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 Toastest with the Mostest
Posts: 5712
  
Location: That part of Texas | MOTIVATED - 2016-02-10 3:30 PM I will start empathizing with other people about how to keep them on the road and doing what they love for a living when they start giving a crap about me working an 8 to 5 and wishing I was doing the same thing. Sorry, its hard....but you're doing it. No one said they HAD to. I dont feel sorry for them, I dont care how they make money, its none of my business really...and at the end of the day I am not going to listen to a bunch of people whining about getting to do something that a million other people would like to do. Guess what, I dont like my job either haha.....we both have the choice to do something different. The difference is, I am not going to open my own competing company and then sue my boss for not letting me "get it started" with his paychecks....so that I am going to be 1. Ungrateful for my job 2. Sue him for not letting me start a competing company while working for him 3. cry and moan to the public (and to those without jobs) that my meany head boss wont let me come to work for him while I get a competing company up and running and trash him in the public eye. Sorry not sorry.
I don't see this being an employer/employee type of relationship because as much as anybody "works" in a PRCA event, there' no guarantee of a pay-off at the end of the day.
The PRCA has provided the opportunity and platform for these contestants to make a living, fortune and fame off of. Nobody is saying that they haven't done that and that they haven't tried to make that the best platform that's out there. The difference comes when PRCA says "I own you. I made you who you are today by the things I've done to put you in a spotlight and I'll keep you in my playing field or you won't play at all." The question is: who owns the "work-product" of all those years of rodeoing, sacrificing, going down the road and stardom? The PRCA has basically said "I made you and you're staying in my world or you're gone . . . and I'm going to make sure you can't create a world where you'd be just as successful or popular without me."
If you doubt any of this, go back to the press release from October 2015 and read what was said before the new by-laws were handed down. From the start the PRCA has crowed about how they made these ERA contestants what they are today. Yes they provided the platform but how many years have they benefited from talent that wasn't their own = talent that belonged to those contestants who paid to play in all forms and once they couldn't "pay" the price (be it age, injury, fatigue, etc.) they were cast aside for the next star to dance under the lights?
In the end, the question really remains on who truly owns what in regards to talent and what you can do (as a contestant) with your own "brand" once you decide to dance with someone else besides the PRCA. As a contestant, do you really own your talent, hard-work and fan base so that you can go anywhere or do what you want with it? PRCA says no -- we're gonna put limits on what you can do if you leave us or want to expand your career with other organizations. To me that's not an employer-employee relationship but one more like exploitation and slavery for those lucky enough to climb to the top and be one of the PRCA darlings.
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 Expert
Posts: 1525
 
| Red Raider - 2016-02-11 3:51 PM
MOTIVATED - 2016-02-10 3:30 PM I will start empathizing with other people about how to keep them on the road and doing what they love for a living when they start giving a crap about me working an 8 to 5 and wishing I was doing the same thing. Sorry, its hard....but you're doing it. No one said they HAD to. I dont feel sorry for them, I dont care how they make money, its none of my business really...and at the end of the day I am not going to listen to a bunch of people whining about getting to do something that a million other people would like to do. Guess what, I dont like my job either haha.....we both have the choice to do something different. The difference is, I am not going to open my own competing company and then sue my boss for not letting me "get it started" with his paychecks....so that I am going to be 1. Ungrateful for my job 2. Sue him for not letting me start a competing company while working for him 3. cry and moan to the public (and to those without jobs) that my meany head boss wont let me come to work for him while I get a competing company up and running and trash him in the public eye. Sorry not sorry.
I don't see this being an employer/employee type of relationship because as much as anybody "works" in a PRCA event, there' no guarantee of a pay-off at the end of the day.
The PRCA has provided the opportunity and platform for these contestants to make a living, fortune and fame off of. Nobody is saying that they haven't done that and that they haven't tried to make that the best platform that's out there. The difference comes when PRCA says "I own you. I made you who you are today by the things I've done to put you in a spotlight and I'll keep you in my playing field or you won't play at all." The question is: who owns the "work-product" of all those years of rodeoing, sacrificing, going down the road and stardom? The PRCA has basically said "I made you and you're staying in my world or you're gone . . . and I'm going to make sure you can't create a world where you'd be just as successful or popular without me."
If you doubt any of this, go back to the press release from October 2015 and read what was said before the new by-laws were handed down. From the start the PRCA has crowed about how they made these ERA contestants what they are today. Yes they provided the platform but how many years have they benefited from talent that wasn't their own = talent that belonged to those contestants who paid to play in all forms and once they couldn't "pay" the price (be it age, injury, fatigue, etc.) they were cast aside for the next star to dance under the lights?
In the end, the question really remains on who truly owns what in regards to talent and what you can do (as a contestant) with your own "brand" once you decide to dance with someone else besides the PRCA. As a contestant, do you really own your talent, hard-work and fan base so that you can go anywhere or do what you want with it? PRCA says no -- we're gonna put limits on what you can do if you leave us or want to expand your career with other organizations. To me that's not an employer-employee relationship but one more like exploitation and slavery for those lucky enough to climb to the top and be one of the PRCA darlings.
Okay, maybe not employer/employee......but whiny and ungrateful for sure. My mind wont change about that. And I dont think that is what the PRCA has said really, because they still have the opportunity to compete in jackpots and ammys and open rodeos. They just said "you can not sue us and still use our services you ungrateful, whiny cowboys"...
Edited by MOTIVATED 2016-02-11 4:23 PM
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 Own It and Move On
Location: The edge of no where | MOTIVATED - 2016-02-11 4:20 PM Red Raider - 2016-02-11 3:51 PM MOTIVATED - 2016-02-10 3:30 PM I will start empathizing with other people about how to keep them on the road and doing what they love for a living when they start giving a crap about me working an 8 to 5 and wishing I was doing the same thing. Sorry, its hard....but you're doing it. No one said they HAD to. I dont feel sorry for them, I dont care how they make money, its none of my business really...and at the end of the day I am not going to listen to a bunch of people whining about getting to do something that a million other people would like to do. Guess what, I dont like my job either haha.....we both have the choice to do something different. The difference is, I am not going to open my own competing company and then sue my boss for not letting me "get it started" with his paychecks....so that I am going to be 1. Ungrateful for my job 2. Sue him for not letting me start a competing company while working for him 3. cry and moan to the public (and to those without jobs) that my meany head boss wont let me come to work for him while I get a competing company up and running and trash him in the public eye. Sorry not sorry. I don't see this being an employer/employee type of relationship because as much as anybody "works" in a PRCA event, there' no guarantee of a pay-off at the end of the day.
The PRCA has provided the opportunity and platform for these contestants to make a living, fortune and fame off of. Nobody is saying that they haven't done that and that they haven't tried to make that the best platform that's out there. The difference comes when PRCA says "I own you. I made you who you are today by the things I've done to put you in a spotlight and I'll keep you in my playing field or you won't play at all." The question is: who owns the "work-product" of all those years of rodeoing, sacrificing, going down the road and stardom? The PRCA has basically said "I made you and you're staying in my world or you're gone . . . and I'm going to make sure you can't create a world where you'd be just as successful or popular without me."
If you doubt any of this, go back to the press release from October 2015 and read what was said before the new by-laws were handed down. From the start the PRCA has crowed about how they made these ERA contestants what they are today. Yes they provided the platform but how many years have they benefited from talent that wasn't their own = talent that belonged to those contestants who paid to play in all forms and once they couldn't "pay" the price (be it age, injury, fatigue, etc.) they were cast aside for the next star to dance under the lights?
In the end, the question really remains on who truly owns what in regards to talent and what you can do (as a contestant) with your own "brand" once you decide to dance with someone else besides the PRCA. As a contestant, do you really own your talent, hard-work and fan base so that you can go anywhere or do what you want with it? PRCA says no -- we're gonna put limits on what you can do if you leave us or want to expand your career with other organizations. To me that's not an employer-employee relationship but one more like exploitation and slavery for those lucky enough to climb to the top and be one of the PRCA darlings.
Okay, maybe not employer/employee......but whiny and ungrateful for sure. My mind wont change about that. And I dont think that is what the PRCA has said really, because they still have the opportunity to compete in jackpots and ammys and open rodeos. They just said "you can not sue us and still use our services you ungrateful, whiny cowboys"...
The ERA was not suing the PRCA when the bylaws were handed down. First came the bylaws, which provided grounds for the lawsuit. | |
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Own It and Move On
Location: The edge of no where | Flavio Ribeiro 2 hrs ·People have called and texted me and asked me my opinion on recent news about PRCA vs ERA deal. I am going to start saying that in 1999 I came to the US for roping school with Barry Burk and in 2000 I stayed at the Burk Ranch for 6 months roping with Barry. I had the opportunity to see first hand how the life of these rodeo cowboys was and got to meet all the great calf ropers that were competing back then and most the ones that still competing. Before living with Barry I thought these cowboys were all RICH and live a GLAMOROUS life being a rodeo cowboy/cowgirl. Some might say well “they spend more money than they should” but that’s not my point. So for the past 16 years I have been involved with rodeo in the USA and a few years ago I started making yearly trips to the NFR and have also have the opportunity to sponsor a few of these cowboys. Back then in 2000 you would probably see two or maybe three patches in a cowboy shirt, endorsements were very minimal compared to today. Some people say it costs from $60,000.00 to $80,000.00 to rodeo a year, which I think its way more than that but since I have never Rodeo professionally and I have not seen anyone’s books to do the math I have to assume that these figures are right.
I copied the text below from the PBR website:
“The most defining moment in Professional Bull Riders history is undoubtedly the monumental meeting that took place in April of 1992 at a motel in Scottsdale, Ariz. It was there that the 20 founders of the PBR invested $1,000 each to form what has become the world's premier bull riding organization. Considering the history of the sport and what would transpire over the next 20 years, this meeting not only impacted the PBR, but also proved to be influential for the ongoing popularity of western culture. To fully understand the significance, it's imperative to know that - historically speaking - bull riders were initially thought of as unskilled cowboys. When rodeo was first getting started, bull riders were cowboys who didn't possess the skills to rope. It wasn't until riders such as Jim Shoulders (1950s) and then Larry Mahan (1960-70s) drew attention to the sport that eventually led to the golden age of the 1980s, which is when the 20 founders were all in their prime. Bull riders went from being "unskilled" to headlining rodeos, and eventually forming their own standalone sport, which sells out arenas such as Madison Square Garden and can be seen on network television.”
Ok so in 1992 there were about 15 bull riders that were “making money”, the 15 that made the NFR. Today there are 35 Bull riders that make the PBR Finals and 15 that make the NFR. Last year if I am not mistaken Shane Proctor was the only one that made both Finals. So those Bull riders in 1992 had a vision that Bull riders need to make more money and need to not have to travel as much, and today that is a reality, but for several years a lot of these cowboys competed in both associations. Some might say that the PRCA bull riders cannot compete at PBR, but I think it is a false statement, Riding a bull is no easy feat. But, because of the PBR there are more bull riders making a decent living these days.
When I heard about the idea of the ERA I thought it was a great idea and that would allow people that normally don’t follow, roping, steer wrestling, barrel racing and bronc riders will have a chance to follow people in a constant bases and get to know them. I bet if you go to any PBR rodeo and start asking people who is competing that night lots of people will know at least a dozen of the guys names. If you go to our conventional rodeo not so much. I also started hearing “that this is not fair because they want to pick who they want to play and this and that”. I have also heard “that if you have a PRCA card you are a professional rodeo cowboy”, and many more comments. Well just because you have a PRCA card that does not make you a professional cowboy, it means you have won the minimum in order to compete in PRCA rodeos. Also I as fan don’t think that is fair for a weekend rodeo cowboy to want to be compared to a guy that travels thousands of miles and spend thousands of dollars down the road. There are rodeos for everyone to go, but when it comes to TV, people want to watch GREATNESS and NOT average. That is why Calgary Stampede is live on TV, Houston Livestock Show and Rodeo is live on TV, The NFR is live on TV, The American is Live on TV, The PBR rodeos and PBR Finals is Live on TV, because only the best compete in this events. Also I have not seen very many people that are constant on the top 50 complaining about the ERA, that’s because they understand the need for a change. I have talked to several guys that are not on the ERA tour and some say they would like to be included and some say I have not won as much as most of those guys so I hope eventually I get there, some say I was offered a spot but I declined and some don’t agree with the idea but hope it works.
Folks change is not easy, I bet several bull riders in the early 90’s thought David Bailey Jr., Clint Branger, Mark Cain, Adam and Gilbert Carrillo, Cody Custer, Jerome Davis, Bobby DelVecchio, Mike Erikson, David Fournier, Michael Gaffney, Tuff Hedeman, Cody Lambert, Scott Mendes, Daryl Mills, Ty Murray, Ted Nuce, Aaron Semas, Jim Sharp and Brent Thurman were out of their mind when they started the “Bull Riders Only” now PBR. But now most of those wish they had done the same thing. When RFD-TV had the first The American I heard people saying that was the first and last, that it was crazy and stupid to do that. Well look at it now it’s the 3rd Edition and every year new things are brought in and the cowboys and fans are the ones winning with all this.
I am not here to tell you are right or wrong about your opinions because we all have the right to have our own, but why not let these guys try to better the sport we love so much that is Rodeo (Bareback, Steer Wrestling, Team Roping, Saddle Bronc, Tie Down Roping, Barrel Racing, and Bull Riding). We all would like to have a stable financial life and the way it is today very few Rodeo athletes can really do that. If we are going to have an association that will put rodeo more often on TV, draw new sponsors and new fans why not support. Changes are not easy and a lot of people are very good at criticizing but not as much on actually doing something.
I love Rodeo and I wish the ERA, PRCA, WPRA, PBR, CBR, CPRA, UPRA, IPRA, the Collegiate Rodeos, Youth Rodeos and any other rodeo association the best, because without them there is no Rodeo. I hope one day we can all get along.
Have a wonderful rest of the week.
^^This pretty well sums up how I feel about the deal. | |
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Toastest with the Mostest
Posts: 5712
Location: That part of Texas | MOTIVATED - 2016-02-11 4:20 PM
Okay, maybe not employer/employee......but whiny and ungrateful for sure. My mind wont change about that. And I dont think that is what the PRCA has said really, because they still have the opportunity to compete in jackpots and ammys and open rodeos. They just said "you can not sue us and still use our services you ungrateful, whiny cowboys"...
I don't mean to pick on you but have you looked at those by-laws in that context? They sure made it an issue when they wrote them in:
B15.1.1.2 Rodeo Committees.
In light of the PRCA’s long-standing and ongoing efforts to create popular and successful PRCA-sanctioned professional rodeo competitions and promote rodeo sports in general, including but not limited to creating the National Finals Rodeo event and qualifying points system, soliciting corporate sponsors and television contracts, establishing rodeo rules and regulations, and developing youth and new contestant growth programs-and in order to protect the quality of all PRCA-sanctioned events-any rodeo committee and/or contracting party involved in producing a PRCA-sanctioned event agrees not to schedule, produce, promote or participate in a Competing Rodeo Event seventy-two hours before, during or seventy-two hours after a PRCA-sanctioned event. The PRCA shall have the right to approve specific events that are in conflict with this Bylaw should the PRCA deem any such event to be in the interest of its members and the promotion of professional rodeo sports in general.
B1.2.1.2 Prohibition on Conflicting Rodeo Association Interests.
In order to ensure that PRCA members-whose popularity and success are the result of participation in PRCA-sanctioned rodeos and related PRCA promotional efforts and activities (and the associated costly investments the PRCA has made in promoting PRCA events and rodeo sports in general)-are not pursuing interests in Conflicting Rodeo Associations while receiving the benefits of PRCA membership and are putting forth their best efforts on behalf of the PRCA, any person applying for PRCA membership who is an officer, board member, employee or has an ownership or financial interest of any form in a Conflicting Rodeo Association shall not be issued a membership, permit or renewal of membership with the PRCA.
I mean, really? It's almost like the tirade a soon-to-be-ex-husband would be making out on the front lawn as his gifted wife is leaving him for a better opportunity or place to live because she can't keep up living the way he wants her to anymore. "You can't leave me! I made you!"
Yes, these contestants have benefitted from the PRCA and the promotions/opportunities the PRCA has given them. On the other hand, the PRCA would be nothing without the talent being there to be used, marketed and relied upon that the contestants have made possible all these years. The PRCA knows it's going to be screwed without the ability to keep hyping these legends and benefiting from them in the same manner they always have. That's why the newer rodeo formats are scary to them and why they took the chance on making it an issue when they could.
You may see them as ungrateful and whiny but I see them as people who are fighting to control their lives and the career they built through their own power, sweat, tears, money and sacrifice when the PRCA could have cared less about them to the time when they did reach the top and beyond. We'll probably just have to agree to disagree on this one.
Edited by Red Raider 2016-02-11 6:00 PM
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 Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| Red Raider - 2016-02-11 5:57 PM MOTIVATED - 2016-02-11 4:20 PM
Okay, maybe not employer/employee......but whiny and ungrateful for sure. My mind wont change about that. And I dont think that is what the PRCA has said really, because they still have the opportunity to compete in jackpots and ammys and open rodeos. They just said "you can not sue us and still use our services you ungrateful, whiny cowboys"...
I don't mean to pick on you but have you looked at those by-laws in that context? They sure made it an issue when they wrote them in:
B15.1.1.2 Rodeo Committees.
In light of the PRCA’s long-standing and ongoing efforts to create popular and successful PRCA-sanctioned professional rodeo competitions and promote rodeo sports in general, including but not limited to creating the National Finals Rodeo event and qualifying points system, soliciting corporate sponsors and television contracts, establishing rodeo rules and regulations, and developing youth and new contestant growth programs-and in order to protect the quality of all PRCA-sanctioned events-any rodeo committee and/or contracting party involved in producing a PRCA-sanctioned event agrees not to schedule, produce, promote or participate in a Competing Rodeo Event seventy-two hours before, during or seventy-two hours after a PRCA-sanctioned event. The PRCA shall have the right to approve specific events that are in conflict with this Bylaw should the PRCA deem any such event to be in the interest of its members and the promotion of professional rodeo sports in general.
B1.2.1.2 Prohibition on Conflicting Rodeo Association Interests.
In order to ensure that PRCA members-whose popularity and success are the result of participation in PRCA-sanctioned rodeos and related PRCA promotional efforts and activities (and the associated costly investments the PRCA has made in promoting PRCA events and rodeo sports in general)-are not pursuing interests in Conflicting Rodeo Associations while receiving the benefits of PRCA membership and are putting forth their best efforts on behalf of the PRCA, any person applying for PRCA membership who is an officer, board member, employee or has an ownership or financial interest of any form in a Conflicting Rodeo Association shall not be issued a membership, permit or renewal of membership with the PRCA.
I mean, really? It's almost like the tirade a soon-to-be-ex-husband would be making out on the front lawn as his gifted wife is leaving him for a better opportunity or place to live because she can't keep up living the way he wants her to anymore. "You can't leave me! I made you!"
Yes, these contestants have benefitted from the PRCA and the promotions/opportunities the PRCA has given them. On the other hand, the PRCA would be nothing without the talent being there to be used, marketed and relied upon that the contestants have made possible all these years. The PRCA knows it's going to be screwed without the ability to keep hyping these legends and benefiting from them in the same manner they always have. That's why the newer rodeo formats are scary to them and why they took the chance on making it an issue when they could.
You may see them as ungrateful and whiny but I see them as people who are fighting to control their lives and the career they built through their own power, sweat, tears, money and sacrifice when the PRCA could have cared less about them to the time when they did reach the top and beyond. We'll probably just have to agree to disagree on this one.
 72 hours before or after a PCRA event ?? Why do they get to control them outside of a PRCA event ??? | |
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Own It and Move On
Location: The edge of no where | The PRCA is fining all Champions Challenge contestants that opt to participate in the American instead of the Champions Challenge in Scottsdale. They sent a whiny press release to the American concerning the date. Pretty sure most people KNOW when the American is going to be based on the previous year's date.
1. The Champion's Challenge was scheduled in Scottsdale the Sunday afternoon after the short round in San Antonio on Sat night. SA will pay like a slot machine and it's 17 solid hours to Scottsdale - that's just about impossible to make work unless you fly.
2. Who winds up being penalized by the PRCA attitude? The contestants. Do you really think any of them would pass on an opportunity to compete for $100,000 to $1,000,000? Instead of working with the American - the PRCA fines the contestants if they opt to play with someone else.
Edited by MS2011 2016-02-12 9:32 AM
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Own It and Move On
Location: The edge of no where | I think the ERA rodeos would be a great fit for a Sunday afternoon perf - the PRCA made it clear they have no intention of attempting to work with them when they wrote in this bylaw - "any rodeo committee and/or contracting party involved in producing a PRCA-sanctioned event agrees not to schedule, produce, promote or participate in a Competing Rodeo Event seventy-two hours before, during or seventy-two hours after a PRCA-sanctioned event."
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Veteran
Posts: 112
| Red Raider - 2016-02-11 3:19 PM
miss_n_cinch13 - 2016-02-10 9:25 AM Red Raider - 2016-02-08 9:07 AM TXBO - 2016-02-06 12:26 PM
I also think ERA has a real problem from the fact that they have solicited contestants and rodeos from PRCA. Many of the ERA tour events will compete with PRCA events and ERA is using intellectual property from PRCA for their qualifying. Think about the basis of the suit and you'll see this really isn't a problem. If you are claiming one entity is controlling it all, it's going to be natural to use their information, processes and other aspects in your own model. The existence of the American hurts them the most on this issue because they are showing it could be done another way without using PRCA standings or past stats. The fact that the ERA has to solicit contestants and rodeo schedule times from the PRCA only goes to show the overwhelming amount of reach and control PRCA has in this area and supports the monopoly theory. I have a question about the monopoly theory. Can they claim this when you factor in the number of Amateur/Non PRCA associations we have? Like the IPRA, ACRA, CRRA, UPRA, etc?
I guess I can understand that. So now another question. Why did the ERA not try to start out small and build up like the PBR seemed to do when they started out? | |
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 Googly Goo
Posts: 7053
| Red Raider - 2016-02-11 5:57 PM MOTIVATED - 2016-02-11 4:20 PM
Okay, maybe not employer/employee......but whiny and ungrateful for sure. My mind wont change about that. And I dont think that is what the PRCA has said really, because they still have the opportunity to compete in jackpots and ammys and open rodeos. They just said "you can not sue us and still use our services you ungrateful, whiny cowboys"...
I don't mean to pick on you but have you looked at those by-laws in that context? They sure made it an issue when they wrote them in:
B15.1.1.2 Rodeo Committees.
In light of the PRCA’s long-standing and ongoing efforts to create popular and successful PRCA-sanctioned professional rodeo competitions and promote rodeo sports in general, including but not limited to creating the National Finals Rodeo event and qualifying points system, soliciting corporate sponsors and television contracts, establishing rodeo rules and regulations, and developing youth and new contestant growth programs-and in order to protect the quality of all PRCA-sanctioned events-any rodeo committee and/or contracting party involved in producing a PRCA-sanctioned event agrees not to schedule, produce, promote or participate in a Competing Rodeo Event seventy-two hours before, during or seventy-two hours after a PRCA-sanctioned event. The PRCA shall have the right to approve specific events that are in conflict with this Bylaw should the PRCA deem any such event to be in the interest of its members and the promotion of professional rodeo sports in general.
B1.2.1.2 Prohibition on Conflicting Rodeo Association Interests.
In order to ensure that PRCA members-whose popularity and success are the result of participation in PRCA-sanctioned rodeos and related PRCA promotional efforts and activities (and the associated costly investments the PRCA has made in promoting PRCA events and rodeo sports in general)-are not pursuing interests in Conflicting Rodeo Associations while receiving the benefits of PRCA membership and are putting forth their best efforts on behalf of the PRCA, any person applying for PRCA membership who is an officer, board member, employee or has an ownership or financial interest of any form in a Conflicting Rodeo Association shall not be issued a membership, permit or renewal of membership with the PRCA.
I mean, really? It's almost like the tirade a soon-to-be-ex-husband would be making out on the front lawn as his gifted wife is leaving him for a better opportunity or place to live because she can't keep up living the way he wants her to anymore. "You can't leave me! I made you!"
Yes, these contestants have benefitted from the PRCA and the promotions/opportunities the PRCA has given them. On the other hand, the PRCA would be nothing without the talent being there to be used, marketed and relied upon that the contestants have made possible all these years. The PRCA knows it's going to be screwed without the ability to keep hyping these legends and benefiting from them in the same manner they always have. That's why the newer rodeo formats are scary to them and why they took the chance on making it an issue when they could.
You may see them as ungrateful and whiny but I see them as people who are fighting to control their lives and the career they built through their own power, sweat, tears, money and sacrifice when the PRCA could have cared less about them to the time when they did reach the top and beyond. We'll probably just have to agree to disagree on this one.
You make a good point here, Raider. The wording of those bylaws is absolutely terrible.
This case should read, "Dumb vs Dumber".
I think with proper leadership and councel, the PRCA case could be a much stronger. PRCA does not have a monopoly, the've simply done a better job for the contestants.
Edited by TXBO 2016-02-12 3:00 PM
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Veteran
Posts: 146
| I have a question about financial interest. When I enter let's say an amateur rodeo, I pay fees and hopefully win something. Isn't that a financial interest? Does that mean, if I were am member of the PRCA, that I cannot enter an amateur rodeo and be a member of the PRCA? | |
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 Mature beyond Years
Posts: 10780
Location: North of the 49th Parallel | BROKEN FEATHER - 2016-02-12 9:25 AM I have a question about financial interest. When I enter let's say an amateur rodeo, I pay fees and hopefully win something. Isn't that a financial interest? Does that mean, if I were am member of the PRCA, that I cannot enter an amateur rodeo and be a member of the PRCA?
Financial interest is share/stocks within the company. All of the contestants on the ERA roster were given shares of it. I'm not sure how much. | |
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Toastest with the Mostest
Posts: 5712
Location: That part of Texas | miss_n_cinch13 - 2016-02-12 10:49 AM Why did the ERA not try to start out small and build up like the PBR seemed to do when they started out?
Starting small wasn't going to make the PRCA be nice forever, if at all. When they couldn't keep the level of control that they wanted to with the ones who they made legendary, they were going to act to keep their investment in them active or at least make it where they wouldn't be able to compete with the newer ones coming up through the ranks and making money/publicity for the PRCA. | |
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Expert
Posts: 1525
| Red Raider - 2016-02-12 2:12 PM
miss_n_cinch13 - 2016-02-12 10:49 AM Why did the ERA not try to start out small and build up like the PBR seemed to do when they started out?
Starting small wasn't going to make the PRCA be nice forever, if at all. When they couldn't keep the level of control that they wanted to with the ones who they made legendary, they were going to act to keep their investment in them active or at least make it where they wouldn't be able to compete with the newer ones coming up through the ranks and making money/publicity for the PRCA.
Then why isn't the PRCA suing the PBR? There are some pretty legendary bull riders in the PBR. Why not sue the IPRA, UPRA or any of the other associations?
Edited by MOTIVATED 2016-02-12 2:21 PM
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Toastest with the Mostest
Posts: 5712
Location: That part of Texas | BROKEN FEATHER - 2016-02-12 11:25 AM I have a question about financial interest. When I enter let's say an amateur rodeo, I pay fees and hopefully win something. Isn't that a financial interest? Does that mean, if I were am member of the PRCA, that I cannot enter an amateur rodeo and be a member of the PRCA?
As TXBO pointed out and I have also pointed out, the way the by-laws are written are so shoddy and left open to interpretation that I'm sure those provisions will have to be defined by the court or through litigation. Financial interest is broad, especially with the way how they have defined it and it doesn't help that the determining party is the PRCA itself saying that they reserve the right to say which of these associations is going to violate these by-laws and be subject to their wrath. | |
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Toastest with the Mostest
Posts: 5712
Location: That part of Texas | MOTIVATED - 2016-02-12 2:14 PM Red Raider - 2016-02-12 2:12 PM miss_n_cinch13 - 2016-02-12 10:49 AM Why did the ERA not try to start out small and build up like the PBR seemed to do when they started out? Starting small wasn't going to make the PRCA be nice forever, if at all. When they couldn't keep the level of control that they wanted to with the ones who they made legendary, they were going to act to keep their investment in them active or at least make it where they wouldn't be able to compete with the newer ones coming up through the ranks and making money/publicity for the PRCA. Then why isn't the PRCA suing the PBR? There are some pretty legendary bull riders in the PBR. Why not sue the IPRA, UPRA any of the other associations?
ETA: They've also said in a later part of the by-laws that they basically reserve the right to make it an issue with whom they feel like -- hence why the IPRA and other associations with multiple events can breathe easy through the deal.
B15.1.1.1 Definition of Competing Rodeo Events.
Competing Rodeo Events are events not sanctioned by the PRCA in which contestants compete in two or more of the following events: bareback riding, saddle bronc riding, bull riding, tie-down roping, steer wrestling, and team roping.
Edited by Red Raider 2016-02-12 2:24 PM
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Expert
Posts: 1525
| Red Raider - 2016-02-12 2:19 PM
MOTIVATED - 2016-02-12 2:14 PM Red Raider - 2016-02-12 2:12 PM miss_n_cinch13 - 2016-02-12 10:49 AM Why did the ERA not try to start out small and build up like the PBR seemed to do when they started out? Starting small wasn't going to make the PRCA be nice forever, if at all. When they couldn't keep the level of control that they wanted to with the ones who they made legendary, they were going to act to keep their investment in them active or at least make it where they wouldn't be able to compete with the newer ones coming up through the ranks and making money/publicity for the PRCA. Then why isn't the PRCA suing the PBR? There are some pretty legendary bull riders in the PBR. Why not sue the IPRA, UPRA any of the other associations? . Competing Rodeo Events are events not sanctioned by the PRCA in which contestants compete in two or more of the following events: bareback riding, saddle bronc riding, bull riding, tie-down roping, steer wrestling, and team roping.
I see what you're saying. But WHY do you think the PRCA would "maliciously pick on" the ERA themselves. The PBR is HUGE they had just as much to gain by singling them out if they wanted to a long time ago. You REALLY dont think it has to do with the PRCA not wanting to allow to have the owners of a competing, rival, company, using the PRCA as a stepping stone to build their own company up?.........when the only reason anyone knows them in the first place is because of the accomplishments they have through the PRCA. | |
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Googly Goo
Posts: 7053
| Red Raider - 2016-02-12 2:15 PM BROKEN FEATHER - 2016-02-12 11:25 AM I have a question about financial interest. When I enter let's say an amateur rodeo, I pay fees and hopefully win something. Isn't that a financial interest? Does that mean, if I were am member of the PRCA, that I cannot enter an amateur rodeo and be a member of the PRCA? As TXBO pointed out and I have also pointed out, the way the by-laws are written are so shoddy and left open to interpretation that I'm sure those provisions will have to be defined by the court or through litigation. Financial interest is broad, especially with the way how they have defined it and it doesn't help that the determining party is the PRCA itself saying that they reserve the right to say which of these associations is going to violate these by-laws and be subject to their wrath.
Terrible governance and councel. (IMHO)
Edited by TXBO 2016-02-12 2:59 PM
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Toastest with the Mostest
Posts: 5712
Location: That part of Texas | MOTIVATED - 2016-02-12 2:28 PM I see what you're saying. But WHY do you think the PRCA would "maliciously pick on" the ERA themselves. The PBR is HUGE they had just as much to gain by singling them out if they wanted to a long time ago. You REALLY dont think it has to do with the PRCA not wanting to allow to have the owners of a competing, rival, company, using the PRCA as a stepping stone to build their own company up?.........when the only reason anyone knows them in the first place is because of the accomplishments they have through the PRCA.
The PRCA was under an anti-trust injunction (from previous litigation concerning these issues) when the PBR broke so they couldn't sue them at the time. Who knows if they would have but the fact remains that they couldn't because this isn't the first time the PRCA has been brought to heel over the monopoly/anti-trust issue.
Like I said, we'll probably have to agree to disagree on the topic of who has the right to own what when it concerns the PRCA and these contestants. It's a chicken vs. egg argument at this point on who made who. It took both groups to get the PRCA where it is today and vice versa. The questions remains who owns the future and what the contestants can do as individuals in a world so dominated by the PRCA.
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Googly Goo
Posts: 7053
| MOTIVATED - 2016-02-12 2:28 PM I see what you're saying. But WHY do you think the PRCA would "maliciously pick on" the ERA themselves. The PBR is HUGE they had just as much to gain by singling them out if they wanted to a long time ago. You REALLY dont think it has to do with the PRCA not wanting to allow to have the owners of a competing, rival, company, using the PRCA as a stepping stone to build their own company up?.........when the only reason anyone knows them in the first place is because of the accomplishments they have through the PRCA.
I think their intention was to protect themselves and their many years of work product. Not to be particularly malicious to any one group. The problem is that they were not proactive to these threats and reacted in haste. The result was poorly written bylaws. | |
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