hard... and I only say that as the ropes arent really meant for over and undering. Maybe with how soft their ropes are it was easier to use in that manner but theres a lot of assumptions bein said right now without being there... seeing any damage. If he hit his horse hard that many times, its typically going to have welts. And maybe it did, none of us know... I see girls over under all the way to second, around second, all the way to third and all the way home. I've never even thought count them.
I am NOT saying it was a good idea and that it was the right place.. but I also dont agree that these animal activists should be bullying us. JMO | |
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Expert
Posts: 1611
| Well I'm not a big rodeo person. When we go i cringe at the way the calfs get handled. I'd die if someone handled ours that way in my sight! LOL Yea they go to market but while their at our house they are largely pets and treated as such...they might even get a horse treat or five.
Did he hurt the horse? No. But he excessively whipped with force on one of rodeo's biggest stages during a sport that most people want to see phased out anyway. I just wonder if Calgary has warned the contestants that things will be more strict this year?
Everyone should watch their Ps and Qs when they out on the big stage. You do your whipping out behind the wood shed. | |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| I haven't read all the posts, but for the people who think he shouldn't have been disqualified.
Where do you draw the line?
7 over and under in the calf roping?
The difference between barrel racing and other events, are the rules, barrel racers have their own rules, WPRA.
If this wasn't Tuf Cooper, this wouldn't be an issue.
I do think it was classy that Tuff accepted the ruling, it doesn't sound like he challenged it, and has not bad mouthed Calgary, the association, or animal activists. | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 557
Location: Kansas and loving it | Two horses died in the chuck wagon races, no Dq there. Just fines. I think he should have been fined and not a dq. As far as how many times to urge their horse forward? I don't know, I don't rope. However, I do agree with the jerk down rule for the calves. Which I believe is a dq. | |
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  Witty Enough
Posts: 2954
Location: CTX | This was just posted on the ERA facebook page:
 An open letter from the owners of Tuf Cooper's amazing calf horse, Topaz. ?#ERAAthletes?  Please consider this an open letter to anyone who may have any concern about how Tuf Cooper treats animals. First, let me say that I consider myself an expert o...n how Tuf Cooper treats his horses and it is from that perspective I speak about the “judgement” of the Canadian officials in Calgary that Tuf somehow abused a horse during a roping event at their rodeo. Sheila and I own Topaz, Tuf’s main rope horse. We have owned her since she was a two year old. From the day we acquired her, we knew she was something very special and that she deserved the best care and training available. We have spared no time and no expense to make sure she has been well cared for. For the past six years, she has been in training and under the daily care of James Barton of Blufdale, Texas. James and his wife, Emily, have trained and cared for some fifty of our performance horses over the past ten years and we know, first hand, they share our desire that our horses be treated especially well. It stands to reason, then, that Topaz would be at the Bartons where she has been for the past six years and during which time, James has shown Topaz in AQHA events around the US.
Sheila and I, individually and under our business, Circle Star Ranch, are current members of the AQHA, NCHA, NRCHA, and Texas Cattle Raisers Assn. We have raised and shown horses for the past twenty years. We have a world-wide reputation for world class Western performance horses. Our horses have won several world titles and we have have sold horses to buyers here in the US as well as New Zealand, Canada, Panama, Brazil, Columbia, and Argentina.
Because we have been very concerned with how our horses are treated by their trainers and exhibitors, in the past twenty years, we have allowed only three people to train, ride, and exhibit them - And one of those three is Tuf Cooper.
We have been extremely close to Topaz, her travels with Tuf, and his showing her showing in pro rodeo events. At no time have we ever seen any evidence of any mis- or mal-treatment of Topaz - and neither has her vet, Sonny Seale, who performs periodic physical examinations of her. James has traveled with Tuf and Topaz; Sheila and I have been “behind the scenes" at many events where Tuf rode Topaz. And after Tuf shows Topaz, he returns her to the Barton’s in Blufdale. We would know by her physical, mental, and emotional condition if Tuf was not a good steward of our prize, Topaz.
James, I have known Tuf, since you introduced us three years ago. Never have I met anyone, much less a 20 something, especially one with his successes, who is as God-loving, humble,respectful, grateful, well-grounded and caring as Tuf; he has a very tender heart and love for all things, especially animals. Indeed, Tuf is a living role model, in the truest sense of the concept, to any young person, male or female. Tuf truly is an amazing young man and, at 70 years old, I am proud, very proud, to consider him a friend and he can ride, show, and keep any of our horses, anytime!
Cecil Rhodes
Circle Star Ranch | |
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| astreakinchic - 2015-07-10 1:24 PM
Well I'm not a big rodeo person. When we go i cringe at the way the calfs get handled. I'd die if someone handled ours that way in my sight! LOL Yea they go to market but while their at our house they are largely pets and treated as such...they might even get a horse treat or five.
Did he hurt the horse? No. But he excessively whipped with force on one of rodeo's biggest stages during a sport that most people want to see phased out anyway. I just wonder if Calgary has warned the contestants that things will be more strict this year?
Everyone should watch their Ps and Qs when they out on the big stage. You do your whipping out behind the wood shed.
Taking your horse out to the shed to whip it means he's getting whipped for something he has already forgotten about. Doesn't work. If I did that my daddy would have whipped me. I was always taught you discipline immediately or they don't understand when you do it later. Waiting until you think no one is watching to get after your horse is abuse to me. | |
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 Chicken Chick
Posts: 3562
Location: Texas | If you have to do it behind the wood shed, you probably shouldn't do it. | |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | pinx05 - 2015-07-10 2:09 PM If you have to do it behind the wood shed, you probably shouldn't do it.
I think she meant correct or tune one in a practice pen... Not during a rodeo perf
not necessarily that anyone should go beat their horse after the rodeo lol | |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| rockette - 2015-07-10 1:35 PM
Two horses died in the chuck wagon races, no Dq there. Just fines. I think he should have been fined and not a dq. As far as how many times to urge their horse forward? I don't know, I don't rope. However, I do agree with the jerk down rule for the calves. Which I believe is a dq.
The chuckwagons have their own rules, and there is a vet who is supposed to check each horse the day of the race (this was my understanding)
As for the horses breaking a leg on the track, I did read they were doing an internal investigation, and I hope they look at the vet to ensure he/she is doing their job and if they have the credentials.
I know for a fact some vets cannot read X-rays, I had one with a spiral fracture that a local vet cleared for me to ride, I sent the X-rays to my regular vet who identified a problem.
Also xray machines are not created equal
Also some fractures take a week to two after injury to show up on an xray
So I do understand how these horses could go undetected, I had two horses with cannon bone fractures, both were sound, with minimal swelling. | |
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Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
| cheryl makofka - 2015-07-10 1:27 PM
I haven't read all the posts, but for the people who think he shouldn't have been disqualified.
Where do you draw the line?
7 over and under in the calf roping?
The difference between barrel racing and other events, are the rules, barrel racers have their own rules, WPRA.
If this wasn't Tuf Cooper, this wouldn't be an issue.
I do think it was classy that Tuff accepted the ruling, it doesn't sound like he challenged it, and has not bad mouthed Calgary, the association, or animal activists.
So do you suggest we take away all whips? Theres no perfect "draw the line." If the horse was showing injury, then thats excessive. We have a local organization here where only leather bats are allowed... maybe rodeo needs to go that route... cant hit your horse in front of the shoulder, only use leather bats, etc etc...
This wasnt about rules... this was about maltreatment of an animal which should be universal to all events. Therefore, it is the same as barrel racing.
I also agree that Tuf is a classy person. I have met him and one of the most pleasant people I have ever spoken to. Fine, maybe... DQ? I think thats too far. | |
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 Fact Checker
Posts: 16575
Location: Displaced Iowegian | cranky B4 10am - 2015-07-10 1:55 PM This was just posted on the ERA facebook page:
An open letter from the owners of Tuf Cooper's amazing calf horse, Topaz. ?#ERAAthletes?
Please consider this an open letter to anyone who may have any concern about how Tuf Cooper treats animals.
First, let me say that I consider myself an expert o...n how Tuf Cooper treats his horses and it is from that perspective I speak about the “judgement” of the Canadian officials in Calgary that Tuf somehow abused a horse during a roping event at their rodeo.
Sheila and I own Topaz, Tuf’s main rope horse. We have owned her since she was a two year old. From the day we acquired her, we knew she was something very special and that she deserved the best care and training available. We have spared no time and no expense to make sure she has been well cared for. For the past six years, she has been in training and under the daily care of James Barton of Blufdale, Texas. James and his wife, Emily, have trained and cared for some fifty of our performance horses over the past ten years and we know, first hand, they share our desire that our horses be treated especially well. It stands to reason, then, that Topaz would be at the Bartons where she has been for the past six years and during which time, James has shown Topaz in AQHA events around the US.
Sheila and I, individually and under our business, Circle Star Ranch, are current members of the AQHA, NCHA, NRCHA, and Texas Cattle Raisers Assn. We have raised and shown horses for the past twenty years. We have a world-wide reputation for world class Western performance horses. Our horses have won several world titles and we have have sold horses to buyers here in the US as well as New Zealand, Canada, Panama, Brazil, Columbia, and Argentina.
Because we have been very concerned with how our horses are treated by their trainers and exhibitors, in the past twenty years, we have allowed only three people to train, ride, and exhibit them - And one of those three is Tuf Cooper.
We have been extremely close to Topaz, her travels with Tuf, and his showing her showing in pro rodeo events. At no time have we ever seen any evidence of any mis- or mal-treatment of Topaz - and neither has her vet, Sonny Seale, who performs periodic physical examinations of her. James has traveled with Tuf and Topaz; Sheila and I have been “behind the scenes" at many events where Tuf rode Topaz. And after Tuf shows Topaz, he returns her to the Barton’s in Blufdale. We would know by her physical, mental, and emotional condition if Tuf was not a good steward of our prize, Topaz.
James, I have known Tuf, since you introduced us three years ago. Never have I met anyone, much less a 20 something, especially one with his successes, who is as God-loving, humble,respectful, grateful, well-grounded and caring as Tuf; he has a very tender heart and love for all things, especially animals. Indeed, Tuf is a living role model, in the truest sense of the concept, to any young person, male or female. Tuf truly is an amazing young man and, at 70 years old, I am proud, very proud, to consider him a friend and he can ride, show, and keep any of our horses, anytime!
Cecil Rhodes
Circle Star Ranch
That's a very nice letter and I am certain that none of us think, Tuf is a "bad" person......But he happens to be a person who used BAD JUDGEMENT in the rodeo pen. One or two whack is urging....three or four is correction.....five and SIX are being PO'd and got him DQ'd......Rules are rules and are at the Judge's discretion......You don't see HIM whining about it do you....so maybe you all should quit whining and kabitzing and move on..... | |
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 You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | I just think of it as.. its an invitational rodeo with a huge payout. they have their own rules, you play by them. Stinks Tuff got DQed but, it's a privilege to make it to Calgary and lots of people would love for the chance to run for $100,000.
as far as Callie.. its in the WPRA rules you can't circle, spin, or completely turn around when setting up, but it should have been a fine, not a DQ, which is why they fixed it. | |
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 Mature beyond Years
Posts: 10780
Location: North of the 49th Parallel | rockette - 2015-07-10 11:35 AM Two horses died in the chuck wagon races, no Dq there. Just fines. I think he should have been fined and not a dq. As far as how many times to urge their horse forward? I don't know, I don't rope. However, I do agree with the jerk down rule for the calves. Which I believe is a dq.
There's some mega fines in the chucks for drivers who cause a wreck or it leads to the death of a horse. | |
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 The Original Cyber Bartender
Location: Washington | He wasn't riding their beloved Topaz when this happened. Just sayin... | |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| stayceem - 2015-07-10 2:28 PM
cheryl makofka - 2015-07-10 1:27 PM
I haven't read all the posts, but for the people who think he shouldn't have been disqualified.
Where do you draw the line?
7 over and under in the calf roping?
The difference between barrel racing and other events, are the rules, barrel racers have their own rules, WPRA.
If this wasn't Tuf Cooper, this wouldn't be an issue.
I do think it was classy that Tuff accepted the ruling, it doesn't sound like he challenged it, and has not bad mouthed Calgary, the association, or animal activists.
So do you suggest we take away all whips? Theres no perfect "draw the line." If the horse was showing injury, then thats excessive. We have a local organization here where only leather bats are allowed... maybe rodeo needs to go that route... cant hit your horse in front of the shoulder, only use leather bats, etc etc...
This wasnt about rules... this was about maltreatment of an animal which should be universal to all events. Therefore, it is the same as barrel racing.
I also agree that Tuf is a classy person. I have met him and one of the most pleasant people I have ever spoken to. Fine, maybe... DQ? I think thats too far.
It is a rule excessive use of force, which is subjective, but all the judges, and committee members agreed he used excessive force.
As I said this ruling has nothing to do with barrel racing, as each has their own set of rules.
Calgary stampede, all events except barrels
Wpra only barrels
Edited to add the rules are in place and enforced so animals are not injured, it should never get to the point where horses are injured due to excessive whipping to be disqualified.
To me if you are excessively whipping your horse to the point of injury, you shouldn't own animals
Edited by cheryl makofka 2015-07-10 2:50 PM
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Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
| cheryl makofka - 2015-07-10 2:47 PM
stayceem - 2015-07-10 2:28 PM
cheryl makofka - 2015-07-10 1:27 PM
I haven't read all the posts, but for the people who think he shouldn't have been disqualified.
Where do you draw the line?
7 over and under in the calf roping?
The difference between barrel racing and other events, are the rules, barrel racers have their own rules, WPRA.
If this wasn't Tuf Cooper, this wouldn't be an issue.
I do think it was classy that Tuff accepted the ruling, it doesn't sound like he challenged it, and has not bad mouthed Calgary, the association, or animal activists.
So do you suggest we take away all whips? Theres no perfect "draw the line." If the horse was showing injury, then thats excessive. We have a local organization here where only leather bats are allowed... maybe rodeo needs to go that route... cant hit your horse in front of the shoulder, only use leather bats, etc etc...
This wasnt about rules... this was about maltreatment of an animal which should be universal to all events. Therefore, it is the same as barrel racing.
I also agree that Tuf is a classy person. I have met him and one of the most pleasant people I have ever spoken to. Fine, maybe... DQ? I think thats too far.
It is a rule excessive use of force, which is subjective, but all the judges, and committee members agreed he used excessive force.
As I said this ruling has nothing to do with barrel racing, as each has their own set of rules.
Calgary stampede, all events except barrels
Wpra only barrels
Edited to add the rules are in place and enforced so animals are not injured, it should never get to the point where horses are injured due to excessive whipping to be disqualified.
To me if you are excessively whipping your horse to the point of injury, you shouldn't own animals
I am not disagreeing with you... it shouldnt ever come to that point but theres a lot of things it shouldnt come to.
My point is that if they are truly looking out for the welfare of their animals, it shouldnt be governed for only certain events. If you dont want excessive whipping, that should be in ALL events. Thats my opinion and why i disagree with the situation.
I get whats done is done, Tuf has handled it graciously... the Topaz letter is just showing support for how he DOES treat his animals as his name is being dragged through the mud.
I thought they own Rio (I believe thats who he was on???) ... so it wouldnt really be very impactful if his Dad wrote a letter in his defense.
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 557
Location: Kansas and loving it | bccanchaser16 - 2015-07-10 2:40 PM
rockette - 2015-07-10 11:35 AM Two horses died in the chuck wagon races, no Dq there. Just fines. I think he should have been fined and not a dq. As far as how many times to urge their horse forward? I don't know, I don't rope. However, I do agree with the jerk down rule for the calves. Which I believe is a dq.
There's some mega fines in the chucks for drivers who cause a wreck or it leads to the death of a horse.
But not disqualified, which is my point. | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 557
Location: Kansas and loving it | I am stating as to why I don't feel Tuf should have been a dq. I was using the chuck wagon races as a comparison. I am on no committee, this is only my opinion. | |
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