Cindy Hamilton - 2015-07-17 11:15 AM  AMEN....Abortion is the holy grail of the left and trumps EVERYTHING...oh yeah, but they are anti death penalty...huh???...just shows how screwed up they all are...

Nevertooold - 2015-07-17 1:29 PM Heartswideopen...That was an awesome read. 



This part sure explains a lot of why this country is so screwed up.



If we flip the switch as a nation which has exported its industrial sector and increasingly demands HIGH skilled labor, with abortion ==> high artificial mortality ==> increased birth rate among young women, we land up with low-skilled laborers producing more children, while high skilled laborers have fewer children, greater income, and less economic burden. Again, this is empirically backed. The more education a female receives, the LESS children she will have.  In this country it is currently easier to have children and obtain a welfare check than it is to go to college. Thus,  If we live in a service-based economy such as the U.S. (and most developed nations) and also have an aging population, by allowing for abortion, we increase the rate at which women will continue to have MORE children and LESS education. Thus, by allowing for a large population of low skilled labor, and conversely a low population of high skilled labor, we have a recipe for economic disaster and we further stratify the social classes and increase the income gap.

 

oija - 2015-07-16 11:56 AM No I think she would come across as callous even without eating. I still find the meal irrelevant. I think it is being overplayed only because people feel so emotional about this topic. Abortion and her attitude is what matters, not her meal.

Cindy Hamilton - 2015-07-17 10:28 AM


I didn't have time to read all of the posts, but if you don't get emotional over this topic and feel like it's being overplayed, you are beyond help.....I know there are people out there who can remain emotionless in the face of horrible tragedies, but they aren't the kind I want to know....there's something very cold about your acceptance of the circumstances surrounding this event, and I fear it's the same feeling that is overtaking the country and going to send us down the tubes....

Bear - 2015-07-16 11:55 AM


Handing out condoms is a cheap ploy....a ruse. Condoms are cheap.....go out and buy your own condoms. They hand out condoms so people can talk about how wonderful they are. It's a marketing tool. For that matter, I think birth control, in general, ought to be the responsibility of those who decide they need it. Why should hard working taxpayers be expected to provide free birth control? That money would be much better spent educating idiots on basic communication skills like grammar and spelling, because it would benefit society in general. If someone decides they want to have an abortion, that is their right. They are the ones who will have to live with it. They should also be fully aware that they are terminating life. They should be aware that those unborn babies can perceive pain much earlier than once thought. They should also be aware of how abortions are performed, particularly late term abortions. They need to know that the baby squirms and writhes as the baby is crushed, dismembered, mascerated, and pithed. They need to realize that there's a significant chance they will have to deal with the psychological after effects, possibly for a very long time.

What I found to be most disturbing about this video was how the woman callously described the gruesome technical details while eating. If you don't find that at least a little disturbing, then I have to wonder about you.
For 18 years, as part of a transplant team, I participated in organ procurement on organ donors. Even though their hearts were beating and they looked very much alive, they were brain dead. Without fail, the procedure was conducted as a very solemn procedure. Our behavior and conduct in that operating room was dignified and everyone felt gratified that some family was willing to donate the organs of a loved one. It really is a sight to behold, and nothing illustrates the better angels of our nature, as human beings. Deep inside, in a certain way, we also viewed it as a joyous occasion, because we knew the organs we harvested could save countless lives. The family also found consolation in knowing that their loved one was a hero in death to many people. That provided lasting comfort to them, in an otherwise very sad day. This is why I was appalled with the woman in the video. We conducted ourselves with dignity and respect. We didn't play our usual music, and nobody told jokes. We behaved as if we were under the watchful eye of that donor's family. I'll never forget the imagery of a 12 year old boy who was a donor. As I finished removing his heart, I looked over the drapes at his face, and over at his arm on the IV board. He had fallen out of a treehouse earlier that day. He still had Popsicle stains around his pink lips. He had a bandaid on his hand from a scrape he sustained probably several days earlier. He still had a washable bubblegum tattoo of a cartoon figure on his forearm. He was someone's pride and joy and very much loved. I later met the family and witnessed their joy and sadness at the same time, something a person can find hard to comprehend......until it happens to them.
I would never ever allow a doctor this cold and calloused in my operating room. She wouldn't understand.....she wouldn't fit in.

oija - 2015-07-16 10:31 AM

To get away, just a minute, from the overly emotional appeals and prevent a different perspective. This may have been a poor venue choice or not. Most people are more relaxed over a meal. Plenty of pro lifers like to eat salads and drink wine too. Her meal choices have NOTHING to do with this issue. Many of us watch starving children eat on television or watch people eat on sitcoms and somehow this is not disgusting. If this bothers you, it bothers you that someone who is opposed to your point of view treats it more casually or views the life of a child as valuable for other reasons, like saving the life of a child that has already been born, than what you personally think. You would find the topic disgusting no matter what. You just find it disturbing that she can treat it casually enough that she can discuss it while she eats. What she is eating and honestly the fact that she is eating is IRRELEVANT. Many medical professionals, my mother included as she is a nurse, have strong stomachs and can discuss topics over lunch that might turn many of our stomachs. If you want to discuss the issue, then discuss the issue, not her meal.

That being said. The parents with the premature baby born at 28 weeks that they have prayed and wished for may truly appreciate the fact that these organs are there in the first place to save their son or daughter. A life may be lost and another one saved.

Please just remember these points when you are discussing the issue.

Personally I'm not a fan of abortions. I'm a huge major fan of family planning and handing out condoms like its going out of style. But when we discuss these issues we do a disservice not to consider all sides of the issue with some logic, not just emotion, and to separate out the irrelevant bits. We do not want to be like politicians, throwing out red herrings to distract from the central issue. Frankly a video of heart surgery or a heart transplant, especially from a beating heart cadaver, is also disturbing to many people but it saves lives.

Be against this issue because you hate to see a life, any life, cut short. Don't be against it because the doctor is eating and the procedure is hard to look at.

oija - 2015-07-16 10:31 AM To get away, just a minute, from the overly emotional appeals and prevent a different perspective. This may have been a poor venue choice or not. Most people are more relaxed over a meal. Plenty of pro lifers like to eat salads and drink wine too. Her meal choices have NOTHING to do with this issue. Many of us watch starving children eat on television or watch people eat on sitcoms and somehow this is not disgusting. If this bothers you, it bothers you that someone who is opposed to your point of view treats it more casually or views the life of a child as valuable for other reasons, like saving the life of a child that has already been born, than what you personally think. You would find the topic disgusting no matter what. You just find it disturbing that she can treat it casually enough that she can discuss it while she eats. What she is eating and honestly the fact that she is eating is IRRELEVANT. Many medical professionals, my mother included as she is a nurse, have strong stomachs and can discuss topics over lunch that might turn many of our stomachs. If you want to discuss the issue, then discuss the issue, not her meal. That being said. The parents with the premature baby born at 28 weeks that they have prayed and wished for may truly appreciate the fact that these organs are there in the first place to save their son or daughter. A life may be lost and another one saved. Please just remember these points when you are discussing the issue. Personally I'm not a fan of abortions. I'm a huge major fan of family planning and handing out condoms like its going out of style. But when we discuss these issues we do a disservice not to consider all sides of the issue with some logic, not just emotion, and to separate out the irrelevant bits. We do not want to be like politicians, throwing out red herrings to distract from the central issue. Frankly a video of heart surgery or a heart transplant, especially from a beating heart cadaver, is also disturbing to many people but it saves lives. Be against this issue because you hate to see a life, any life, cut short. Don't be against it because the doctor is eating and the procedure is hard to look at.