MOTIVATED - 2015-10-28 12:01 PM


 I just wanted to say that I didint know that I was STEALING....I thought after I bought the picture it was mine..I didnt know there was even such a thing as "Digital rights" or whatever...I have photographer friends who send me my pictures, with the watermarks, so that I can pick which I want without having to go search through hundreds of pics on the website...and then I buy the one I want.......and usually share it to Facebook until my phyisical photo comes in the mail. I DIDNT KNOW>>>>people who do not work with Copyrights HAVE TO REASON TO KNOW....until they are accused of stealing that is....so now that I know the difference I will be sure to purchase the digital if I want to post  it on Facebook. 

I just thought I would be clear about the fact that I didnt screenshot anything and not buy the photo. I bought it...I thought it was mine...and I wanted to post it asap because I was excited to take a good pic that weekend or whatever...meant no harm in it at all....JUST DIDNT KNOW THE RULES. NOT EVERYONE IS DOING IT TO STEAL. 

 

hlynn - 2015-10-28 11:17 AM Most of the time if you bought the hard copy of the photo, you can scan it or take a crappy low res phone picture and post it to Facebook all you want to and most won't care. That's not a huge deal. You paid for it. And you can't reproduce quality prints with a scanned image like that. It's the screen shots that are the big deal to me. When people get around paying anything. Or they buy a hard copy but still choose to screen shot the preview online. That is still stealing! You do not own every copy of that photo! Only the one you purchased. That's it. When you purchase the digital copy, you get a copy of a release that lets you take that photo to a printer and get it made into prints. Usually it's not a high res copy so you won't get a 16x20 canvas but you can probably get that 8x10 you wanted but didn't want to buy at the show. Every photographer is different though and some are pickier than others.

hlynn - 2015-10-28 10:41 AM There's more to it than just the time spent taking the photos sweet cheeks. Add in the time setting up the flashes, the cameras, all of the other equipment, the computers, etc. THEN taking pictures for hours upon hours. Then editing and uploading for hours upon hours. It adds up. So yes, all that money they charge is well worth it. Spend it or don't. But don't complain about it if you haven't the slightest clue the work that goes into it. And most photographers have day jobs during the week. They use their vacation time to go shoot big shows on the weekends. They usually enjoy it until they have to defend themselves and end up losing God knows how much revenue from people STEALING because they screenshot instead of just buying the digital image with all the rights to it.

hlynn - 2015-10-28 9:37 AM Oh and most of the time they're also charged a vendor fee of they're there for the weekend. So they're also trying to cover that on top of the other costs of just getting there and spending hours uploading and editing and everything else. You have no idea the hours upon hours of behind the scenes stuff that goes on.

ropenrun - 2015-10-28 12:41 PM Don't be so sure that "most" of them are paying a vendor fee".  In my part of the world, as a producer of many races, they do not pay a vendore fee, but rather I am the one who has to provide them with lodging.  And there are several that also require you pay mileage for them as well.  I absolutely refuse to hire any of them that require mileage.  And I really don't like having to provide lodging either but if I didn't I would not have a quality photographer.  I have to consider it a cost of producing a race.  So yes they have a lot of hours, money, and equipment investment.  But that is a cost of doing their business, just like having to pay their lodging is a cost of me doing business and a service I provide to those who enter.   We could take this a step further...since I paid for their room, provided them with exclusive rights to photograph my event, then maybe all of us a producers using their services need to get a percentage of every photo they sell from our events because after all if it wasn't for my hard work, long hours, money and equipment I have invested producing my event, they would not have the opportunity to be selling their pictures.  Seems kind of crazy huh!  I will also not ever hire a photographer that requires me to have my contestants pay a mandatory photographer or videographer fee  or requires me to pay a per contestant fee to them, nor will I enter a race that demands that of me as a contestant.



As for purchasing rights to a photo they are not always cheap.  We bought a picture of my kid at the NHSRA Finals a few years ago.  Very nice picture from a very well known professional photographer who takes pictures at a lot of high profile events.  I had a local business ask to use the picture for a project they were doing, so I contacted the photographer asking for permission and they would be noted as the photographer and get the advertisement for it.  The reply I received "my fee is $1000 if you would like to purchase the rights to that photo".  Um...no thank you.

turnnburnkota - 2015-10-29 2:01 PM

As a photographer, it's both interesting and extremely frustrating to read the responses on this post. Apparently before I say this I need to preface it with saying I am NOT trying to say anyone works harder than anyone else, BUT- competitors do NOT take into account that it's very common for a photographer to be in the sun the entire day, because that may be the best place to shoot from. The photographer may not eat lunch, or may have to wait forever to go to the bathroom, because heaven forbid you miss a run (that's sure to be the one person who comes *****ing to you later that "YOU DIDN'T GET A PICTURE OF ME!). As was mentioned, most of us have another job, and may use vacation to go shoot a big event. I know I pay my own fuel, and at least for a barrel race I've never had a producer pay for so much as my lunch. After spending that day in the sun, you get to go home, spend hours downloading, organizing, then uploading to a website. (while people bug you about why it's taking so long... the same people who don't usually PAY for anything later) Sure enough, every barrel race, I would start seeing screenshotted versions of my photos showing up on Facebook right away.
I've tried to explain it this way... if someone spent all day making something, say- a headstall. They have worked to perfect their craft, bought their equipment, and put the time into making something, and produced a product... are you going to just walk up and take it? That's what you're doing when you steal a photograph. It doesn't matter if the photo is of you. The LAW doesn't care. That photographer has spent time learning what they do, thousands of dollars in equipment, etc. It's illegal and just disrespectful.

For the record, I won't shoot barrel races anymore because of how bad it got. I do a couple bigger horse shows a year where I haven't had any problems, and then some portrait shoots. It's not worth it.

komet. - 2015-10-29 12:13 PM
But you MADE your money. You sold the pic, pocketed the money and now you want to gouge the person for more. Why can't you be happy that people show off your work and the capability of your equipment and maybe push more customers your way?
I can tell you right now, the first time a photographer sues someone for posting a pic online, word will get around and their name will be mud and their services will be shunned.

polorunner - 2015-10-27 2:46 PM

9 times out of 10 it isnt the issue of you buying the photo, it is normally the people that never buy anything from the photographer. They go on the website where the photos are for sale and steal them and post them on FB. Those photographers sit there for the entire show and take photos and I dont blame them at ALL for not wanting their photos stolen. It has always amazed me when you come home from a show and see photos on FB that have STOLEN written across them. How hard is it to pay the $3.00 for a digital copy? I am yet to meet a photographer that wont throw a digital copy in for free if you buy a hard copy of the photo. Most of them are wonderful to work with and get tired of people stealing their photos. They deserve to get paid just like anyone else. However Motivated if you already paid for the photo, I can't imagine they wouldnt be able to work with you on a digitial copy. 

Hudley_SK - 2015-10-29 2:48 PM

I am a photographer. When I started out I used to only be on FB. I posted all my pictures there and allowed people to tag and use as I was just starting out. Now have transitioned to posting a handful of previews on fb (with watermarks) and the rest on smugmug (with watermarks). I will sell as hard copies or digital, but I prefer digital as it's easier for me and the customer as 90% will use for posting on social media or what not. I charge $15 and once you have the picture you can use it for what ever you choose. I do not mind pictures of hard copies but it does make the picture look downgraded and I would rather you just let me know and I will send a digital copy for free if you already purchased a hard copy. I have my pictures right-click protected on smug mug but of course that doesn't stop screen shots from being taken. Social media has been a huge promoter but also yes a big problem for photographers. I also have the option to contact me and I can upload to facebook album (with watermark still) and you may tag and share from that original post, therefore directly linking back to my page. There are lots of competing photographers around and some of them charge up the ass for pictures, with no difference in quality. And man do I hear kick back from people wanting to purchase those not understanding why they charge maybe $50/ picture and I only do $15. As a barrel racer myself I charge appropriately (I think anyway haha) since I know I would be okay with paying that if the image was of myself. Still see lots of screen shots around which is terrible but hard to stop... funny thing is it's typically the same people again and again. I also do family, couple, etc. shoots and again upload previews to fb and smug mug then CDs to customers and just ask when posting on social media to give credit and tag my page if they can. Many are more then happy to do so :)


ETA: Definitey agree with turnnburnkota's post! We put in tons of hours to get to the end product. Yes I have a job/ and or was previously school on top, I'm not saying we work harder but our work is sometimes under appreciated.

turnnburnkota - 2015-10-29 2:36 PM It's not gouging. A print and a digital file are separate products. So you buy the headstall, you can grab some reins on your way out? My website offers the option of purchasing a digital file for internet use. This is not the full-res file for printing (that one costs more because it prevents me from making any future money off that photograph). At larger shows, I usually offer a deal such as including the internet-use digital file with purchase of an 8x10, or something like that. The photographer should be clear, but the customer should not feel entitled to steal. It is stealing. The file is a PRODUCT and takes away from future profit from the photographer. I can still sell prints off something I shot years ago, but I won't if the person is illegally making their own copies.

dianeguinn - 2015-10-29 3:58 PM Who just charges $3 for the digital copy??? I've never gotten off that cheap, and I, too, went through what the OP did....being called a thief, etc....when I didn't know....and that particular photographer charges from $50 to $150 for the digital rights depending on the picture and where it was taken and how many there are. There is one photographer that comes to local events that only charges $5, but that's the cheapest I've EVER encountered and I try to buy as many as possible from him.

Three 4 Luck - 2015-10-30 8:23 AM


 But if I buy that headstall and turn it into a neck strap, I don't have to pay you again.    

oija - 2015-10-30 10:57 AM Ah but you can only turn it into a neck stocking stufferce. A photo can be reproduced digitally over and over and over again. You get much more 'value' in terms of reproducability with anything that is copyrighted, thus the difference between intellectual property and real property. You can't copyright real property as it only exists in a tangible form but intellectual property can be reproduced almost infinitely. They are different mediums and thus different laws, etc., guide them. I have no idea why that says neck stocking stufferce. I've edited it a few times. I mean neck strap. It keeps correcting my edit to the neck stocking thing. Hmm.

Three 4 Luck - 2015-10-30 11:12 AM


 LMAO
S t r a p-o n turns into stocking stuffer. Someone with a sense of humor did that years ago.