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 Expert
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Location: SE Louisiana | Bibliafarm - 2015-10-02 9:04 PM
Thats true but there are also alot of guilty and admitted guilt or know for a fact they did it and they sit in prison being fed clothed and all that other stuff.. hang them !
This is true.. There are a lot of cases where the evidence is overwhelming. But there are cases where an admission of guilt has been proven to be coerced after long hours of interrogation.
Edited by komet. 2015-10-02 9:37 PM
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Expert
Posts: 4121
Location: SE Louisiana | Simple English!!!
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| komet. - 2015-10-02 10:10 PM
Simple English!!!
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Common Sense and then some
  
Location: So. California | I have yet to read a solution on how to keep guns out of the hands of the emotionally/mentally disturbed. How could LEO identify and stop this guy, stop him from obtaining 7 guns legally... or stop any of the school shooters this year? | |
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 How freakish is that?
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Location: Oregon | svincent - 2015-10-02 9:31 AM cheryl makofka - 2015-10-02 9:23 AM I am also a Canadian and I haven't read up on the specifics of this shooting so I don't know of the individual had legal weapons or not. Don't kid yourself in canada if someone wants a gun, they can find a gun or build a gun without a liscense. I had the opposite reaction. I think schools should consider giving teachers guns and the appropriate training to use deadly force of someone opens fire. I seen an article today about the man who received 7 shots when he charged the shooter. He is a hero and I cannot remember his name Chris Mintz is his name. He's doing well, recovering nicely, but will have to undergo A LOT of physical therapy and probably have to relearn how to walk. God bless him and his bravery.
His cousin started a gofundme for him, in 13 hours already to $485,000. Both his legs are broken.
https://www.gofundme.com/s75ge9y4 | |
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We have guns to stop a tyrannical govt period, and Im not giving them up over a few random killings.
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 Expert
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Location: on my horse | svincent - 2015-10-02 9:55 AM
Criminals are CRIMINALS. Passing gun laws that restrict ownership for law-abiding citizens will change NOTHING, except make law-abiding citizens more vulnerable.
If even ONE person had had a concealed weapon at Umpqua Community College yesterday, like the Army veteran who was shot five times after he rushed the gunman, the death toll probably would not be what it is. If that man had had a firearm instead of his body to protect himself and his fellow students with, he probably would have stopped the shooter completely.
We need to stop trying to legislate people into behaving. It doesn't work. Criminals DON'T care, so the general population needs to be allowed to defend themselves.
As a parent, I WOULD. NOT. HESITATE. to put my children in a classroom with a TRAINED and ARMED educator. Given the choice between trained and armed or not - I would choose the trained and armed teacher EVERY TIME. As an educator, I would feel SO MUCH safer if I was allowed to be armed at school. The first thing I do when I walk into a new classroom (I work as a substitute when I can get a babysitter, I'm normally a stay-at-home-mom) is mentally go through the classroom: where can I cram the kids should an active shooter situation occur? What in this room can I use to barricade the doors? What in this room can I use as a weapon? Where is the best place for ME to stand to put MYSELF between the shooter and my students? If I were permitted to carry in the classroom, the answers to all of those questions would get significantly easier.
Should teachers and staff be allowed to just carry guns at school? No, absolutely not. Staff should undergo military-esque training, learn methods for protecting their students, methods for holding a position under fire, etc.
As a stay-at-home-mom, you can bet that I am MORE than capable and willing to protect my children by any means necessary, and when I am in a classroom I would do the same. I have been through one "threat" of a student bringing a gun to school and during our staff meeting with local police to discuss the threat, every. single. teacher besides myself and ONE other, said that they would just get into the corner with the kids and pray. Why? "Because what else are we supposed to do?" was the answer. I found it not only sad that teachers feel so helpless to stop violence, but also TERRIFIED at the thought that they didn't have the confidence to at least TRY to stop the shooter.
Not all staff needs to be armed, even just a few would help. If you were a criminal and you were planning on committing a crime like this, would you pick an armed target ready to defend itself? Or a target where you KNOW there are no weapons, and the victims have no means to defend themselves? Right. THAT is why we need to not ban guns. We need to EDUCATE people on guns and their proper use, but not ban them.
I haven't read all the responses yet... however this post really stands out to me. One time we had an armed man come in our local college with the intent to shoot and our 5 foot tall vet tech professor took him out with a chair and removed his weapon after tackling him. Everyone else but her and my professor stood dumbstruck. After the incident we had a big talk about classroom safety and what we would do, my professor shared with us what he would do in the event of an attack (vet tech prof beat him to it that time) next time. NEXT TIME. He had a plan of where he would have us go instructed us on how to break a window safely to escape and told us he would defend us even if it meant dying.
Most professors as evidenced by that day had no idea what to do, nothing in the protocol actually prepares them for a way to handle an attack, most guidelines state teachers should lock their doors, turn off the lights and hide with the students. As a student teacher, I can tell you that most don't think beyond this and that worries me. Armed training for even a few professors and the ability to carry on campus would definitely make me feel safer as as student and as a future teacher. | |
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 I Drink Whiskey in Boys Shorts
Posts: 1882
| jkrm - 2015-10-02 8:34 AM
As a Non-American citizen (I'm Canadian) I honestly for the life of me can not understand the continued adamant stand - that it seems the majority (not all of course) of my American friends and neighbours have (and even some Canadians) - that it is your right to buy, carry and use guns - at all costs.
As I sat this morning watching news coverage of yet another mass school shooting in the states. I realized I have honestly and sadly become numb to them. I remember vividly when Columbine happened and sitting glued to the tv and crying as I watched parents, who lost children share their stories. Then I watched again the horror of the Connecticut shooting of so many innocent little ones. I was sure after that mass killing of children views would change. But nothing has changed.
Time after time I sit and watch news coverage of these mass shootings in my neighbouring country and shake my head. I have to be honest here, as an outsider looking in I don't get it. I don't. Every time there is a mass shooting the argument begins over gun control. Again I hear it is your constitutional right to bare arms. But as was pointed out in a radio show (yes Canadian radio show) was that not written over 200 years ago when life was very different and you were in fact at war with England and that it pertained to protecting your country from invasion from other countries mainly - England. Now it seems to me that you are in fact at war with one another.
Yes I know, I know I've heard it - guns don't kill people, people kill people. However, I see people (I'll be it usually mental ill) with very easy access to guns killing people. Lots and lots of people, including very innocent youth.
I do not understand (please help me) why any average American citizen needs access to the guns that you all have access too. Why do you need assault guns that typically are meant for military.
I confess I don't know guns at all ( I'm honestly quite afraid of them). With that being said we do own guns. I couldn't tell you what they are (I'm guess some 22's and a shot gun). My husband and son's hunt and being on a farm we do need guns for the occasional time we have to humanely put an animal down or shoot a skunk or porcupine. But that's it, that's all we own.
As a Canadian I can't walk into a store tomorrow and buy a gun. I have to take a gun safety course, I have to take courses and get a license to be able to purchase a gun (that would be 22's and shot guns). If I want a pistol the regulations are very, very, very strict. I (to my knowledge) can not buy any sort of assault (I think that's what they are called- that shoot a lot at one time) rifle. And quite frankly why on earth would I need one.
As I type this my local radio talk show is again discussing another mass shooting in America. Again the host and callers are shaking their heads at the American mentality of your right to bare arms at all costs. I in Canada, just don't get it.
I'm not an Obama fan. I just don't think he is a great President however on his views on gun control needed in the U.S. I confess I agree with him.
I realize the problem isn't guns per say. The problem is larger than that, mental illness being one of them. But keeping guns out of the hands of people with mental illness needs to be looked at and if implementing some form of gun control does that and prevents these continuous mass shootings why on earth would you not be in favour of that. Yes, even at the expense of your God Given Right. Canada has forms of gun control in place. Yes I'm still able to own guns (or my husband and son's do). They have hunting guns, guns for shooting injured sick animals and I suppose if we absolutely needed, those same guns could be used to protect us or our property. Our gun laws do not prevent honest hard working law abiding citizens from owning guns but they do slow down a mentally ill person from being able to walk into a store today from buying a gun that can shoot a lot of people in a short amount of time, then going out and using it.
I do agree the biggest issue is obviously mental health and that's a whole other can of worms but I personally believe figuring out how to keep all your guns out of the hands of people with mental health issues would be a start.
I'm not meaning to start a war here. I'm just sharing my point of view from an outsider looking in, watching the news and not understanding the complete gun mentality that American's seem to have. And I confess I have many fellow Canadian that share the same views.
Hope we can keep this post civil. I just am trying to understand how implementing some gun control laws will affect negatively on your day to day life.
I appreciate the fact that you constructed a well thought out answer. That shows that you aren't close minded. I will try and give you a decent reply as this is a subject that I am quite passionate about. I am hoping I can articulate it well enough. Forgive me as I haven't yet read all of the replies.
Number one reason we Americans are so passionate about or firearms is that our rights to own firearm(s) is guaranteed in the Bill of Rights. No questions.
Those of us who own firearms, or those that don't own but respect the second amendment know that firearms are crucial for preventing the destruction of the rest of our rights.
We know that in countries where no firearms are allowed that murder, assault, home invasion, etc, are higher than the rates we see here. I encourage to research these rates. If not from non-biased sources at least from both sides of the fence.
I am sure there are more reasons, but my passion for this subject as well as the movie on tv have my words a little absent at the moment. So with all that being said, I will just chat for a minute. Most, if not all of these mass shootings are occurring in places where guns are "not permitted". Why do you think this is? It is because these sick people are seeking out targets that they know will have little, if any, chance of defending themselves. Pull up stats of shootings at schools where firearms are permitted. There has been a decline in this country over the years of respect and appreciation for life. That of the living and not yet living. If a person does not value life, then where does their moral compass stand? Where is their respect for their life and that of others? See. Everyone,with the exception of my toddler, shoots in this home. We hunt and fish. Nobody takes life as disposable here. We all understand the gravity of taking the life of a creature in order to nourish our family, protect our family, or to end suffering in a pet/animal. This is a not only a right but a responsibility that none of us take lightly. Lord willing that creature is never a human. You know what though? We as parents in this house both demand and earn respect from our kids. We are not afraid to discipline, discuss issues, have fun, or teach our kids. However, there is clear line between child and parent in this home. Almost all kids raised in environments like this do not grow up to commit crimes.
So, here is the problem with more gun laws. Who will obey these laws? The people that typically obey laws, not the people who have no regard for authority or human life. People who commit these crimes have obtained these firearms illegally. In doing so, they have already bypassed all gun laws already in place. They steal, purchase illegally, or borrow a firearm in order to commit these crimes. Or in the case of Timothy McVeigh, they make weapons. Then they disobey yet more laws by entering gun free zones to take as many lives as possible. The only thing gun laws will do is further disable law abiding citizens. Pull the stats. Guns are not the leading cause of death in this country. Actually, I think they barely make the top 10. You speak of mental illness. Here is the deal. Even if these people couldn't obtain firearms, you want to tell me they wouldn't find other ways to go out in a blaze of glory? I already mentioned one. Though they weren't necessarily mentally ill, what about the terrorists of 911? Andrea Yates comes to mind. Her poor babies were taken out of this world because mom heard voices. All she had was a bathtub. What about all the crimes of passion committed with hammers, baseball bats, knives, etc?
Ok. I need to wrap this up. People with your viewpoint are prime for the picking in issues like this. You live in a home with firearms, yet don't understand them and are admittedly scared of them. Please, please, please, learn about the firearms you own. Better yet. Handle them, shoot them, clean them, appreciate them. With knowledge and familiarity comes respect and understanding. The number one thing in common of people who support stricter gun laws is a lack of knowledge. You need to be educated on the subject to fully understand the scope of this issue. I hope I have shared some things that you haven't considered!
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Expert
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Location: SE Louisiana | You don't seem to understand.... Almost ALL the people here (unlike me) are female..... and a goodly number of them C,C (Carry, Concealed)
I've never met a more dangerous bunch of women in my life!! Not only can they tame wild stallions... They can SHOOT you too!!! | |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| Anniemae - 2015-10-02 10:38 PM
I have yet to read a solution on how to keep guns out of the hands of the emotionally/mentally disturbed. How could LEO identify and stop this guy, stop him from obtaining 7 guns legally... or stop any of the school shooters this year?
With the more information that is coming out, it sounds like this was religious persecution, not because he was mentally ill | |
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 Take a Picture
Posts: 12838
| komet. - 2015-10-02 10:10 PM
Simple English!!!
I agree. | |
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Take a Picture
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| cheryl makofka - 2015-10-03 9:43 AM
Anniemae - 2015-10-02 10:38 PM
I have yet to read a solution on how to keep guns out of the hands of the emotionally/mentally disturbed. How could LEO identify and stop this guy, stop him from obtaining 7 guns legally... or stop any of the school shooters this year?
With the more information that is coming out, it sounds like this was religious persecution, not because he was mentally ill
His brother in law said he had some mental issues. He was wearing body armour and had enough ammunition for a long exchange of gunfire. Along with mental issues there is lack of regard for human life. Sounds to me like a Muslim wanna be.
Edited by streakysox 2015-10-03 10:43 AM
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| streakysox - 2015-10-03 10:32 AM
cheryl makofka - 2015-10-03 9:43 AM
Anniemae - 2015-10-02 10:38 PM
I have yet to read a solution on how to keep guns out of the hands of the emotionally/mentally disturbed. How could LEO identify and stop this guy, stop him from obtaining 7 guns legally... or stop any of the school shooters this year?
With the more information that is coming out, it sounds like this was religious persecution, not because he was mentally ill
His brother in law said he had some mental issues. He was wearing body armour and had enough ammunition for a long exchange of gunfire. Along with mental issues there is lack of regard for human life. Sounds to me like a Muslim wanna be.
Unless there is documented evidence that he was mentally ill, by doctor, psychiatrist, psychologist, the brother in law may be trying to build a defence, or save the families name.
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  Warmblood with Wings
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Location: Florida.. | Mentally Ill dont shoot because your christain.. I dont believe it for a second..sicko yes.. mentally ill no..he was pathetic to know who to shoot.. so mentally ill no.. | |
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 Chicken Chick
Posts: 3562
Location: Texas | crapshooter - 2015-10-02 10:47 PM
svincent - 2015-10-02 9:31 AM cheryl makofka - 2015-10-02 9:23 AM I am also a Canadian and I haven't read up on the specifics of this shooting so I don't know of the individual had legal weapons or not. Don't kid yourself in canada if someone wants a gun, they can find a gun or build a gun without a liscense. I had the opposite reaction. I think schools should consider giving teachers guns and the appropriate training to use deadly force of someone opens fire. I seen an article today about the man who received 7 shots when he charged the shooter. He is a hero and I cannot remember his name Chris Mintz is his name. He's doing well, recovering nicely, but will have to undergo A LOT of physical therapy and probably have to relearn how to walk. God bless him and his bravery.
https://www.gofundme.com/s75ge9y4
$627,333 now. | |
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Chicken Chick
Posts: 3562
Location: Texas | komet. - 2015-10-03 3:41 AM
You don't seem to understand.... Almost ALL the people here (unlike me) are female..... and a goodly number of them C,C (Carry, Concealed)
I've never met a more dangerous bunch of women in my life!! Not only can they tame wild stallions... They can SHOOT you too!!!
and there are probably more CC than you know. | |
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 Life Saver
Posts: 10477
Location: MT | pinx05 - 2015-10-03 12:00 PM komet. - 2015-10-03 3:41 AM You don't seem to understand.... Almost ALL the people here (unlike me) are female..... and a goodly number of them C,C (Carry, Concealed) I've never met a more dangerous bunch of women in my life!! Not only can they tame wild stallions... They can SHOOT you too!!! and there are probably more CC than you know.
And a few open carry too. | |
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Chicken Chick
Posts: 3562
Location: Texas | Anniemae - 2015-10-02 10:38 PM
I have yet to read a solution on how to keep guns out of the hands of the emotionally/mentally disturbed. How could LEO identify and stop this guy, stop him from obtaining 7 guns legally... or stop any of the school shooters this year?
there isn't one. The solution is to let the law abiding citizens have the opportunity to defend themselves. If someone is going to go on a shooting rampage they don't care if their weapons are legal. If someone had had a gun in oregon, the shooter may not have killed anyone. Although his element of surprise would have helped him. Maybe if someone had a gun he only killed 1 person, saving 8 lives. Maybe if the shooter knew it wasn't a gun free zone he wouldn't have gone there at all. Why did he go to a college and not a police station? Because he was a coward and knew every one of them will be defensless. No matter what anyone does, there will ALWAYS be guns in america. My hope is that one day it isn't only the criminals that have guns. | |
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Miss Southern Sunshine
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Location: South Central Florida | Anniemae - 2015-10-02 11:38 PM I have yet to read a solution on how to keep guns out of the hands of the emotionally/mentally disturbed. How could LEO identify and stop this guy, stop him from obtaining 7 guns legally... or stop any of the school shooters this year?
I don't believe there IS a way. No one will like this answer, but we live in a fallen world, when evil wants to make a killing, they will find a way. Oklahoma City, no guns involved.
My problem with getting restrictions on "mental illness". . . sounds cold and uncaring but who gets to decide just what constitutes "mental illness". I truly care, I have had and currently deal with family members with true mental illnesses. But I also know lots of people I dislike or disagree with that I think may be a little strange...who decides. When do they decide someone with extreme political idiological differences is "mentally ill". It has happened in other countries. . . it can happen here.
So we pray, protect ourselves and I do not want to give up freedom for a pretend feeling of safty. I'll take the risk.
Any man willing to give up freedom for security has NEITHER.
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Miss Southern Sunshine
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Location: South Central Florida | I have some very extreme views on the 2nd ammendment. I'm not sure if it was discusse here, but the central reason for that law, was so that no matter what, the "people" could defend themselves from their own government. Something the writers had just been through and seen personally.
I've read the stats, and they can be scewed many many ways. The reality is there is no way to 100% protect ourselves from everything. If you look at the numbers, far more children drownd in back yard swimming pools. . . so do we outlaw swimming pools? Because it was 1 at a time instead of a large number? Is it less tragic to die one person at a time? Is it somehow less senseless to have a child die in a pool?
I WANT to be able to defend myself, not only against my own government if that ever became a reality, but I live out in the woods...I love it, I totally respect life, but if it indangers mine or the lives of my livestock...its an easy decission.
I pray for those that were lost, I pray for those families. My heart aches for them, but I do not understand anyone, expecially from another country, willingly giving up their weapons.
I will add, that weather or not a person admits it, they have a bias they read the media through. Read the stats in Chicago, strongest gun laws anywhere...most gun crimes. Depending on the article you read...those facts are scewed.
It's a hard cold fact, death is part of life, and evil is part of this fallen world. Until that changes, there is no way to protect ourselves from anything bad every happening.
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